S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

Isos wrote:Any system has strong and weak points. Azeri exploited them. They also operate Osa and igla 10 so it's not a surprise that they could destroy them effectively. They trained against their own systems.

Armenians bought everything they could with no strategy thinking they are better with nothing to backup that claim.

A smart opponent will always win against a well armed but stupid one. A bit like israeli won against arabs in 6 days.

GarryB wrote:If Turkey can walk through Russian Air Defence systems so easily then why do Israeli F-35s not fly freely over Syrian airspace?

Why does America refuse to allow Turkish F-35s fly in airspace with Turkish S-400s?

Why is Turkey buying more S-400s?

The situation in NK with Azerbaijani forces is comparable to Houtie forces in Saudi Arabian airspace... it can be amusing but it is not totally relevant in any other situation because these situations involve some very specific fuckups that are not relevant to other users.

GarryB wrote:If Turkey can walk through Russian Air Defence systems so easily then why do Israeli F-35s not fly freely over Syrian airspace?

Why does America refuse to allow Turkish F-35s fly in airspace with Turkish S-400s?

Why is Turkey buying more S-400s?

The situation in NK with Azerbaijani forces is comparable to Houtie forces in Saudi Arabian airspace... it can be amusing but it is not totally relevant in any other situation because these situations involve some very specific fuckups that are not relevant to other users.

If Turkey can walk through Russian Air Defence systems so easily then why do Israeli F-35s not fly freely over Syrian airspace?

Why does America refuse to allow Turkish F-35s fly in airspace with Turkish S-400s?

Why is Turkey buying more S-400s?

from wikipedia...
In August 2007, the government of India was negotiating to purchase eight to ten Harop systems.[3] In September 2009, the Indian Air Force announced that it will be inducting the Harop systems purchased for US$100 million "for up to 10 drones".[8

Vann7 wrote:

GarryB wrote:If Turkey can walk through Russian Air Defence systems so easily then why do Israeli F-35s not fly freely over Syrian airspace?

Why does America refuse to allow Turkish F-35s fly in airspace with Turkish S-400s?

Why is Turkey buying more S-400s?

The situation in NK with Azerbaijani forces is comparable to Houtie forces in Saudi Arabian airspace... it can be amusing but it is not totally relevant in any other situation because these situations involve some very specific fuckups that are not relevant to other users.

If Turkey can walk through Russian Air Defence systems so easily then why do Israeli F-35s not fly freely over Syrian airspace?

As I have said again and again, it is not Russian air defense that NATO or Israel fear - it is Russia's ability to counterstrike and NATO and Israeli air defense will be even less effective against those counterstrikes. No one is worried about Armenia or Syria's counterstrike ability. NATO and Israeli always gauge not Russia's ability but its willingness to use those weapons. Russia's motto should be "Right back at ya!"

easy.
Because there is no need for it , their long range missiles with camera are reaching their targets just fine , it will be like saying , if american military is so powerful , why they need long range weapons and sniper rifles. Stand off weapons ,give an extra advantage of significantly reduce any lucky hit
by the enemy ,by keeping their planes away of enemy air space ,while at same time bombing with precision any place they desire. The times of having to fly right above their targets to hit anything with precision are over , that was during the 90s and earlier. So stealth in combination with stand off weapons give them several more extra layers of security , that they better have than not.

Why does America refuse to allow Turkish F-35s fly in airspace with Turkish S-400s?

They even have explained why . because they are afraid Russia/Turkey could spy on F-35 electronics and electronic warfare and use that information to know how to hack their planes radars and sensors
also helps them spy them better their signals across the entire spectrum ,including thermal heat signature and develop better air defenses in future.

Why is Turkey buying more S-400s?

To defend against manned big planes at super long ranges ,and cruise missiles and ballistic too ,and
some attacks with drones , can be used against high altitude drones ,like global hawk drones ,or AWACS ,that short range defenses can't reach. but s-400s were never designed to target swarm of micro drones . sadly it wasn't for that.. neither s-300s. it will be like targeting swarm of thousands of birds with a sniper rifle. To bring down many small birds ,a shotgun ,something that produce bigger area damage is need.

The situation in armenia is no a lot different from syria ,when it comes to defense  , actually armenia
had better air defenses than syria all the time and in bigger numbers and still failed.  just yesterday
israel attacked AGAIN Syria ,for the 12323434435454x time  , they have said have bombed syria successful more than 2,000 times since they began their attacks..  and those s-300s were reported to be used by syrian government and guess what ? Israel airforce still managed to bomb syria and kill and wound syrian soldiers and leave unharmed and untouched .

So those modernized s-300s are not even that good against regular missiles , so russia have been
advertising castles in the air of defense that didn't exist. The true performance of Russian air defenses combined , when using s-300s ,pantirs and buks , seems to be 55% efficiency. so a little bit better than half of missile attacks intercepted.. which might sound good on paper , but it is terrible in practice if for example those israeli missile attacks was done with missiles armed with nukes ,or biological or chemical weapons it will have been a major disaster and Russia forced to flee from syria .


In summary , im not saying s-400s and all other russia rocket based air defenses are completely useless , only that they are already showing that are becoming close to obsolete as main weapons of air defenses.. and the armenian war is a wake up call for the russian military of how outdated are their tactics of defenses.. it was painful to watch those s-300s , their radars , tors and pantsir to be
hit again and again and again and fully recorded in video to add more insult. showing not even russia
electronic warfare was working ,allowing communications to happen between drones and their operators in azerbaijan and turkey. Russia military was caught with pants down and it was not until
2019 military exercises , that russia military  began to include swarm of drones attacks , so this is what? 10 years delayed trainning? they should have been testing this kind of war tactics 15 years ago and not now.   Israel have loitering munition like IAI Harop since 2007 at least in service .

from wikipedia...
In August 2007, the government of India was negotiating to purchase eight to ten Harop systems.[3] In September 2009, the Indian Air Force announced that it will be inducting the Harop systems purchased for US$100 million "for up to 10 drones".[8

Whats what's wrong with the Ruskies? why they did not trained against this kind of warfare attacks?
is like the entire military is run by morons , generals no different than their president . If i was the one in charge of military , i will not be showing out enemies in youtube videos ,how our military train ,to teach them our tactics. and our limitations , ie.. how we don't train. all this dueling non sense of artillery vs artillery will only happen against alqaeda and isis , that is not a true army but mercenaries. But against NATO ,Russia got a small  little taste of how badly ill prepared they are
to fight versus NATO and Israel . If it wasn't by those nuclear weapon inventory Russia have ,i have no doubts russia military will have been over run in armenia and syria long time ago. and Cuba and venezuela fully invaded and russia had to look to the other side.

So if i was putin ,i will have fired all the generals in charge of defending Armenia and the russian
military in armenia , and resign himself too for incompetent and leave that position of president.
Because the modernization of the russian military have a major black hole , a major weakness
in their defense of airspace and this was a third world nation who did it ..armed with nato and israel weapons.

S-400s and s-300s and pantsirs and torns as it is now are completely useless versus a modern war versus Israel and NATO , if they use heavy use of drones to overwhelm Russia air defenses.. and heavy use of glide gravity weapons too ,that all russian defenses shows problem in intercepting .
Everywhere on the internet there are news of Turkey preparing a new war , idlib 2.0 , using the same drones combined with loitering munition tactics from israel. And don't be surprised if russia performance is terrible again.. just don't blame the syrian army ,for failing ,as you did to Armenia ,
giving a free pass to Russian military failure in protecting their allies.

S-400s and s-300s could remain revelant only if russia manage to deploy modern anti air artillery
like rail guns ,lasers and other energy weapons , but also 57mm artillery in big numbers deployed.
to target mass waves of drones attacks ,you need area destruction explosive ,exploding in the air or energy guns with non limited rounds.

Vann7 wrote:

easy.
Because there is no need for it , their long range missiles with camera are reaching their targets just fine , it will be like saying , if american military is so powerful , why they need long range weapons and sniper rifles. Stand off weapons ,give an extra advantage of significantly reduce any lucky hit
by the enemy ,by keeping their planes away of enemy air space ,while at same time bombing with precision any place they desire. The times of having to fly right above their targets to hit anything with precision are over , that was during the 90s and earlier. So stealth in combination with stand off weapons give them several more extra layers of security , that they better have than not.

Vann7 wrote:easy.
Because there is no need for it , their long range missiles with camera are reaching their targets just fine , it will be like saying , if american military is so powerful , why they need long range weapons and sniper rifles. Stand off weapons ,give an extra advantage of significantly reduce any lucky hit
by the enemy ,by keeping their planes away of enemy air space ,while at same time bombing with precision any place they desire. The times of having to fly right above their targets to hit anything with precision are over , that was during the 90s and earlier. So stealth in combination with stand off weapons give them several more extra layers of security , that they better have than not.

carlripson wrote:They even have explained why . because they are afraid Russia/Turkey could spy on F-35 electronics and electronic warfare and use that information to know how to hack their planes radars and sensors
also helps them spy them better their signals across the entire spectrum ,including thermal heat signature and develop better air defenses in future.

carlipson wrote:actually armenia
had better air defenses than syria all the time and in bigger numbers and still failed.  just yesterday
israel attacked AGAIN Syria ,for the 12323434435454x time  , they have said have bombed syria successful more than 2,000 times since they began their attacks..  and those s-300s were reported to be used by syrian government and guess what ? Israel airforce still managed to bomb syria and kill and wound syrian soldiers and leave unharmed and untouched . No

GarryB wrote: But the F-35 is invisible and invincible and should be able to save money by flying one at a time over Syria without needing any support aircraft dropping cheap bombs to destroy targets accurately... those Russian radars wont even know they are there... except we have already heard they can detect F-35s from thousands of kms away...

LMFS wrote:As to the stealth planes operating close to the Russian territory using their sensors to guide the other planes... is that a joke?? they will be picked up by OTH before they take off!

GarryB wrote:Except that airspace is not safer with Russian fighters using R-37M missiles and its new longer ranged replacement... America is copying Russia...

magnumcromagnon wrote:
It completely nullifies their stealth fetishism when their uber wunderwaffle stealth fighters are blaring their radars because any proper ELINT/SIGINT platform will easily make a mockery of them just like Autobaza-M made a mockery of the RQ-170 lol!

GarryB wrote: Actually a ramjet is always more efficient than a solid fuelled rocket and a ramjet powered missile can also climb to maximise range... it can also manage thrust to optimise fuel use to extend range and allow energy boosts when needed, whereas a rocket is more fixed and rigid when it comes to energy and coasting.