S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

victor1985 wrote:

As far as I know we have now 7 confirmed Regiments (with 14 Batt) and 2 probable (with 5 Batt):
so at best 9 Regiments with 19 Battalions
[\quote]
So let me know : what is in a battalion? A single truck of s400 whit own radar? And a single truck how many missiles have? I understanded that 8(2 for every tube). That would mean ~ 150 missiles in total.

Each S-400 battalion has +8 TELs, whereby each TEL is equipped with 4 tubes; where each tube houses either a 40N6, a 48N6, or the tube is in fact a 3-pack container of 9M96s.
Thus, a battallion can be expected to have at least 32 missiles ready to fire, and is more likely to have at least 40 missiles ready to fire.
Typically, a target will be engaged by 2 missiles of the appropriate range/type.

Acquistion radars, fire control radars, etc... are all the responsibilites of various radar vehicles; also included in the batallion.

That comes about 608 missiles ready to fire (if all 19 battalions are right now in their position and ready to fire). Well this can cover all f22. But is still not enough. This cant cover even half of usas ICBMs. Not mention that are also a lot of others aircrafts in usas inventory. And ofcourse usas own anti s400 missiles. Ofcourse russia has a lot of others sistems along whit the s400 but till now i can suspect that are 0,9 missiles ( from all sistems) per usas weapons (weapons meaning anything). But....if we add russia ICBMs there is an equilibrum. Bad news are that s300 and s200 are old. And rate of replacing is not quite so fast. But....also usas weapons are some old.... There we go we have an equilibrum.

How Does S400 detect Decoys ?

ricky123 wrote:How Does S400 detect Decoys ?

Signature analysis. combining data from its sensors, compare it with available target model, make decision then attack.

Thanks Rambo54.
I gave you my vote.

victor1985 wrote:That is bad news. usa has ~200 f22 and others hundreds of fighters. Would mean a 0,70 missiles per aircraft. Not including usas ICBMs , cruise missiles and others. For a proper chances in case of war are needed at least 3 missiles per enemy whatever (missile ,aircraft). That ofcourse if you want to be focus only on this type of AAs

Why do you expect that F-22 would "attack" ground targets? Who would use his Rollce Royce to tow an agriculture trailer? You can do it...but why?
The ~ 180 Planes are the ultimate element to achieve air superiority. I think they would use hundreds of Tomahawks backed by B-1 (regarding range) or new stealth drones (like RQ-180) in the future. I wouldn't risk a single F-22 to approach S-400.
Cheers

flamming_python wrote:

victor1985 wrote:

As far as I know we have now 7 confirmed Regiments (with 14 Batt) and 2 probable (with 5 Batt):
so at best 9 Regiments with 19 Battalions
[\quote]
So let me know : what is in a battalion? A single truck of s400 whit own radar? And a single truck how many missiles have? I understanded that 8(2 for every tube). That would mean ~ 150 missiles in total.

Each S-400 battalion has +8 TELs, whereby each TEL is equipped with 4 tubes; where each tube houses either a 40N6, a 48N6, or the tube is in fact a 3-pack container of 9M96s.
Thus, a battallion can be expected to have at least 32 missiles ready to fire, and is more likely to have at least 40 missiles ready to fire.
Typically, a target will be engaged by 2 missiles of the appropriate range/type.

Acquistion radars, fire control radars, etc... are all the responsibilites of various radar vehicles; also included in the batallion.

Can we expect that 40N6 will fit into the same launch tube than 48N6?

rambo54 wrote:

victor1985 wrote:That is bad news. usa has ~200 f22 and others hundreds of fighters. Would mean a 0,70 missiles per aircraft. Not including usas ICBMs , cruise missiles and others. For a proper chances in case of war are needed at least 3 missiles per enemy whatever (missile ,aircraft). That ofcourse if you want to be focus only on this type of AAs

Why do you expect that F-22 would "attack" ground targets? Who would use his Rollce Royce to tow an agriculture trailer? You can do it...but why?
The ~ 180 Planes are the ultimate element to achieve air superiority. I think they would use hundreds of Tomahawks backed by B-1 (regarding range) or new stealth drones (like RQ-180) in the future. I wouldn't risk a single F-22 to approach S-400.
Cheers

My bad. F22 being stealth make more appropiate to bomb well defended by radars targets. Or at least that was what i tinked about. Now for a exact knowing how a war would be between usa and russia can you approximate number of each general category of weapons of usa and russia? And can you imagine how war would begin and continue? That in simple terms like: they bring x we bring then y then they z etc etc.

victor1985 wrote:

rambo54 wrote:

victor1985 wrote:That is bad news. usa has ~200 f22 and others hundreds of fighters. Would mean a 0,70 missiles per aircraft. Not including usas ICBMs , cruise missiles and others. For a proper chances in case of war are needed at least 3 missiles per enemy whatever (missile ,aircraft). That ofcourse if you want to be focus only on this type of AAs

Why do you expect that F-22 would "attack" ground targets? Who would use his Rollce Royce to tow an agriculture trailer? You can do it...but why?
The ~ 180 Planes are the ultimate element to achieve air superiority. I think they would use hundreds of Tomahawks backed by B-1 (regarding range) or new stealth drones (like RQ-180) in the future. I wouldn't risk a single F-22 to approach S-400.
Cheers

My bad. F22 being stealth make more appropiate to bomb well defended by radars targets. Or at least that was what i tinked about. Now for a exact knowing how a war would be between usa and russia can you approximate number of each general category of weapons of usa and russia? And can you imagine how war would begin and continue? That in simple terms like: they bring x we bring then y then they z etc etc.

I hope that at least the responsible one continue to imagine what a war between Russia and US would mean! Simply the end of 10.000 years of human struggle to leave the woods.... It seems there are more and more guys which like to ignore that....
The scenario to attack S-400 in Russia seems (have to be) unreal. The question is what will happened if one day these weapons reach out to Iran or Syria or North Korea. Then it could be to see a temporarily clash against F-16 / F-35 or air launched missiles...
I wouldn't like to sit in any cockpit attacking those sites...I would prefer to sit in a cockpit of an A-320 and start to descent with a last glas of champaign and a nice stewardess on my knees ;-)

I'm just a "private" but I would recommend not to debate politics but S-400/500 issues...otherwise this would be an endless listing of opinions and creates misunderstanding and hate.
We all love this forum because we got valuable information about topics of our hobby and passion. And we need the input of the many.

So another try: back to the topic:

I'm not able to understand and read russian language but as far as I know this article
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20141223/1039766883.html
say something about S-400 deployment at Novosibirsk. Could we expect this deployment this year? Or are we static with 9 RGT up to 2016?
If they will deploy S-400 to Novosibirsk then it will be the 590 RGT still equipped with S-300PT, over here 55.072799° 83.278202° and here 54.863642° 82.826052°. Big Bird site is here 55.095878° 82.858290°.

Cheers

P.S.: no one in the know whether 40N6 dimensions are like 48N6 or more like 9M82???

rambo54 wrote:I'm just a "private" but I would recommend not to debate politics but S-400/500 issues...otherwise this would be an endless listing of opinions and creates misunderstanding and hate.
We all love this forum because we got valuable information about topics of our hobby and passion. And we need the input of the many.

So another try: back to the topic:

I'm not able to understand and read russian language but as far as I know this article
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20141223/1039766883.html
say something about S-400 deployment at Novosibirsk. Could we expect this deployment this year? Or are we static with 9 RGT up to 2016?
If they will deploy S-400 to Novosibirsk then it will be the 590 RGT still equipped with S-300PT, over here 55.072799°  83.278202° and here 54.863642° 82.826052°. Big Bird site is here  55.095878° 82.858290°.

Cheers

P.S.: no one in the know whether 40N6 dimensions are like 48N6 or more like 9M82???

I think Garry can move this last talks to Russian economy thread.

yet another announcment:
http://tass.ru/en/russia/769960
this time for Novaya Zemlya ....together with Novosibirsk this would be RGT No 10 & 11..well let's see
https://defencerussia.wordpress.com/2014/12/23/novosibirsk-air-defense-division-to-get-s-400-in-summer-2015/

Well a sistem like s400 when improved could not be improved just by adding a missile whit large range. Lets say you have range but not have range at aquisition radar.....is not just the missile that matters.

victor1985 wrote:Well a sistem like s400 when improved could not be improved just by adding a missile whit large range. Lets say you have range but not have range at aquisition radar.....is not just the missile that matters.

It matters even without the radar as the missile potential for hunt will be in that case much greater.

Viktor wrote:

victor1985 wrote:Well a sistem like s400 when improved could not be improved just by adding a missile whit large range. Lets say you have range but not have range at aquisition radar.....is not just the missile that matters.

It matters even without the radar as the missile potential for hunt will be in that case much greater.

What do you mean? You mean the missile capacity to use own radar? Well yes but would have a much smaller capacity than a land bases radar. Ofcourse if you want some calculations the lets think thay a mig fighter has a radar for 300 km at a area of 10 cube meters. In a s300 missile which has a 50 cube meters sure fit a radar whit a range of 400 km. Would be a idea to have an exchange between aircrafts APS and missile power sources.

victor1985 wrote:

Viktor wrote:

victor1985 wrote:Well a sistem like s400 when improved could not be improved just by adding a missile whit large range. Lets say you have range but not have range at aquisition radar.....is not just the missile that matters.

It matters even without the radar as the missile potential for hunt will be in that case much greater.

What do you mean? You mean the missile capacity to use own radar? Well yes but would have a much smaller capacity than a land bases radar. Ofcourse if you want some calculations the lets think thay a mig fighter has a radar for 300 km at a area of 10 cube meters. In a s300 missile which has a 50 cube meters sure fit a radar whit a range of 400 km. Would be a idea to have an exchange between aircrafts APS and missile power sources.

Nope. In general approx. 1/3rd of the missile flight range is carried out without the use of its engine because you have no fuel in the missile left. That range too is supported by

guidance radar but in comparison with the situation where a missile has 100% of the guidance radar range covered by its enginee you will achieve superior kill probability.

http://dimmi-tomsk.livejournal.com/283810.html

Some interesting MZKT trucks....

40N6 being tested within regular S-400 units in Astrahan region -      


Russian Defense Ministry has tested a new missile for S-400

The distance at which checks the operation of the rocket was a little less than 400 kilometers.

and the add on ... we now know that the 40N6 is maneruveable missile

Russian Armed Forces Carry Out Field-Testing of Maneuverable S-400 Missile

The Russian military has carried out successful field testing of a new rocket with maneuverability capability for the S-400 surface-to-air air defense system, Aerospace Defense Forces told Russian Radio on Saturday.

"Testing is still underway at present. Three days ago we successfully carried out testing of a maneuverable surface-to-air missile which successfully hit its target," Deputy Commander of Aerospace Defense Forces Major General Kirill Makarov told

and again:

Makarov clarified that the rocket was tested at a distance of slightly less than 400 kilometers

Finally. Let's hope it goes into service soon, because I have heard of it in "testing" almost as much as the Su-25UBM is "completing trials" lol.

TR1 wrote:Finally. Let's hope it goes into service soon, because I have heard of it in "testing" almost as much as the Su-25UBM is "completing trials" lol.

Yes we have been waiting for it for a long time as same as for the Armata and PAK-FA and 22350 and whoole lots of other things and Im still waiting for a lots of other stuff

but it makes me happy because one by one at an ever increasing pace new stuff is being revealed to us and introduced into a service


and the clear that it could not be more clearer    

Defense Ministry tested a rocket to the far C-400

Now a destructive force C-400 is 250 kilometers, and then will be increased to 400 kilometers

sepheronx wrote:Found it odd that the S-300V4 had a working 400km missile before S-400 when I heard about the one for S-400 long before.  But this is good news.

It is because 40N6 is a whole new missile unlike 9M82 which always had potential for a 400km range but the command to upgrade it came relatively late in comparison with the S-300P

versions who had received upgrades right from the 90ies.

It does not get any clearer than this. S-500 is meant against ICBM as well as aerodynamic targets - at the same time


LINK

Major General Kirill Makarov:

"S-500 is currently in development, we know that it is not far off when it will be put into service and will go to equip the troops. This is a new word in the development of defense systems, because before that the missile defense system developed separately, and air defense systems - separately. Here, this system is developed jointly and in a single loop command and control will be possible control of both ballistic targets (intercontinental ballistic missiles) and aerodynamic targets, "- said K.Makarov in the program," the General Staff "on the radio RSN.

Does that mean that A-235 is meaningless?

rambo54 wrote:Does that mean that A-235 is meaningless?

No, A-235 with Don-2N is still an important segment of space defense, but S-500 will work together to cover other areas.

Here are two important news to begin with ...


Russian army to get long-range missiles for S-400 air defense systems in 2015

The state trials of the new standard long-range missile for S-400 systems are planned to be completed no later than May-June, after which it will be put into service, a source says

New missiles for S-400 Triumf air defense systems capable of destroying medium-range ballistic missiles in the near-earth space will become operational in the Russian Armed Forces this year

"Its main distinction from the missiles currently used by our S-300 and S-400 systems is that it has a ‘clever warhead’ and improved combat characteristics, which enable it to hit medium-range ballistic missiles in the near-earth space," the source said.

and now the GRAND FINALE .....

The new missile will have a maximum range of 400 km (248.5 miles) similar to the range of the missile recently put into service for S-300V4 ground force air defense systems but "its components base and some other characteristics are better," the source said. "All these factors enable the missile to operate against ballistic missiles at outer space altitudes."

The source gave no exact altitude for the new missile to hit the targets but said "it considerably exceeds the altitude of S-300 missiles, which are currently becoming operational with S-400 systems

as a logical continuation of the story ....

Russia to triple production of missiles for air and missile defense in 2015 — source

The defense-industrial complex has been ordered to step up the production of missiles manufactured for air defense and missile defense complexes by 200%, a source at the Defense Ministry has told TASS

MOSCOW, April 9. /TASS/. Russia’s defense-industrial complex will triple the production of missiles for air defense and missile defense complexes this year in contrast to 2014 parameters, a reliable source at the Defense Ministry has told TASS.
"The defense-industrial complex has been ordered to step up the production of missiles manufactured for air defense and missile defense complexes by 200%, which is to considerably increase the capabilities of the newly-created arm of the Russian armed forces — the Air and Space Force," the source said, adding that the production of missiles would grow by thousands.

"Alongside this the task was set to increase production rates and at the same time reduce the deployment deadlines for new systems and complexes of the air and anti-missile defense in various regions of the country, including Crimea and the Arctic," the source said.