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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

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    ATLASCUB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  ATLASCUB on Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:51 am

    Austin wrote:C-500 "Prometheus" and "Antey-4000" will be shown for the first time to the general public

    https://iz.ru/634425/dmitrii-litovkin-nikolai-surkov-aleksei-ramm/voennye-pokazhut-vozdushno-kosmicheskii-shchit

    The newest anti-aircraft missile systems (SAMs) S-500 Prometheus and Antei-4000 will be presented for the first time to foreign military specialists at the exhibition-forum Army-2017, which opens tomorrow. In addition to them will be shown and anti-aircraft missile system "Buk-M3" with updated weapons. Experts believe that the novelties, which have become the basis of the unified national system of air and space defense of Russia, will cause great interest among foreign buyers.

    The Defense Ministry told Izvestia that the advanced anti-aircraft missile systems would be demonstrated in the closed part of the exposition of the Army-2017 forum. The S-500 Prometey and Antei-4000 are positioned as the main elements of the unified national air and space defense system being created in Russia. However, there is practically no official information about their real possibilities. It is known that the S-500 is capable of intercepting a wide range of aerospace purposes. Including American hypersonic aircraft, which for the characteristic trajectory of flight received the nickname "runners".

    Earlier, Alexander Vedrov, Deputy Director General for Production and Technological Policy of Almaz-Antey Concern OJSC, noted only that this weapon represents a new generation of SAMs, in which it is intended to apply the principle of separate solution of the tasks of destroying ballistic and aerodynamic targets. Their supplies to the Russian military are scheduled for 2019. At the same time, an export passport of products can be prepared, without which it is impossible to sell them to foreign customers.

    "The secrecy with respect to the S-500" Prometheus "is explained by the ambitiousness of the tasks facing it," Professor of the Academy of Military Sciences Vadim Kozyulin told Izvestia. - They must be able to shoot conventional and hypersonic cruise missiles, aircraft and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). Do this both at the very surface of the Earth, and in the near space. And this already implies the destruction of low-orbit satellites and space weapons, launched from hypersonic aircraft, shock hypersonic UAVs and orbital platforms.

    The appearance of Prometheus has not yet been officially presented. Although it was accidentally discovered by the Almaz-Antey concern itself. The figure of a six-axis machine with two launch tubes was included in the company's annual calendar. A little more is known about Antey-4000. This system represents an export version of the newest S-300V4 anti-aircraft missile system. In the Russian army, this ZRS comes in 2014.

    Unlike its predecessor, the S-300V complex, the element base has been completely updated in the new machine. New super-powerful computers, new domestic software are installed. The radars of the complex became more sensitive and noise-proof. For the new system, unique long-range missiles were created. They must confidently hit targets at ranges of up to 400 km. The system also provides for less powerful missiles to combat small-sized targets within a radius of 150 km. In general, the combat effectiveness of the S-300V4 increased by 2.3 times compared with previous generations of S-300s.

    Andrei Frolov, editor-in-chief of the magazine Export of Arms, suggested in a conversation with Izvestia that the new SAMs will be demonstrated primarily to potential foreign buyers.

    - The growth of demand for air defense and missile defense systems is facilitated by the situation around the DPRK. If Pyongyang makes a new rocket, then it will quickly go to export and can be in Iran and Pakistan, "the expert said. - In addition, the experience of the war in Yemen showed that the systems existing in Saudi Arabia do not always intercept even obsolete Soviet-made missiles.

    According to Andrei Frolov, the list of possible customers is quite large. Interest in the newest SAMs can be shown by China, India, Vietnam, Algeria, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, and also some monarchies of the Persian Gulf - Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar.

    "The first buyers can be Indians," the expert suggested. - Memorandum on the supply of air defense systems was signed with Delhi last fall. Negotiations on supplies and prices are currently under way.

    In April of this year, the presence in Syria of Russian S-300 and S-400 systems actually prevented a massive air campaign against government forces. At the same time, the authoritative US military publication Defense One wrote with reference to experts and representatives of the Pentagon that modern Russian air defense systems "cover" airspace over the coastal areas of the SAR for practically all air attack means.

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    So we won't see the promo slides...meh...

    Arrow

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Arrow on Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:08 am

    would be demonstrated in the closed part of the exposition of the Army-2017 forum. wrote:


    Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Tolstoy

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Tolstoy on Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:04 am

    GarryB wrote:As mentioned above a nuclear warhead is very complex so that it does not explode by accident when not wanted but does explode when needed.

    China has placed S-400 batteries in its border with North Korea & US has stationed THAAD in South Korea close to North Korean border.

    Can the S-400 or THAAD intercept a North Korean Ballistic missile (either ICBM or IRBM) just a few seconds after its launch? IOW intercepting the missile within North Korean airspace before the missile can leave the atmosphere?
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:47 pm

    It says they will be demonstrated (ie fired) in a closed session, but it did not say the vehicles wont be shown to the public...

    Can the S-400 or THAAD intercept a North Korean Ballistic missile (either ICBM or IRBM) just a few seconds after its launch? IOW intercepting the missile within North Korean airspace before the missile can leave the atmosphere?

    Not likely.

    Such SAMs are located near targets, not near launch positions as there would not be enough time to launch except if there was plenty of warning time... which I doubt there would be.

    Firing ballistic missiles in North Korea against targets in Russia would be a fairly short range missile strike so the missile would not climb very high at all...
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    Tolstoy

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Tolstoy on Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:40 pm

    GarryB wrote:Not likely.

    Such SAMs are located near targets, not near launch positions as there would not be enough time to launch except if there was plenty of warning time... which I doubt there would be.

    Firing ballistic missiles in North Korea against targets in Russia would be a fairly short range missile strike so the missile would not climb very high at all...

    Also in the vacuum of space how do interceptor missiles like 40N6, 9M96 etc manage to travel at extremely high speed in order to hit an incoming warhead ?
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:23 am

    High speed in a vacuum is easy... the problem is manouvering in a vacuum, because physical control surfaces like fins have no effect as there is no slipstream for them to work in.

    Interception does not require speed even though speed is useful to an interceptor.

    A batsman playing cricket is standing in front of the target so he does not need to move nearly as much as the bowler does the ball.

    By positioning himself in front of the target he may have to move his bat a little to stop the ball hitting the wicket... the problem is how much is the ball moving in flight and how well does the batter position the bat in front of the path of the ball.
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    Tolstoy

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Tolstoy on Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:43 am

    GarryB wrote:High speed in a vacuum is easy... the problem is manouvering in a vacuum, because physical control surfaces like fins have no effect as there is no slipstream for them to work in.

    Interception does not require speed even though speed is useful to an interceptor.

    Rocket engines work by action and reaction and push rockets forward simply by expelling their exhaust in the opposite direction at high speed, and can therefore work in the vacuum of space. But do these intercept missiles also have an engine like a rocket ?

    T-47

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  T-47 on Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:51 pm

    GarryB wrote:A batsman playing cricket is standing in front of the target so he does not need to move nearly as much as the bowler does the ball.

    By positioning himself in front of the target he may have to move his bat a little to stop the ball hitting the wicket... the problem is how much is the ball moving in flight and how well does the batter position the bat in front of the path of the ball.

    How many people will understand the cricket example Garry? Razz
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:14 am

    But do these intercept missiles also have an engine like a rocket ?

    To more precisely answer your original question they are already moving at very high speed when they enter empty space.

    How many people will understand the cricket example Garry?

    You don't have to understand cricket to understand a person trying to get a ball past a bat to hit a stick in the ground and a person with a bat trying to stop that ball from hitting that stick using his stick only to do so.

    Arrow

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Arrow on Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:33 am

    So where is S-500 on Army 2017 ? Laughing

    eridan

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  eridan on Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:20 pm

    Does anyone know of a document that mentions any sort of air to ground mode for the S300 missile family? I am especially interested in naval, F (or FM) variant. Since US SM2/6 missiles are usually talked about as having a secondary mode that has them used in an antishipping missions, is there anything of sort that was ever mentioned for S300F?


    ATLASCUB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  ATLASCUB on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:01 am

    Arrow wrote:So where is S-500 on Army 2017 ? Laughing

    Private show... not for us plebs.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:14 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:
    Arrow wrote:So where is S-500 on Army 2017 ? Laughing

    Private show... not for us plebs.

    this piece of shit retard for whatever reason, since the mods are incompetent to deal with these trolls, even acknowledged in last page that it is for closed viewing.  Which closed viewing has existed for years at these events (Buk-M3 was one of them in the recent past).  But of course, trolling is what he does.  He should actually be gone from these forums, but you know how shit this forums have become.

    What these retarded people like Arrow reminds me of, are the same dumbasses who thought PAK FA never existed. For years they said it didn't exist, till one day, it flew. I know those idiots were red in the face. Now they (Arrow) moved onto S-500. Yeah, of course one of the most powerful and wealthy defense companies cannot make it. Russians are incompetent. They don't know how to make one. Blah blah blah.

    Fuck Arrow.
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    Isos

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  Isos on Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:59 am

    eridan wrote:Does anyone know of a document that mentions any sort of air to ground mode for the S300 missile family? I am especially interested in naval, F (or FM) variant. Since US SM2/6 missiles are usually talked about as having a secondary mode that has them used in an antishipping missions, is there anything of sort that was ever mentioned for S300F?


    It would probably be something like Radar operator saying to the missiles fly this altitude and in this direction so that the missile goes onto the ship. I don't think it could track a ship with the same radars as for air target. If I'm not wrong air defence systems have difficulties to follow low speed air targets so a ship moving at 20 km/h will not be seen by the system.

    For ground Attack it obviously can't as it doesn't have the needed electronics. However S-200 had nuk wareheads and could be used against an invasion force.

    eridan

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  eridan on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:10 am

    Isos wrote:
    It would probably be something like Radar operator saying to the missiles fly this altitude and in this direction so that the missile goes onto the ship. I don't think it could track a ship with the same radars as for air target. If I'm not wrong air defence systems have difficulties to follow low speed air targets so a ship moving at 20 km/h will not be seen by the system.

    For ground Attack it obviously can't as it doesn't have the needed electronics. However S-200 had nuk wareheads and could be used against an invasion force.

    We can all guess here, but is there any document, any source mentioning this possibility?

    I mean, I guess in theory there shouldn't be a problem, with missile just given the command to go to this and this coordinate and then hope the proximity fuze will do the rest. I don't think radar would have much difficulty as it might be similar to engaging a large, hovering helicopter. There should be enough rotating stuff on the enemy ship to get some sort of return, just like with rotor on a helicopter. Especially since it's a ship in the ocean, it basically sticks out like a sore thumb.

    But does S300 even have an option to be independently commanded to go to predetermined coordinate? Or is it only a part of an automated engagement process, where computer gives out the coordinates as it sees fit, so they match the target location as seen as engagement radar?

    Also, shouldn't SARH guidance basically enable S300 missile to fly wherever the illumination from the radar hits? Since TVM guidance is basically a form of SARH, it should still work, no?
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    GarryB

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    Re: S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:33 pm

    this piece of shit retard for whatever reason, since the mods are incompetent to deal with these trolls, even acknowledged in last page that it is for closed viewing.

    Mike needs to calm down.

    I am not going to ban someone for being a dick... do you really want a forum of yes men Putin worshippers that have their rose coloured sunglasses on all the time and no criticism is acceptable.

    Sounds pretty damn boring to me.

    The S-500 is a mobile ABM system with a 600km range able to engage a range of targets from near sea level up out into space including cruise missiles and satellites in low earth orbit.

    It is a fantastic system that would never have been possible if the Americans had not been so stupid as to tear up the ABM treaty.

    Now Russia will have a system that can be used to create genuine safe zones anywhere they want in the worlds most comprehensive layered integrated air defence network...

    Of course he is upset.

    And Rif and Rif-M both have secondary anti surface roles for which there were reportedly nuclear warheads.

    Even BUK has a secondary surface to surface role.

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