Poliment-Redut Naval Air Defense System

GarryB wrote:In the Oscar the Granit tubes are side by side, but three Onyx missiles fit inside the Granit tubes.

Ok thanks. That is strange because the Granit is not that much bigger in terms of diameter compared to the Onyx (0.85 vs. 0.7 m)

The cell size is fixed and as you can see in the picture above the use of 9M96 missiles does not fill the cell efficiently. Having a quad liner for the cell so four missiles could be loaded makes sense but if the missiles are shorter as well as narrower then why not have layers too?

Yes that is the idea.

One tube could carry one S-400 full sized missile with a range of 400km, or it could carry a normal S-400 with a 250km range, or it could carry two layers of missiles with four missiles packed into each layer for 8 x 9M96 missiles per tube, or three layers of 5 missiles with the 9M100 missiles with a total of 15 missiles per tube.
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It would make bigger ships very formidably armed...

I referred to smaller ships because they already have no huge amount of the big CMs /ASMs and therefore further reduction by using up some cells for SAM would maybe not be as interesting as spreading the SAM cells in swallower areas of the ship. In bigger ships you would be better off by stacking and putting short/mid range SAMs side by side in deeper cells, it may help using up the hull better.

I don't see the point in unification of the UKSK cruise missile launchers and the Redut SAM launchers... the difference between the small SAMs and the big SAMs is big enough already without adding enormous cruise missiles to the problem.

S-400 tubes and VLS are not really different in size. Some missions may need more offensive firepower, other more SAMs. Flexibility is always good, as well as unification. Don't have a strong opinion on feasibility though.

You could have small shallow 9M100 launchers all over the place as they are short range lock on after launch IIR guided missiles that would always be useful... even embedded in the sides of ships facing outwards...

Agree to some point, but complex technical setups are cheaper and easier to maintain if concentrated in one or few areas. Our technology is not that sophisticated yet to have missiles on a ship as if they were leafs growing by themselves on a tree if you know what I mean

hoom wrote:UKSK-M is supposed to be properly universal.

Could make sense as said above. Even when smaller VLS cells will still be needed.

Ok thanks. That is strange because the Granit is not that much bigger in terms of diameter compared to the Onyx (0.85 vs. 0.7 m)

The information released stated the Granit launch tubes were to be kept and fitted with launch tube liners and the payload was going from 24 Granits to 72 Onyx missiles...

Agree to some point, but complex technical setups are cheaper and easier to maintain if concentrated in one or few areas. Our technology is not that sophisticated yet to have missiles on a ship as if they were leafs growing by themselves on a tree if you know what I mean

Will always need a crane to lower the weapons into the launchers, but a better design would be to open the hatches and lower complete tube liners containing the missiles all ready to fire into each cell.

Side mounted cells would be tricky to access, but just a use of available space...

It is interesting... sometimes they say 40km and 120km range for the big and small 9M96 missiles and sometimes it is 60km and 150km range... perhaps the two shorter ranges are for the export models?

BTW had a look at photos of the Granit launchers on the Oscars and the tubes look to be over 1m across... perhaps the rear fins don't fold?

The tubes on the Kuznetsov are big too.

The range of 40 and 120km was mentioned back in the late 90´s as the 9M96 emerged. Engines and propellant got better since then.

Pic of P-700 in its transport/launch container.

Good news!
I wonder if its actually meeting original planned specs now or if they rolled back the requirements a bit?

Hope they do a video like the one where Grigorovich did a 6 (or was it 8?) missile salvo launch at 3 (4?) simultaneous targets.

it could be that we are talking about three types of missiles not two as discussed about untill now

- 40km (small range) , 60km (from BUK - medium range ) and 120km for export and 150km (long range)

There are supposedly the 9M96 (60km), 9M96M (120km) and 9M96M2 (150km) plus the 9M100 (10km).

The BUK-M3 missile is Shtil-1 on 11356.
I've seen no indication its compatible with Redut, though presumably the Active version could work with Poliment.

One cell can hold four 9M100.


And a missile with a much larger diameter then 9M96, according to Gunship.

Might just be for testing.

The 9M96 serious of missiles were called S-400, but will become S-350 missiles in the land based missile system.

Originally there were four S-400s to each launcher and the 9M96 were designed to have four missiles for each S-400 missile tube.

In the tube above they use a liner that only has one tube per launch hatch but there is clearly room for more than one tube on the final missile system... it was initially intended for there to be four smaller missiles per tube, and indeed in terms of length you could probably put two layers of the shorter 40-60km range missiles.

Very simply it would be very inefficient if you could only have one missile per tube no matter what type.

Being able to have one 400km range missile in the tube makes sense because it would be a big missile, but if smaller missiles only fit one per tube why would you bother carrying smaller missiles... you wouldn't.

But if the choice was one 400km missile or four 150km range missiles or 8 60km range missiles then you can mix and match your weapons to meet potential situations.

For instance if you have a 12 tube launcher you might want four tubes for long range weapons that could take down AWACS aircraft or inflight refuelling tanker aircraft that stray too close or JSTARS or Growler aircraft that you might be able to catch unaware... that leaves 8 tubes, so four tubes with 150km range missiles would give you 16 shots at aircraft, and 32 shots at missiles or close in threats, for a total of 52 missiles in a 12 tube launcher... that is pretty good defence and most ships should be able to manage at least two launchers so you can double that sort of fire power.

Over time you could add even smaller missiles for CIWS defence like the 9M100 or indeed a new version of TOR that can be fitted to shallow areas of the deck with lots of ready to fire missiles.

Really huge news! Redut and Pantsir-M will be coming in a shipping container near you!

For the Russian Navy will develop a containerized missile systems

Container versions of UKSK/M and Redut? Oh the possibilities....

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

It is not clear how many modules of 4 or 8 cells can they normally carry. If they have less than 16 cells I would find more practical a containered shtil (naval buk), that I believe has a decent 65 km range

Container Redut likely will able to fire missiles designated for Vityaz, so medium range will likely be covered.

Well what sort of radar would it need in these containers?

These missiles are ARH and IIR, so the civilian ship carrying these containers could have a datalink to the naval network, or it could use its own civilian air search radar to find a target and calculate an intercept box to direct these missiles too so they could then activate their own radar inside the nose of the missile and engage the target.

I would say having a large number of these crates sitting on the decks of ships with a single Ka-31 helo would be interesting... even on a civilian cargo ship...

But more importantly it makes Russian military ships rather more flexible because ships can be uparmed simply by putting a crate on it deck for specific missions to add capability....

Makes them much more modular... expect new Russian military ships to have free deck space for cargo containers... will be useful for logistics too...

I guess you could do an S-350 radar truck bit in one container, a TEL truck in another

1) 3 kinds of missiles presented + one perspective with range 400km altitude 35km Izvestia claims it is built base of 40N6E

Well that confirms why the area under each Redut hatch is so big... to fit the 40N6 missiles.

Therefore it is logical that the 9M96 missiles can be loaded four to each hatch, and the smaller 9M100 can be fitted 16 to each hatch... and that is assuming they only use one layer of missiles as the much smaller 9M100 missiles might be short enough to stack in two layers...