Russian Sniper Rifles and Units

Werewolf wrote:Antimaterial is not really job they do, most vehicles withstand 12.7mm rounds, but they still can engage infantry behind brickwalls or with heavy body armor, in some smaller armored vehicles, but nothing like a "tanker", they can destroy jeeps but that's about it.

A tanker is an "fuel" tanker, not a tank; they are very "soft". Antimaterial rifles are really for use against the logistics and support, not the men.

magnumcromagnon wrote:I kind of want to see a 14.5mm caliber antimaterial rifle developed, using modern ammunition. It may prove impractical, but they should at least attempt it.

There are many Russian antimaterial rifles using dozens of round types, some even using the 30 mm X 165 mm round, many very exotic. The 14.5 mm is an overkill for the role; therefore 12.7 mm is tactically superior due to its lighter weight (round and rifle).

I kind of want to see a 14.5mm caliber antimaterial rifle developed, using modern ammunition. It may prove impractical, but they should at least attempt it.

The south africans have a rifle that combines a 20mm cannon round and a 14.5mm round option... just change the barrels and swap between the two calibres.

the 20mm is effective to 1,600m with HE rounds being quite powerful and effective against a range of targets, but the 14.5mm barrel is used against armoured targets out to 2.5km with its higher velocity making it more effective out to much greater range than the lower velocity 20mm round.

I have often mentioned on this site that a Russian rifle using the 23 x 115mm round currently in use in the Russian military (the Mi-35Ms with chin mounted 23mm twin barrel guns use this round as standard), and the 14.5 x 114mm round of similar size could be used in the same combination.

A modern SLAP round for the 14.5mm round would have impressive performance... a 15mm calibre weapon developed in Europe in the 1990s had the ability to penetrate 40mm armour at 1km using a similar round and it was based on the 14.5mm round.

More importantly a 23 x 115mm round would have a combination of a heavy HE projectile (same projectile as fitted to the anti aircraft 23 x 152mm round fired by the ZU-23 and ZSU-23-4) but the wider calibre should allow more energy to be pushed down it meaning a SLAP round in 23 x 115mm might be even more powerful than the 14.5mm version.

Keep a barrel for both and perhaps extra smoothbore barrels for the APFSDS rounds and you would have an impressive weapon that uses standard in service ammo...

The 14.5 mm is an overkill for the role; therefore 12.7 mm is tactically superior due to its lighter weight (round and rifle).

For certain uses the fact that the 14.5mm generates twice the energy at the muzzle than any 12.7mm round makes it attractive and interesting... shoulder fired anti helo rifle anyone?

Perhaps with a backup short barrel 40mm grenade barrel for the caseless Balkan grenade launcher effective to 2.5km, or a 23 x 115mm barrel effective to 3-4km...

Huge potential.

With modern external weapon mounts having a dual feed rifle with HE and APFSDS rounds for soft and hard targets and the electronic sight and software to allow for their very different trajectories would make a very powerful weapon system...

flamming_python wrote:

GarryB wrote:Nice article, with a nice photo of an ASVK.

A bullpup 12.7 x 108mm calibre bolt action rifle...

Very nice little weapon.

Funny I only found out what an ASVK was just today, and now I see your post on it.

In Russia it's designated for the anti-sniper role. The OSV-98 is in the same class too.

Question is does the Russian military have counter-sniper roles? I would assume so going by the existence of such rifles, but I haven't heard of anything concrete.

Company HQ team or teams are armed with snipers that are for anti-sniper or other role seen fit. Speaking with a friend he told me his company commander had a thermal scope which he bought, My company when in Tula started issuing a few gun sights on weapons for us. Although was not in numbers that were decent. When in Pskov though during 2011 we were being issued new sights and my issued AK-74M had a 1P63 sight. But back on sniper role, I've seen a SV-98 being used by a recon team. So they would be the closest to or even a counter sniper team or counter sniper capable role.

hmm, all this talk of antimaterial rifles had me thinking:

would be even more funny if a battle rifle utilizing 14.5mm/23mm calibre would be in the hands of an exosuited soldier- use some concrete penetrating radar and watch as the delicious combo goes into town against infantry in urban setting. wallbanging with aimbot ftw

Is the Russian army adapting new long range such as Orsis T-5000 or the Lobaev sniper rifles into service?

par far wrote:Is the Russian army adapting new long range such as Orsis T-5000 or the Lobaev sniper rifles into service?

AFAIK, only FSB units have the T-5000 so far, but it seems it will enter wider use. The new Lobaev rifle has only just been presented.

....

Rogozin was shown a new RPG, thermobaric grenades as well as a new armour piercing round for the Orsis T-5000 designed to set alight diesel fuel in armoured vehicles.

http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2015/04/twitter.html

AFAIK there are 338 Lapua Magnum calibre versions of the SVD and the SV-98... the latter called the SV-338. The 338 calibre they are using is optimised for shooting at ranges of 1.5km or so, and would be used by new sniper units (GRU).

Other military sniper units are now looking at long range weapons as well.

Question: i saw in movies that are scopes and binoculars that see trought walls. There is a such thing? Only walls but also metal?

victor1985 wrote:Question: i saw in movies that are scopes and binoculars that see trought walls. There is a such thing? Only walls but also metal?

There is no electromagnetic spectrum in the optical/visual range that can see through thick materials so far. There could be a X-ray vision like device like in the Movie Ereaser, but that is unlikely.

According to this: http://detonator666.livejournal.com/581642.html

The VS-121 will replace the iconic Dragunov SVD (on which it's based) as the general issue sniper rifle in Army units.

The new rifle is fitted with an up-to-date trigger and firing mechanism, and is compatible with 7.62×54mm and 7.62×51mm shells, as well as with “advanced new ammunition currently developed by the Izhmash design-engineering center specialists,” the statement issued by the Izhevsk Machinebuilding Plant (Izhmash)

The VS-121 rifle comes with improved action, and is equipped with suppressor and Picatinny rail for mounting various optoelectronic devices. According to Izhmash’s Chief Designer Vladimir Zlobin, the new rifle is “compact and light,” its weight being 4.5kg.

http://rt.com/news/izhmash-bullpup-sniper-rifle-889/

victor1985 wrote:Question: i saw in movies that are scopes and binoculars that see trought walls. There is a such thing? Only walls but also metal?

well you can always use a spotter with line of sight to target and triangulate where to wallbang- this is done with electronic devices ofc. an aimpoint will appear on the wall where you need to shoot and boom headshots aplenty, along with cries of hackzzz and somesuch.

Cyberspec wrote:

par far wrote:Is the Russian army adapting new long range such as Orsis T-5000 or the Lobaev sniper rifles into service?

AFAIK, only FSB units have the T-5000 so far, but it seems it will enter wider use. The new Lobaev rifle has only just been presented.

....

Rogozin was shown a new RPG, thermobaric grenades as well as a new armour piercing round for the Orsis T-5000 designed to set alight diesel fuel in armoured vehicles.

http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2015/04/twitter.html

I really hope they accept the Lobaev Sniper into they service, they are great looking Sniper rifles.

http://lobaevarms.com/products/

The lobaev rifles are precision engineered high accuracy rifles... for use in every platoon as a standard rifle they would not be suitable as they are bolt action and every bump and bounce would not do them any good.

Let the GRU Spetsnaz snipers take Lobaev rifles with the spotter carrying the VS-121 or large model AK12...

GarryB wrote:The lobaev rifles are precision engineered high accuracy rifles... for use in every platoon as a standard rifle they would not be suitable as they are bolt action and every bump and bounce would not do them any good.

Let the GRU Spetsnaz snipers take Lobaev rifles with the spotter carrying the VS-121 or large model AK12...

That is a good idea, when it comes to Snipers, I think Russia is behind some west countries. We can test the Lobaev rifles in Eastern Ukraine What is the large model AK12, a new sniper system.

par far wrote:

GarryB wrote:The lobaev rifles are precision engineered high accuracy rifles... for use in every platoon as a standard rifle they would not be suitable as they are bolt action and every bump and bounce would not do them any good.

Let the GRU Spetsnaz snipers take Lobaev rifles with the spotter carrying the VS-121 or large model AK12...

That is a good idea, when it comes to Snipers, I think Russia is behind some west countries. We can test the Lobaev rifles in Eastern Ukraine. What is the large model AK12, a new sniper system.

I think that this entire propaganda and over use of Barrett sniper rifles in movies has created this nonsense of west being better in sniper rifles, reality is different.

Russia builds world champions in sniper rifles Lobaev has proven that, not to mention that in the west barely someone knows any russian sniper rifle other than SVD.

Russian sniper rifles are numerous for different purposes in different calibres for different branches.

12.7x108mm Sniper rifles
SVN-98 (1998)
KSVK-12,7 (1998)
OSV-96 (1996)

12.7x54mm (Subsonic suppressed sniper rifle)

VSSK 12.7 (2002)

7.62x54mm Sniper Rifles
SVD (1963)
SVU (1991)
SV-98 (1998)

9.3x64mm Sniper Rifle

SVD-K (1998)


Special purpose suppressed Sniper Rifles

9x39mm Armor Piercing
VSK-94 (1994)
VSS (1987)

8.6x70mm (.338 Lapua Magnum)

T-5000 Orsis (2011)


10.36x77mm (.408 Cheytac)

Lobaev SVL

Russia has more than enough sniper rifles and it already has updated SVD with VS-121.

There are like 10 Barret sniper rifle versions. Never heard anything bad said about them. Loads of countries are using 25 year old design M82 and it sure looks better made than any up to date Russian antimaterial rifles. Not speaking about new ORSIS in development, naturally it will be more advanced than 2 decade old design.
Loaev, Orsis rifles are really nice, but Russian sniper rifle makers is still far away from companies like Accuracy International especially when it comes to innovations. Customers and profit are reflecting that, even specnaz were using foreign rifles like crappy SAKO TRG as they had better barrel than SV-98(IDK if it was fixed). Russia suddenly jumped forward in precise rifles and progress is amazing. But to be fair there is still loads of room for improvement. Russia should easen up weapon ownership so weapon makers could cash out on civilian customers and it would stimulate weapon development.

I think Russia is behind some west countries.

Not really. The west has focussed on extending range, which they are certainly good at, but the Russians had sharpshooters in pretty much every platoon... something the west has since adopted, but they also have snipers in the western sense and they are now getting the same long range weapons and equipment and should be every bit as capable as any western sniper.

We can test the Lobaev rifles in Eastern Ukraine

Nahhh... makes rather more sense to test them in Kiev and Brussels and Washington.

What is the large model AK12, a new sniper system.

The Ak12 is a family of weapons and includes SMGs, short barrel carbines, assault rifles, battle rifles/DMR, and LMGs.

The large model AK12 is in 7.62 x 54 or possibly 6x49mm and is intended as a medium range rifle like the SVD.

Russia has more than enough sniper rifles and it already has updated SVD with VS-121.

One weapon you missed is the SV-99 in .22lr based on a biathlon rifle... effective to 50-70m and pretty much totally silent... excellent for urban combat.

Regular wrote:There are like 10 Barret sniper rifle versions. Never heard anything bad said about them. Loads of countries are using 25 year old design M82 and it sure looks better made than any up to date Russian antimaterial rifles. Not speaking about new ORSIS in development, naturally it will be more advanced than 2 decade old design.
Loaev, Orsis rifles are really nice, but Russian sniper rifle makers is still far away from companies like Accuracy International especially when it comes to innovations. Customers and profit are reflecting that, even specnaz were using foreign rifles like crappy SAKO TRG as they had better barrel than SV-98(IDK if it was fixed). Russia suddenly jumped forward in precise rifles and progress is amazing.  But to be fair there is still loads of room for improvement. Russia should easen up weapon ownership so weapon makers could cash out on civilian customers and it would stimulate weapon development.

Innovation? Like? Actually the Mts 116 was pretty decent. This is something Russia had no real need until well in the 90's and the whole Chechen fiasco. When rifle accuracy mattered the most Izhmash, Tula and the rest had enough "innovations" about Biathlon and sporting rifles. Which basically boils down to who wants what? Mass produced M700 like in the US were quite possible. But there was no need for it. Most of the time the Soviets would slap good optics to the NSV and start sniping from REALLY long range.

Sobols, Toz and L7's were already quite enough, and those were hunting rifles.

One weapon you missed is the SV-99 in .22lr based on a biathlon rifle... effective to 50-70m and pretty much totally silent... excellent for urban combat.

I did not miss it i left it out because it has a calibre that was designed for squirels or bird hunting, not a calibre for any military use. That is the least effective calibre.

If you want effective and silenced weapon you have VSK-94,VSS or a less expensive version the AS VAL just need to buy sights for it which by the end will bring the costs again close to VSS.

GarryB wrote:
One weapon you missed is the SV-99 in .22lr based on a biathlon rifle... effective to 50-70m and pretty much totally silent... excellent for urban combat.

sounds like the perfect weapon for an assassin. helps that you can remove the stock and hold it like a pistol too.

I did not miss it i left it out because it has a calibre that was designed for squirels or bird hunting, not a calibre for any military use. That is the least effective calibre.

Funny you say that about .22lr and not about the early 50 cal rifles because their power was impressive, but their accuracy was pathetic without very special ammo... there is a reason they called those 50 cal Barretts anti material rifle... their purpose was to hit the sides of barns... not people.

In an urban environment shooting across a street the .22lr with subsonic ammo the only noise the target will hear will be the impact of the bullet in their neck or head.

You can pretend it is not an effective weapon in war, but in Stalingrad it could have been the most effective weapon to carry... you could carry 2,000 rounds of ammo easily and a bolt action would be as good as any semi auto and would be quieter and more reliable. A biathlon rifle version that is easy to carry on your back with skis would be ideal for operations in dense forest too... add a light SMG weapon like a PPS-43 and you would be very well equipped.

GarryB wrote:

I did not miss it i left it out because it has a calibre that was designed for squirels or bird hunting, not a calibre for any military use. That is the least effective calibre.

Funny you say that about .22lr and not about the early 50 cal rifles because their power was impressive, but their accuracy was pathetic without very special ammo... there is a reason they called those 50 cal Barretts anti material rifle... their purpose was to hit the sides of barns... not people.

In an urban environment shooting across a street the .22lr with subsonic ammo the only noise the target will hear will be the impact of the bullet in their neck or head.

You can pretend it is not an effective weapon in war, but in Stalingrad it could have been the most effective weapon to carry... you could carry 2,000 rounds of ammo easily and a bolt action would be as good as any semi auto and would be quieter and more reliable. A biathlon rifle version that is easy to carry on your back with skis would be ideal for operations in dense forest too... add a light SMG weapon like a PPS-43 and you would be very well equipped.

There is a reason no military around the world uses BB bulets like this, even in Stalingrad most soldiers had helmets, not the best environment to use a small calibre that does not even kill pigeons on impact.

Leave the squirels and pigeons alone you bastards

sounds like the perfect weapon for an assassin. helps that you can remove the stock and hold it like a pistol too.

I rather suspect the detachable stock is for shooting from awkward places like the space between floors of a building... the idea use would be to infiltrate an enemy position within an urban environment and move quietly between the floors to shoot at different angles at different targets silently.

After a day or two move to a different building and continue...

There is a reason no military around the world uses BB bulets like this, even in Stalingrad most soldiers had helmets, not the best environment to use a small calibre that does not even kill pigeons on impact.

Excellent.... they are only BB guns... if that is the case can I have my friend Craig back?

As I stated, within 50-70m a .22lr will kill with a head or neck shot. With a decent rifle you can get that head or neck shot out to about 50-70m.

ORSIS T-5000 sniper rifle is on par with its Western analogues. T-5000M coming.