Russian Su-24 shootdown by Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter

if you wanna see what Turks think ... severe gloating


http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833

new deliveries..

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

I don't know anything about this issue - what did Assad do to the Turkmens? Why will they never accept Assad?

I think most Syrians love Assad, otherwise he would have long ago crumbled. Most of the Syrian population is under his rule (~70%). The SAA has plenty of Sunni soldiers and officers.

I hope you realize that what you said about Turkmen and Sunnis in Syria, someone could say about the Kurds in Turkey too. Most of them hate the AKP and Erdogan, and some of those - hate the Turkish state and wish for their own one.

https://t.reembed.com/0CTEA83Rr01K0x6Ubu1WELXB

Rodinazombie wrote:Make of it what you will, id like to think its a reminder not to tar everyone with the same brush. And for those who say football crowds are made up of riff-raff, football fans can often surprise.

http://sputniknews.com/sport/20151126/1030782738/russia-turkey-football-national-anthem.html

Turkish supporters cheered the Russian national anthem during a game between the women’s national football teams of Russia and Turkey, said Ivan Genkenev, an official representative of the Russian team, according to Gazeta.ru.

According to Genkenev, the mood at the Turkish stadium was calm although there were almost 3,000 Turkish supporters in the stadium.

"The situation was perfectly normal…  Fans behaved very well. Everyone applauded the Russian anthem and after the game they thanked our team. We cheered [Turkish fans] in response. They supported their own players and our players. We didn't feel any negative feelings," the Russian women's national football team representative said.

The game itself ended in a 0-0 draw. Both teams are in Group 5, trying to qualify for the 2017 UEFA Women's Championship in the Netherlands. The draw allowed both teams to gain a point and now they're sharing the 4th and the 5th positions, respectively. Germany currently leads the group with 12 points.

Regardless of what's going on politically between the two countries, Turkish fans stayed sympathetic to Russia. Football once again proved to be beyond politics.

© SPUTNIK/ ALEXANDER VILF
Protesters Assemble Near Turkish Embassy in Moscow After Downing of Su-24
Relations between Russia and Turkey became strained after the Turkish Air Force shot down a Russian Su-24 bomber on Tuesday.
Several hundred people gathered on Wednesday in front of the Turkish Embassy in Moscow to protest Ankara's actions. Some protesters were holding Russian and Syrian flags, as well as placards condemning Turkey's actions.

Russian President Vladimir Putin described the Turkish attack on the Russian plane as a "stab in the back" carried out by "accomplices of terrorists."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/sport/20151126/1030782738/russia-turkey-football-national-anthem.html#ixzz3sb4pBggm

Yeah, I'm not buying. This is not the first time Turks organize this PR bullshit to try to wash themselves clean.

Coach is a bit naive, he should stick with sports.

Re: post #355/S-400 delivery:

Bring up the wolf's head!!

flamming_python wrote:I don't know anything about this issue - what did Assad do to the Turkmens? Why will they never accept Assad?

I think most Syrians love Assad, otherwise he would have long ago crumbled. Most of the Syrian population is under his rule (~70%). The SAA has plenty of Sunni soldiers and officers.

I hope you realize that what you said about Turkmen and Sunnis in Syria, someone could say about the Kurds in Turkey too. Most of them hate the AKP and Erdogan, and some of those - hate the Turkish state and wish for their own one.

Yep, pretty much. Turkish problem is they don`t understand how different are Levantine Arabs compared to Northern Syrians around Aleppo with whom they have close contacts. Even if on individual basis they don`t like much Assad or Alawites, they would rather have him than Erdogan imams or Saudi Beduins.

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

Have you been smoking some funny gas yourself???

You do not need to be concerned with Turkmens anymore, they are with God now.

After this Erdogan's fuckup, Assad stays permanently, that is beyond a shadow of a doubt, get used to it.

Also, regarding your old comment, only thing that Ottomans brought to Balkans is the second coming of dark age and collapse of civilization. You even reintroduced slave markets for the first time since the Roman Empire you sick fucks!!!!

PapaDragon wrote:Also, regarding your old comment, only thing that Ottomans brought to Balkans is the second coming of dark age and collapse of civilization. You even reintroduced slave markets for the first time since the Roman Empire you sick fucks!!!!

Now there, he isn`t responsible for what happened 500 years ago.

flamming_python wrote:
I think most Syrians love Assad, otherwise he would have long ago crumbled. Most of the Syrian population is under his rule (~70%). The SAA has plenty of Sunni soldiers and officers.

They either love him or a least like him well enough. That's why the mantra of the anti-Assad crew is always some formulation of "Assad must go!," and not "let the Syrian people decide," as Russia is saying. The West's constantly-touted love of democracy in reality only extends as far is it will produce a result that coincides with its geopolitical goals, otherwise fuck it.

flamming_python wrote:

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

I don't know anything about this issue - what did Assad do to the Turkmens? Why will they never accept Assad?

I think most Syrians love Assad, otherwise he would have long ago crumbled. Most of the Syrian population is under his rule (~70%). The SAA has plenty of Sunni soldiers and officers.

I hope you realize that what you said about Turkmen and Sunnis in Syria, someone could say about the Kurds in Turkey too. Most of them hate the AKP and Erdogan, and some of those - hate the Turkish state and wish for their own one.

Syrians do not love Assad. The loyalists are mostly not too fond of him which understandable after he failed to deal with crisis.
They do not fight for him, but for government and state.

Anyway, if the Syrian Turkmen continue fighting for regime change they should be treated like unreliable Muslims whose lands were liberated from Ottoman rule, forced to leave and not to return.

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

So, let me get this straight, you believe that Turkey has a right to dictate to another country (in this case Syria) that their president and political elites must simply go away? Isn't that highly presumptuous of Turkey? Should it not be the Syrian populations that gets to decide who will be their elected president? The precondition that Assad must go is stupid, untenable and should have been dropped long ago. It's been 4 years now, it's high time to realize that Assad and the system he represents actually has significant popular support. Even Russia does not make such presumptuous statements about the Ukrainian leadership.

In regards to Turkmen: have there been any concerted actions by the Assad government to restrict their cultural practices, religious practices, language, or any other serious ethnic discrimination? The only issues I have been able to find information on are the supposed claims of "ethnic cleansing" by Kurds.  However, this is from Turkish MSM, and based on Turkish (and their proxies) actions against Kurds in Syria, I don't really believe that.

Instead of trying to justify grabbing of land populated by Turkmen, maybe the best option (in order to minimize conflict) is simply coming to an agreement that Syria should remain an undivided state with limited regional autonomy, new egalitarian constitution is adopted, and the people of Syria are free to vote for their president and representative of legislative and executive branches of government. That way, not only the turkmen will enjoy autonomy within Syria, but will also have their political representatives in both parliament and senate of Syria able to guarantee their rights and interests. Additionally, the president+government would now be chosen democratically, so Assad and his cronies can always be kicked from power peacefully. Doesn't that sound so much better than the clusterfuck which might occur if Turkey goes for all-out escalation via military intervention and annexation?

Acheron wrote:In regards to Turkmen: have there been any concerted actions by the Assad government to restrict their cultural practices, religious practices, language, or any other serious ethnic discrimination? The only issues I have been able to find information on are the supposed claims of "ethnic cleansing" by Kurds.  However, this is from Turkish MSM, and based on Turkish (and their proxies) actions against Kurds in Syria, I don't really believe that.

Isn't the Syrian state an Arab supremacist state?
It is official name is Syrian Arab Republic for a reason.
The ideology of the ruling party is Ba'athism which is basically Arab fascism.
Syrian Kurds were severely discriminated by the Syrian state.
I am not sure about Syrian Turkmen, though.
Unlike the Syrian Kurds, they had a powerful supporter, Turkey.

As i said before.
His mindset is typical neo-ottoman thinking.

"He doesn't support Erdogan, but he support his politic's if they are beneficial for Turkey"

"BREAKING: Erdogan says Putin didn't answer phone call after downing of Russian jet." - Agence France-Presse

This is what my ex gf claimed when i asked her why she did not call me for a week.

It seems that turkey lost a lot of money when Russia started bombing the oil trucks that transported by isis to turkey , coward turkish action.

Militarov wrote:"BREAKING: Erdogan says Putin didn't answer phone call after downing of Russian jet." - Agence France-Presse

Erdogan now feels the fire under his anus. His friends from NATO most likely told him he's on his own in case Turkish jets start dropping like flies or Turkish soldiers start bleeding in Kurdistan.

flamming_python wrote:

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

I don't know anything about this issue - what did Assad do to the Turkmens? Why will they never accept Assad?

I think most Syrians love Assad, otherwise he would have long ago crumbled. Most of the Syrian population is under his rule (~70%). The SAA has plenty of Sunni soldiers and officers.

I hope you realize that what you said about Turkmen and Sunnis in Syria, someone could say about the Kurds in Turkey too. Most of them hate the AKP and Erdogan, and some of those - hate the Turkish state and wish for their own one.

Assad used poison gas on his own people as well as barrel bombs. The turkmens are safe from him because our protection.

Let me ask you something, would you allow that a tyrant who used poison gas on his own people is in charge over some of your people? The russians intervened in crimea for far less than that.

Putin knows this and evryone knows Putin will drop Assad sooner or later. We are in the endgame here. Evry site want to achieve the best outcome for itself. I know that russia must keep that Assad thing running but in the end will drop him.

Just explain me how you will hold syria alive when evry single government around it break off diplomatic relations, keep supporting anti assad groups?

I´m full supporting crushing ISIS, PKK, Al Nusra and all those monsters. But Assad is a red line. There is no scenario where Assad can be accepted from Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, USA, Israel. Its plain and simple impossible.

PapaDragon wrote:

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

Have you been smoking some funny gas yourself???

You do not need to be concerned with Turkmens anymore, they are with God now.

After this Erdogan's fuckup, Assad stays permanently, that is beyond a shadow of a doubt, get used to it.

Also, regarding your old comment, only thing that Ottomans brought to Balkans is the second coming of dark age and collapse of civilization. You even reintroduced slave markets for the first time since the Roman Empire you sick fucks!!!!

Don´t worry about Turkmens in northern syria. They won´t end like serbians in kosovo.

Mustafa wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Guys, maybe starting the Kurdish Express would indeed be a good idea?

No need to shoot down Turkish aircraft. Send a bunch of Igla-S to YPG/PKK together with routes of Turkish fighters... and watch them fall from the sky one by one. There is retaliation together with a degree of deniability that would not exist if RuAF shoots them down.

Would be bad if advanced weapons end up in the caucasus region. A country like russia, that has tenthousands of terrorists in its boarders, doing crueles attacks like the one in that school, should never threaten another nation with supporting terrorists against them. Putin is smart enough to not go this route.

Reality is, a mistake was done. We see alot of puffy faces right now. Diplomats will cool down the situation and in 2 or 3 weeks nobody gives a fuss anymore.

The Iranians hit the US almost 5 months after IranAir 655, this isn't over in 2 or 3 weeks. If anything, people are going to wait on the prowl to make the Turkish Air Force pay, ambush per ambush, dead per dead.

Right now it's only Turkmen time. As I said to you, Erdogan made a mistake thinking Russia would back down. Prepare those shrouds, people are going to enter by the wrong door.

The rest of it is ill informed rant. Assad so far has not been proved to have fired the Sarin gas, to the contrary, the jury is still out and now we've seen Jabhat and ISIS use the same kind of Sarin. Oh and two of your MP's accuse your government of doing it.

A country like Russia had thousands of Terrorists maybe a decade ago. Before a huge cleanup happened. But those terrorist opposed the Russian state first under nationalist disguise, then as simple jihadist assholes. While Turkey is harboring those thousands right now, arming them, healing them, keeping them up to attack a country on its border. The Turkish state is getting Surian Refugees to become fighters against Assad by out right paying them. Organization like IHH are keeping terrorists like Jabhat al Nusra alive.

Frankly, you were OK before now you're just defending the impossible.

Russian interests clash with Turkey's interest, this is the outcome so far, now it's round two and Turkey's not winning. Believe me.

Acheron wrote:

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

So, let me get this straight, you believe that Turkey has a right to dictate to another country (in this case Syria) that their president and political elites must simply go away? Isn't that highly presumptuous of Turkey? Should it not be the Syrian populations that gets to decide who will be their elected president? The precondition that Assad must go is stupid, untenable and should have been dropped long ago. It's been 4 years now, it's high time to realize that Assad and the system he represents actually has significant popular support. Even Russia does not make such presumptuous statements about the Ukrainian leadership.

In regards to Turkmen: have there been any concerted actions by the Assad government to restrict their cultural practices, religious practices, language, or any other serious ethnic discrimination? The only issues I have been able to find information on are the supposed claims of "ethnic cleansing" by Kurds.  However, this is from Turkish MSM, and based on Turkish (and their proxies) actions against Kurds in Syria, I don't really believe that.

Instead of trying to justify grabbing of land populated by Turkmen, maybe the best option (in order to minimize conflict) is simply coming to an agreement that Syria should remain an undivided state with limited regional autonomy, new egalitarian constitution is adopted, and the people of Syria are free to vote for their president and representative of legislative and executive branches of government. That way, not only the turkmen will enjoy autonomy within Syria, but will also have their political representatives in both parliament and senate of Syria able to guarantee their rights and interests. Additionally, the president+government would now be chosen democratically, so Assad and his cronies can always be kicked from power peacefully. Doesn't that sound so much better than the clusterfuck which might occur if Turkey goes for all-out escalation via military intervention and annexation?

I like democracy. What do you think about the solution to let the turkmen areas make a referendum like on crimea if they want leave syria and push their areas on turkey? Russia created an international tool with this method to solve such conflicts. That way the heat would be out of the oven from our side. The rest of syria could then freely chose its path as you suggested.

Mustafa wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

I don't know anything about this issue - what did Assad do to the Turkmens? Why will they never accept Assad?

I think most Syrians love Assad, otherwise he would have long ago crumbled. Most of the Syrian population is under his rule (~70%). The SAA has plenty of Sunni soldiers and officers.

I hope you realize that what you said about Turkmen and Sunnis in Syria, someone could say about the Kurds in Turkey too. Most of them hate the AKP and Erdogan, and some of those - hate the Turkish state and wish for their own one.

Assad used poison gas on his own people as well as barrel bombs. The turkmens are safe from him because our protection.

Let me ask you something, would you allow that a tyrant who used poison gas on his own people is in charge over some of your people? The russians intervened in crimea for far less than that.

Putin knows this and evryone knows Putin will drop Assad sooner or later. We are in the endgame here. Evry site want to achieve the best outcome for itself. I know that russia must keep that Assad thing running but in the end will drop him.

Just explain me how you will hold syria alive when evry single government around it break off diplomatic relations, keep supporting anti assad groups?

I´m full supporting crushing ISIS, PKK, Al Nusra and all those monsters. But Assad is a red line. There is no scenario where Assad can be accepted from Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, USA, Israel. Its plain and simple impossible.

In four years turkey, jordan, ksa, israel, usa, uk, france etc have all failed to take down assad nomatter how hard they tried. And now that they have russia backing and fighting alongside him they have no chance of removing him. Your dreams of regime change in syria were gone the moment the russian jets flew their first sorties.

You can either choose to accept it and move to find a compromise or keep denying it, either way the reality will hit you eventually. The only decision you have to make is how many more people have to die before you will recognise the reality.

Mustafa wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

I don't know anything about this issue - what did Assad do to the Turkmens? Why will they never accept Assad?

I think most Syrians love Assad, otherwise he would have long ago crumbled. Most of the Syrian population is under his rule (~70%). The SAA has plenty of Sunni soldiers and officers.

I hope you realize that what you said about Turkmen and Sunnis in Syria, someone could say about the Kurds in Turkey too. Most of them hate the AKP and Erdogan, and some of those - hate the Turkish state and wish for their own one.

Assad used poison gas on his own people as well as barrel bombs. The turkmens are safe from him because our protection.

Let me ask you something, would you allow that a tyrant who used poison gas on his own people is in charge over some of your people? The russians intervened in crimea for far less than that.

Putin knows this and evryone knows Putin will drop Assad sooner or later. We are in the endgame here. Evry site want to achieve the best outcome for itself. I know that russia must keep that Assad thing running but in the end will drop him.

Just explain me how you will hold syria alive when evry single government around it break off diplomatic relations, keep supporting anti assad groups?

I´m full supporting crushing ISIS, PKK, Al Nusra and all those monsters. But Assad is a red line. There is no scenario where Assad can be accepted from Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, USA, Israel. Its plain and simple impossible.

Just..dont go there, it wont be pretty.

"Claims have resurfaced that the Turkish government, under then-Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, was behind the chemical weapons attack in Syria in August 2013 that claimed over 1,300 lives, with opposition deputy Eren Erdem arguing the sarin gas was procured in Turkey and delivered to extremist groups in Syria. With Turkey's alleged involvement in the deadly incident still a heated topic of debate, the state-run Anadolu news agency's key role in circulating the first images of the attack to the world media contributes to the suspicions of Ankara's role in the assault. It raises questions as to how the Anadolu news agency received such detailed reports about the attack, the perpetrators or even the "list of attackers" when the agency's reporters were barred from areas controlled by Assad for running scores of stories against the Assad regime in line with Erdoğan's vision to topple the notorious Syrian leader and its authoritarian regime."

Now dont tell me, you read Eliot Higgins "expertise" xD Guy that 2 years ago did not know difference between submachine gun and an assault rifle.

Mustafa wrote:

Acheron wrote:

Mustafa wrote:I already said a dozen times it was a bad mistake. I´m also no supporter of Erdogan as a person, but i will never speak against the president.

I want good relations between our nation and russia. The only one who profits from this idiocy (which happened because our mistake) is ISIS. Evryone in the region is pretty nervous. It looks like nobody checked what airplane this was exactly. Which was a mistake.

But i want bring one point here, why we will never accept Assad in power in Syria. And russia pretty much knows they won´t be able to hold him in power if we actively work against it. Assad uses posion gas. Our government has the duty to protect our boarder, property and even more important life.

What if Assad sends an airplane to do a poison gas attack on some boarder city? What then? We all sit down and say: my bad?

Assad and his family clan have no future in syria.

If russia wants an agreement they better find a puppet that can replace him.

The turkmens are not secure under his regime. You either kick Assad out or cut off the turkmen areas and make them part of turkey.

There is no scenario where turkey or any other nation in the region will ever support Assad. Considering the fact, that 80% of syrians are sunni and hate him with passion as well you know where this is going. This is a point totally independend from erdogan. No turkish president will allow Assad to rule over turkmens. Thats the red line.

You can install there whoever you want. And even if you chose Lady Gaga as queen, so be it. But it won´t be Assad.

That area is our crimea. And our people always come first, even before economic interests.

So, let me get this straight, you believe that Turkey has a right to dictate to another country (in this case Syria) that their president and political elites must simply go away? Isn't that highly presumptuous of Turkey? Should it not be the Syrian populations that gets to decide who will be their elected president? The precondition that Assad must go is stupid, untenable and should have been dropped long ago. It's been 4 years now, it's high time to realize that Assad and the system he represents actually has significant popular support. Even Russia does not make such presumptuous statements about the Ukrainian leadership.

In regards to Turkmen: have there been any concerted actions by the Assad government to restrict their cultural practices, religious practices, language, or any other serious ethnic discrimination? The only issues I have been able to find information on are the supposed claims of "ethnic cleansing" by Kurds.  However, this is from Turkish MSM, and based on Turkish (and their proxies) actions against Kurds in Syria, I don't really believe that.

Instead of trying to justify grabbing of land populated by Turkmen, maybe the best option (in order to minimize conflict) is simply coming to an agreement that Syria should remain an undivided state with limited regional autonomy, new egalitarian constitution is adopted, and the people of Syria are free to vote for their president and representative of legislative and executive branches of government. That way, not only the turkmen will enjoy autonomy within Syria, but will also have their political representatives in both parliament and senate of Syria able to guarantee their rights and interests. Additionally, the president+government would now be chosen democratically, so Assad and his cronies can always be kicked from power peacefully. Doesn't that sound so much better than the clusterfuck which might occur if Turkey goes for all-out escalation via military intervention and annexation?

I like democracy. What do you think about the solution to let the turkmen areas make a referendum like on crimea if they want leave syria and push their areas on turkey? Russia created an international tool with this method to solve such conflicts. That way the heat would be out of the oven from our side. The rest of syria could then freely chose its path as you suggested.

Son, if you like democracy then you should stop supporting illegal regime change.

I dont normally do this, but i have doubts that you are turkish at all. You are deliberately trolling and throwing out incendiary comments knowing you will get a bite. Which mp.net user are you then?