The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

sepheronx wrote:

onwiththewar wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

Have not seen this explained or put so clearly before.

The Minsk-2 agreement opens the door for the reversing of the coup
in Ukraine.. and not only the pro Russian Factions in Donetsk and Lugansk
to have the right to speak their language..but in all ukraine too... it also opens
the door for them to have representation in kiev.. that is Pro Russian political parties
representation.. in short MInsk-2 is a document that pressure Ukraine into becoming
again a democracy with freedom of expression and freedom of association in politics.
So any Pro RUssian Candidate allowed to participate in next elections for President of
Ukraine ,have a big chance of winning , and reversing all the Banderafication of Ukraine.
to a nation friendly that is majority is friendly or neutral to Russia.

This of course the implementation of Minsk-2 is highly dependent on the pressure of Europe
on Americans and Kiev to continue and end the war there. But is not all 100% clear still..
because france Holland is opposing Russia in Syria..and Russia helping Assad could end
the support of France in opposing obama policies in ukraine and complicate everything.

Apparently Merkel SUPPORTS Russia in Syria.

Germany's Merkel sees need to cooperate with Russia on Syria

Germany and other western European powers need to work with Russia as well as the United States to solve the crisis in Syria, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday.

Link:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/12/us-mideast-crisis-syria-germany-idUSKCN0RC0LM20150912

Some comments about kidnapped Russian soldiers. I didn't find any info about this time, but last time what happened was (unconfirmed rumors of course): there were some strange random shootings on the road in Rostov region. Then the military sent these soldiers to help with investigation. Then they end up kidnapped (ambushed by a group of 30 people).  

The reason Russia did not make a fuss was many people involved in the kidnapping were from within Russia (5th columnists).

Did they arrest the people involved?  This shit is completely unacceptable and people need to be punished.  20 years in jail and labour.  Did the Soldiers get released?

Any links of such events?

Fifth columnist theory is bit of a stretch but if it is true (unlikely) then those locals will be having a chat with NAF boys on vacation. Ouch...

But with Russia officially claiming that Ukrainians kidnapped them Kiev is stuck. Sponsors will not back them on this particular fuckup (otherwise they would have by now) and I am sure they would not want to have their gas supply suffering ''hickups'' in the dead of winter.

Just another Ukrainian self inflicted sodomy nothing new to see here. Those two guys will be comming home sooner than later.

Russia Won't Let Ukrainians Freeze This Winter, Despite Hostility From Kiev

http://sputniknews.com/business/20150914/1026964308/russia-ukraine-gas-europe.html#ixzz3liFSc3Dv

This could go in a number of threads, but ultimately it is about Donbass, so here. I am not making a political point by posting this, simply very briefly paraphrasing what Ishchenko has written, which I know will make some burst a blood vessel in rage, and if so, hurl stones at Ishchenko, not me.

Rostislav Ishchenko has written a long article about Russia and Russians. He argues that Russia is held together by the fact that the majority population is ethnic Russian, and in areas were the population of ethnic Russians has fallen, essentially in the Muslim areas, then those areas begin to revert to old tribal conditions and loose an identity as Russian. He points out that while the decrease in the population has stopped and been reversed, the increase has occured in Muslim areas as well as being the result of immigration from primarily Muslim countries that had been part of Soviet Union. I point out that Ishchenko is careful not to use the word "Muslim", but simply by naming a republic or country it is obvious to the blind what he really means. And he further states that the decrease of ethnic Russians in the historic heartlands in fact continues. This is relevant to Donbass as he sees that if Donbass, or a larger Novorossiya, becomes part of Russia, then it will increase the proportion of ethnic Russians in Russia, and help to keep Russia Russian, and not something else. There is much more nuance to his article than I can put here without translating word for word the entire piece. I notice fortruss often translate him, but I wonder if this will be too hot for them as it is "off message".
http://news-front.info/2015/09/14/integraciya-donbassa-i-rerusifikaciya-rossii-rostislav-ishhenko/

In other news which I notice has not been replicated here, there were disturbances in Odessa and Kharkov over the weekend caused by pravy sektor and other radikals. I had posted about what happened in Odessa yesterday, and then deleted the post as perhaps such news simply gives oxygen to fascists, but it should be known that the clowns were in fact performing. Also it seems that Yarosh wants pravy sektor, "Svoboda" and the other radikals to join as one force. Not an unexpected move.

Is it viable if Russia implements a Russianization program to make these Republics more Russian? even gradually? lets say, in a span of 10, 20 or even 30 years?

By using an argument that for various reasons is uncomfortable to some, Ishchenko is saying that Russia needs Donbass as Donbass is in all regards except errors made by 20th century politicians, Russian, just as Crimea. The argument he makes could be extended beyond Donbass, but that will be for further in the future. He threw a stone into the pond to see what ripples will occur, and after the elections it is likely there will be more stones, more ripples. Some people will go red in the face and huff and puff, but eventually Donbass will be part of Russia, then more stones and ripples and red faced shouting until it is all finished.

Khepesh wrote:This could go in a number of threads, but ultimately it is about Donbass, so here. I am not making a political point by posting this, simply very briefly paraphrasing what Ishchenko has written, which I know will make some burst a blood vessel in rage, and if so, hurl stones at Ishchenko, not me.

Rostislav Ishchenko has written a long article about Russia and Russians. He argues that Russia is held together by the fact that the majority population is ethnic Russian, and in areas were the population of ethnic Russians has fallen, essentially in the Muslim areas, then those areas begin to revert to old tribal conditions and loose an identity as Russian. He points out that while the decrease in the population has stopped and been reversed, the increase has occured in Muslim areas as well as being the result of immigration from primarily Muslim countries that had been part of Soviet Union. I point out that Ishchenko is careful not to use the word "Muslim", but simply by naming a republic or country it is obvious to the blind what he really means. And he further states that the decrease of ethnic Russians in the historic heartlands in fact continues. This is relevant to Donbass as he sees that if Donbass, or a larger Novorossiya, becomes part of Russia, then it will increase the proportion of ethnic Russians in Russia, and help to keep Russia Russian, and not something else. There is much more nuance to his article than I can put here without translating word for word the entire piece. I notice fortruss often translate him, but I wonder if this will be too hot for them as it is "off message".
http://news-front.info/2015/09/14/integraciya-donbassa-i-rerusifikaciya-rossii-rostislav-ishhenko/

In other news which I notice has not been replicated here, there were disturbances in Odessa and Kharkov over the weekend caused by pravy sektor and other radikals. I had posted about what happened in Odessa yesterday, and then deleted the post as perhaps such news simply gives oxygen to fascists, but it should be known that the clowns were in fact performing. Also it seems that Yarosh wants pravy sektor, "Svoboda" and the other radikals to join as one force. Not an unexpected move.

This is a simple case of using muslim-scare to make argument about abandoning current (very efficient) strategy in favor of integrating Donbass into Russia. Shoddily done I have to say.

Like sephrenox said, demographics work in favour of ethnic Russians (whatever qualifies as such) and current makeup of Russian population is an advantage, not weakness.

But if you are really upset about Muslims taking over you can take comfort in the fact that Russia will be among last places to go full Islam. USA, Europe and Australia already gave up, Africa and Asia will be easy pickings.
That leaves Russia and South America as last holdouts of Christianity and Japan as non-islamic. No point crying over spilled milk.

If Russia wants to keep and promote it's identity then it needs to give it's population something to be proud of and it is exactly what it does now. And more is being done now in that department than at any point in Russia's history.
Economy, culture, art, science, megaprojects, education, healtcare, infrastructure, industry, living standards, it all keeps going forward.  
Just keep it up...

Edit:
Trading loyal hard working Central Asian immigrants for bunch of ungrateful parasitic backstabbing russophobic ukrainian Nazi scum is very poor choice as practise has proven it.

Skin color and eye shape are waaay overrated.

PapaDragon wrote:

This is a simple case of using muslim-scare to make argument about abandoning current (very efficient) strategy in favor of integrating Donbass into Russia. Shoddily done I have to say.

Like sephrenox said, demographics work in favour of ethnic Russians (whatever qualifies as such) and current makeup of Russian population is an advantage, not weakness.

But if you are really upset about Muslims taking over you can take comfort in the fact that Russia will be among last places to go full Islam. USA, Europe and Australia already gave up, Africa and Asia will be easy pickings.
That leaves Russia and South America as last holdouts of Christianity and Japan as non-islamic. No point crying over spilled milk.

If Russia wants to keep and promote it's identity then it needs to give it's population something to be proud of and it is exactly what it does now. And more is being done now in that department than at any point in Russia's history.
Economy, culture, art, science, megaprojects, education, healtcare, infrastructure, industry, living standards, it all keeps going forward.  
Just keep it up...

Edit:
Trading loyal hard working Central Asian immigrants for bunch of ungrateful parasitic backstabbing russophobic ukrainian Nazi scum is very poor choice as practise has proven it.

Skin color and eye shape are waaay overrated.

I hoped it was clear I was only using Ishchenko's article to further my view that Donbass is Russian. Ishchenko is only doing that. Yes, it can be seen as clumsy, but his article really has nothing to do with Muslims, and I pointed out that he never uses the word and I only did so for clarity. I don't care what variety of flying spaghetti monster people believe in, as long as they do not make any attempt to impose it on me.

I don't know what the birth rate is in this large village but from the looks of things there's a whole lot of amorous encounters been happening for the last year and more, I'm talking babies and preggers ladies everywhere. I do know that every Saturday the number of births by gender for the week are announced on the local news and two years ago a very busy week was 15 or so. Now it's 25 on an average week and over thirty on some and that's just hospital births.

Another subject. Our climate down here is unique for the peninsula, and the climate for this village can vary dramatically from one end to the other, for instance Battery way out on the southwest end of town is generally 2 to 3 degrees colder than our little north side valley. In general our valley idea of a hard winter is couple 10 cm snows a season and it's gone in a day or two. Weather stays soft until late October and then slowly chills. Oddly, this year is different. Three weeks ago I mentioned to VCO as we headed up Post Road above Inkerman on the south side that some of the trees were already changing color, the deep green changing to a lighter green/yellow for about 50% of the flora.

Now it's distinctly chilly at night and some trees have totally turned yellow/brown and are dropping leaves like mad. This is a bit early, as in almost a month early. I actually tested out the heating system today, it was that chilly last night. Last week our usual high temp was 33-34, today it struggled to break 25 and it was 14 at 05. Makes working outside getting the lawn and gardens rather pleasant, but it also says we're going to have a pretty severe winter. This means up north it's going to be WAY worse than normal. Methinks 404, damn their eyes, will have a very unhappy coming six months.

Project Canada wrote:

Russia Won't Let Ukrainians Freeze This Winter, Despite Hostility From Kiev

http://sputniknews.com/business/20150914/1026964308/russia-ukraine-gas-europe.html#ixzz3liFSc3Dv

Moskva doesn't do it for free. They get money... from the West, as Kyiv is essentially having no ability to pay.

PapaDragon wrote:

Khepesh wrote:This could go in a number of threads, but ultimately it is about Donbass, so here. I am not making a political point by posting this, simply very briefly paraphrasing what Ishchenko has written, which I know will make some burst a blood vessel in rage, and if so, hurl stones at Ishchenko, not me.

Rostislav Ishchenko has written a long article about Russia and Russians. He argues that Russia is held together by the fact that the majority population is ethnic Russian, and in areas were the population of ethnic Russians has fallen, essentially in the Muslim areas, then those areas begin to revert to old tribal conditions and loose an identity as Russian. He points out that while the decrease in the population has stopped and been reversed, the increase has occured in Muslim areas as well as being the result of immigration from primarily Muslim countries that had been part of Soviet Union. I point out that Ishchenko is careful not to use the word "Muslim", but simply by naming a republic or country it is obvious to the blind what he really means. And he further states that the decrease of ethnic Russians in the historic heartlands in fact continues. This is relevant to Donbass as he sees that if Donbass, or a larger Novorossiya, becomes part of Russia, then it will increase the proportion of ethnic Russians in Russia, and help to keep Russia Russian, and not something else. There is much more nuance to his article than I can put here without translating word for word the entire piece. I notice fortruss often translate him, but I wonder if this will be too hot for them as it is "off message".
http://news-front.info/2015/09/14/integraciya-donbassa-i-rerusifikaciya-rossii-rostislav-ishhenko/

In other news which I notice has not been replicated here, there were disturbances in Odessa and Kharkov over the weekend caused by pravy sektor and other radikals. I had posted about what happened in Odessa yesterday, and then deleted the post as perhaps such news simply gives oxygen to fascists, but it should be known that the clowns were in fact performing. Also it seems that Yarosh wants pravy sektor, "Svoboda" and the other radikals to join as one force. Not an unexpected move.

This is a simple case of using muslim-scare to make argument about abandoning current (very efficient) strategy in favor of integrating Donbass into Russia. Shoddily done I have to say.

Like sephrenox said, demographics work in favour of ethnic Russians (whatever qualifies as such) and current makeup of Russian population is an advantage, not weakness.

But if you are really upset about Muslims taking over you can take comfort in the fact that Russia will be among last places to go full Islam. USA, Europe and Australia already gave up, Africa and Asia will be easy pickings.
That leaves Russia and South America as last holdouts of Christianity and Japan as non-islamic. No point crying over spilled milk.

If Russia wants to keep and promote it's identity then it needs to give it's population something to be proud of and it is exactly what it does now. And more is being done now in that department than at any point in Russia's history.
Economy, culture, art, science, megaprojects, education, healtcare, infrastructure, industry, living standards, it all keeps going forward.  
Just keep it up...

Edit:
Trading loyal hard working Central Asian immigrants for bunch of ungrateful parasitic backstabbing russophobic ukrainian Nazi scum is very poor choice as practise has proven it.

Skin color and eye shape are waaay overrated.

Well Ukrainians are bit lazy and love to slack off. But under Russian supervision they can work to meet deadlines and are literate and sometimes think. But central asian Dzhumshuts are story on their own. No wonder some of them get their heads caved in. Spend some time in Moscow and You will see how useless they are. They cant operate machinery, they are physically weak, they can't speak Russian.
Look at this story, there is a reason Chelebinsk sent most of them away. Goldern words @ 1:00.

color , eyes don't matter. But genetics does.
You have to be blind or PC brainwashed not to believe it. We are all animals. It would be stupid to think evolution has nothing to with ethnic groups.
And hell knows what country had better environment to breed people like Russians. Where survival of the fittest counts even in everyday life.
Ironically real Russians are closest to what nazis would call aryans, that's why they had hatred towards slavs. It must hurt for Ukrainians who want to distance themselves from slavs as much as they can..  Mongrels

Regular wrote:
Well Ukrainians are bit lazy and love to slack off. Buy they can work to meet deadlines and are literate and sometimes think. But central asian Dzhumshuts are story on their own. No wonder some of them get their heads caved in. Spend some time in Moscow and You will see how useless they are. They cant operate machinery, they are physically weak, they can't speak Russian.

color , eyes don't matter. But genetics does.
You have to be blind or PC brainwashed not to believe it. We are all animals. It would be stupid to think evolution has nothing to with ethnic groups.
And hell knows what country had better environment to breed people like Russians. Where survival of the fittest counts even in everyday life.
Ironically real Russians are closest to what nazis would call aryans, that's why they had hatred towards slavs. It must hurt for Ukrainians who want to distance themselves from slavs as much as they can..  Mongrels

It's ironic how some people on both sides of this conflict seem to be "cut from the same cloth"....
I wonder if they realize it themselves, in between bouts of "Aryan genetic purity" tests.

PS: Looking up heterosis and inbreeding depression could be enlightening.

Accepting reality at last.

KIEV (Sputnik) — Kiev is satisfied with the conditions for Russian gas supplies agreed during a recent meeting in Vienna, Ukraine's Deputy Energy Minister Olexandr Svetelik said Monday. "There is an agreement. In my opinion, it is normal, good, because it stipulates gas supplies to Europe for all countries on equal terms. We do not seek any special treatment. We ask for normal gas supplies, as for everyone else," Svetelik told RIA Novosti, answering a question on whether Kiev was happy with the recently reached deal.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150914/1026981073.html#ixzz3ljiyLZie

Another really major bit of journalism from Moscow based John Helmer today on MH-17. It is a long article here are the first two paras to set it out, this is sobering stuff, the truth will out my foot.

The Dutch Government has decided to launch a missile attack on Moscow in October. By suppressing all evidence obtained from the bodies of victims of the crash of Malaysian Airlines MH17, officials of the Dutch Safety Board and associated Dutch military officers, police and prosecutors are preparing to release a report on the crash with a gaping hole in its veracity.

At the same time, and apparently unknown in The Netherlands, an Australian coroners’ report on the identification and forensic testing of the bodies carried out in The Netherlands reveals post-mortem evidence to show that in their public statements the Dutch government officials have been lying about metal evidence they claim to have found. This evidence has not only been buried with the passengers’ remains. It has been buried by the Dutch Government and by coroners in the UK and Australia, who are now legally required to investigate independently what caused the deaths of citizens in their jurisdiction. All are withholding the CT scans, X-rays, autopsy and other post-mortem results, including metallurgical assays, the documentation of which accompanied the coffins of the aircraft’s victims from The Netherlands to their homelands.

....................................... (to last para, Westerebeke is i/c police investigation)

Westerebeke refuses to answer. This is the black hole the Dutch have created in their own investigation, but they are unable to fill it with “iron”, and they cannot explain how the alleged detonation of a Buk warhead could release so little recovered shrapnel; possibly none at all.

http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14084

If true this is amazing, taken at face value, hundreds and hundreds of tanks, APC and IFV must have hit the roads. I am sure he didn't mean to include trucks and other logistics vehicles, possibly clearer in the original Ukrainian.

KIEV, September 14. /TASS/. All Ukrainian tanks have been withdrawn from the contact line in accordance with the Minsk agreements, Ukrainian defense ministry said on Monday.

"All military vehicles have been withdrawn from the contact line to a distance outlined in the Minsk agreements," the defense ministry said.

At the same time, the ministry noted that "they will fast take fighting positions and resist the enemy in case of provocation, right after receiving a command from the leadership."


I have just read today's OSCE update and there is, of course no mention of any mass vehicle movements in the Government controlled areas, no convoys, no loaded flatbeds (since the handful last week) etc. They would show up as 'illegal' movements at least to start with. There are still compounds with missing artillery and Grad launchers. Looks like normal Kiev B/S or that they don't know what is happening.

Interesting report.. i found , apparently of US CIA spies in Ukraine ,about the
proxy war they have on Russia.. their observations of "Russian Army tactics"..
as they call it in the conflict..

If the report is half true.. and you remove all the assumptions and propaganda bullshit..
like their propaganda of "Russian sending 600 tanks to the Rebels cross borders.. while
Americans "denying kiev" the support of lethal weapons and Stinger missiles.. "to not provoke them" and create a major conflict..  Or the claim that Obama banned its military from going to the front line.. so is a half bullshit , half interesting to read report. Or How Russia "is becoming
more aggressive" violating the cease of fire.. etc.. and zero mention of the bastard American
(that i hope burn in hell).. of the thousands civilians killed by the help they give to nazis in kiev.
he even calls the conflict a "Russo-Ukrainian" war.. as if Americans have nothing to do with it.. and there are not forces in Donetsk and Lugansk that oppose kiev and took a gun to fight.. is classic Imbeciles NEOCON propaganda.. who wrote the report.. in any case..

The report is half interesting to read.. and claim some things that you wonder if they
are true or not.. specially the drone war..and counter electronic warfare.. .But  at the same time shows his ignorance of Russian army capabilities and military hardware and precision weapons..

http://www.scribd.com/doc/274009061/Lessons-Learned-From-the-Russo-Ukraine-War#scribd


My question is.. he recommend in the end to Supply Ukraine with drones armed with missiles
that can fly at very high altitude up to (12,500 meters)  like the reaper drone  MQ-9 that can do direct fire..

as everyone know manpads cannot reach such altitudes.. at best ~9,000 m.  My question is
does Russia have drones that can fly that high?

Well, I think last week or the week before, coal supplies to Ukraine were stopped. Seems it is not so simple in practise. The TPP at Zuevskaya, which is in DNR territory between Makeevka and Shaktyersk, can only work properly if it has a type of coal that is not mined in DNR. So, coal deliveries resume to Ukraine in return for the anthracite needed for the TPP. But, coal from DNR only goes to DTEK, owned of course by Akhmetov. I don't have a link, but this was from an announcement by DNR minister of transport, Semyon Kuzmenko.

I note that Ukrainian companies can still cut it with the world's best. My highlight.

WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — The Ukrainian firm Jaspen Capital Partners Limited will pay $30 million in fines for profiting from an illegal trading scheme that involved hacking of corporate information, the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) said on Monday.

"Ukrainian-based Jaspen Capital Partners Limited and CEO Andriy Supranonok have agreed to pay $30 million to settle allegations they profited from trading on non-public corporate information hacked from newswire services," the press release read. In August, the US authorities charged nine Ukrainians, five of whom have been arrested, for participating in a global insider trading scheme that involved hacking news releases on mergers and acquisitions.

The SEC unsealed a separate complaint against the insider trading ring, saying that 34 traders across the world benefited from the hacking. Today's settlement demonstrates that even those beyond our borders who trade on stolen nonpublic information and use complex instruments in an attempt to avoid detection will ultimately be caught," SEC's Enforcement Division Director Andrew Ceresney said.

The SEC has previously described the illegal trading scheme as "unprecedented" in terms of the scope, the number of traders involved and the amount of the profits generated.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/business/20150914/1026991649.html#ixzz3lkEZcOog

Khepesh wrote:Well, I think last week or the week before, coal supplies to Ukraine were stopped. Seems it is not so simple in practise. The TPP at Zuevskaya, which is in DNR territory between Makeevka and Shaktyersk, can only work properly if it has a type of coal that is not mined in DNR. So, coal deliveries resume to Ukraine in return for the anthracite needed for the TPP. But, coal from DNR only goes to DTEK, owned of course by Akhmetov. I don't have a link, but this was from an announcement by DNR minister of transport, Semyon Kuzmenko.

It seemed to me at the time that it was Kiev cutting off its nose. It desperately needed the coal yet stopped railway related supplies that would have allowed it to continue. Still nothing like a good real politik barter deal like this.

Poro is on a roll

KIEV, September 14 /TASS/. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said on Monday he had postponed a new wave of army mobilization in Ukraine.

"I have decided to postpone mobilization in view of the ceasefire regime (in eastern Ukraine) and not to announce a new mobilization campaign," Poroshenko said at a meeting with the faction heads of parties that make up the parliamentary coalition adding that a possibility for that had now appeared. He also called for increasing budget to finance the contract army in Ukraine.

Six waves of mobilization have taken place in Ukraine. Last Sunday, September 13, President Poroshenko announced the start of large-scale demobilization in Ukraine.

Complete turn around from the events of last month. Is there a genuine worry about the country falling apart coming from Washington? Have they seen the proverbial writing on the wall?

Wouldn't hold my breath though, might just be smoke and mirrors. If there's been no offensive by the end of October... It'll be a start at least.

Take a look at how this Sick Sociopath NEOCONS think.. from the previous link..
as he call it.. the "Russo -Ukraine war".. This sick people do they really believe their crap?
You will not believe it.. how they think. take a look..


American Strategy and the U.S army

For nearly a hundred years the American forces had a major responsibility
defending democracy in Europe..  and helping securing peace for the continent.
in 2 world wars a million of US servicement were killed ,"fulfilling that mission in the region."

Ukraine have held a "free democratic" elections and the constitution being "reformed.."

This people are really sick ,mentally ill , they talk as if they were Gods and that the world
without them cannot exist.      The whole Report of the "Russo -Ukraine war."
Not a single mention of the civilians being systematically killed by Kiev, the witch hunt on
ethnic Russians in Ukraine and not a single mention of american interference and supplying weapons to kiev to sabotage te ceasefire.. According to him.. Ukraine did a miracle in holding
the Russian army on its positions..     Is like totally reverse logic .. of a mentally sick man.