Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Share

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:29 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Back to MH-17, John Helmer has released a new thread on the background to the rules surrounding the investigation and the difficulties following the release by Australian coroners (only 25 or so fragments found) that I posted yesterday (incidentally this new thread says that the pilots sister has said that there were no fragments in his body!). Hiding the truth (my highlight), if that is the plan, in the modern Internet connected world could be tough.

    The Dutch-Australian problem on November 5 became clearer a few days later, on November 14 in Melbourne, when two of the Australian pathologists and coronial court officers revealed publicly at an Asian coroners convention that there were no shrapnel wounds in the bodies of the MH1 passengers. Their report can be read here. Noone noticed the importance of the admission.

    By the next month the evidence of the bodies was clearer. A Buk missile explosion, with release of more than 7,800 metal fragments raking the port (left) side of the aircraft, starting at the pilot’s cockpit and going back to Row 12, was impossible. An 8-page report commissioned by Coroner Gray and drafted for him by David Ranson, a pathologist who had been working at Hilversum and who was head of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, was sent to the Australian victims. Gray’s purpose was to identify the cause of death and help the families understand how their loved ones had died, how swiftly, and if they had been conscious of what had befallen them.

    That report was released to a reporter named Carolyn Ford. She read it, and then summarized for publication. She didn’t understand the significance of what Ranson had revealed. Ranson himself was still unclear on this last month when he freely chatted. He said he had had regular debriefings and discussions with the Australian Federal Police on his findings. He denied that his use of the term “missile” in his reports meant a Buk. “Don’t confuse the meaning of the phrase, ‘missile injuries’. It means flying objects that strike the body’.” They were “rare”, Ranson has reported.


    The whole thing is at http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14240
    I read all the article. Part said that the pilot's body showed no signs of shrapnel or bullets, yet there is the photo of one of the pilots, not sure if captain or first-officer, with several large holes, sort of 30mm size, in his thorax. That, and other photos, were taken by a Dutch journalist at the scene before the bodies were removed, yet his photos seem to be totaly ignored by anybody from the "It was Putin" camp. I still do not understand how Australia, admittedly with twenty or so dead on MH17, seem to be controlling the investigation and ordering the Dutch and Malaysians about like servants, and to the extent that armed Australians are in Holland, wtf...   The only reason for this bizarre nonsense I can think of is that it they know it was Kiev's fault, but for political reasons cannot admit this while the junta is still in power. Maybe it had been presumed that Poroshenko would have fallen by now and disclosure of the truth would be less damaging, but as he is still thin power the nonsesne continues. I have no issues with individual Australians, but there seems to be something wrong with them collectively. All this bizarre arrogant crap with MH17, and it is still remembered that some of the worst and most butthurt posters and mods at MP were Australian.
    Haven't seen such pictures of pilot injuries, could you provide a link?

    Rodinazombie
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 582
    Points : 616
    Join date : 2015-04-22

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Rodinazombie on Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:39 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Back to MH-17, John Helmer has released a new thread on the background to the rules surrounding the investigation and the difficulties following the release by Australian coroners (only 25 or so fragments found) that I posted yesterday (incidentally this new thread says that the pilots sister has said that there were no fragments in his body!). Hiding the truth (my highlight), if that is the plan, in the modern Internet connected world could be tough.

    The Dutch-Australian problem on November 5 became clearer a few days later, on November 14 in Melbourne, when two of the Australian pathologists and coronial court officers revealed publicly at an Asian coroners convention that there were no shrapnel wounds in the bodies of the MH1 passengers. Their report can be read here. Noone noticed the importance of the admission.

    By the next month the evidence of the bodies was clearer. A Buk missile explosion, with release of more than 7,800 metal fragments raking the port (left) side of the aircraft, starting at the pilot’s cockpit and going back to Row 12, was impossible. An 8-page report commissioned by Coroner Gray and drafted for him by David Ranson, a pathologist who had been working at Hilversum and who was head of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, was sent to the Australian victims. Gray’s purpose was to identify the cause of death and help the families understand how their loved ones had died, how swiftly, and if they had been conscious of what had befallen them.

    That report was released to a reporter named Carolyn Ford. She read it, and then summarized for publication. She didn’t understand the significance of what Ranson had revealed. Ranson himself was still unclear on this last month when he freely chatted. He said he had had regular debriefings and discussions with the Australian Federal Police on his findings. He denied that his use of the term “missile” in his reports meant a Buk. “Don’t confuse the meaning of the phrase, ‘missile injuries’. It means flying objects that strike the body’.” They were “rare”, Ranson has reported.


    The whole thing is at http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14240
    I read all the article. Part said that the pilot's body showed no signs of shrapnel or bullets, yet there is the photo of one of the pilots, not sure if captain or first-officer, with several large holes, sort of 30mm size, in his thorax. That, and other photos, were taken by a Dutch journalist at the scene before the bodies were removed, yet his photos seem to be totaly ignored by anybody from the "It was Putin" camp. I still do not understand how Australia, admittedly with twenty or so dead on MH17, seem to be controlling the investigation and ordering the Dutch and Malaysians about like servants, and to the extent that armed Australians are in Holland, wtf...   The only reason for this bizarre nonsense I can think of is that it they know it was Kiev's fault, but for political reasons cannot admit this while the junta is still in power. Maybe it had been presumed that Poroshenko would have fallen by now and disclosure of the truth would be less damaging, but as he is still in power the nonsense continues. I have no issues with individual Australians, but there seems to be something wrong with them collectively. All this bizarre arrogant crap with MH17, and it is still remembered that some of the worst and most butthurt posters and mods at MP were Australian.


    Yes khepesh, i remember the ones. I have nothing but contempt for the aussie scumbag who was screaming ' i want to see dead russians' on mp.net after mh17. It sounds terrible, but the behaviour of westerners after mh17 and their whitewashing/ignoring kievs war crimes against civilians made lessened the sympathy of pro russians for the victims of mh17. Which is really sad, but true and inevitable.




    Khepesh
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1629
    Points : 1698
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Ахетатон и Уасет

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Khepesh on Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:46 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Haven't seen such pictures of pilot injuries, could you provide a link?
    This is the specific photo, and the rest are on this analysis by Rozhin. http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2077046.html

    auslander
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 861
    Points : 915
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  auslander on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:55 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Haven't seen such pictures of pilot injuries, could you provide a link?
    This is the specific photo, and the rest are on this analysis by Rozhin. http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2077046.html

    I have always been of the opinion the the orcs shot that plane down. I have the same photo and I have the earliest photos of the left side of the cockpit, taken when the plane was still burning hard. After seeing the holes in the cockpit panel, some entrance and some exit, it gives credence to the comments of Opolchensya at the wreckage sight of the right side of the cockpit being 'drenched in blood'.

    That being said, in two weeks when the dutch report is released The World will go nuts blaming Opolchensya and VVP for committing this crime when anyone with half a lick of sense can see who actually did it.

    kvs
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2521
    Points : 2654
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  kvs on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:16 am

    auslander wrote:
    I have always been of the opinion the the orcs shot that plane down. I have the same photo and I have the earliest photos of the left side of the cockpit, taken when the plane was still burning hard. After seeing the holes in the cockpit panel, some entrance and some exit, it gives credence to the comments of Opolchensya at the wreckage sight of the right side of the cockpit being 'drenched in blood'.

    That being said, in two weeks when the dutch report is released The World will go nuts blaming Opolchensya and VVP for committing this crime when anyone with half a lick of sense can see who actually did it.

    These monkeys will find any reason to hate Russians. The whole premise that the rebels and Putin are "guilty" is ludicrous.
    It requires intent and what possible motive would either the rebels or Putin have to shoot down some unrelated civilian
    airliner? Just to "prove" their evil credentials?

    To preempt the obvious claim that this was some sort of manslaughter at the least, I will point to the USA and its
    ratio of about 50 innocent people killed for every militant in their drone attacks in Pakistan and elsewhere. If collateral damage
    is good enough for Uncle Sam, it is good enough for everyone else. If Russia is to be "held to account" then so must
    the USA, the UK and France.

    I would like the "Russians did it" idiots to explain how the rebels managed to shut down the Ukr air force over the Donbas
    without Buk system use if they needed Buk systems. Aside from that one phoney baloney video of a Ukr Buk system being
    driven around in the Kiev regime controlled part of Lugansk City in 2014 and subsequently claimed to be in a different town,
    I have not seen any evidence of the rebels using Buk systems. NATO has not claimed that Buks (or S-300/400 systems)
    from within Russia were responsible either. So we are basically supposed to take seriously a cheap propaganda theory that
    Russia sent the rebels a Buk system which they then used to bring down MH17 and which they did not use for anything
    else. Where is the evidence of this Buk system being in rebel hands afterwards? The USA has 50cm resolution imaging
    capability and can identify this mythical Buk. But it hasn't even given us a grainy Digital Globe image.

    Vann7
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3228
    Points : 3352
    Join date : 2012-05-16

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:44 am

    and still Almaz-Antey idiots were claiming a Buk-S1 shot down the plane..
    creating doubts about the Russian government investigation that said it was a plane. Putin should hang the bastard of that company who mounted the show saying an old buk missile did it..
    pretty much the colonnel cassad site solved the whole crime.. it was a n SU-25 with a air to air missile. And apparently also there was 30mm cannon gun fire. too.

    Putin should shot the bastard for treason and trying to align with the west fantasy tale
    that Rebels did it with a buk missile.


    OminousSpudd
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 805
    Points : 824
    Join date : 2015-01-03
    Age : 21
    Location : Nelson, New Zealand

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  OminousSpudd on Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:54 am

    Khepesh wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Back to MH-17, John Helmer has released a new thread on the background to the rules surrounding the investigation and the difficulties following the release by Australian coroners (only 25 or so fragments found) that I posted yesterday (incidentally this new thread says that the pilots sister has said that there were no fragments in his body!). Hiding the truth (my highlight), if that is the plan, in the modern Internet connected world could be tough.

    The Dutch-Australian problem on November 5 became clearer a few days later, on November 14 in Melbourne, when two of the Australian pathologists and coronial court officers revealed publicly at an Asian coroners convention that there were no shrapnel wounds in the bodies of the MH1 passengers. Their report can be read here. Noone noticed the importance of the admission.

    By the next month the evidence of the bodies was clearer. A Buk missile explosion, with release of more than 7,800 metal fragments raking the port (left) side of the aircraft, starting at the pilot’s cockpit and going back to Row 12, was impossible. An 8-page report commissioned by Coroner Gray and drafted for him by David Ranson, a pathologist who had been working at Hilversum and who was head of the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, was sent to the Australian victims. Gray’s purpose was to identify the cause of death and help the families understand how their loved ones had died, how swiftly, and if they had been conscious of what had befallen them.

    That report was released to a reporter named Carolyn Ford. She read it, and then summarized for publication. She didn’t understand the significance of what Ranson had revealed. Ranson himself was still unclear on this last month when he freely chatted. He said he had had regular debriefings and discussions with the Australian Federal Police on his findings. He denied that his use of the term “missile” in his reports meant a Buk. “Don’t confuse the meaning of the phrase, ‘missile injuries’. It means flying objects that strike the body’.” They were “rare”, Ranson has reported.


    The whole thing is at http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14240
    I read all the article. Part said that the pilot's body showed no signs of shrapnel or bullets, yet there is the photo of one of the pilots, not sure if captain or first-officer, with several large holes, sort of 30mm size, in his thorax. That, and other photos, were taken by a Dutch journalist at the scene before the bodies were removed, yet his photos seem to be totaly ignored by anybody from the "It was Putin" camp. I still do not understand how Australia, admittedly with twenty or so dead on MH17, seem to be controlling the investigation and ordering the Dutch and Malaysians about like servants, and to the extent that armed Australians are in Holland, wtf...   The only reason for this bizarre nonsense I can think of is that it they know it was Kiev's fault, but for political reasons cannot admit this while the junta is still in power. Maybe it had been presumed that Poroshenko would have fallen by now and disclosure of the truth would be less damaging, but as he is still in power the nonsense continues. I have no issues with individual Australians, but there seems to be something wrong with them collectively. All this bizarre arrogant crap with MH17, and it is still remembered that some of the worst and most butthurt posters and mods at MP were Australian.

    Oh no, take it from a Kiwi, there is something seriously up with the Aussies at the moment. They have got what are essentially environmentalist extremists running the show in their politics, going out of their trees to convert to "sustainable energy" scams using the "Global Warming" farce as cover. They're in favour of the Washington proposed TPPA which does not benefit anyone anywhere at all in anyway whatsoever (except for Murica). The people there are becoming more and more obnoxiously Americanised by the day, and like you noted, they insist on being the front guy for MH17, when technically they should be in the backseat at the most.

    The most striking thing however is the corruption in every freaking facet of the country, it is literally leaking corrosive sludge out of government, its education system, its universities, its defence force, et al. at an alarming rate not to mention they're chewing their prime ministers out like there's no tomorrow. I don't get it to be honest, and it seems to have all happened rather suddenly too.

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:59 am

    Vann7 wrote:and still Almaz-Antey idiots were claiming a Buk-S1 shot down the plane..
    creating doubts about the Russian government investigation that said it was a plane. Putin should hang the bastard of that company who mounted the show saying an old buk missile did it..
    pretty much the colonnel cassad site solved the whole crime.. it was a n SU-25 with a air to air missile. And apparently also there was 30mm cannon gun fire. too.

    Putin should shot the bastard for treason and trying to align with the west fantasy tale
    that Rebels did it with a buk missile.


    They were covering Russia's ass. They said that if it was indeed a Buk, it would be a type Russia did not have in their arsenal but Ukraine had. They never pointed the blame at anyone.

    KoTeMoRe
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3565
    Points : 3600
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:47 am

    Militarov wrote:"U.S. President Barack Obama authorized a deal to send $20 million of sophisticated radar equipment to Ukraine, Business Insider reported Wednesday. The Pentagon had been discussing the radar for months, but it wasn't until a high-profile meeting between Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin that Obama decided to finalize the deal. U.S. President Barack Obama authorized a deal to send $20 million of sophisticated radar equipment to Ukraine, Business Insider reported Wednesday. The Pentagon had been discussing the radar for months, but it wasn't until a high-profile meeting between Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin that Obama decided to finalize the deal.

    The equipment to be provided by the U.S. will be AN/TPQ-36 radar systems that can target the point of origin of missiles from between 18-24 kilometers (11-15 miles) away. The equipment is so precise that it can originate the location of a missile or artillery weapon after a single shot.Nearly 75 percent of the fatalities experienced on the Ukrainian side, according Ukraine's Ministry of Defense, have been because of artillery or missile attacks, and the new radar equipment could be a game changer for the Ukrainian military. The Ukrainian military was attacked by pro-Russian separatists in the Donbass region Wednesday, the Kyiv Post reported. No fatalities have been reported from Wednesday's attack.



    The U.S. decision to send the radar could have very significant consequences for the outcome of the conflict in Ukraine, some experts said. "Washington's willingness to move forward with radars sends a clear signal that the U.S. may consider sending lethal weapons should the Minsk II process fail," said Adrian Karatnycky, an analyst for the Atlantic Council, a defense and security think tank. "In the long term, the West must help Ukraine's arms industry modernize, which can be modeled on the successful efforts undertaken in Poland and other Central European states," Karatnycky said."

    How many is 22mil of these radars idk, some old price from late 90s says one costs 1,5million USD, but that probably different by now.

    Source: http://www.armyrecognition.com/october_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/us_to_send_20$_million_of_sophisticated_radar_an/tpq-36_to_ukraine_4011020152.html

    So they still got single digit numbers of FOB radars? Holy shit, the US is really fvcking with Ukraine.

    auslander
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 861
    Points : 915
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  auslander on Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:31 am

    Yeah, and the good thing is a week after they go feet dry in orcland our boys will have a couple. RF doesn't need one to investigate, they've already got more than one according to rumor, but it will be nice to see one with the NAF logo on it sitting in the middle of a Donetsk square with our boys standing around it and grinning. Remember the brand new tracking system the foreigners had to abandon in Debaltsyevo? On that deal, and at least two units were left behind, I would bet someone's career took a decidedly downward turn.

    JohninMK
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3369
    Points : 3412
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:43 pm

    auslander wrote:Yeah, and the good thing is a week after they go feet dry in orcland our boys will have a couple. RF doesn't need one to investigate, they've already got more than one according to rumor, but it will be nice to see one with the NAF logo on it sitting in the middle of a Donetsk square with our boys standing around it and grinning. Remember the brand new tracking system the foreigners had to abandon in Debaltsyevo? On that deal, and at least two units were left behind, I would bet someone's career took a decidedly downward turn.
    I thought that those units were last generation hand me downs from the US Army.

    higurashihougi
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 2129
    Points : 2244
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Location : A small and cutie S-shaped land.

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:10 pm

    Yes, sanction my *** lol1 lol1

    Probably Kyiv can never get away from "evil Russia". lol!

    http://www.unian.info/economics/1139635-crimea-as-black-hole-for-shadow-re-exports-from-ukraine-to-russia.html

    Crimea as black hole for shadow re-exports from Ukraine to Russia

    Shadow exports from Ukraine to Russia through the territory of the Russian-occupied Crimea amounts to $1-2 billion a year in monetary terms, according to economist Taras Zavgorodniy.

    Khepesh
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1629
    Points : 1698
    Join date : 2015-04-22
    Location : Ахетатон и Уасет

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Khepesh on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:42 pm

    This will be uncomfortable.....
    Gennadiy Dubovoy has said the war is over and that the system, ie the oligarchs and State apparat, have won. https://vk.com/id205292010?w=wall205292010_2755
    Kazzura translated this already http://kazzuraengsubs.tumblr.com/post/130328801891/depressed-by-the-clinical-naivety-of-those-who

    I cleaned Kazzura's translation a little.

    I am depressed by the clinical naivety of those ask everyday, "Gennadiy, why are there no new videos or articles?, what is going on in the Republics?, is this the end of all hope?".
    So I'll answer:
    1. Yes, this is the end, there's nothing to film, the war is over, or, more precisely, we were forced to end it.

    2. What is happening in the Republics? Everything is finished, we fought for restoration of the oligarchs neo-slave system, we were used and anybody who does not play by the system rules will be liquidated.

    3. I'm going to explain points 1 and 2 (if I'm still alive) in a series of essays and analytical articles long promised to various publishers.

    Watch Kassad for further on this I suspect.

    If this is not liked, and I disagree with some of the negativity, then I am sure Dubovoy will welcome comments on his wall.....

    auslander
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 861
    Points : 915
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  auslander on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:52 pm

    I'm not sure about the war being over. The orcs will never do Minsk 1 or 2 agreements, ergo Novorossiya, not being particularly stupid, will not drop their guard. As far as the oligarchs are concerned, there's a lot of armed men running around up there who just won't tolerate that system any more.

    KoTeMoRe
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3565
    Points : 3600
    Join date : 2015-04-21
    Location : Krankhaus Central.

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:55 pm

    auslander wrote:I'm not sure about the war being over. The orcs will never do Minsk 1 or 2 agreements, ergo Novorossiya, not being particularly stupid, will not drop their guard. As far as the oligarchs are concerned, there's a lot of armed men running around up there who just won't tolerate that system any more.

    War is not over, it is frozen. Down the line the country aka Ukraine will pull a Sukashvili and then the war will be over.

    auslander
    Major
    Major

    Posts : 861
    Points : 915
    Join date : 2015-04-25

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  auslander on Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:04 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    auslander wrote:I'm not sure about the war being over. The orcs will never do Minsk 1 or 2 agreements, ergo Novorossiya, not being particularly stupid, will not drop their guard. As far as the oligarchs are concerned, there's a lot of armed men running around up there who just won't tolerate that system any more.

    War is not over, it is frozen. Down the line the country aka Ukraine will pull a Sukashvili and then the war will be over.

    Agreed, the orcs just can't stop and they may try to pull something stupud while everyone is looking at ME.

    Sponsored content

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 3:07 pm


      Current date/time is Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:07 pm