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    The Religion Thread

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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:56 pm

    mack,  this is not exactly true. Judaism stil has no concept of proper "afterlife" (Christian afterlife myths come from Zoroastrianism with possible influences of Greek mythology).

    Though "nothingness" after death is not possible because humans are finite and discrete physical systems that can be recreated endlessly in the multiverse - so while science does not suggest a religious afterlife, it suggests that at the bare minimum you can live on re-runs.

    mack8
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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  mack8 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:04 pm

    I'll bet you it's true (unfortunately, as i said i'm afraid of death too), but we won't ever know who won the bet!

    GarryB
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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:05 pm


    I came here to preach. I thought maybe I would convert. But now I see that your hearts are diseased.

    Does your god speak to you... how do you know we are diseased, lost causes... maybe we are just a serious, significant test and you are failing...

    Funny thing is that you come across sounding like the US.

    We are either with you or we are with the terrorists... it couldn't possibly be we don't care much for religion and think any system of living as alien as the one you describe where we can only talk to people who agree with us already has a future of ignorance and heinous acts of barbarism on those we would be forbidden to get to know.


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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Firebird on Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:00 pm

    Firebird... some of what you said here I found mildly offensive, and the rest was also beneath you.

    Please show some manners, I appreciate you have strong feelings, but keep in mind that abusing other members is against the rules here and that is an important rule that I insist everyone pays attention to.

    You may not agree with the religion of another member but suggesting what you suggested regarding their bible is offensive.

    GarryB

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Abu Bakr al Bosni on Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:36 pm

    I have not and do not plan to harm anyone and my posts are not intended to incite religious violence.

    I'm leaving.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Firebird on Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:54 pm

    Abu Bakr al Bosni wrote:You are wrong. The Prophet (PBUH) waged Jihaad against the disbelievers and the Salaf (first three generations of Muslims) concluded that it's an obligation to wage Jihaad until the rule of Allah (SWT) is over the whole world and His Shari'ah rules every square nanometer of the universe.

    now I see that your hearts are diseased.

    But you don't want to wage religious war?

    So either Is-Sham is bullshit.
    Or you DO want to wage religious war.

    Which one is it?

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:36 pm

    All religions are bullshit in one way or another. At least the Judeo-Christina God managed to undergo a metamorphosis - and from a tyrant he turned into a loving entity.

    But the Islamic God is the most hateful, most vengeful and most bloodthirsty deity that existed on earth - on par with Aztec deities.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  mack8 on Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:07 pm

    I'm leaving.

    If only the christian zealots of whatever sect and subsect will leave too and take away with them (preferably stuffed where the sun doesn't shine) their homophobia, racism, ultra-nationalism and hateful view of everyone else who is not part of their "blessed" subsect, ethicity, town, street corner and so on. Rolling Eyes

    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:17 pm

    Christian zealots? On this forum? Did I overlook something?

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:51 pm

    I have not and do not plan to harm anyone and my posts are not intended to incite religious violence.

    Yet the description you have given describes many of the people here as diseased and deceitful people trying to fool you and those who believe what you believe of the afterlife... we are demons trying to steal your immortal soul... did you expect us to thank you?

    Did you expect us to read a single thread on a familiar forum and suddenly renounce the way we have lived our lives for decades or more and adopt a religion we knew little about?

    Nobody likes being told what to think, and anyone who converts to a religion this way would covert the next day to praying to whatever god is on the back of their breakfast cereal box tomorrow morning...

    I'm leaving.

    If your only purpose here was to educate us heathens, then it might be a good idea to leave as you will be facing an uphill battle that would take very thick skin on your part with no good likelyhood of success.

    If you are interested in Russia then, how about turning down the religious stuff a notch and stay and chat about what interests you.

    Your call.


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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:48 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:All religions are bullshit in one way or another. At least the Judeo-Christina God managed to undergo a metamorphosis - and from a tyrant he turned into a loving entity.

    But the Islamic God is the most hateful, most vengeful and most bloodthirsty deity that existed on earth - on par with Aztec deities.

    Facepalm and a tripple one...

    Loving entity of Christian and JUDEO god? The god that calls Jews GODs Chosen People and the rests are savages on earth to be ruled by jews? The god that demands stoning of disobidient wives, homos and purge and genocide of 25+ mln people... .loving my ass.

    For imbeciles that still have no jackshit clue about religion

    Jews believe in JEHOVA jewish god invented by jews.
    Christians another Abrahamic religion, Abrahams christian son believes in JEHOVA aswell a jewish invented god.
    Muslims pray to again JEHOVA a jewish god for a religion that is again Abrahamic sons Islam.

    All those pray to the same god, except that only one of this group calls itself GODs people. If there is a bloodthirsty god than it is the most bloodthirsty shitgod that is described in Talmud, he demands in Noah's Laws that Rabbis fuck little girls when they become 3 years and one day old. Pedophilia of the worst kinds.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Fred333 on Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:18 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Christian zealots? On this forum? Did I overlook something?

    the homophobia is pretty st000ng here and there, but I am not sure if you can reduce it to just christian zealotry...

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:51 am

    the homophobia is pretty st000ng here and there, but I am not sure if you can reduce it to just christian zealotry...

    There are no threads demanding all ... whatever they call themselves today must kill themselves or be killed.

    There are threads that say the west uses pro gay agenda to punish Russia... but then they use all sorts of agendas to put Russia down so that is nothing special... they use NGOs to undermine democracy and then when Russia cracks down on NGOs they claim it is undemocratic... Rolling Eyes

    There are threads that support Putin when he puts through laws to prevent pro gay preaching to children.

    I don't see how that is anti gay.

    I like the way people here are allowed to discuss the issues without being banned or censored... as long as they follow the rules.

    The amusing thing is that anti gay beliefs are actually very strong in the US of A and many christian conservatives would make this forum look pro gay and sound a lot like our new Islamic friend on the issue... assuming you replace non believer with gay person.

    And, while Russia is abused for not being "pro gay" Saudi Arabia's policy on gay people is totally ignored... would love to see Madonna and Lady Gaga and other celebrities having a mass gay parade for all their gay friends in Saudi Arabia.

    It would be a blood bath. But it is Russia that is homophobic of course.

    Gays and Women have fought for a long time in the west for "equal rights" and recognition for their cause and seem to think that equates to global acceptance around the world when they get it... both are wrong. Try talking to the Taleban about civil rights for women...

    Ironically women have probably had better civil rights in the Soviet Union than in the west... when so many men are killed in war then women have to step up... and they did.


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    Walther von Oldenburg
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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:13 am

    In the New Testament there are between 3 and 4 verses that are homophobic - not a big number, eh? None of them comes from Jesus (they come from St. Paul) and none of them prescribes mistreatment of gays in this world.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:55 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:In the New Testament there are between 3 and 4 verses that are homophobic - not a big number, eh? None of them comes from Jesus (they come from St. Paul) and none of them prescribes mistreatment of gays in this world.

    It does not matter, the book says BLACK ON WHITE: IF a man lies down with another men he shall be stoned. You do not need 1000 phrases to say the same. Bible demands killing of homosexuals, fact, not so peace loving god or christianity you have like you ignorant want to put it and portray Islam as the only violant religion. All Abrahamic religions are disgusting to the core.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:01 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:In the New Testament there are between 3 and 4 verses that are homophobic - not a big number, eh? None of them comes from Jesus (they come from St. Paul) and none of them prescribes mistreatment of gays in this world.

    It does not matter, the book says BLACK ON WHITE: IF a man lies down with another men he shall be stoned. You do not  need 1000 phrases to say the same. Bible demands killing of homosexuals, fact, not so peace loving god or christianity you have like you ignorant want to put it and portray Islam as the only violant religion. All Abrahamic religions are disgusting to the core.
    You just show your ignorance.

    All these bloody laws from the Old Testament were abrogated by Jesus. I repeat -abrogated. They're no longer in force just as the Nuremberg Laws are no longer in force in Germany.

    You may not have noticed- but even Jews don't practice this old law anymore. And this has nothing to do with some misinterpretation of Judaism - in Antiquity when Jews still "practiced" these laws, death penalty was a rare occurence.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:23 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:In the New Testament there are between 3 and 4 verses that are homophobic - not a big number, eh? None of them comes from Jesus (they come from St. Paul) and none of them prescribes mistreatment of gays in this world.

    It does not matter, the book says BLACK ON WHITE: IF a man lies down with another men he shall be stoned. You do not  need 1000 phrases to say the same. Bible demands killing of homosexuals, fact, not so peace loving god or christianity you have like you ignorant want to put it and portray Islam as the only violant religion. All Abrahamic religions are disgusting to the core.
    You just show your ignorance.

    All these bloody laws from the Old Testament were abrogated by Jesus. I repeat -abrogated. They're no longer in force just as the Nuremberg Laws are no longer in force in Germany.

    You may not have noticed- but even Jews don't practice this old law anymore. And this has nothing to do with some misinterpretation of Judaism - in Antiquity when Jews still "practiced" these laws, death penalty was a rare occurence.


    The jews practice this old law they are called ULTRAORTHODOX TAlmud jews. Every Israeli child by LAW has to go to Talmudic schools. Talmud that teaches exactly this and far worse horseshit a religion and mentally ill people could somehow come up with their fucked up minds.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:48 pm

    Werewolf wrote:The jews practice this old law they are called ULTRAORTHODOX TAlmud jews. Every Israeli child by LAW has to go to Talmudic schools. Talmud that teaches exactly this and far worse horseshit a religion and mentally ill people could somehow come up with their fucked up minds.
    Yeah, I know that this is in Talmud and that Jewish kids learn those laws. But devil is in the details and superficial appearances are often misleading.

    First - under Talmudic law death penalty for ANY offence (murder, homosexuality or whatever) can only be carried out by the Sanhedrin - the highest Jewish court in Jerusalem which has been defunct since 70 AD - so if Jews don't reinstitute it, there will be no authority to implement this punishment. And today, there is none.

    Second - procedural requirements that must be met for the penalty to be implemented  are so freakingly strict that it's next to impossible to convict anyone.
    There are requirements that must be met:
    1. Before committing the offense the offender was approached by two kosher witnesses who'd warned him that the act he was about to do is a crime. The warning must include info that it's a capital crime and some say that it must also include information about the specific method of execution. The witnesses must be adult men known to have never sinned in public and they cannot be related to the criminal. When the criminal is caught after or during committing the crime, death penalty cannot be implemented
    2. The offender stated that he'd heard the warning and understood it.
    3. The witnesses then said "shalom lecha rabbi" which takes about three seconds. If the offender committed the crime within those 3 seconds, he can be punished. If more time passed - death penalty cannot be given

    Imagine the following situation - you're about to commit an act of sodomy. Two witnesses approach you and tell you to not do this because you may get killed, you say you heard the warning but gonna do that anyway and you then commit the crime within like 3 seconds... How probable is this situation in the real world!? But all those criteria must be met just to have the POSSIBILITY of giving you death penalty! Yeah, that's not enough

    4. The court (Sanhedrin in Jerusalem which does not exist) has to have a minimum of twenty three judges. (In Jerusalem there were three courts- but only the great Sanhedrin of 72 judges heard capital cases). In front of the judges there are three rows of disciples with the most seniour disciples at the back, closest to the judges. They have to be there for the entire case and if a judge dies, one would be elevated to replace him.
    5. The witnesses are asked two sets of questions - one which establishes the facts such as when, where, how etc, the other based on their observations. Any discrepancy would render their testimony invalid. Witnesses would be reluclant to speak out - if they were proven to be deliberately lying, they could be sentenced to the same punishment as the person they accused.
    5. The judges would deliberate- While deliberating a judge that argued for innocence could not then raise an argument to find them guilty - a judge who had argued they were guilty, could raise an argument that they were innocent (after which he could not raise further arguments for their guilt). The most juniour judge would put their arguments across first and then it would continue in order of reverse seniority so that people would not be worried about contradicting the more seniour judges after they had spoken
    6. The disciples could raise an argument to find the defendant innocent, but could not argue for his guilt. A disciple that raised an argument would be temporarily elevated to the position of judge.
    7. When a vote is finally taken only a majority of one is needed for innocence, but a majority of two needed for guilt. But if they all vote for guilt, the defendant is aquitted (because that means something is wrong with the court)

    I say with 100% certainity that if I was to be tried for a capital offense by the Sanhedrin vs by some court in Texas, I would choose the Sanhedin.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:18 pm

    All Israeli children go to Talmudic schools?

    This just goes to show what a delusional character Werewolf actually is.
    What about the Israeli Arab children? Or the Druze children? Or non-Jewish Russian children?

    Most of Israel's schools are not religious but state-run and secular, as I understand it. I'm sure they have some religious lessons there but it's hardly the same as an actual Talmud school.

    And yes you do have ultra-Orthodox in Israel, whom the state leaves mostly alone it seems (there have been more than enough riots and civil disorders); with their own schools, social order, deferment from service in the army and so on.
    In thes same way as you have Wahhabist sects in Islamic countries, Christian conservatives, Amish and Mormons in America, Cossacks in Russia's south, and you used to have the same religious nutjobs in Europe too; many of whom were ultimately chased out to America.

    Of course the British being the resourceful empire-builders that they are, had their own unique solution for this problem and decided to kill two birds with one stone - which was to simply send the Scottish Presbytarian whackos to settle in Ireland so that the native Catholics and Protestant fundamentalists start killing each other; which they've been doing for over 400 years now and still do to this day in fact.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:31 pm

    One way or the other, neither Christians* nor Jews (including the ultraorthodox ones) practice stoning gays. So Werewolf's previous comments are wildly inaccurate

    *There is an obscure branch of Calvinism (called "Christian Reconstructionism") represented by some ~10 minor theologians that says all of these bloody laws from the Old Testament are still applicable. The entire "movement" failed to find any significant following even among other radical Calvinists. It's enough to see that in the US (apparently world's hub of Christian "extremism") not a single church has taken Reconstructionism as it's official position.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:35 pm

    It's so quiet out there... Laughing

    Werewolf... hello? Are you there? Have you given up on your claims that Jews stone gays?

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:16 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:It's so quiet out there... Laughing

    Werewolf... hello? Are you there? Have you given up on your claims that Jews stone gays?

    Little time under the week, will replay to your retardation on the weekend.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:29 pm

    So what part do you disagree with? I described the criminal procedure for death penalty outlined exactly as it is in Talmudic literature. It takes pure idiocy to beliece that these old laws from the Old Testament constitute a threat to human rights when both theory and practice shows us that it's not the case at all.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Regular on Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:46 pm

    Guys, better join me and start practicing paganism.
    Instead of going to church we go camping, going to banyas/sauna and drinking bear while eating roasted boars Very Happy
    Beat that Islam

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Fred333 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:51 am

    Regular wrote:Guys, better join me and start practicing paganism.
    Instead of going to church we go camping, going to banyas/sauna and drinking bear while eating roasted boars Very Happy
    Beat that Islam

    So what's your policy towards human sacrifices? pirat

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