The Religion Thread

mack,  this is not exactly true. Judaism stil has no concept of proper "afterlife" (Christian afterlife myths come from Zoroastrianism with possible influences of Greek mythology).

Though "nothingness" after death is not possible because humans are finite and discrete physical systems that can be recreated endlessly in the multiverse - so while science does not suggest a religious afterlife, it suggests that at the bare minimum you can live on re-runs.

All religions are bullshit in one way or another. At least the Judeo-Christina God managed to undergo a metamorphosis - and from a tyrant he turned into a loving entity.

But the Islamic God is the most hateful, most vengeful and most bloodthirsty deity that existed on earth - on par with Aztec deities.

Christian zealots? On this forum? Did I overlook something?

In the New Testament there are between 3 and 4 verses that are homophobic - not a big number, eh? None of them comes from Jesus (they come from St. Paul) and none of them prescribes mistreatment of gays in this world.

Werewolf wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:In the New Testament there are between 3 and 4 verses that are homophobic - not a big number, eh? None of them comes from Jesus (they come from St. Paul) and none of them prescribes mistreatment of gays in this world.

It does not matter, the book says BLACK ON WHITE: IF a man lies down with another men he shall be stoned. You do not  need 1000 phrases to say the same. Bible demands killing of homosexuals, fact, not so peace loving god or christianity you have like you ignorant want to put it and portray Islam as the only violant religion. All Abrahamic religions are disgusting to the core.

You just show your ignorance.

All these bloody laws from the Old Testament were abrogated by Jesus. I repeat -abrogated. They're no longer in force just as the Nuremberg Laws are no longer in force in Germany.

You may not have noticed- but even Jews don't practice this old law anymore. And this has nothing to do with some misinterpretation of Judaism - in Antiquity when Jews still "practiced" these laws, death penalty was a rare occurence.

Werewolf wrote:The jews practice this old law they are called ULTRAORTHODOX TAlmud jews. Every Israeli child by LAW has to go to Talmudic schools. Talmud that teaches exactly this and far worse horseshit a religion and mentally ill people could somehow come up with their fucked up minds.

Yeah, I know that this is in Talmud and that Jewish kids learn those laws. But devil is in the details and superficial appearances are often misleading.

First - under Talmudic law death penalty for ANY offence (murder, homosexuality or whatever) can only be carried out by the Sanhedrin - the highest Jewish court in Jerusalem which has been defunct since 70 AD - so if Jews don't reinstitute it, there will be no authority to implement this punishment. And today, there is none.

Second - procedural requirements that must be met for the penalty to be implemented  are so freakingly strict that it's next to impossible to convict anyone.
There are requirements that must be met:
1. Before committing the offense the offender was approached by two kosher witnesses who'd warned him that the act he was about to do is a crime. The warning must include info that it's a capital crime and some say that it must also include information about the specific method of execution. The witnesses must be adult men known to have never sinned in public and they cannot be related to the criminal. When the criminal is caught after or during committing the crime, death penalty cannot be implemented
2. The offender stated that he'd heard the warning and understood it.
3. The witnesses then said "shalom lecha rabbi" which takes about three seconds. If the offender committed the crime within those 3 seconds, he can be punished. If more time passed - death penalty cannot be given

Imagine the following situation - you're about to commit an act of sodomy. Two witnesses approach you and tell you to not do this because you may get killed, you say you heard the warning but gonna do that anyway and you then commit the crime within like 3 seconds... How probable is this situation in the real world!? But all those criteria must be met just to have the POSSIBILITY of giving you death penalty! Yeah, that's not enough

4. The court (Sanhedrin in Jerusalem which does not exist) has to have a minimum of twenty three judges. (In Jerusalem there were three courts- but only the great Sanhedrin of 72 judges heard capital cases). In front of the judges there are three rows of disciples with the most seniour disciples at the back, closest to the judges. They have to be there for the entire case and if a judge dies, one would be elevated to replace him.
5. The witnesses are asked two sets of questions - one which establishes the facts such as when, where, how etc, the other based on their observations. Any discrepancy would render their testimony invalid. Witnesses would be reluclant to speak out - if they were proven to be deliberately lying, they could be sentenced to the same punishment as the person they accused.
5. The judges would deliberate- While deliberating a judge that argued for innocence could not then raise an argument to find them guilty - a judge who had argued they were guilty, could raise an argument that they were innocent (after which he could not raise further arguments for their guilt). The most juniour judge would put their arguments across first and then it would continue in order of reverse seniority so that people would not be worried about contradicting the more seniour judges after they had spoken
6. The disciples could raise an argument to find the defendant innocent, but could not argue for his guilt. A disciple that raised an argument would be temporarily elevated to the position of judge.
7. When a vote is finally taken only a majority of one is needed for innocence, but a majority of two needed for guilt. But if they all vote for guilt, the defendant is aquitted (because that means something is wrong with the court)

I say with 100% certainity that if I was to be tried for a capital offense by the Sanhedrin vs by some court in Texas, I would choose the Sanhedin.

One way or the other, neither Christians* nor Jews (including the ultraorthodox ones) practice stoning gays. So Werewolf's previous comments are wildly inaccurate

*There is an obscure branch of Calvinism (called "Christian Reconstructionism") represented by some ~10 minor theologians that says all of these bloody laws from the Old Testament are still applicable. The entire "movement" failed to find any significant following even among other radical Calvinists. It's enough to see that in the US (apparently world's hub of Christian "extremism") not a single church has taken Reconstructionism as it's official position.

It's so quiet out there...

Werewolf... hello? Are you there? Have you given up on your claims that Jews stone gays?

So what part do you disagree with? I described the criminal procedure for death penalty outlined exactly as it is in Talmudic literature. It takes pure idiocy to beliece that these old laws from the Old Testament constitute a threat to human rights when both theory and practice shows us that it's not the case at all.