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    Cowboy's daughter
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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:12 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    Cowboy's daughter wrote:I am a Christian, non-denominational. Which means I don't prefer any denomination. Since I was almost 29 years old. I've gone to all kinds of churches: home fellowships; African American Baptist; fellowshiped with the Methodist African Americans; Mexican-Spanish speaking only, no English; Spanish- preaching in Spanish, but translated by a translator into English (That was amazing.), churches with Anglos, Asians, African-Americans. churches with African Americans and Anglos (like that where I attend now) ...any where I want to attend, including Catholic. ....I once had a dream that I was in a church where myself and other Anglo, Mexican, & perhaps African-American women were kneeling and praying. I worked at a doctor's clinic at the time with an Anglo woman who was Catholic, and a Mexican woman who was Catholic. I went to work and told them what I'd dreamed. The Anglo woman told me she had heard that dream before.  Shocked Anyway, it was near Christmas, and the 3 of us went to midnight mass at a little Catholic church in Dublin, Tx. It was amazing.

    May I call that Ecumenism ? Question Question Idea


    noun: ecumenism

    the principle or aim of promoting unity among the world's Christian churches.

    ....I wouldn't say that's my aim. Just that if I have Jesus and you have Jesus, then we're brother and sister, or sisters. in Christ, so it makes no difference to me. I don't look at where churches disagree, but at what Christians from different denominations have in common.

    For example I went to a home fellowship in a small town. After so long, the persons had a disagreement and split into two different groups /churches. I stayed with the original altho the Pastor changed. But we used to have church at the African American Baptist church, and anyone who wanted to came to that.....and at least once a month, all of us, and also the African American Methodist church in that town, would get together, and all the women would cook and we'd have a big meal at either the AME, or African American Baptist. I wasn't a Methodist, and I wasn't a Baptist, I wasn't any denomination, but we all were Christians.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:24 pm

    Agnostic.

    I dont think anyone has the ultimate evidence to prove something as such exists or doesnt exist. Mankind is far too early and simple, as we barely know our own oceans (roughly 11% is known) and we dont really know much even within our solar system. So to say that we know that something exists or not, is simply silly.

    But, if anything, I am closer to a believer than not. Simply for the idea that nothing could have created something. So God's entity could be anything that acted as the catylist.

    Anyway, for the sake of mankind, and the good people out there (including my family and especially my daughter), hope there is some form of an afterlife. Scares me beyond reason to think there isnt, as I never want to be separated from my little girl.

    My wife is Hindu, and her beliefe stands that I am to be with her for 7 lives. I am OK with that.

    The song from Iron Maiden - Infinite Dreams comes to mind when thinking about this.


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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  victor1985 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:47 pm

    basicly any religion is a lie. stories maked to manipulate people. religous people say that all those lies have a well intention purpose. my believe is that humans should be simply humans and no experiments like religion be make. in other words religion give fear stress and unnecessary shame to people they must stay as they are even that that means they are a bit crazy

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:48 pm

    victor1985 wrote:basicly any religion is a lie. stories maked to manipulate people. religous people say that all those lies have a well intention purpose. my believe is that humans should be simply humans and no experiments like religion be make. in other words religion give fear stress and unnecessary shame to people they must stay as they are even that that means they are a bit crazy

    this is Lenin's also opinion for religion Very Happy


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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:49 pm

    So Jesus invented Christianity in order to manipulate people? Rolling Eyes

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  victor1985 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:49 pm

    well do you hate communism?

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  George1 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:52 pm

    victor1985 wrote:well do you hate communism?

    no i just make a reference


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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  victor1985 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:53 pm

    others invented jesus. he was just a fake person. all make for foul people. its all about control of mases. i believe that people should keep own points of view and doubt and opinions so there be less chances to be manipulated

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:58 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:So Jesus invented Christianity in order to manipulate people? Rolling Eyes

    Looks like you and I might be in the minority thus far Walther. Very Happy

    Yeah, what about that "whosoever will". Very Happy i.e. c h o i c e.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:04 pm

    victor1985 wrote:basicly any religion is a lie. stories maked to manipulate people. religous people say that all those lies have a well intention purpose. my believe is that humans should be simply humans and no experiments like religion be make. in other words religion give fear stress and unnecessary shame to people they must stay as they are even that that means they are a bit crazy

    That religion manipulates persons is a fact. That religion gives fear, stress, and unnecessary shame to people is a fact.

    I can't imagine how many persons, millions and millions of persons just in North, Central, and South America, have been murdered in the name of "Christianity", but that didn't make what the murders called Christianity (being Christ's disciple) Christianity (being Christ's disciple).


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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:49 pm

    victor1985 wrote:others invented jesus. he was just a fake person. all make for foul people. its all about control of mases. i believe that people should keep own points of view and doubt and opinions so there be less chances to be manipulated

    Jesus as a man was indeed real. The rest are questionable.  All one has to do is look up the head scribe or whatever they were called of the grand library of Rome. It was roughly 20 years after Pontus Pilotus was ruler of Judaia (sp?) And the new head of the library does a journal or biography of the rulers of Romes provinces. It stated roughly under Pilots rule of Judaia, he had a total of 150 or so crusifixions. One mentioned also Jesus being one of them (at that time, he stated as a person of the people or along those lines).  This was 20 years after Pilots rule that it was written.

    Edit: OK, so more than 20 years but: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

    Tacitus writtings are both authentic and good insight by a none christian (at that time, they were still paegons).

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  jka on Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:17 pm

    Says that Jesus goes on water the same like hockey stars can play on water ice.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  jka on Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:25 pm

    Nobody of Gud, Jesus and Jumala help me with believe so I like satanism plus Lucifer in Dark hell.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:49 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Agnostic.

    I dont think anyone has the ultimate evidence to prove something as such exists or doesnt exist. Mankind is far too early and simple, as we barely know our own oceans (roughly 11% is known) and we dont really know much even within our solar system. So to say that we know that something exists or not, is simply silly.

    But, if anything, I am closer to a believer than not. Simply for the idea that nothing could have created something. So God's entity could be anything that acted as the catylist.

    Anyway, for the sake of mankind, and the good people out there (including my family and especially my daughter), hope there is some form of an afterlife. Scares me beyond reason to think there isnt, as I never want to be separated from my little girl.

    My wife is Hindu, and her beliefe stands that I am to be with her for 7 lives. I am OK with that.

    The song from Iron Maiden - Infinite Dreams comes to mind when thinking about this.



    Like someone said, Agnostics are Atheists without balls.

    I have a purple invisible petrofied dragon that is invisible, he made all things and is almighty, no one can see him who has not enough faith he has nobody if he chooses to, he is omnipotent his son (spyro) was boiled in water on a cross and was resurrected by Cpt. Napalm three days after to take world's burden and sins on him.

    Try to disproof that now you are an agnostic to insivible purple dragon named Cpt. Napalm!

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  victor1985 on Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:32 pm

    [quote="sepheronx"][quote="victor1985"]others invented jesus. he was just a fake person. all make for foul people. its all about control of mases. i believe that people should keep own points of view and doubt and opinions so there be less chances to be manipulated [/quote]

    Jesus as a man was indeed real. The rest are questionable.  All one has to do is look up the head scribe or whatever they were called of the grand library of Rome. It was roughly 20 years after Pontus Pilotus was ruler of Judaia (sp?) And the new head of the library does a journal or biography of the rulers of Romes provinces. It stated roughly under Pilots rule of Judaia, he had a total of 150 or so crusifixions. One mentioned also Jesus being one of them (at that time, he stated as a person of the people or along those lines).  This was 20 years after Pilots rule that it was written.

    Edit: OK, so more than 20 years but: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

    Tacitus writtings are both authentic and good insight by a none christian (at that time, they were still paegons).[/quote]



    i  dont know why some people make jesus a hero or something. his facts are questionable. why the people simply dont see the exageration of religion upon jesus is a question for me. i think that all bad things in humans are just parts of them make by genetics to help in some cases. for example being selfish mai prevent you to be fooled by people too easy so there is a nice part in those bad feelings

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  victor1985 on Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:34 pm

    [quote="jka"]Rappers are against Metal fans but fights never happens me.

    Metal and Hard Rock are Satan music.

    I am likers of Satanism when I listening on Metal bands.

    Plus Iron Maiden have The Devil on picture.[/quote]



    you look like need action.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:31 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:I create this thread so that we can discuss everything related to religions and broadly understood religiosity.

    So - do adhere to a specific religion? DO you believe in God(s)? If yes, what religion is it and if not, what religions you like the most?

    I actually really like my religion (Orthodox Christianity).

    There is a lot of good stuff in this particular flavour of Christian faith:

    -no conflict between science and religion. Even stem cell research and cloning is allowed with some restrictions and provided cloned cells are not used for reproduction.

    -church is perfectly OK with condoms, birth control pills and other contraceptives. Abortion is stil a no-no of course.

    -you have right for up to 4 divorces. I did not even know about this until recently. Fun fact: ceremony you get from priest on your fourth wedding is pretty much all fire & brimstone. lol1

    -priest can hear your confession but is not authorised to give you forgiveness. That is left up to God. You get forgiveness from God if you truly repent. How do you know if you did? That is between you and God. Deep stuff. Priest is there just as your ''legal advisor''

    -if you disagree with your priest you can tell him to stuff it and not be worried about God being angry at you.

    -you don't go to hell for every litlle mistake.

    Not bad overall. I still think it is a bit too hippie (turn the other cheek part is really heavily emphasized) but hey, you can't win everything... thumbsup

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:01 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:I create this thread so that we can discuss everything related to religions and broadly understood religiosity.

    So - do adhere to a specific religion? DO you believe in God(s)? If yes, what religion is it and if not, what religions you like the most?

    I actually really like my religion (Orthodox Christianity).

    There is a lot of good stuff in this particular flavour of Christian faith:

    -no conflict between science and religion. Even stem cell research and cloning is allowed with some restrictions and provided cloned cells are not used for reproduction.

    -church is perfectly OK with condoms, birth control pills and other contraceptives. Abortion is stil a no-no of course.

    -you have right for up to 4 divorces. I did not even know about this until recently. Fun fact: ceremony you get from priest on your fourth wedding is pretty much all fire & brimstone. lol1

    -priest can hear your confession but is not authorised to give you forgiveness. That is left up to God. You get forgiveness from God if you truly repent. How do you know if you did? That is between you and God. Deep stuff. Priest is there just as your ''legal advisor''

    -if you disagree with your priest you can tell him to stuff it and not be worried about God being angry at you.

    -you don't go to hell for every litlle mistake.

    Not bad overall. I still think it is a bit too hippie (turn the other cheek part is really heavily emphasized) but hey, you can't win everything... thumbsup

    Very Happy @ ceremony from Priest on 4'th wedding.

    Different denominations, and different Christians, after the basics, believe different things, but this is the

    "gospel" i.e. "good news":
    Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
    And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    What is "sins"?
    sins: 266
    aJmartiva Hamartia (ham-ar-tee'-ah);
    Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 266


    equivalent to 264
    to be without a share in
    to miss the mark
    to err, be mistaken
    to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
    to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
    that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
    collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many




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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:38 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Agnostic.

    I dont think anyone has the ultimate evidence to prove something as such exists or doesnt exist. Mankind is far too early and simple, as we barely know our own oceans (roughly 11% is known) and we dont really know much even within our solar system. So to say that we know that something exists or not, is simply silly.

    But, if anything, I am closer to a believer than not. Simply for the idea that nothing could have created something. So God's entity could be anything that acted as the catylist.

    Anyway, for the sake of mankind, and the good people out there (including my family and especially my daughter), hope there is some form of an afterlife. Scares me beyond reason to think there isnt, as I never want to be separated from my little girl.

    My wife is Hindu, and her beliefe stands that I am to be with her for 7 lives. I am OK with that.

    The song from Iron Maiden - Infinite Dreams comes to mind when thinking about this.



    Like someone said, Agnostics are Atheists without balls.

    I have a purple invisible petrofied dragon that is invisible, he made all things and is almighty, no one can see him who has not enough faith he has nobody if he chooses to, he is omnipotent his son (spyro) was boiled in water on a cross and was resurrected by Cpt. Napalm three days after to take world's burden and sins on him.

    Try to disproof that now you are an agnostic to insivible purple dragon named Cpt. Napalm!

    I know you like to antagonize everyone but let us look at it this way.

    Nearly every religion on this earth, be it with contact of people who we had through the ages, or only recently (various Tribes) all believe in a certain god.  Be it one god.  The rest are indicated as demi gods (Hindu religion and other Paegan religions).  What I am getting at is, there is always the belief of spirituality and as well (In Hinduism and such, there is the Big guy, and then his underlings).

    People have faith that dark matter exists but we have not discovered it.  So are scientists just as delusional then to you?  We barely know what is happening in our universe.  We don't even know who we are as a species and we have no real idea other than hypothesis as to our origins.  To say what is certain, is simply fooling ourselves.  I am at the moment of a crisis regarding faith.  I have my faith, to a certain degree.  I cannot follow it blindly though.  I guess the Orthodoxy belief is quite something (good), but I think Hindu's may have it right, since it is indeed the oldest and longest surviving religion.

    We are dead certain that the Big Bang happened, without a lick of evidence or proof of the matter.  Simply put, some people believe there was nothing, then something.  Others believe there was a universe before this.  I myself think this universe was always here, and will always be here.  And that it will keep spitting out planets and solar systems forever.  Nothing will change and even if Humanity perishes, there could very well be something else.  Maybe we are alone in the Universe.  Maybe we are not?  No evidence.  No Proof, but we are fooling ourselves in pretending to be dead certain.

    I think we, as man, are living in a period of being overtly confident in ourselves.  We think with the internet and at least the ability that we went to the moon and launched some satellites to Mars, that we know it all.  But what we really know is nearly nothing and the hypothesis keep changing.  And always will. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. So what happens to our energy? Transforms. But to what? Who knows. We wont know till we die. Maybe nothing happens. Maybe it will be like sleeping for all eternity. I am OK with that too (as I wouldn't be capable of knowing any better anyway), although, I don't wish it as I would rather be able to spend eternity with my loved ones.

    jka wrote:Rappers are against Metal fans but fights never happens me.

    Metal and Hard Rock are Satan music.

    I am likers of Satanism when I listening on Metal bands.

    Plus Iron Maiden have The Devil on picture.

    Eddie isnt a depiction of the morning star.  He is just a mascot.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:10 am

    sepheronx wrote:Anyway, for the sake of mankind, and the good people out there (including my family and especially my daughter), hope there is some form of an afterlife. Scares me beyond reason to think there isnt, as I never want to be separated from my little girl. My wife is Hindu, and her beliefe stands that I am to be with her for 7 lives. I am OK with that.

    Well actually most of us human believe in afterlife, even some atheists. I mean, I know some atheists who disbelieve in God but they believe in afterlife and past life which are governed by certain scientific rules Question  Question  Idea .

    sepheronx wrote:I know you like to antagonize everyone but let us look at it this way.

    Nearly every religion on this earth, be it with contact of people who we had through the ages, or only recently (various Tribes) all believe in a certain god.  Be it one god.  The rest are indicated as demi gods (Hindu religion and other Paegan religions).  What I am getting at is, there is always the belief of spirituality and as well (In Hinduism and such, there is the Big guy, and then his underlings).

    Oh yes, of course because we all are descendants of the ancient prehistoric people at the time science knowledge is nearly zero, and everybody didn't have any idea about the reason of mysterious phenomenon. The easiest answer is that Mr. ABCXYZ did it.

    That mindset has been passed down from generations to generations for thousand of years, while science has just been risen for a very brief time recently.

    Beside the issue of scientific knowledge, religion also provides us a promise about an Almighty Great Man who can protect us from whatever unkind things happened and a Safe Haven for us to live happily with our beloved people... after we die, though.

    That is the reason why religion is so attractive till today. Just like Marx said, religion is opium for the people, a mean to ease the pain. But opium is addictive and it should be use carefully with the instruction of a good doctor.

    sepheronx wrote:People have faith that dark matter exists but we have not discovered it. So are scientists just as delusional then to you?  We barely know what is happening in our universe.  We don't even know who we are as a species and we have no real idea other than hypothesis as to our origins.  To say what is certain, is simply fooling ourselves.  I am at the moment of a crisis regarding faith.  I have my faith, to a certain degree.  I cannot follow it blindly though.  I guess the Orthodoxy belief is quite something (good), but I think Hindu's may have it right, since it is indeed the oldest and longest surviving religion

    We don't see it but there are scientific evidences imply that dark matter exists.

    Just like we cannot see a black hole but there are scientific evidences prove that there is a black hole exists over there.

    The difference between scientific faith and religious faith is that, scientific faith is based on fresh experiences, proofs, evidences, logic. While religious faith is based on religious scriptures and adherent's emotion.

    sepheronx wrote:I think we, as man, are living in a period of being overtly confident in ourselves.  We think with the internet and at least the ability that we went to the moon and launched some satellites to Mars, that we know it all.  But what we really know is nearly nothing and the hypothesis keep changing.  And always will.  Energy cannot be created nor destroyed.  So what happens to our energy?  Transforms.  But to what?  Who knows.  We wont know till we die.  Maybe nothing happens.  Maybe it will be like sleeping for all eternity.

    And the very reason who causes the constant changes of hypothesis is scientific evidences. Evidences, proofs which are discovered by scientific methods cause the change of hypothesis, help us to realize and fix our misunderstanding, and discover new things that we have not known yet.

    It is clear that there is countless things that we have not known yet. But we cannot use God to explain these things.

    And even if there really is a God, His existence should also be proved by science.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Prince Darling on Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:50 am

    can anyone provide me with some real data on % of ateists/agnostics/nonbelievers in comparison to religious people in russia (hopefully pre fall of soviet union, just for the russian republic in that case).

    i am really interested to see where have all the atheists gone Very Happy

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:53 pm

    Prince Darling wrote:can anyone provide me with some real data on % of ateists/agnostics/nonbelievers in comparison to religious people in russia (hopefully pre fall of soviet union, just for the russian republic in that case).

    i am really interested to see where have all the atheists gone Very Happy
    I don't have the numbers, but there is still a lot of atheists in Russia, though their number have surely dwindled in the last 25 years.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:55 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:Anyway, for the sake of mankind, and the good people out there (including my family and especially my daughter), hope there is some form of an afterlife. Scares me beyond reason to think there isnt, as I never want to be separated from my little girl. My wife is Hindu, and her beliefe stands that I am to be with her for 7 lives. I am OK with that.

    Well actually most of us human believe in afterlife, even some atheists. I mean, I know some atheists who disbelieve in God but they believe in afterlife and past life which are governed by certain scientific rules Question  Question  Idea .

    sepheronx wrote:I know you like to antagonize everyone but let us look at it this way.

    Nearly every religion on this earth, be it with contact of people who we had through the ages, or only recently (various Tribes) all believe in a certain god.  Be it one god.  The rest are indicated as demi gods (Hindu religion and other Paegan religions).  What I am getting at is, there is always the belief of spirituality and as well (In Hinduism and such, there is the Big guy, and then his underlings).

    Oh yes, of course because we all are descendants of the ancient prehistoric people at the time science knowledge is nearly zero, and everybody didn't have any idea about the reason of mysterious phenomenon. The easiest answer is that Mr. ABCXYZ did it.

    That mindset has been passed down from generations to generations for thousand of years, while science has just been risen for a very brief time recently.

    Beside the issue of scientific knowledge, religion also provides us a promise about an Almighty Great Man who can protect us from whatever unkind things happened and a Safe Haven for us to live happily with our beloved people... after we die, though.

    That is the reason why religion is so attractive till today. Just like Marx said, religion is opium for the people, a mean to ease the pain. But opium is addictive and it should be use carefully with the instruction of a good doctor.

    sepheronx wrote:People have faith that dark matter exists but we have not discovered it. So are scientists just as delusional then to you?  We barely know what is happening in our universe.  We don't even know who we are as a species and we have no real idea other than hypothesis as to our origins.  To say what is certain, is simply fooling ourselves.  I am at the moment of a crisis regarding faith.  I have my faith, to a certain degree.  I cannot follow it blindly though.  I guess the Orthodoxy belief is quite something (good), but I think Hindu's may have it right, since it is indeed the oldest and longest surviving religion

    We don't see it but there are scientific evidences imply that dark matter exists.

    Just like we cannot see a black hole but there are scientific evidences prove that there is a black hole exists over there.

    The difference between scientific faith and religious faith is that, scientific faith is based on fresh experiences, proofs, evidences, logic. While religious faith is based on religious scriptures and adherent's emotion.

    sepheronx wrote:I think we, as man, are living in a period of being overtly confident in ourselves.  We think with the internet and at least the ability that we went to the moon and launched some satellites to Mars, that we know it all.  But what we really know is nearly nothing and the hypothesis keep changing.  And always will.  Energy cannot be created nor destroyed.  So what happens to our energy?  Transforms.  But to what?  Who knows.  We wont know till we die.  Maybe nothing happens.  Maybe it will be like sleeping for all eternity.

    And the very reason who causes the constant changes of hypothesis is scientific evidences. Evidences, proofs which are discovered by scientific methods cause the change of hypothesis, help us to realize and fix our misunderstanding, and discover new things that we have not known yet.

    It is clear that there is countless things that we have not known yet. But we cannot use God to explain these things.

    And even if there really is a God, His existence should also be proved by science.

    No, we do not know if Dark matter exists, hence why we are trying to discover it (we assume it does). We also assume a black hole exists due to particles dissapearing quite rapidly, so it went from a black hole being believed to be a gateway to now a naked singularity.  A lot of theories have changed, even in my short existence.  Nothing wrong with thaylt really. But many people failed to acknowledge that it also requires a form of faith for a bliefe, even for a hypothesis.  So discounting one for the other is silly.  And as said before, god is a noun used to represent something.  Doesnt mean it is a bearded fellow in the sky.

    As well, please do not be certain about yourself on history. As we barely even know various timelines of the last couple thousand years.  We are still discovering lost cities.  So dont act like you know, cause no one really does.  Which is even more pathetic on the lousy documentation of our past.

    Saddam did use texts from the holy books to find parts of Babylon of Messopotania.  Not everything is a lie as one would pertain it to be.

    Edit: dont get me wrong. I think Dark matter exists, or may exist. But that doesnt discount the faith put into the theories. Once again, it is theorie vs theories. Was there a big bang? Was there a universe before? Was this always here? We do not know. It was a wheelchair bound guy who believes in extra terrestrial who thought of it. He may be right, or he may be a great bullshitter.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:37 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    I know you like to antagonize everyone but let us look at it this way.

    Nearly every religion on this earth, be it with contact of people who we had through the ages, or only recently (various Tribes) all believe in a certain god.  Be it one god.  The rest are indicated as demi gods (Hindu religion and other Paegan religions).  What I am getting at is, there is always the belief of spirituality and as well (In Hinduism and such, there is the Big guy, and then his underlings).

    It is rather easy to explain. I am an hardcore Anti-Theist, i have no ideas, thoughts or believes in supernatural things other the effect of peoples die hard believes of something that can have a psychological effect on how they act in different situations that may be described as dangerous or difficult, but i know for certain that if i as a Die hard Anti-theist, will get into a seemingly hopeless or an obvious hopeless situation where my life depends on help other than myself, i will pray to any god. This is a simple psychological mechanism embedded in every human to grasp for everything to stay alive, someone who losses hope, will accept his faith and die faster and that often without trying to find solutions for his situation. Nothing divine or supernatural about it, that is how our brains work and that is a good thing, however our brains

    Some brains that invent religions with absurd rules, laws that have cruel punishments deeply and fundamentally as part of a religion is also a disgusting thing but also a mechanism that exploits the psychology of us humans ie Manipulation by hope and fear.

    sepheronx wrote:
    People have faith that dark matter exists but we have not discovered it.  So are scientists just as delusional then to you?  We barely know what is happening in our universe.    To say what is certain, is simply fooling ourselves.  I am at the moment of a crisis regarding faith.  I have my faith, to a certain degree.  I cannot follow it blindly though.  I guess the Orthodoxy belief is quite something (good), but I think Hindu's may have it right, since it is indeed the oldest and longest surviving religion.

    I do not know about "people having faith" that dark matter exists, there are some theories based on some gaps in our understanding and knowledge about physics and some try to get to some theories trying to fill those gaps and Dark matter just as anti-graviton are such things. We haven't proven so far that Gravity exists by a clear defined way of physics, because there are some phenomenons that are contradicting to current and old "understanding" that gravity was direclty connected to mass, but in some phenomenons it appeared to be not the case. The difference between Science and Religion is that Religion has installed unchangable parameters, rules and laws. God is divine, there are no other gods beside him, heaven and hell, 10 commandments, God is, invisible, you have to believe in him, he works in mysterious ways, god was his son and gave his life for all sinners, bla bla bla. Religion does not try to achieve goals like answering questions. Every question of believers are always answered, that their lack of faith is a problem and untill they are not believing more, they will not "see" or "solve" their problem. Science tries to clearify by empirical studies to understand physical Laws and is not proposing one System, Concept or "Scientifical fact" for the rest of all time as the Dogmatic unchangable rule.

    sepheronx wrote:
    We don't even know who we are as a species and we have no real idea other than hypothesis as to our origins.

    We are the only species we know that has such a potent brains with such a complex psychology and we have no means to measure our "believes, knowledge and phyolosophies of our existence" that lack of real and evident species to compare us to is a problem for our own understanding. We humans have only one ability, we compare everything and everyone to something we understand and know, we have no real intelligent means of measure. We measure time, speed and distance by comparision of each other to understand one of those three things. You can't give me any Speed values without comparing time that has past and distance that has been travelled, same with the other two.

    I think that as long we do not find intelligent life in the universe we will never get a single grasp of what we are as a species that tries to dominate and transcendence without comparing us to something else with their technologies, culture and especially with their phylosophies which is to me one of the most intersting aspects of finding new alien life forms with comparable or higher intelligence.

    There are of course Scientific fields that are prohibited to study, that comes usually because of interests of big companies like, public studies that are not directly involved or engaged by Energy giants or Oil companies to develop alternative products or sources of energy and Technology behind it. They pay good price to get personal owned scientists to work for them, to have technology in advance for the marketing of tomorrow, but keep it tightly closed, patented and also destroy any "freelancer" that tries to come up with such technologies, sue them or buy off their technologies and then seal it, so their current oil making buisness does not have to change to a less profitable and most importantly a source that may have no one to hold power off. Oil is controlled by cartells, wind and sun can't be controlled by cartells. That is the problem of science i have with, people sealing technologies for money or power reasons and there is a very brought spectrum of fields in science that are "banned" for broad public.


    sepheronx wrote:
    We are dead certain that the Big Bang happened, without a lick of evidence or proof of the matter.  Simply put, some people believe there was nothing, then something.  Others believe there was a universe before this.  I myself think this universe was always here, and will always be here.  And that it will keep spitting out planets and solar systems forever.  Nothing will change and even if Humanity perishes, there could very well be something else.  Maybe we are alone in the Universe.  Maybe we are not?  No evidence.  No Proof, but we are fooling ourselves in pretending to be dead certain.

    If i am correct, they base the Bing Bang on the fact that matters travels through the universe and all galaxies, planets and stars are moving through the universe and attracting more matter by their gravity and all have a similiar shape of revolving around each other untill they form into one object, so basically how every star, moon, planet or whatever object in space has been formed with. Meaning if matter is moving through the universe and that is evident for every star, galaxy or any other object in space that provides us with one question: "why is everything moving through space" by our knowledge and understanding nothing moves without a force applied to an object beforehand, conclusion there was a force, "One" force at once that started all that. The theory about the Big Bang is, that it can't be proven. I do not claim to understand the entire Big Bang theory,  never really read actual scientific books about the Big Bang, even tho i downloaded some, never read it....anyways It can't be proven because of one thing of the former theory which lacked basic laws to be counted as a theory, the Lack of something before the Big Bang, nothing can come from nothing, so the theory today, is that before the Big Bang there must be something, energy in form of electric charge/particles, but the theory is just as flawed, however from the knowledge or the understanding there must be some force that applied energy to all mass in this universe to travel and the theory that the universe is "expanding" is one of those theories that are directly connected to the theory of Big Bang. Probably we will never find out how everything come to existence, our time as a species is very limited, not to underestimate the complexity of this question and matter. It is hard to make conclusions or studies when you lack most of the stuff like the unimagable time that has past from our understanding and our means of measurement of the universe time of the universe radiation level and dating of universe based on that very lacking technology we invented how to date time of everything.


    sepheronx wrote:
    I think we, as man, are living in a period of being overtly confident in ourselves.  We think with the internet and at least the ability that we went to the moon and launched some satellites to Mars, that we know it all.  But what we really know is nearly nothing and the hypothesis keep changing.  And always will.  Energy cannot be created nor destroyed.  So what happens to our energy?  Transforms.  But to what?  Who knows.  We wont know till we die.  Maybe nothing happens.  Maybe it will be like sleeping for all eternity.  I am OK with that too (as I wouldn't be capable of knowing any better anyway), although, I don't wish it as I would rather be able to spend eternity with my loved ones.

    I aggree, we are a very arrogant species, but we lack the means of comparing our species with other species on our level (yes i see the irony in those words) with something similiar to see if that is rare, exclusive or just the sign of unmatured species.


    As for dying, i can't claim to know it for dead certain (pun intented) what happens afterwards, but as described by some who have studied and seen people dying, how some have acted or were near death, it all sounds from a  medical standpoint like a dying procedure and your last thoughts usually mostly uncohorent due the lack of oxygen the brain recieves, so often people interpret it as "visions or a spiritual" happening. There were also some re-appearing scences that people have described that heads of beheaded seconds after the death penalty have moved their eyeballs or tried to slowly and weakly try to form words with their lips or have looked back to the masses, which the reports often came from times of public executions. I think when we die, we are dead and nothing happens afterwards, no souls, no afterlife just what remains of us and the marks we leave on this planet and that makes me kind of said and me just like many others fear this, dying without leaving anything on earth that lasts for centuries. To achieve something as a person in life so you will be remembered for much longer time than the 100 years of your kids and grandkids life times who will remember you and after that noone will have known you, most families do not bother about their ancestors unless they have gained something to be famous to bust their own egos with the achievements of their ancestors. Hard to say but i do not thing there will be anything after this life, we make heaven and hell down here already, most are unfortune to be born in one country or in a bad family or just the circumstances of their lifes get bad, others create bad conditions and are left in a hell on earth. Some or fortune to be born in a better time, richer family, maybe in a wealthy family with morals and values which are very important in life. I think we have all here and there are no devine tests or trails to see if someone is worthy, how many were put to life just today as an infant due to disease, war, unworthy scum parents or whatever circumstances they had during their short lifes? How many have been born dead, aborted, murdered, died before they could even think for themselfs? To me that does not show any kind of form of devine plan for trail the worthy and unworthy, just a horrible place we mainly created for ourselfs actually from the sociopaths with struggle for power against the rest of population.

    You want a meaning, a purpose for your life? Figure it out for yourself noone will tell you anything of value for you, you are an individual and noone knows you better than yourself, if you do not give yourself a purpose no one will do. Maybe a good start in life would be to spend your time with whatever makes you happy and try to avoid or reduce the time in your life that you could spend with things you hate, that make you feel bad that are contra to your believes, values, morals.

    If you are in your old days lying to die without much things to regret, have passed on your genes, values, morals, ideas to another generation then i think you had a good life, but those are my believes.

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    Re: The Religion Thread

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:57 pm

    You are right, we do lack the contact of any other species that falls within similar structures as us in terms of intelligence.  Religion may be man created, but the rest, don't know.  We even lack of a concept of understanding even recent history for us (well, you can thank people who write based upon what they deemed is appropriate like the concept of might makes right and what not.

    As for the rest, you seem quite sensible.  You may not need to believe, as I understand your viewpoint - man has created some very odd and somewhat stupid laws within the confines of the faith.  One thing I think most people fail to acknowledge that I think what our Vietnamese friend is stating, is that Spirituality doesn't necessarily mean it requires or has created religion.

    As for the big bang.  They keep changing it.  Now they are seeing that planets are being "spit out" by a gas field in the center of the universe, or so they believe.  That wouldn't necessarily mean a big bang of any sort but that it is just a continuous process.

    As well, for the dying part, it is possible but then there are cases of people dying on surgery table, then claiming they seen the operation to revive them, and then it is confirmed by the doctor.  Three separate instances and it was mentioned in the local paper here.  Before my grandfather died, he said something, and he died within moments after seeing what he stated he saw.  His brain functioned fine, but he died through suffocation in the lungs (lung collapse).  So we know it wasn't that. Then there is the older lady at my workplace who died on the operating table many years ago during some sort of surgery and then was brought back. She doesn't remember much other than hearing nothing but seeing something. Biggest for her was she mentioned she had this feeling of 'peace' and didn't want to be revived. Kinda scary in my opinion. I know life can suck, but I don't think it is THAT bad.

    We won't know until the moment comes I suppose.

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