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    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

    medo
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    Post  medo on Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:35 pm

    Don't expect too much. It's military equipment, not Hollywood sci-fi movie. What really matter is inside computers, not in LCD screens.
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    Post  Hachimoto on Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:09 pm

    Rpg type 7v wrote:
    medo wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Nice picture of 55K6 regimental command post


    and many others in HQ

    LINK

    Nice pictures. New complexes are not much behind in ergonomics comparing to western ones with using modern technology and LCD screens.

    You gotta be kidding me ,this is the top notch best tech Russia has???Shocked  Rolling Eyes Laughing  affraid affraid affraid 
    I was expecting something more like holographic 3D/4D volume displays ,shallower keyboards ,ergonomic switches and twice as large high resolution high definition LCDs with touch screen and direct commands.
    Basically everything that enhances situational awareness and reaction time.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnmU2NomIiQ
    ...
    I m shocked trully ,i have better stuff at my home ,then a some multi billion strategic national defence system of Russia....Razz 
    Ill help just send me radar data on my screens and ill give you much better information.Cool 
    Lol at Russia is this the best they can do???cry
    Im dissapointed . Really pale   dunno

    How could you be so ... stupid ? it's a military stuff not hannah barbera video clip
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    Post  TR1 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:39 pm

    RPG being a dolt is nothing new. Why people bother to respond to him is a mystery to me.

    Just look at his bafoonery in the Pantsir thread. Hilarious.

    Shallower keyboards LOL.

    http://www.mining-technology.com/uploads/feature/feature60074/5-uav-control-room.jpg

    How about this UAV control room? IS THAT THE BEST AMERICA CAN DO ?!?! OMG TERRIBLE!

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    Post  Deep Throat on Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:29 pm

    The RESTRICTED AREAS of a military facility are not allowed to be photographed . All the R & D works happen in these Restricted Areas . Ergo , only an insider knows how missile systems like the Vityaz are developed .
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:11 pm

    TR1 wrote:RPG being a dolt is nothing new. Why people bother to respond to him is a mystery to me.

    Just look at his bafoonery in the Pantsir thread. Hilarious.

    Shallower keyboards LOL.

    http://www.mining-technology.com/uploads/feature/feature60074/5-uav-control-room.jpg

    How about this UAV control room? IS THAT THE BEST AMERICA CAN DO ?!?! OMG TERRIBLE!

    thats a simple single uav command post ,ofcourse its going to be simple...

    Its not top AA longrange system s-400...
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    Post  TR1 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:20 pm

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9114/167229822.47/0_c302f_26d9b8ca_orig

    Here is a not simple Patriot PAC-3 command post.

    I don't see anything amazing or phenomenally better.
    Nice crappy TALL keyboards and check out those ancient gauges in the middle!

    You are either talking the piss, or really that stupid. Which one is it?
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:31 pm

    well displays are bigger and look more HD.
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    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:51 am

    Rpg type 7v wrote:well displays are bigger and look more HD.

    Look more HD? I am sorry, but I have to call you an idiot.

    I work in the high tech industry, and I can tell you that HD is a term for anything higher then letter box definition. More HD? You are aware they pack 27in displays with 1440P?

    But then again, no point in talking to you about it. IF it has bigger monitors, you would be impressed and say "MOAR ADVANCED1!!1 Herp derp".
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    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:27 am

    Russia will improve software, strike components of aerospace defense

    Further development of the Aerospace Defense Troops is a priority, said Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, General Valery Gerasimov.

    "The capabilities of the aerospace defense troops will be increased by way of perfecting their software and strike components, which will guarantee the detection of strategic ballistic and long-range cruise missile launches," Gerasimov told the media.

    He said highly sensitive early warning radar stations will be deployed along Russia's perimeter, similar to those installed in Lekhtusi and Armavir.

    "The surface-to-air missiles systems will be upgraded, and the units responsible for aerospace defense will be provided with S-400 and S-500 missile systems capable of defending vital facilities from air and missile strikes," Gerasimov said.

    "The measures to be taken will make our strategic nuclear forces much more viable and our critically important facilities better protected," he said.

    "We have enumerated the various forms and methods of deploying our armed forces, which will allow us to counter any hi-tech enemy effectively, should aggression be launched against Russia, Gerasimov said.
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    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:32 am

    I believe in future all ICBM silos will be protected by S-500 batteries.

    Are Russian ICBM silos closely located with each other which means fewer S-500 can protect a large number of silos or are these silos sparsely located at great distance which mean you would need many S-500 batteries to protect them ?
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:07 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Rpg type 7v wrote:well displays are bigger and look more HD.

    Look more HD?  I am sorry, but I have to call you an idiot.

    I work in the high tech industry, and I can tell you that HD is a term for anything higher then letter box definition.  More HD?  You are aware they pack 27in displays with 1440P?

    But then again, no point in talking to you about it.  IF it has bigger monitors, you would be impressed and say "MOAR ADVANCED1!!1 Herp derp".

    hm i think you neglect radar operator having to monitor many hours the situation ,it can be very tired for the eyes and can induce laziness and blur the vision and damage eyes in the long run...so having lcds with best resolution sharpness refresh rate and true colors is very important.
    My father was at radar station got into army with superb vision ,came back with glasses.
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    Post  SOC on Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:11 pm

    Austin wrote:I believe in future all ICBM silos will be protected by S-500 batteries.

    Are Russian ICBM silos closely located with each other which means fewer S-500 can protect a large number of silos or are these silos sparsely located at great distance which mean you would need many S-500 batteries to protect them ?

    They're not too spread out. The advantage to the S-500, however, is mobility, meaning it can deploy alongside mobile ICBMs in the field as well.
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    Post  medo on Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:43 pm

    Rpg type 7v wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Rpg type 7v wrote:well displays are bigger and look more HD.

    Look more HD?  I am sorry, but I have to call you an idiot.

    I work in the high tech industry, and I can tell you that HD is a term for anything higher then letter box definition.  More HD?  You are aware they pack 27in displays with 1440P?

    But then again, no point in talking to you about it.  IF it has bigger monitors, you would be impressed and say "MOAR ADVANCED1!!1 Herp derp".

    hm i think you neglect radar operator having to monitor many hours the situation ,it can be very tired for the eyes and can induce laziness and blur the vision and damage eyes in the long run...so having lcds with best resolution sharpness refresh rate and true colors is very important.
    My father was at radar station got into army with superb vision ,came back with glasses.

    Size of screen doesn't mean it could not be of top quality. Russians choose smaller to place three working stations, while Patriot have two. Patriot work on its own, while S-400 coordinate work with subordinated batteries.

    I believe your father work in times, when there were only katod tubes and no LCDs.
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    Post  Austin on Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:59 pm

    SOC wrote:
    Austin wrote:I believe in future all ICBM silos will be protected by S-500 batteries.

    Are Russian ICBM silos closely located with each other which means fewer S-500 can protect a large number of silos or are these silos sparsely located at great distance which mean you would need many S-500 batteries to protect them ?

    They're not too spread out.  The advantage to the S-500, however, is mobility, meaning it can deploy alongside mobile ICBMs in the field as well.

    Isnt US too working on Mobile SM-3 version , Should not be a big deal for US if they wish to make SM-3 road mobile and give it S-500 like capability.
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    Post  Viktor on Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:31 pm

    Austin wrote:
    SOC wrote:
    Austin wrote:I believe in future all ICBM silos will be protected by S-500 batteries.

    Are Russian ICBM silos closely located with each other which means fewer S-500 can protect a large number of silos or are these silos sparsely located at great distance which mean you would need many S-500 batteries to protect them ?

    They're not too spread out.  The advantage to the S-500, however, is mobility, meaning it can deploy alongside mobile ICBMs in the field as well.

    Isnt US too working on Mobile SM-3 version , Should not be a big deal for US if they wish to make SM-3 road mobile and give it S-500 like capability.

    Ground based SM-3 and S-500 can not have similar capability simply because SM-3 is purely ballistic missile while S-500 will have besides ballistic targets

    optimization for many other different application (like hypersonic high flying targets) etc.

    Than again you may asses the word "mobile" and "similar" while talking about US and Russian systems. THAAD is for instance mobile system as well as S-300V but

    THAAD takes 24 hours to deploy and S-300V (regimental set) 5 minutes and on the brigade level 20 minutes. I suspect SM-3 will not be very mobile system in

    comparison with Russians ones. Russia takes all the systems will deployment of time more than half and hour as good as dead in conditions of intense modern

    fighting.
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    Post  SOC on Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:04 pm

    Viktor wrote:Ground based SM-3 and S-500 can not have similar capability simply because SM-3 is purely ballistic missile while S-500 will have besides ballistic targets

    Completely true, but I don't see why they couldn't also incorporate the SM-2 if the capability was desired. Probably won't though, it appears that MEADS is the Patriot successor.

    Viktor wrote:I suspect SM-3 will not be very mobile system in comparison with Russians ones.

    Depends on how they do the radar. That's what makes Patriot and THAAD take more time to set up. It's also what makes the S-300P take up to an hour if they have to use the 40V6 masts.
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    Post  sepheronx on Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:43 am

    Rpg type 7v wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Rpg type 7v wrote:well displays are bigger and look more HD.

    Look more HD?  I am sorry, but I have to call you an idiot.

    I work in the high tech industry, and I can tell you that HD is a term for anything higher then letter box definition.  More HD?  You are aware they pack 27in displays with 1440P?

    But then again, no point in talking to you about it.  IF it has bigger monitors, you would be impressed and say "MOAR ADVANCED1!!1 Herp derp".

    hm i think you neglect radar operator having to monitor many hours the situation ,it can be very tired for the eyes and can induce laziness and blur the vision and damage eyes in the long run...so having lcds with best resolution sharpness refresh rate and true colors is very important.
    My father was at radar station got into army with superb vision ,came back with glasses.

    My father built the ESA radar in the Dew lines back in the 80's, as well as upgraded the radar to AESA later in the mid 80's, and they all used Cathod Ray Tube and vaccum tube technology for monitors, and even to this day, still rely on subsystems using cathode ray as well as memory data stored on cylinder wraped copper coils as they are significantly better at preventing overcharge from EW compared to solid state materials. Those UAV stations using those type of monitors, as modern day LCD displays for military technology can easily be fried in a heavy EW enviornment. Yes, they have improved solid state over the years to be more protective against EMP overcharge, but they can still be easily dealt with compared to old vacuum tubes and Cathod Ray Tubes.
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    Post  Rpg type 7v on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:31 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Rpg type 7v wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    Rpg type 7v wrote:well displays are bigger and look more HD.

    Look more HD?  I am sorry, but I have to call you an idiot.

    I work in the high tech industry, and I can tell you that HD is a term for anything higher then letter box definition.  More HD?  You are aware they pack 27in displays with 1440P?

    But then again, no point in talking to you about it.  IF it has bigger monitors, you would be impressed and say "MOAR ADVANCED1!!1 Herp derp".

    hm i think you neglect radar operator having to monitor many hours the situation ,it can be very tired for the eyes and can induce laziness and blur the vision and damage eyes in the long run...so having lcds with best resolution sharpness refresh rate and true colors is very important.
    My father was at radar station got into army with superb vision ,came back with glasses.

    My father built the ESA radar in the Dew lines back in the 80's, as well as upgraded the radar to AESA later in the mid 80's, and they all used Cathod Ray Tube and vaccum tube technology for monitors, and even to this day, still rely on subsystems using cathode ray as well as memory data stored on cylinder wraped copper coils as they are significantly better at preventing overcharge from EW compared to solid state materials.  Those UAV stations using those type of monitors, as modern day LCD displays for military technology can easily be fried in a heavy EW enviornment.  Yes, they have improved solid state over the years to be more protective against EMP overcharge, but they can still be easily dealt with compared to old vacuum tubes and Cathod Ray Tubes.

    microelectronics today is so small ,that most systems are duplicated, and have backup.
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    Post  SOC on Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:10 pm

    S-300 and S-400 history, etc

    Feedback is appreciated.
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    Post  Viktor on Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:52 am

    SOC wrote:S-300 and S-400 history, etc

    Feedback is appreciated.

    You are the man. I can not even think off how many work hours did you spend while preparing this masterpiece. respekt thumbsup 

    It will take me several days to read it in peace and in detail and than I will post my feedback.

    Here it is, one full regiment: 288 missiles, 36 tracked targets, 72 guided missiles, enough missiles for shooting at 144 targets with 288 missiles (than loading)

    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1 - Page 31 Oln8

    One full brigade consists of 4 regiments like this one meaning:

    - 144 tracked targets, 288 guided missiles, enough missiles for shooting at 576 targets with 1152 missiles (than loading) (with air wing directly controlled by
      Baikal-1ME)

    Thats is of course ideal situation when you have complete S-400 brigade and of course for export version only. Russian versions are not advertised and are

    suspected to form.

    - 8 battery regiment
    - at least 10 target guidance channels etc.
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    Post  Viktor on Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:46 pm

    Here is one more picture - better explaining situation with the communications at S-400 system.

    S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1 - Page 31 98ecls
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    Post  Austin on Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:54 pm

    Thanks SOC for your effort in demystifying Russia's Triple Digit SAM.

    It would have taken perhaps many weeks to write that out but the end result is awesome
    probably the best literature we have on S-300/400 out there in open.

    It would take some days for me to read and comment on it.

    Kudos to SOC !
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    Post  Viktor on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:23 pm

    I guess demand for Russian air defense soared after recent events on Iraq/Serbia/Libya and now Syria and could be Iran.

    Now we have two situation that would never happen in SU.

    - Small production rate for Russia
    - Small production rate for export.

    Sweat worries nevertheless and I hope those two factories will start pumping out faster or more of them should be build.


    FSMTC: The demand for the C-300 exceeds the production capabilities of Russia
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    Post  SOC on Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:32 am

    Viktor wrote:You are the man. I can not even think off how many work hours did you spend while preparing this masterpiece

    That's easy, I cheated angel 

    This started out as a blog post, then got extended a bit, then got stuck into my digital magazine, then got expanded to what you've got here. I think this is about twice as long as it was when I last updated it in April of 2011. Plus, it's been purposely laid out the way it is to make it that much easier going forward to update bits and pieces.

    Speaking of which, none of the speculative stuff (i.e. GRAVE STONE engaging more than six targets) will be included until it's reported someplace reliable. I tried to avoid anything speculative or unconfirmed as much as possible.

    Viktor wrote:I guess demand for Russian air defense soared after recent events on Iraq/Serbia/Libya and now Syria and could be Iran.

    I've been saying for years that Iran, the DPRK, Syria, and others should be paying attention to the US/NATO/etc. making a joke out of air defense systems relying on old Soviet-era equipment. Libya appeared to be getting the message, but too late. Syria appears to have figured it out in time. Iran and the DPRK remain the only two major "anti-Western" states relying on what, from an ECM and exploitation perspective, is ancient technology. Since we'd never have the brains or balls to introduce Pakistan (the other laughable air defense network) to the forces leaving Afghanistan, Iran or the DPRK would be your best bet for "who will get bombed next."

    See, if we took out Pakistan, Iran, and the DPRK, everybody significant left would be able to defend themselves to a degree...which might actually settle things down jocolor
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    Post  Viktor on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:50 am

    SOC wrote:Speaking of which, none of the speculative stuff (i.e. GRAVE STONE engaging more than six targets) will be included until it's reported someplace reliable.  I tried to avoid anything speculative or unconfirmed as much as possible.

    And you did a right thing avoiding speculative things.

    Still its is worth knowing that Russian version is a beast of its own. You can consider this article (which I posted many years ago) as a grandpa article of all

    S-400 articles Very Happy .

    New [ZRS] S -400 will enter into the troops [KSPN] in July - August 2007

    Moscow, on April 5. ([ITAR]- TASS). New antiaircraft-missile system S -400 it will enter into the troops of the special-purpose command in July - August 2007, reported at the press conference the commander-in-chief of forces of the special-purpose command ([KSPN]) colonel general Yuri Solovyev.

    “We expect to obtain this complex in July - August, to conduct its method and firing of technology, to and then place it on standby alert”, he said. According to Solovyev, the system S -400 “triumph” several times exceeds that existing S -300 “on the noise protection, along the purposeful channels, on the shooting at the high-speed purposes”.

    Solovyev recalled that new [ZRS] “can work on the hypersonic purposes, which fly with a speed of up to 3 thousand m/s at the heights to 150 km ". It reported that the first regiment, which already in August will intercede to standby alert on S -400, “will simultaneously obtain the rockets of the increased radius of action”.

    “All our efforts are now directed toward that so that the industry would as fast as possible place technology on the range for the test launchings with the subsequent setting to standby alert”, said commander.

    “Over the long term [ZRS] S -400 it can be the component part of the system [VKO] together with other complexes”, focused attention General. It informed, that S -400 has the capability to work in neighbor space and is capable of accomplishing the tasks of nonstrategic



    This is as credible as it can get. And you can see few interesting things here:

    - several times increased electronic resistance (in comparison with S-300)
    - more guidance channels (than S-300)
    - able to defeat a goals flying 3000m/s at 150km


    Here is interesting summary from Marshall Institute LINK

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