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    Russian Patriot

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    Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:26 pm

    Russia to draft 320,000 conscripts in fall 2009 - General Staff
    RIA Novosti

    16:1321/07/2009 MOSCOW, July 21 (RIA Novosti) - About 320,000 young men are to be drafted into the Russian Armed Forces in the fall of 2009, a deputy chief of the General Staff said on Tuesday.

    "According to our estimates, about 320,000 people will be conscripted into the Russian Armed Forces this fall," Col. Gen. Vasily Smirnov said.

    Only 133,000 conscripts joined the armed forces during the spring draft, and about 219,000 people were drafted in last year's fall.

    The general said the higher number of conscripts was due to the reduction of officer ranks, the scrapping the rank of warrant officers and cuts to contract personnel.

    As of January 1, 2009, the Russian Armed Forces numbered 355,000 officers and 140,000 warrant officers.

    "By the end of 2009, we will have 150,000 officers, all warrant officers will have been discharged or absorbed into other ranks, and we will have less contracted personnel," Smirnov said.

    "Therefore, we will have to draft over 300,000 people," he said.

    The current military reforms in Russia will see personnel cut to 1 million by 2012 from 1.34 million.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:23 pm

    We need more men under the kontrakt. The draft has been reduced to 12 months so people recieving traning will just hit the streets after all that money spent on them. Time to increase wages. The current increases are hardly keeping with inflation.
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    Vladislav

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Vladislav on Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:45 am

    You actually support closure of conscription? You know what happens when we can't draft? When the Chinese come rolling in here we might as well just hand them the country.
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    Ice Man

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    Mandatory Military Service

    Post  Ice Man on Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:39 pm

    I have heard something about Russia is moving toward a professional military service and leaving the mandatory military service, is that true and if so, what do you think about having a professional military instead of conscription? Discuss!
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:40 am

    Not fully, but they are planning (and have been) increasing the ratio of kontraktniki and conscripts.

    Recently I think they made it so you can just go into kontract service without doing conscription term first- logical and one wonders why the hell it took so long to make that change.
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:45 am

    TR1 wrote:Not fully, but they are planning (and have been) increasing the ratio of kontraktniki and conscripts.

    Recently I think they made it so you can just go into kontract service without doing conscription term first- logical and one wonders why the hell it took so long to make that change.

    What's so logical about it? And I haven't heard anything about this.

    Conscript service is absolutely necessary IMO; the most important thing is that you actually train the conscripts properly and make sure they learn some useful things rather than waste time. That way you will have a large pool of young men in the country with a certain level of military training, who know what the military is like, would have better fitness standards in many cases and would be more predisposed towards signing up for contract service at some later point compared to someone who's never served at all.
    That last point might come as a surprise but it does seem to be the way it works.

    The only alternative that would make sense is if new conscripts do a longer-length contract service as a replacement for a shorter-length conscript service, as has been proposed recently.
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    Airbornewolf

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Airbornewolf on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:54 pm

    every nation should do what it feels is best of course. but the following is my own personal opinion.

    my nation had mandatory military service in the past, and while it did gave the military plenty of manpower the mentality and physical performance was often something to be desired. you can yell all you want against a guy, but if its not his choice to be there in the army and he HAD to show up you probably wont get him to the level you would get with a willing recruit.

    professional military service is in my opinion efficient and more or less guarantees well-trained and motivated millitary personell. they are after all there by choice. and not by force. the benefits already show them self in basic training. if they want to leave basic training, then let them. they dont meet requirements, then cancel their contracts and hire replacements with the next training season. also for resource management it saves the millitary time and money with training. time and money better spend on modernizing weapon systems and specialization training. you get the guys (and women) that want to serve, and are not forced to.

    and trough training them harder than you can with conscripts you reach a higher level of skill and morale.


    after all this, im not saying conscription is all bad. damn spoiled MTV-kids nowadays could use a good boot up the behind and yelled over an obstacle course. but from a millitary point of view voluntary service would have the best long-term results.
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Regular on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:11 pm

    ^^ Good points, but that's why Russia has mixed conscript and professional force. IDF and FDF are very good example of modern conscription.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:45 pm

    When there is a real land based threat to your country then having the male population of your country have some understanding of military life is a good thing.

    Being able to shoot straight too is handy.

    The key is to make it worthwhile... make it an opportunity to learn a trade that is useful in civilian life too.


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    zg18

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  zg18 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:04 am

    Prussian all-conscript army beat the hell out Napoleon the III professional French army back in 1871 , professional army is more efficient but well trained and equipped conscript force should not be underestimated.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:46 am

    Indeed... a conscript US army in Vietnam didn't perform ideally, but then if they were fighting off an invasion from North Korea or Cuba or China for that matter I think they would be rather better motivated to perform.


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    franco

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    Russian Armed Forces personnel:

    Post  franco on Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:19 pm

    So how many personnel are in the Russian Armed Forces today?

    MO reports that 90.5% of positions are filled as of January 1. This is up from a year ago when the figure was at 82.3%.

    Does 90.5% = 905,000 soldiers?

    Figures released lately would indicate the following breakdown;

    Officers - 220,000
    Sergeants & Contractors - 295,000
    Conscripts - 279,000  (Note: Military conscripts total 309,000. The other 30,000 must serve in the Interior Troops (VV) and Federal Protection Service (FSO - Kremlin Regiment) which I believe are the only two other Military [Security] forces still taking in conscripts)

    Total - 794,000  (Short by 111,000)

    Cadets - 60-70,000 (split the difference at 65,000 still leaves 46,000 short)

    Warrant Officers - ??  
    Serdyukov abolished the position with 140,000 staff in 2010 but Shoigu reinstated with a planned 55,000 staff. The WO's used to be counted as a separate figure from the Sergeants & Contractors so perhaps they are the variance. However I can find nothing to support this.

    Any information or input would be appreciated.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:26 pm

    I wonder if they are also adding in contract soldiers too. Since they raised the wages for contract soldiers to that of what a lot of engineers and doctors make in Russia, I can imagine there would be a lot of people wanting to join now.

    I wonder how many men/woman work in the private military sector in Russia too.

    Asf

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Asf on Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:04 pm

    private military sector in Russia
    There is no such a thing, really

    Asf

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Asf on Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:11 pm

    Don't you think it's top secret information, so your math is a bull shit as there is no actual data in media on that question.

    I can only say there are many contract soldiers how have joined the Army since the beggining of Shoigu's time (MoD told many times about overfulfilment of contract soldiers recruitment plans), so 90,5% of personel could be true
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  franco on Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:48 am

    Is it top secret? or just secret. All figures are from the MO to the media... just not all at once.

    The Officer total (planned) after the graduation last year and the amalgamation of the Ukrainian forces in Crimea should be 100% or pretty close.
    The Contractor and Conscript totals are new releases, as is the 90.5% of positions filled.
    The Cadet total is unknown. The planned total for the 1,000,000 army is 70,000 cadets. Today's total would be less, so my figure is subjective.
    The Warrant Officer total of 55,000 is planned. The questions are whether it is a stand along figure OR should be included in the Contractor total PLUS how many of those positions are filled. My assessment is that it would be high, as rumors are that not all the 140,000 Warrant Officer positions were dissolved in 2010 due to necessity.

    So I am looking for confirmation, answers or thoughts.
    And I'm not sure where the BS is?
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  franco on Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:53 am

    sepheronx wrote:

    I wonder how many men/woman work in the private military sector in Russia too.

    There is a large Private Security sector in Russia but the only private military types would be the Cossack organizations which have been connected to the MVD for control and monitoring purposes.


    Last edited by franco on Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:08 am

    Asf wrote:
    private military sector in Russia
    There is no such a thing, really

    OK, Private security contractors. Which do exist.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  franco on Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:06 pm

    Some of the increase to the Russian Armed Forces is the result of the amalgamation of former Ukrainian Armed Forces into the Russian Armed Forces after the annex of Crimea.

    In January 2014 there was an estimated 14,500 -14,800 Ukrainian Armed Forces stationed in Crimea. There were a further estimated 4,000 other military forces (Interior troops, Border Guards and Coast Guard);
    - Navy and Coastal Defense 11,900
    - Air Force and Air Defense 2,600 to 2,900
    - no Ground Forces were permanently stationed in the Crimea but a company of Airborne was there on a joint training exercise with the Marine battalion and they were escorted out of Crimea first.
    - no break down on the other Military forces but suspect ~ 75% would have been Interior troops.

    After the referendum, the Russian military gave the Ukrainian forces 3 options;
    - become Russian citizens and join the Russian military
    - become civilians and remain in Crimea
    - stay with the Ukrainian military and leave Crimea

    In March 2014, the Ukrainian Minister of Defense announced to the Ukrainian Rada that;
    - 2,600 members of the Armed forces in Crimea
    - 800 members of the other Military forces
    - 900 of their dependents
    would have to be moved back into Ukraine

    And that a further ~ 900 Crimean citizens serving in Ukrainian military units in Ukraine as Regulars, Cadets and Conscripts had requested release from service to return to Crimea, which would be accomplished by April's end. ( the Minister was relieved shortly afterwards)

    The Russian MO announced in April, that ~ 9,200 Officers, Cadets, Warrants and Contractors from the Ukrainian Armed Forces had been accepted into the Russian Armed Forces.
    Further that all the Crimean born conscripts would finish out their service in the Interior Troop units in Crimea. Drafting of Crimean citizens into the Russian Armed Forces would not start until 2015.
    No breakdown of other Military forces, but at one point during the Crisis, Crimean authorities had claimed that 75% of them had switched sides.

    The Russian Armed Forces announced towards year end that another ~800 Crimean citizens had been recruited as Contractors in 2014.
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    franco

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  franco on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:09 pm

    Russian Military Draft

    - One of the most talked about issues with the Draft has been the Demographic Crisis that occurred in Russia after the breakup of the USSR and the lowering of draft eligible young men each year. This will slowly swing in the other way with the increased birth rates... very slowly but in a positive direction. The demographic crisis as it relates to draft age 18 year old's is due to bottom out in 2018 and to start swinging slowly in the other direction after 2020.
    - The MO has reported that the health of the potential conscripts has slowly improved over the past 5 years and that with the 1-year service and improved living conditions, draft evasion has decreased.
    - Another factor at play has been the reluctance to draft conscripts from the Muslim North Caucasian Republics (+4% of Federation population) and those few that are recruited serve in the Troops of the Interior (VV). In the last draft another ~1,000 were drafted with some actually going into Armed Forces service. This year it is planned to increase that number.
    - The final increase will come this year as citizens of Crimea will be eligible for the draft. With a population of about 1/70 of Russia, this should provide an additional 2,000 conscripts per draft.

    Asf

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Asf on Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:19 am

    franco wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:

    I wonder how many men/woman work in the private military sector in Russia too.

    There is a large Private Security sector in Russia but the only private military types would be the Cossack organizations which have been connected to the MVD for control and monitoring purposes.
    Cossacks are private military organisation?))) You are kidding me))
    OK, Private security contractors. Which do exist.
    Well, if you are calling those few guys with shotguns who protecting cargo ships from sea hobos as private military companies then you have little understanding of the word 'military'. They are just a private security. There are no rivate military contractors in Russia as they are illegal. Really illegal, not like weed smoking in Europe
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:54 am

    Asf wrote:Don't you think it's top secret information, so your math is a bull shit as there is no actual data in media on that question.

    I can only say there are many contract soldiers how have joined the Army since the beggining of Shoigu's time (MoD told many times about overfulfilment of contract soldiers recruitment plans), so 90,5% of personel could be true

    No, it really isn't classified information. Recruitment numbers are reported seasonally and the targets are released in the White Paper. The Russian military is not China, we maintain transparency.


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    Asf

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Asf on Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:59 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Asf wrote:Don't you think it's top secret information, so your math is a bull shit as there is no actual data in media on that question.

    I can only say there are many contract soldiers how have joined the Army since the beggining of Shoigu's time (MoD told many times about overfulfilment of contract soldiers recruitment plans), so 90,5% of personel could be true

    No, it really isn't classified information.  Recruitment numbers are reported seasonally and the targets are released in the White Paper.  The Russian military is not China, we maintain transparency.  
    Recruitment numbers are fine, but the topic is about actual army strenght. It isn't a public info, numbers given in papers aren't accurate, imho. Actual grade of tranparency can be different, can use find information about say the US Army personel? Not the total abstract numbers. And how can you be sure it's 100% true info?
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:13 am

    Asf wrote:
    Recruitment numbers are fine, but the topic is about actual army strenght. It isn't a public info, numbers given in papers aren't accurate, imho. Actual grade of tranparency can be different, can use find information about say the US Army personel? Not the total abstract numbers. And how can you be sure it's 100% true info?

    The numbers are released by the MoD.  If it was a lie to keep up appearance they wouldn't report how understaffed the Army is. We already had the days of Paper Army, it is no more.


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    franco

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    Re: Russian Armed Forces Personnel

    Post  franco on Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:59 pm

    Asf wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:
    Asf wrote:Don't you think it's top secret information, so your math is a bull shit as there is no actual data in media on that question.

    I can only say there are many contract soldiers how have joined the Army since the beggining of Shoigu's time (MoD told many times about overfulfilment of contract soldiers recruitment plans), so 90,5% of personel could be true

    No, it really isn't classified information.  Recruitment numbers are reported seasonally and the targets are released in the White Paper.  The Russian military is not China, we maintain transparency.  
    Recruitment numbers are fine, but the topic is about actual army strenght. It isn't a public info, numbers given in papers aren't accurate, imho. Actual grade of tranparency can be different, can use find information about say the US Army personel? Not the total abstract numbers. And how can you be sure it's 100% true info?


    All figures from my post are from media releases from the Russian Ministry of Defense. They are not all from the same time and please find me some 100% truth anywhere. The purpose of my post was to lay out the data that I had to see if someone had better or more to add.

    There are challenges in acquiring information such as this and they are multitude such as;

    1- military official has little desire to share information with a civilian and an even stronger desire to make sure he doesn't release too much.
    2- reporter has a varying degree of understanding of the terminology and technology of what the military guy said and then puts his perspective on it.
    3- editor or proof writer then put their perspective on it.
    4- and if there is a translation from Russian to English. Well, just say some of it can be funny and some just plain sad!
    5- Then you can get an English writer reading the article for data for his article. Again another perspective.
    6- Finally we get our hands on it and put our perspective on it.

    A good example of this would be the Armata MBT and how many are planned for by the end of 2020. Just on this site alone that is all over the place.
    - some expect to see 2300 modern Armata MBT.
    - some look and say that would not be possible production wise, so they must mean a total 2300 of the Armata modular weapons platform.
    - I read it and believe it means 2300 modern MBT's, which would be T-72B3, T-90A and Armata.

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