Poland - US military relations:

Werewolf wrote:You can't modernize old cobras to vipers. The fuselage is widened to fight more avionics, the structure is reinforced to have better protection ballistically aswell deformation in a free fall. They are always newly build.

I said that "technology" from new Vipers can be applied to Cobras, that does not mean you literally have to refabricate them to be Vipers.

Also you can evade widening of the hull with boxes that get welded to original fuselage and then with cabling, if you really want to keep old frames of some helicopter.

Militarov wrote:

Werewolf wrote:You can't modernize old cobras to vipers. The fuselage is widened to fight more avionics, the structure is reinforced to have better protection ballistically aswell deformation in a free fall. They are always newly build.

I said that "technology" from new Vipers can be applied to Cobras, that does not mean you literally have to refabricate them to be Vipers.

Also you can evade widening of the hull with boxes that get welded to original fuselage and then with cabling, if you really want to keep old frames of some helicopter.

That is what they do with Apaches and that is the Apaches armor sheme, the use the avionic "cheeks" as the main armor which can only withstand 7.62mm from long distances so the avionic modules are the first armor for the cockpit, not the best way to make a helicopter. The old cobras are ancient and have many failures by todays standards based on their flawed design such as the free hinge rotor system which caused significant amount of must bumping with fatal results.

Militarov wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Militarov wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Militarov wrote:"Bell Helicopter is planning to offer its AH-1Z attack helicopter to Poland for a forthcoming requirement to replace the Mil M-24s operated by the country’s land forces.

“We can provide the most cost-effective solution and state-of the-art helicopter with unmatched capability for Poland,” says Joel Best, regional director, military business development at the US manufacturer. “We are very interested in co-operation with Poland and in next few months we want to create Zulu Team with companies in the Polish defence sector,” he says.



Intriguingly, Bell is also touting the UH-1Y utility variant as a back-up plan in case Warsaw’s proposed tri-service order with Airbus Helicopters for 50 H225Ms falls through. “If something happens with the Caracal deal, Bell will be happy to provide an attack and utility combination, with 85% of technical commonality and significant cost saving,” adds Mike Gleason, international military business development at Bell."

Source: http://defence-blog.com/news/bell-helicopter-offers-ah-1z-and-uh-1y-helicopters-to-poland.html

I don't know what they smoke in Poland, but the Viper is the most costly choice...But I get the Rasha Dasha vibe.

Well, would be for start cheaper than AH64E i suppose. But i am not sure on long run as there are not really many 1Zs around, so spares might become a bitch.

The AH64E doesn't fit in the Polish tender. It was never considered. The Poles wanted ToT for Tigre, they kinda got it, then it went to hell after the pussyfooting between France and Russia and when it appeared that Sikorsky wouldn't have any of that competitive shit. Factually the Viper will be MORE costly than the Tigre because the Poles will not  get a spare production line.

Also the Viper is not exactly a light attack Helicopter, it has twice the weight of the Tiger HAP, has lesser range than even the Tiger HAD and frankly will cost MORE down the years. But hey if Polsha wants to go that way...no problem.
Hell the AH64E is lighter and has more payload cap than the Viper. But none of my bid'ness.

Yeah i know it wasnt considered, but it would be better idea than Vipers at this point. Seems that Tiger has many issues these days, Australia and Germany are struggling to keep them flying.

The Tigre is slowly becoming a Unicorn. But Poland wanted it because they could squeeze ToT and build their own Franken Tiger. Turkey pulled the same deal with the T129. Poland wanted a newer platform than the A129I so basically there was only the Tiger or their own hideous Pzl-W3 SuperGlushec/Hussar in the 3ton category.

"Poland’s Ministry of Defense is aiming to acquire 24 Boeing AH-64 Apache helicopters under its ongoing tender to purchase new combat helicopters for the Polish Air Force. The procurement, dubbed the Kruk program, is most likely to be awarded to Boeing prior to the forthcoming NATO summit in Warsaw.

The forthcoming deal is estimated to be worth between 5 and 6 billion zloty (US $1.3 to $1.6 billion), according to the information obtained by the paper. The Kruk procurement was launched by Poland’s previous government as part of its military modernization program under which some 130 billion zloty was to be spent by 2022 on new weapons and military equipment.



However, Polish Defence Minister Antoni Macierewicz recently said the program was underfunded, and that if all of the acquisitions are carried out, the program will total at least 235 billion zloty."

Source: http://defence-blog.com/news/polands-ministry-of-defense-is-aiming-to-acquire-24-boeing-ah-64-apache-helicopters.html

Poland moves towards multi-billion-euro Patriot missile deal

Polish Defence Minister Antoni Macierewicz on Monday said he would ink a letter of intent with US defence firm Raytheon to buy a Patriot missile system valued at an estimated 5 billion euros ($5.6 billion).

The EU member's previous government had said in April it planned to buy the Patriot system, but soon after coming into power in November the current conservative administration placed a question mark over the purchase.

Macierewicz himself had said at the time: "The price is much higher, the delivery time much longer... in short, this contract is practically non-existent."

On Monday Macierewicz said Poland was able to move ahead with the plan because Raytheon had pledged that 50 percent of the missile system spending would be on works "done in Poland by Polish arms firms".

"That being the case, we're signing the letter of intent," Macierewicz said, quoted by the Polish news agency PAP.

He said that meant Raytheon would be the "most likely" maker of Poland's missile defence system.

The defence ministry had said in April that it wanted to acquire eight missile batteries by 2025, with two of them to be delivered within three years of signing a deal.

The Eurosam consortium including MBDA France, MBDA Italy and France's Thales Group had been the other party in the running for the missile deal

WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — Lockheed Martin Mission Systems and Training has received a $36.3 million contract to install and test new equipment at the US Aegis Ashore installation in Poland, the US Department of Defense announced.

"Lockheed Martin Mission Systems and Training, Moorestown, New Jersey, is being awarded a $36.3 million… contract for the installation, integration and testing of Aegis Ashore equipment in a deckhouse and deckhouse support building," the announcement said on Tuesday.

Work on the contract will be performed at the Aegis Ashore site in Poland, and is expected to be completed by December 31, 2018, the Defense Department added.

The Defense Department plans to arm its Aegis Ashore system to be deployed in Poland in 2018 with land-based Standard Missile-3 (SM-3) interceptors as part of the European missile shield.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160810/1044112449/lockheed-more-aegis-poland.html

Poland's Defense Minister Russia Responsible for 2010 Polish Plane Crash


Antoni Macierewicz, Poland's defense minister, has promised to present a new government report that he says “leaves no doubts” Russia is to blame for the 2010 plane crash that killed Polish president Lech Kaczyński.

“The actions of the Russian navigators and their Moscow decision makers had the aim to lead to the catastrophy of the Polish plane with president Lech Kaczyński and the whole delegation on-board,” Macierewicz told Polish newspaper Rzeczpospolita.

The government plane crashed near Russia's Smolensk airport in April 2010 whilst carrying the first official delegation to commemorate the 1940 Katyn massacre. The plane carried the Polish president, his wife, the country's central bank chief, several MPs, its most senior military and cultural figures.
Two independent investigations ruled that the crash was the result of a pilot error. The transcripts recovered from the plane's black box were made public and showed that the pilots of the Tupolev plane were under pressure by senior officials to land in poor visibility.

But Poland's ruling party Law and Justice (PiS), led by the late president's identical twin brother Jarosław Kaczyński, has long alleged that Moscow and former Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk hold some blame for the disaster. Macierewicz is the party figure most associated with trying to uncover the “truth” about what happened in Smolensk. Shortly after the crash, he put forward his theory of an explosion on board.

When PiS came to power late last year, it promised to re-open the probe into the crash. The new government commission started working in March. Today, Macierewicz promised to present a new report - “probably within the next month” - that he says will prove the Russians caused the crash.
“The choice is not if the Polish pilots were responsible for the Smolensk tragedy or if it was an assassination. The question is if the destruction of the presidential plane happened in the air because the plane was consciously allowed to fly with a technical fault, or if we were dealing with intentional actions with the aim of destroying the plane in the air,” Macierewicz said.

The crash is the worst national tragedy in modern Poland and has left deep scars on Polish politics and society.

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/polands-defense-minister-blames-russia-for-2010-polish-plane-crash-55199

Stay classy Poland.

Poland will purchase 70 aircraft cruise missiles, long-range JASSM-ER

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2294211.html

"Abrams" in Poland in the snow

Division 3rd Armored Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division of the US Army at the military exercises of the standard weapons M1 tanks "Abrams" and IFV "M2 Bradley" on Świętoszów range in Poland, January 2017









http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2390857.html

Poland received the first aircraft JASSM cruise missiles

According to Polish media and confirmed as the Deputy Minister of National Defence of Poland Bartosz Kovnyatsky in January 2017 from the US to Poland on 31st tactical air base in Krzesiny (Poznan), the first batch of purchased for the Polish Air Force US aviation tactical cruise missiles was delivered Lockheed Martin AGM-158a JASSM (Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missiles). The missiles are designed to equip fighter aircraft F-16C / D Block 52+ Polish Air Force.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2392422.html

Poland signed a memorandum on the acquisition of American anti-aircraft missile systems Patriot

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2715909.html

bored to death...

American notification about the planned delivery of the first four Patriot Patriot batteries to Poland

The Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) on November 14, 2017, sent a notice to the US Congress about the possible upcoming sale of the first four batteries of the Patriot anti-aircraft missile systems to Poland through the inter-governmental military sales of Foreign Military Sales (FMS) in the PAC- 3+ with the new integrated Air Defense and Missile Defense (IAMD) Battle Command System (IBCS). The sale is authorized by the US Department of State. The estimated cost of delivery is $ 10.5 billion.



The delivery is planned to be implemented in response to the request of the Polish government as the first stage of a two-stage program for the acquisition of Poland by the IBCS system with the Patriot PAC-3 + radar system. According to the notification, as a first step, Poland is expected to supply four AN / MPQ-65 radar, four battery control points, 16 M903 launchers, 208 MSE RAS-3 missiles, 11 MSE test missiles, 14 IBCS Engagement Operations Centers (EOCs) of various configurations, 15 Integrated Fire Control Network (IFCN) network sets, four EPP III field power plants and five multifunction Multifunctional Information Distribution Systems / Low Volume Terminals (MIDS / LVT). Also, the delivery will include the corresponding other equipment, personnel training and technical support services.

General contractors for the supply will be the corporation Raytheon, Lockheed Martin (the manufacturer of missiles RAS-3 MSE) and Northrop Grumman (producer IBCS).


On the bmpd side, we recall that on July 6, 2017, during the visit of US President Donald Trump to Poland in Warsaw, the Polish and American sides signed a memorandum on the acquisition by Poland of US Patriot patrol boats. According to the memorandum, by the end of 2017, the parties must agree on all conditions for technology transfer and offset programs in the framework of the acquisition of the Patriot SAR, after which at the end of the year, direct contractual agreements on FMS can be concluded in the form of an exchange between the governments Letters of Offer and Acceptance Letters of Offer and Acceptance (LOA).

In accordance with the official request submitted by the Polish government in early 2017, Poland plans to buy eight Patriot batteries, which have anti-missile capabilities with the additionally added anti-missiles Raytheon SkyCeptor (variant of Rafael / Raytheon Stunner missiles used in the Israeli missile defense complex Kela David, David's Sling). These interceptors in the Polish system are primarily designed to intercept ballistic missiles of Russian operational-tactical complexes Iskander-M. Also, the Polish Patriot SAMs should be equipped with a new air defense and air defense control system IBCS, created by Norhrop Grumman Corporation in the interests of the US Army.

It was reported that in the framework of the Polish two-stage plan for the acquisition of the Patriot missile system, at the first stage, the agreement on which Poland is determined to conclude by the end of 2017, two Patriot batteries with the current AN / MPQ-65 radar and the PAC-3 MSE four M903 launchers in each battery) to be delivered to Poland in 2022 (the expected time frame for the introduction of the IBCS system), with the achievement of their combat readiness in 2023.

The agreements of the second stage should be finalized by the end of 2018 and should include the supply to Poland from 2024 of six Patriot batteries, equipped with a prospective round-robin radar (which the US Army should only choose to develop under the LTAMDS program) and SkyCeptor anti-missiles.

Observers from the very beginning have noted that when ordering the Patriot missile system in a prospective combination with IBCS, the radar of the circular survey and the SkyCeptor anti-missile system, Poland requires complexes that do not yet exist in nature, which creates significant technical, cost and temporary risks for the Polish program of acquiring these systems.

Judging by the promulgated notice, now the plans for the delivery of Patriot Poles to Poland have been revised, and in the first stage the USA proposes to supply the Poles with four batteries with AN / MPQ-65 standard radar and MPE-3 antiaircraft missiles.

At the same time, the 14 command posts of the IBCS system planned for delivery are intended to ensure the integration and operation of the entire prospective air defense and missile defense system of Poland to be deployed, which explains the high cost of the anticipated delivery of the first stage.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2959784.html

The Turks

Poland will be supplied with an additional 150 missiles AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2977259.html


US plans to supply Poland with HIMARS missiles
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2976894.html

George1 wrote:Poland will be supplied with an additional 150 missiles AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2977259.html


US plans to supply Poland with HIMARS missiles
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2976894.html

U.S. does not supply anything to Poland, as in "supply for free." I think what you mean is the U.S. sold it to Poland.

U.S. forces the Polish government to buy their military equipment often at very inflated prices, like those guided missiles which Poland bought for a price seven times greater than that purchased by Finland, despite them being the same thing.


Oh, I forgot to mention that the U.S. Navy gave its Polish counterpart two used frigates back in the early 2000's, but these are the type of ships that are sunk off the coasts of the North America to create artificial "reefs" for scuba divers to explore. It was also likely done to encourage Poland to participate in the "War on Terrorism." Also, these two "presents" did not help the Polish shipyards, that were already in the process of being demolished by Germany. Bear Grylls filmed one of his "survival in the wild" episodes in one of these in Gdynia (I think that episode dealt with urban survival). The abandoned shipyard's "scenery" was rather apocalyptic indeed.


Years ago Germany gave for free to Poland some used obsolete tanks which the German military no longer uses (the Germans saved themselves the scraping costs), and also some worn-out MiG-29 jets, but that is all the military equipment Poland ever got from the West for free, besides the two American naval vessels.


Also I already mentioned that only two of the Polish Air Force's F-16 jets are fully armed.

On March 28, 2018 in Poland, Polish National Defense Minister Mariusz Blaschak and US Ambassador to Poland Paul W. Jones signed a contract (in the form of an exchange between the governments Letters of Offer and Acceptance (LOA)) for the supply to Poland through the inter-governmental military sales of Foreign Military Sales (FMS) of the first two batteries of US Patriot anti-aircraft missile systems in the PAC-3 + configuration with the new integrated Air Defense and Missile Defense (IAMD) Battle Command System (IBCS). The contract value is 4.75 billion dollars (about 16.1 billion Polish zlotys), which makes it the largest import purchase of weapons in Polish history.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3138861.html

Polish Government is Offering the U.S. $2 Billion to Support American Troops in Poland


http://www.newsweek.com/russia-warns-us-expansionist-actions-poland-could-lead-counter-action-kremlin-946359



I cannot believe the level of subservience of these puppets, there were rumors in Poland that Trump was planning something like that after he got elected, but now the rumors turned out to be true.

Of course, the Polish government is officially "offering" the money, but in reality they were very much pressured into the whole "deal."

Like the U.S. is too poor to pay for its own troops? Is Poland really that rich?

There is no money in Poland for many important things but for the Ukrainians and the U.S. troops there is always enough.

Banana Republic in the center of Europe.

Poland will receive 20 combat vehicles of the American missile complex HIMARS

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3434664.html

Polish president expects decision on US military base to be made in spring

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1037369

These eastern Europeans . Why a rush to join NATO ? Why allow CIA rendition and torture on their soil? Why allow ABM to be stationed ? Why a provocation to start a war against Russia ? Why fabricate evidence against Chinese firm for spying ? Why allow anti - Iran meeting ?

The group that is in power , is poverty stricken . In the service of western liberal agenda . The military industrial complex . Their paymaster the CIA . Iranians in general are friendly with eastern Europeans . They are wrong . I am Iranian . I know them better . Something wrong with their culture . Polish ! Ukrainians ! For a fistful of Dollars ! Retaliation against these servile slaves is justified !

Things are easier when you can blame a foreign power for all your problems... Russia had no money to throw around, and the US did... of course this might change over the next decade or two.... but by then why would Russia trust them?

Lots of other countries that need financial assistance that have not said bad things about Russia and could be good trading partners for the future...

@GarryB

Most nations have the potential to act in aggressive manner . As do most people . But not all do . Here I used poverty as a very loose term to describe an existing political culture . This develops over decades or centuries . It crystallises into a national consciousness . Moral standards . Stories that parents tell to children , when they are young . I am sure here there are lots more people with better understanding than me . About political situation in Poland . But I always think about my cat . It has never fallen off a tree branch , that it crosses regularly . Why ? He never trusts the branch to support it's weight ! Although he crossed it ten thousand times ! He always tests it first . By pushing on it a little first !