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    Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:13 am

    the real argument made, the US having more pull in the field.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:42 am

    KiloGolf wrote:

    the real argument made, the US having more pull in the field.

    Delta IV has ever carried more on LEO than Proton-M? when more then 21 tons?


    Source: Russia after 2020 will offer UAE flights of their citizens to the ISS

    https://ria.ru/space/20180621/1523108196.html
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:52 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:

    the real argument made, the US having more pull in the field.

    Delta IV has ever carried more on LEO than Proton-M? when more then 21 tons?

    It has the capability to do so, hence more pull. The fact that it did not is purely market-related.
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:14 am

    KiloGolf wrote:
    It has the capability to do so, hence more pull. The fact that it did not is purely market-related.

    So facts are
    a) Delta has so far ued only up to 21 tons LEO capacity
    b) Proton-M LEO is 23 tons Delta according to wiki 23 (68) or 26 (68A engine). is this soo much more for a newer rocket?
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:41 am

    KiloGolf wrote:Yeap, cause you had nothing to counter the real argument made, the US having more pull in the field.

    No counter?  The fact that Russia has its own stable of indigenously developed space launchers that satisfy 100% of Russian requirements, whether it is national security payloads or civilian birds? That Russia can guarantee its access to space despite any conceivable action from those arrogant dikwads in Washington or Brussels?  That Russia is one of only 2 nations that can currently put human into space? I find it hilarious that people like you constantly harangue and disparage Russian competencies and capabilities, yet come from a country that cannot launch a firecracker above 1,000m without help....

    Yeah sure, console yourself with past glories from ~2000 years ago when Greece was a civilisational harbinger of classic enlightment.  These days, you guys excel at nothing but running up obscene debt, making Souvlaki, and conceding territory to the Turks.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:00 am

    https://ria.ru/space/20180622/1523187734.html?referrer_block=index_main_5

    Rogozin has announced the end of the Proton. The current round of contracts will be completed by construction will
    stop as they dry up and the final move to the Angara will be made.

    I think it is about time. The Proton is a waste of money since it does not have the economies of scale, unlike the
    Angara.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:26 am

    kvs wrote:https://ria.ru/space/20180622/1523187734.html?referrer_block=index_main_5

    Rogozin has announced the end of the Proton.   The current round of contracts will be completed by construction will
    stop as they dry up and the final move to the Angara will be made.

    I think it is about time.   The Proton is a waste of money since it does not have the economies of scale, unlike the
    Angara.


    Fucking finally!!! pwnd
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  KiloGolf on Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:26 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    It has the capability to do so, hence more pull. The fact that it did not is purely market-related.

    So facts are
    a) Delta has so far ued only up to 21 tons LEO capacity
    b) Proton-M LEO is 23 tons Delta according to wiki 23 (68) or 26 (68A engine). is this soo much more for a newer rocket?

    a) D4H: 28,370 kg LEO
    b) D4H: 14,210 kg GTO
    c) D4H > Proton-M
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:57 am

    KiloGolf wrote:

    a) D4H: 28,370 kg LEO

    So rocket from 2011 is 20% better then old Soviet design slightly improved in 2001! wo 20% for billions and 10 years and wait only theoretical.  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
    Below you have

    facts not empty marketing words:

    this clearly shows Russian rocket in real applications was better then Delta IV and 13 years before.
    Facts not promises count right?

    Delta IV Heavy since 2004 United States ULA ~21,000 kg (46,000 lb)[8][a]Orion EFT-1 5 December 2014
    Proton-M since 2001[c] Russia Khrunichev 22,776 kg (50,212 lb) 12 July 2000



    lol1 lol1 lol1



    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:07 am

    kvs wrote:
    I think it is about time.   The Proton is a waste of money since it does not have the economies of scale, unlike the
    Angara.
    + Angara as modular design and less toxic fuel has better PR too.


    I just wonder if there will be Angara 100 build as well or only Soyuz 6 heavy toll be basic carrier rocket of Russian federation?
    The questions is would Baikal replace URM boosters?

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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:52 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    I think it is about time.   The Proton is a waste of money since it does not have the economies of scale, unlike the
    Angara.
    + Angara as  modular design and less toxic fuel has better PR too.


    I just wonder if there will be Angara 100 build as well or only Soyuz 6 heavy toll be basic carrier rocket of Russian federation?
    The questions is would  Baikal replace URM boosters?


    Angara 100 is just Krunichev PR, same as Angara A-7. Self promotional stuff, not to be taken seriously in the absence of any federal gov interest. Soyuz 5 will fulfill the 17T slot and be the basis for clusters for 80T and greater. A-5 will fulfill the 25T slot, with further upgrades increasing this to 35T and upwards.

    Fly-back strap-on concept was originally envisioned as part of the re-usability upgrades for the Energia/Buran/Vulkan family, but was shrunk down to Baikal post-USSR to be a fit for Angara. I'd expect that any operational Baikal would supplement URMs, not replace.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:08 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Delta IV Heavy since 2004 United States ULA ~21,000 kg (46,000 lb)[8][a]Orion EFT-1 5 December 2014
    Proton-M since 2001[c] Russia Khrunichev 22,776 kg (50,212 lb) 12 July 2000

    Nope, we're talking specs. D4H > Proton-M
    Cargo is always confo for most Delta missions as it's not a NASA rocket, so nobody needs to brag. This isn't a field where marketing has any relevance. The actual system is just more capable than anything Russians field.

    D4H is a frickin beast. welcome





    https://www.ulalaunch.com/rockets/delta-iv
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:43 am

    D4H lifts 25,980 kgs to LEO @ 51.6 degrees
    Proton-M lifts 23,000 kgs to LEO @ 51.5 degrees

    DH4 leads by ~3T...

    On the other hand...

    DH4 costs 350M. Proton costs 65M.
    DH4 uses hydrolox on all stages. Proton uses lower energy hypergolics.
    DH4 first flew in 2004. Proton-M first flew in 2001, though its basic design first flew in 1965.

    Meh... comparative dick-measuring is rarely a useful activity... Bottom line is Proton does what it was intended to do. DH4 does it better, but at more than 6x the cost.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:16 am


    Important thing is that Proton is finally getting the boot so can we please stop wasting time here?

    Besides, neither Proton nor Delta are Angara so it's all off-topic anyway...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:01 pm

    I am posting this in part so people don't have to click on that Mars BS tread:

    Roscosmos: the Observatory "Spectr-UV" is planned to be launched from Vostochnii using Angara in 2024

    http://tass.ru/kosmos/5332773

    Originally it was supposed to be in 2021 using Proton from Baikonur but Trampoline Man probably decided to stick it to Krunichev and do Angara/Vostochnii combo instead

    One of rare situations where I approve of delay thumbsup
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:58 pm

    Russia begins work on Soyuz-5 carries rocket

    More:
    http://tass.com/science/1014404
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:19 pm

    https://www.rt.com/news/433955-roscosmos-heavy-rocket-soyuz/

    Tsar-rocket: Russia starts developing ultra-heavy Soyuz-5 launch vehicle
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:36 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/433955-roscosmos-heavy-rocket-soyuz/

    Tsar-rocket: Russia starts developing ultra-heavy Soyuz-5 launch vehicle

    The article has a gross error

    Sources say the 62-meter-long Soyuz-5 is drafted as a medium-capacity launcher with a takeoff mass of about 270 tons. It will replace the lighter Soyuz-2 and will be capable of delivering 9 tons to a low orbit, three times as much as the latest Soyuz-2.1b can do now.

    The Soyuz-5 is a Zenit replacement using the RD-171 four nozzle engine. Its payload to LEO is over 17 tons and not 9.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:39 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/433955-roscosmos-heavy-rocket-soyuz/

    Tsar-rocket: Russia starts developing ultra-heavy Soyuz-5 launch vehicle

    They started developing many things over the years, signed many papers, published many concept arts and even made some scale models.

    Let's hope that whoever is working on this project is more intelligent than person who wrote this article because other than last paragraph everything else there is factually incorrect.

    And using phrase "tsar-something" doesn't make them look witty, that joke is century past expiration date.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:42 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/433955-roscosmos-heavy-rocket-soyuz/

    Tsar-rocket: Russia starts developing ultra-heavy Soyuz-5 launch vehicle

    Skewing reality there, it's merely a ''we're working on it, sir" after Vlad had a go at them.

    Putin challenges Roscosmos to “drastically improve” on space and launch

    WASHINGTON — Russian President Vladimir Putin called on Roscosmos to meet deadlines for the nation’s future Angara, Soyuz-5 and “super-heavy class” rockets while fixing quality-control issues that have dogged Russian spacecraft and launch vehicles in recent years.

    According to the Kremlin’s published transcript of Putin’s remarks during a July 18 meeting with the state-run space corporation Roscosmos, Putin said it “is necessary to drastically improve the quality and reliability of space and launch vehicles” and to preserve Russia’s increasingly threatened leadership in space.

    https://spacenews.com/putin-challenges-roscosmos-to-drastically-improve-on-space-and-launch/

    If they don't change course, Soyuz-5 will be mathematically over-budget and late.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:46 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/433955-roscosmos-heavy-rocket-soyuz/

    Tsar-rocket: Russia starts developing ultra-heavy Soyuz-5 launch vehicle

    They started developing many things over the years, signed many papers, published many concept arts and even made some scale models.

    Let's hope that whoever is working on this project is more intelligent than person who wrote this article because other than last paragraph everything else there is factually incorrect.

    And using phrase "tsar-something" doesn't make them look witty, that joke is century past expiration date.

    What do you expect? It's RT.

    Tass one is better read.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:48 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/433955-roscosmos-heavy-rocket-soyuz/

    Tsar-rocket: Russia starts developing ultra-heavy Soyuz-5 launch vehicle

    They started developing many things over the years, signed many papers, published many concept arts and even made some scale models.

    Let's hope that whoever is working on this project is more intelligent than person who wrote this article because other than last paragraph everything else there is factually incorrect.

    And using phrase "tsar-something" doesn't make them look witty, that joke is century past expiration date.

    What do you expect? It's RT.

    Tass one is better read.

    It's sugar-coated propaganda, after Putin pulled some ears on the 18th July.
    They are late and wasting money all over. This is bad news, nothing has changed..

    "started developing" lol1
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:53 pm

    the fuck you talking about?  It wasn't even in that stage prior.  It was all talk.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:10 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:the fuck you talking about?  It wasn't even in that stage prior.  It was all talk.

    It still is talk, no milestone reached yet on Soyuz-5.
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    AlfaT8

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:32 pm

    Well that escalated quickly.

    Anyway, i am just happy they finally made a decision,....... hopefully.

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