Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Share
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10222
    Points : 10710
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:06 pm

    Russian Space Agency to Equip Zenit Rocket With Methane Engine

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160114/1033148717/rocket-engine-report-methane.html#ixzz3xKGIREu5


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5006
    Points : 5114
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:08 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian Space Agency to Equip Zenit Rocket With Methane Engine

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160114/1033148717/rocket-engine-report-methane.html#ixzz3xKGIREu5

    So, Fenix is modification of Zenit now, or are those two completely separate projects?
    avatar
    Rmf

    Posts : 502
    Points : 489
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:58 pm

    well i was advocate for zenit , it is compact and self diagnostic rocket ,as a booster it can carry 100 tonns to orbit , methane could be usefull for mars missions because you could synthesize fuel with nuclear power ,nice video -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1MIAdBpZFA
    so phoenix could be energia with methane engines
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5006
    Points : 5114
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:35 pm

    Rmf wrote:well i was advocate for zenit , it is compact and self diagnostic rocket ,as a booster it can carry 100 tonns to orbit , methane could be usefull for mars missions because you could synthesize fuel with nuclear power ,nice video -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1MIAdBpZFA
    so phoenix could be energia with methane engines

    If Fenix is properly upgraded Zenit then it is fine in my book. Angara has excellent self diagnostic system (proven in practice) and they can use it as basis for one on Fenix.

    If they can save time and money with getting desired results then go for it.

    But for Mars trip chemical rockets are dead-end in my book. Those distances require ion engine/nuclear reactor combo. We are talking about difference between 6 months (ion engine) and at least 3,5 years (rocket) trip under ideal circumstances, maybe even longer.
    avatar
    Rmf

    Posts : 502
    Points : 489
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:37 am

    liftoff from mars or earth will always require chemical rocket propulsion, but for a cruiser ship/orbital station between earth-mars you can use plasma or ion engines agreed.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5006
    Points : 5114
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:32 am

    Rmf wrote:liftoff from mars or earth will always require chemical rocket propulsion, but for a cruiser ship/orbital station between earth-mars you can use plasma or ion engines agreed.

    Goes without saying.
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 710
    Points : 730
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:10 am

    Soyuz successor named!

    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/ptk-2015.html#name

    "On August 26, Roskosmos announced a contest for a new name for the spacecraft, which included a public poll coducted from December 4 to December 23. The results approved by a jury chaired by the head of Roskosmos Igor Komarov were announced only on January 15, 2016. The new ship would be named Federatsiya, a Russian word for "federation." Referring to the political structure of the Russian state, the name continued a tradition of the Soyuz spacecraft, whose name meant "union," reflecting the official name of the Soviet state -- the Soviet Union. Runner-up names in the contest, such as Gagarin and Vektor, were reserved for future space projects, the agency's announcement said.

    The public reaction on social media was very mixed: critics noted that the name is long, phonetically unpleasant and has a good chance of being abbreviated to something unceremonious like "Fed." In addition, the name could present a potential minefield of various negative political connotations coming from the technical context, such as separation, delays and other problems."

    How typical of 5th-columnist Zak to throw this little bitchy smear into the mix. "Federatsiya" was chosen by a public contest, yet we are supposed to believe that a majority decision isn't well received on social media? This guy seems to be incapable of reporting on the Russian space program without injecting his personal bias.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5006
    Points : 5114
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:25 am


    Federation would not be my choice and was not most popular option but was pretty high up nonetheless. I assume they are keeping Gagarin for something really big down the road and want to keep Soyuz ''tradition'' in some form. Only thing that would make sense because Gagarin was winner by wide margin.

    As for Anatoly Zak, that clown is Julian Roepke of space journalism. (If what they both do can even be called journalism)
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 710
    Points : 730
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:42 am

    Rmf wrote:well i was advocate for zenit , it is compact and self diagnostic rocket ,as a booster it can carry 100 tonns to orbit , methane could be usefull for mars missions because you could synthesize fuel with nuclear power ,nice video -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1MIAdBpZFA
    so phoenix could be energia with methane engines

    Agree 100%. Zenit is an excellent vehicle, its just a huge pity that is was manufactured in Ukraine.... If Russia was to modernise the design and manufacture, fit it with Methalox engines, and develop the long-planned re-usability provisions then it would be a great basis for a future (heavy) Soyuz replacement, Angara competitor (*) and as a strap-on for a future SHLV as it was with the hydrolox Energia core. I have to say I REALLY like Methane as a fuel, mainly because it doesn't cause coking like kerosene does, and therefore make reuseability much easier, but also it is cheap and very plentiful, especially for Russia with its VAST reserves of natural gas.

    (*) when I say "competitor" I mean in terms of an alternative capability to guarantee Russian access to space in the event of some future issues with the Khunichev product. I consider it important to have two independent launcher manufacturers, each with a current in-service product that duplicates the capabilities of the other. The US doesn't look to be abandoning either the Delta or Titan EELVs, probably because the USAF insists on a duplication of launch providers. A wise decision on their part, and one that Russia should adopt also.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5006
    Points : 5114
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:19 pm


    thumbsup russia

    Rocket Science: Russia Builds Atomic Engine for Exploring Distant Space

    The Russian Federal Space Agency has presented its ten-year development plan, which includes the construction of a prototype engine powered by atomic energy, able to power a spacecraft on expeditions into the far reaches of the galaxy.


    http://sputniknews.com/science/20160118/1033313127/russia-spacecraft-nuclear-power.html

    The Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos) has presented its ten-year development plan to the Russian government, which includes the construction of a prototype engine that uses a nuclear reactor to propel it on expeditions into distant space.

    "All the work on the construction of the atomic engine is ongoing, in accordance with planned timescales. We can say with a large amount of certainty that the work will be completed within the provided timescale," Andrey Ivanov, a spokesman for Rosatom, Russia's State Atomic Energy Corporation, told Izvestiya.

    The project is part of the 2016-2025 Federal Space Program, which Roscosmos has recently presented to the Russian government for approval.

    Andrey Ionin of Russia's Tsiolkovskiy Cosmonautical Academy told Izvestiya that the program envisions a wider plan for space exploration, which will guide the direction of the engine's construction.

    "It is clear that an atomic engine is necessary only for exploration of distant space," said Ionin.

    "Projects like the creation of an atomic engine have to take place in the context of a larger project, in order to precisely understand what exactly we are making such a powerful energy source for."

    On Monday, Rosatom revealed that some aspects of the engine's construction are already underway.

    "Two important stages of the project have recently been carried out," said Ivanov.

    "Testing of the reactor's casing has been successfully completed. This testing subjected the casing to excessive pressure and took 3D measurements of the metal, welding and conical intersection."

    In addition, "A unique fuel element has been constructed which allows the engine to work in high temperatures, in large temperature gradients, and high doses of radiation," said Ivanov.

    Currently, space probes such as NASA's Voyager and Pioneer spacecraft use Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTG) to convert heat from radioactive plutonium-238 into useful electricity.

    These atomic batteries have been used since the 1960s to power long-term, unmanned, space missions to the dark, distant reaches of the solar system, or to the night side of planets where solar cells are not practical. When it was launched in 1977 Voyager 1's three RTG's produced about 470 watts of electric power, with the power output degrading over time.


    avatar
    Rmf

    Posts : 502
    Points : 489
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:45 am

    actually Yuri is more apealing name to me then Gagarin , but i guess they could some deep space human vehicle not ptk capsule
    avatar
    Rmf

    Posts : 502
    Points : 489
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:51 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Rmf wrote:well i was advocate for zenit , it is compact and self diagnostic rocket ,as a booster it can carry 100 tonns to orbit , methane could be usefull for mars missions because you could synthesize fuel with nuclear power ,nice video -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1MIAdBpZFA
    so phoenix could be energia with methane engines

    Agree 100%.  Zenit is an excellent vehicle, its just a huge pity that is was manufactured in Ukraine....  If Russia was to modernise the design and manufacture, fit it with Methalox engines, and develop the long-planned re-usability provisions then it would be a great basis for a future (heavy) Soyuz replacement, Angara competitor (*) and as a strap-on for a future SHLV as it was with the hydrolox Energia core.  I have to say I REALLY like Methane as a fuel, mainly because it doesn't cause coking like kerosene does, and therefore make reuseability much easier, but also it is cheap and very plentiful, especially for Russia with its VAST reserves of natural gas.

    (*) when I say "competitor" I mean in terms of an alternative capability to guarantee Russian access to space in the event of some future issues with the Khunichev product.  I consider it important to have two independent launcher manufacturers, each with a current in-service product that duplicates the capabilities of the other.  The US doesn't look to be abandoning either the Delta or Titan EELVs, probably because the USAF insists on a duplication of launch providers.  A wise decision on their part, and one that Russia should adopt also.

    space x is still work in progress it will get better im sure. methane is interesting since there is allot in universe of it it seems and its stable, or can be synthesised with CO2 and H20.
    its simplest organic molecule CH4. so lost of hydrogen and high isp. its isp is lower then expected because it takes energy to break carbon -hydrogen bonds.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5006
    Points : 5114
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:32 pm


    Russia to spend over $300 million on developing super heavy rocket

    The prototypes and technology for the creation of the key elements of the super heavy class launch vehicle is expected to be developed by 2025

    http://tass.ru/en/science/850822
    avatar
    Rmf

    Posts : 502
    Points : 489
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:51 pm

    some proposals in comparison , total mass/ payload to leo

    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5006
    Points : 5114
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:51 pm

    Rmf wrote:some proposals in comparison , total mass/ payload to leo


    Is that official? Also, would Lena use Angara engine? If yes than that would be most economic approach by far. RD-191 will be built on assembly line in Omsk, one engine to rule them all. Cool
    avatar
    Rmf

    Posts : 502
    Points : 489
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:23 pm

    Russia's Angara5v may not have enough launch capacity for robust lunar missions.
    If Russia really wants a more capable rocket for lunar missions, it needs a Zenit Heavy.
    Admittedly the RD-171 engine isn't the most reliable or highest build quality, but if you were to substitute in four higher-quality rd-191 engines per core, you could get engine-out reliability.  It'd also let NPO Energomash max out RD-191 production numbers.  A Zenit Heavy (kerosine or methane version) ought to lift more to TLI than an Angara 5v even before adding in a LH2 upper stage.  This would be a much easier option than building an all-new mega rocket.
    that energia -5kv with 105,3t to leo is interesting with 5 zenit in booster core ,and hydrogen 2nd stage.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 5006
    Points : 5114
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:47 pm

    Rmf wrote:Russia's Angara5v may not have enough launch capacity for robust lunar missions.
    If Russia really wants a more capable rocket for lunar missions, it needs a Zenit Heavy.
    Admittedly the RD-171 engine isn't the most reliable or highest build quality, but if you were to substitute in four higher-quality rd-191 engines per core, you could get engine-out reliability.  It'd also let NPO Energomash max out RD-191 production numbers.  A Zenit Heavy (kerosine or methane version) ought to lift more to TLI than an Angara 5v even before adding in a LH2 upper stage.  This would be a much easier option than building an all-new mega rocket.
    that energia -5kv with 105,3t to leo is interesting with 5 zenit in booster core ,and hydrogen 2nd stage.

    LH2 Angara upper stage is on ice for now, probably permanently. Makes sense because that version was supposed to act as replacement for super-heavy rocket when it was suspended but with Fenix project now in development there is no pressing need for it anymore.

    Angara5 & Federation capsule (PTK/NP, might as well start using official new name from now on) will service LEO.

    Federation capsule & Fenix super heavy (whichever option they go with) will be used for flights beyond Earth's orbit. And heavy cargo of course.
    avatar
    Book.

    Posts : 704
    Points : 767
    Join date : 2015-05-08
    Location : Oregon, USA

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Book. on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:29 pm

    Russia’s new manned spacecraft to be 3.5 times cheaper than US Dragon
    Russian Aviaton » Sunday January 24, 2016 13:18 MSK

    http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2016/1/24/4767/


    Russia’s State Corporation Roscosmos intends to spend over 58 billion rubles ($734 million) on a new manned spacecraft or 3.5 times less than NASA has allocated to SpaceX on the Dragon space vehicle, according to a document published on Friday.

    The funds for the project to develop the new manned spacecraft called Federation are stipulated in a draft federal space program for 2016-2025 prepared for submission to the Russian government.

    Under the document, 58 billion rubles will be spent on R&D work to develop the ‘promising manned transport system’ through 2025, or 8 billion rubles ($101 million) less than was planned last year.

    As was reported earlier, SpaceX will receive $2.6 billion from NASA to develop the Dragon 2 manned spaceship. Meanwhile, the development of the new Russian space vehicle will cost just $734 million.

    Russia plans to launch the Federation space vehicle in 2021. Subsequent launches to the International Space Station in the manned and unmanned modes are scheduled for 2023.

    A space vehicle to fly around the Moon will be created in 2024-2025 and the flight is planned after 2025. The previous draft federal space program stipulated financing in the amount of 66.689 billion rubles ($844 million) before budget cuts.

    The manned flight to the International Space Station was planned in 2024 and the spacecraft was expected to fly around the Moon in 2025. The promising new-generation transport spaceship developed by Energiya Rocket and Space Corporation is designed to deliver humans and cargoes to the Moon and near-Earth orbital stations The spacecraft will have a crew of up to four persons.

    The new space vehicle will be able to operate autonomously for up to 30 days and its flight as part of an orbital station can last up to one year. The Angara-A5V heavy-class rocket is expected for use to deliver the new spacecraft into orbit.

    Low the cost russia
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10222
    Points : 10710
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:45 pm

    Media reports said earlier that Russia’s Defense Ministry planned to give up the use of Rokot carrier rockets in favor of the Angara-1.2 and Soyuz-2.1v light carrier rockets

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/854018


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 710
    Points : 730
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:20 am

    George1 wrote:Media reports said earlier that Russia’s Defense Ministry planned to give up the use of Rokot carrier rockets in favor of the Angara-1.2 and Soyuz-2.1v light carrier rockets

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/854018
    Good decision. Abandon ANY use of Ukropistani-origin hardware, and sever any and all sources of revenue from Soviet-era related legacy hardware.

    Its a bit of a pity as there is little more spectacular than watching a Dnepr launcher pop out of his (her?) silo and ignite the engines while hanging in the sky... a blast and a roar and away it goes with megatons of thermonuclear death all gift-wrapped for the US Elite parasites... errr, wait... make that a satellite payload.... /snark off
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10222
    Points : 10710
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:09 am

    Russia is completing a new secret plant for producing hydrazine, a fuel for spacecraft. Foreign supplies of hydrazine, which Russia previously relied upon, are banned under western sanctions due to the fact that this fuel can be used in military programs.

    http://rbth.com/science_and_tech/2016/03/03/sanctions-convince-russia-to-produce-its-own-rocket-fuel_572783


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 710
    Points : 730
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:29 am

    George1 wrote:
    Russia is completing a new secret plant for producing hydrazine, a fuel for spacecraft. Foreign supplies of hydrazine, which Russia previously relied upon, are banned under western sanctions due to the fact that this fuel can be used in military programs.

    http://rbth.com/science_and_tech/2016/03/03/sanctions-convince-russia-to-produce-its-own-rocket-fuel_572783

    I find it extremely hard to believe that Russia needs to rely on foreign suppliers of hydrazine, especially given its military uses in hypergolic engines used in much of their strategic missile force?  What about N2O4 oxidiser?

    Also, the article states the new plant will produce 15T a year, which is absurdly inadequate - 15,000T a year I could believe.  I despair of shoddy techno-illiterate journalists...
    avatar
    George1

    Posts : 10222
    Points : 10710
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:09 pm

    Russia to develop new Fenix carrier rocket by 2025

    Fenix will be the first stage for a promising super-heavy carrier rocket

    MOSCOW, March 30. /TASS/. Russia’s Space Corporation Roscosmos plans to expedite the development of a new medium-class carrier rocket Fenix to make it ready by 2025, Roscosmos Head Igor Komarov said on Wednesday.

    "The timeframe is until 2025. During this year [2016], we’ll again analyze, on which basis the rocket will be made. We have the intentions to make it until 2025. We see that the market and life require expediting this project," Komarov said.

    The Roscosmos CEO said earlier on Wednesday that Fenix "will be the first stage for a promising super-heavy carrier rocket."
    Russia’s super-heavy rocket project not to pay back

    According to Komarov, Russia’s super-heavy carrier rocket project will not pay back, as the real consumers for it will appear in about a decade.

    "[The project] will definitely not pay back," he said.

    According to Komarov, "There will be no real consumers over the next 10 years" for this rocket. "There will be no commercial use (of the carrier rocket) much longer - for 15-20 [years], I think," said the Roscosmos chief.

    He also said that the country’s Federal Space Program for 2016-2025 envisages no payloads requiring a super-heavy class rocket.

    Komarov added that Russia has the technology to implement this project. The development of the medium-class rocket Fenix (Phoenix) is the beginning of "the thorny path towards the creation of a super-heavy class launch vehicle," the Roscosmos head said. He said earlier on Wednesday that Fenix will be used as the super-heavy rocket’s first stage.

    Roscosmos is expected to spend about 30 billion rubles ($440 million) on the Fenix development. According to preliminary data, the carrier rocket should be a single-block space vehicle capable of delivering at least 9 tons of payloads into the low near-Earth orbit. The Feniks carrier rocket will fire liquefied natural gas. It was reported earlier that the R&D work on the new carrier rocket could start in 2017 or 2018.


    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/866046


    _________________
    "There's no smoke without fire.", Georgy Zhukov

    avatar
    Rmf

    Posts : 502
    Points : 489
    Join date : 2013-05-30

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:07 pm

    phoenix seems like duplication to angara.
    avatar
    Morpheus Eberhardt

    Posts : 1945
    Points : 2066
    Join date : 2013-05-20

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:54 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:I find it extremely hard to believe that Russia needs to rely on foreign suppliers of hydrazine, ...

    I agree with your point here; however, it is the UDMH that is used in large volumes in Russia. Russia's use of hydrazine as a rocket propellant is probably very limited and is probably only for some niche upper stage/payload applications. They have also been probably using many replacements for hydrazine, both in rocketry and in its other applications.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:39 am