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    Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:45 am

    actually Yuri is more apealing name to me then Gagarin , but i guess they could some deep space human vehicle not ptk capsule
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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:51 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Rmf wrote:well i was advocate for zenit , it is compact and self diagnostic rocket ,as a booster it can carry 100 tonns to orbit , methane could be usefull for mars missions because you could synthesize fuel with nuclear power ,nice video -
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1MIAdBpZFA
    so phoenix could be energia with methane engines

    Agree 100%.  Zenit is an excellent vehicle, its just a huge pity that is was manufactured in Ukraine....  If Russia was to modernise the design and manufacture, fit it with Methalox engines, and develop the long-planned re-usability provisions then it would be a great basis for a future (heavy) Soyuz replacement, Angara competitor (*) and as a strap-on for a future SHLV as it was with the hydrolox Energia core.  I have to say I REALLY like Methane as a fuel, mainly because it doesn't cause coking like kerosene does, and therefore make reuseability much easier, but also it is cheap and very plentiful, especially for Russia with its VAST reserves of natural gas.

    (*) when I say "competitor" I mean in terms of an alternative capability to guarantee Russian access to space in the event of some future issues with the Khunichev product.  I consider it important to have two independent launcher manufacturers, each with a current in-service product that duplicates the capabilities of the other.  The US doesn't look to be abandoning either the Delta or Titan EELVs, probably because the USAF insists on a duplication of launch providers.  A wise decision on their part, and one that Russia should adopt also.

    space x is still work in progress it will get better im sure. methane is interesting since there is allot in universe of it it seems and its stable, or can be synthesised with CO2 and H20.
    its simplest organic molecule CH4. so lost of hydrogen and high isp. its isp is lower then expected because it takes energy to break carbon -hydrogen bonds.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:32 pm


    Russia to spend over $300 million on developing super heavy rocket

    The prototypes and technology for the creation of the key elements of the super heavy class launch vehicle is expected to be developed by 2025

    http://tass.ru/en/science/850822
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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:51 pm

    some proposals in comparison , total mass/ payload to leo

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:51 pm

    Rmf wrote:some proposals in comparison , total mass/ payload to leo


    Is that official? Also, would Lena use Angara engine? If yes than that would be most economic approach by far. RD-191 will be built on assembly line in Omsk, one engine to rule them all. Cool
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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:23 pm

    Russia's Angara5v may not have enough launch capacity for robust lunar missions.
    If Russia really wants a more capable rocket for lunar missions, it needs a Zenit Heavy.
    Admittedly the RD-171 engine isn't the most reliable or highest build quality, but if you were to substitute in four higher-quality rd-191 engines per core, you could get engine-out reliability.  It'd also let NPO Energomash max out RD-191 production numbers.  A Zenit Heavy (kerosine or methane version) ought to lift more to TLI than an Angara 5v even before adding in a LH2 upper stage.  This would be a much easier option than building an all-new mega rocket.
    that energia -5kv with 105,3t to leo is interesting with 5 zenit in booster core ,and hydrogen 2nd stage.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:47 pm

    Rmf wrote:Russia's Angara5v may not have enough launch capacity for robust lunar missions.
    If Russia really wants a more capable rocket for lunar missions, it needs a Zenit Heavy.
    Admittedly the RD-171 engine isn't the most reliable or highest build quality, but if you were to substitute in four higher-quality rd-191 engines per core, you could get engine-out reliability.  It'd also let NPO Energomash max out RD-191 production numbers.  A Zenit Heavy (kerosine or methane version) ought to lift more to TLI than an Angara 5v even before adding in a LH2 upper stage.  This would be a much easier option than building an all-new mega rocket.
    that energia -5kv with 105,3t to leo is interesting with 5 zenit in booster core ,and hydrogen 2nd stage.

    LH2 Angara upper stage is on ice for now, probably permanently. Makes sense because that version was supposed to act as replacement for super-heavy rocket when it was suspended but with Fenix project now in development there is no pressing need for it anymore.

    Angara5 & Federation capsule (PTK/NP, might as well start using official new name from now on) will service LEO.

    Federation capsule & Fenix super heavy (whichever option they go with) will be used for flights beyond Earth's orbit. And heavy cargo of course.
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    Book.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Book. on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:29 pm

    Russia’s new manned spacecraft to be 3.5 times cheaper than US Dragon
    Russian Aviaton » Sunday January 24, 2016 13:18 MSK

    http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2016/1/24/4767/


    Russia’s State Corporation Roscosmos intends to spend over 58 billion rubles ($734 million) on a new manned spacecraft or 3.5 times less than NASA has allocated to SpaceX on the Dragon space vehicle, according to a document published on Friday.

    The funds for the project to develop the new manned spacecraft called Federation are stipulated in a draft federal space program for 2016-2025 prepared for submission to the Russian government.

    Under the document, 58 billion rubles will be spent on R&D work to develop the ‘promising manned transport system’ through 2025, or 8 billion rubles ($101 million) less than was planned last year.

    As was reported earlier, SpaceX will receive $2.6 billion from NASA to develop the Dragon 2 manned spaceship. Meanwhile, the development of the new Russian space vehicle will cost just $734 million.

    Russia plans to launch the Federation space vehicle in 2021. Subsequent launches to the International Space Station in the manned and unmanned modes are scheduled for 2023.

    A space vehicle to fly around the Moon will be created in 2024-2025 and the flight is planned after 2025. The previous draft federal space program stipulated financing in the amount of 66.689 billion rubles ($844 million) before budget cuts.

    The manned flight to the International Space Station was planned in 2024 and the spacecraft was expected to fly around the Moon in 2025. The promising new-generation transport spaceship developed by Energiya Rocket and Space Corporation is designed to deliver humans and cargoes to the Moon and near-Earth orbital stations The spacecraft will have a crew of up to four persons.

    The new space vehicle will be able to operate autonomously for up to 30 days and its flight as part of an orbital station can last up to one year. The Angara-A5V heavy-class rocket is expected for use to deliver the new spacecraft into orbit.

    Low the cost russia
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:45 pm

    Media reports said earlier that Russia’s Defense Ministry planned to give up the use of Rokot carrier rockets in favor of the Angara-1.2 and Soyuz-2.1v light carrier rockets

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/854018
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:20 am

    George1 wrote:Media reports said earlier that Russia’s Defense Ministry planned to give up the use of Rokot carrier rockets in favor of the Angara-1.2 and Soyuz-2.1v light carrier rockets

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/854018
    Good decision. Abandon ANY use of Ukropistani-origin hardware, and sever any and all sources of revenue from Soviet-era related legacy hardware.

    Its a bit of a pity as there is little more spectacular than watching a Dnepr launcher pop out of his (her?) silo and ignite the engines while hanging in the sky... a blast and a roar and away it goes with megatons of thermonuclear death all gift-wrapped for the US Elite parasites... errr, wait... make that a satellite payload.... /snark off
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:09 pm

    Russia to develop new Fenix carrier rocket by 2025

    Fenix will be the first stage for a promising super-heavy carrier rocket

    MOSCOW, March 30. /TASS/. Russia’s Space Corporation Roscosmos plans to expedite the development of a new medium-class carrier rocket Fenix to make it ready by 2025, Roscosmos Head Igor Komarov said on Wednesday.

    "The timeframe is until 2025. During this year [2016], we’ll again analyze, on which basis the rocket will be made. We have the intentions to make it until 2025. We see that the market and life require expediting this project," Komarov said.

    The Roscosmos CEO said earlier on Wednesday that Fenix "will be the first stage for a promising super-heavy carrier rocket."
    Russia’s super-heavy rocket project not to pay back

    According to Komarov, Russia’s super-heavy carrier rocket project will not pay back, as the real consumers for it will appear in about a decade.

    "[The project] will definitely not pay back," he said.

    According to Komarov, "There will be no real consumers over the next 10 years" for this rocket. "There will be no commercial use (of the carrier rocket) much longer - for 15-20 [years], I think," said the Roscosmos chief.

    He also said that the country’s Federal Space Program for 2016-2025 envisages no payloads requiring a super-heavy class rocket.

    Komarov added that Russia has the technology to implement this project. The development of the medium-class rocket Fenix (Phoenix) is the beginning of "the thorny path towards the creation of a super-heavy class launch vehicle," the Roscosmos head said. He said earlier on Wednesday that Fenix will be used as the super-heavy rocket’s first stage.

    Roscosmos is expected to spend about 30 billion rubles ($440 million) on the Fenix development. According to preliminary data, the carrier rocket should be a single-block space vehicle capable of delivering at least 9 tons of payloads into the low near-Earth orbit. The Feniks carrier rocket will fire liquefied natural gas. It was reported earlier that the R&D work on the new carrier rocket could start in 2017 or 2018.


    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/866046
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    George1

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:48 pm

    All future Russian launch vehicle (beginning with Angara) will be named after Siberia & Far East rivers

    https://twitter.com/KURYERSAT/status/715229951822311425
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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:07 pm

    phoenix seems like duplication to angara.
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:54 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:I find it extremely hard to believe that Russia needs to rely on foreign suppliers of hydrazine, ...

    I agree with your point here; however, it is the UDMH that is used in large volumes in Russia. Russia's use of hydrazine as a rocket propellant is probably very limited and is probably only for some niche upper stage/payload applications. They have also been probably using many replacements for hydrazine, both in rocketry and in its other applications.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:44 pm

    George1 wrote:

    According to Komarov, Russia’s super-heavy carrier rocket project will not pay back, as the real consumers for it will appear in about a decade.

    "[The project] will definitely not pay back," he said.

    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/science/866046


    What a fool.

    If Russia all it does is supplying cargo to the ISS ,then it will not find clients for any
    super heavy rockets . But if Russia goes ahead and move to the moon or mars and create and master traveling to the moon and mars and even create a small landing base ,then
    the demand for Super heavy rockets will show up.

    In Humanity , there is not a single country in the world or a single human that will not love
    once in a lifetime to have a chance to travel safely to space safely and even more to orbit around the moon in a rocket. How many billionaires exist that will love to give a billion dollars for a ticket to the moon orbit and return? With a super heavy rocket you could even lower the prices if get many people at same time. Create the first space agency in the world.
    But the Russian Government and Putin continue with their short vision about the possibilities
    of what can be done if they were much more aggressive in space .

    Russians soviet mentality for attractive business is terrible. You dont wait for clients to show up. You create the demand by making ,inventing or doing something new never done before and that everyone will like to try..

    By the logic of him the plane will have been never invented ,because there was no client for
    it ,when it first was created.  Rolling Eyes but now everyone travel normally by plane across continents in hours thanks to the ambitions of scientist.  Electricity when it was invented ,did not had any
    clients either but look today ,how people cannot live without it. and is normal for the entire world. It was the invention of the plane ,when there was no need for it ,what created the Huge Demand for plane traveling. and not the other way.


    This is the reason Russia space program is just stuck as a taxi driver to the ISS with Russians with so dated mentality .  Russia needs to push forward ,invest heavily
    on its space program and aim for travels to space to other planets or satellites. and the
    clients they dont see now will show up in the thousands.  When Russia master the traveling to beyond earth orbit. With the 50 Billions $$ Russia spend in Sochi olympics , they could have instead spend 10 billion$ and get the other 40billions for a very ambitious space program ,including a new Space Station made by Russia and that covers Russia territory and a small landing base in the moon for research.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:08 pm

    Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:I find it extremely hard to believe that Russia needs to rely on foreign suppliers of hydrazine, ...

    I agree with your point here; however, it is the UDMH that is used in large volumes in Russia. Russia's use of hydrazine as a rocket propellant is probably very limited and is probably only for some niche upper stage/payload applications. They have also been probably using many replacements for hydrazine, both in rocketry and in its other applications.

    Ah, yes of course Very Happy I should have realised the article was regarding "ordinary" hydrazine and not UDMH. Thanks for the clarification!
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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:59 pm

    they want another type of engine, with different fuel, and duplication of launchers since payload weights will be simmilar ,and more workforce needed to be payed ,so the industial complex and energia can milk more money from tiny space funds?
    this waste has to stop.
    its hard to manrate angara since its working on technical edge ,thats why rus-m was planned but this? hopefully it will be cancelled like rus-m project...
    And all that after they plan to manrate angara -somehow- anyway. which is another squandering or resourses but hey....lobbies corruption ....
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:44 am

    Rmf wrote:they want another type of engine, with different fuel, and duplication of launchers since payload weights will be simmilar ,and more workforce needed to be payed ,so the industial complex and energia can milk more money from tiny space funds?
    this waste has to stop.
    its hard to manrate angara since its working on technical edge ,thats why rus-m was planned but this? hopefully it will be cancelled like rus-m project...
    And all that after they plan to manrate angara -somehow- anyway. which is another squandering or resourses but hey....lobbies corruption ....

    What exactly is your issue with a man-rated Angara-5P?  In your opinion, why would man-rating an Angara stack be difficult?  Man-rating is a question of reliability, emergency recovery modes and vibration environment, and I see no reason why Angara architecture should be especially hard to man-rate?

    I also do not see this proposed "Fenix" launcher as being a duplication of Angara, especially since we have no firm details on its configuration. It sounds like Fenix will be the core component of a future SHLV, so would be a Heavy-class launcher in its most basic (and initial operating) condition. It would not be a duplication of Angara as unlike Angara it would be scalable to 100+ ton to LEO.

    If I had to predict, I'd expect Fenix might be a ~5.0m dia core with methalox engines, and up-rated by strap-on URM-1 blocks (or a methalox version) and large-diameter upper stages? I'd expect manufacture in new facilities located in the Far East to mitigate transport issues (eg to avoid limitations on core size due to rail tunnel constraints) or possible air transport from European Russia.

    In any case, as with all things pertaining to the Russian space program, only time will tell dunno
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  kvs on Sun Apr 03, 2016 3:03 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Rmf wrote:they want another type of engine, with different fuel, and duplication of launchers since payload weights will be simmilar ,and more workforce needed to be payed ,so the industial complex and energia can milk more money from tiny space funds?
    this waste has to stop.
    its hard to manrate angara since its working on technical edge ,thats why rus-m was planned but this? hopefully it will be cancelled like rus-m project...
    And all that after they plan to manrate angara -somehow- anyway. which is another squandering or resourses but hey....lobbies corruption ....

    What exactly is your issue with a man-rated Angara-5P?  In your opinion, why would man-rating an Angara stack be difficult?  Man-rating is a question of reliability, emergency recovery modes and vibration environment, and I see no reason why Angara architecture should be especially hard to man-rate?

    I also do not see this proposed "Fenix" launcher as being a duplication of Angara, especially since we have no firm details on its configuration.  It sounds like Fenix will be the core component of a future SHLV, so would be a Heavy-class launcher in its most basic (and initial operating) condition.  It would not be a duplication of Angara as unlike Angara it would be scalable to 100+ ton to LEO.

    If I had to predict, I'd expect Fenix might be a ~5.0m dia core with methalox engines, and up-rated by strap-on URM-1 blocks (or a methalox version) and large-diameter upper stages? I'd expect manufacture in new facilities located in the Far East to mitigate transport issues (eg to avoid limitations on core size due to rail tunnel constraints) or possible air transport from European Russia.

    In any case, as with all things pertaining to the Russian space program, only time will tell  dunno

    You are trying to engage in a rational discussion with a clown who claimed the last Angara test launch involved the rocket "swaying unstably" during initial liftoff.
    This retard could not process the fish-eye distortion of the camera filming the launch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAH-O-cTUrg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIGKMO_twoc

    Case closed.


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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:10 am

    there are, phoenix mentioned here on 2nd page and other pages look up dont be lazy   Rolling Eyes
    its pure duplication to create artificial jobs after soyuz retirement...
    manrating angara will be hard.... now its not manrated. why wouldnt it be from start if it was that easy? rus-m was to be man rated not angara. so manrating angara as an afterthought will cost and take time.
    the deviations at angara launch were within boundaries. so? digital camera have distorsion?? or maybe some retarded camera from the 80s yes you are correct.... too bad butthurt is too strong in you to be objective.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:33 am

    Rmf wrote:there are, phoenix mentioned here on 2nd page and other pages look up dont be lazy   Rolling Eyes
    its pure duplication to create artificial jobs after soyuz retirement...
    manrating angara will be hard.... now its not manrated. why wouldnt it be from start if it was that easy? rus-m was to be man rated not angara. so manrating angara as an afterthought will cost and take time.
    the deviations at angara launch were within boundaries. so? digital camera have distorsion?? or maybe some retarded camera from the 80s yes you are correct.... too bad butthurt is too strong in you to be objective.

    There is a lot of conjecture about Fenix/Pheonix, and right now its too soon to say what the config will be. There was talk about Fenix being a development of Progress' Soyuz-5 methalox proposal, but now also talk of re-engineered Zenit with new methalox engines. Talk about Fenix being a basis for a future SHLV simply confuses the mess...

    I'll revise my previous guess-timate and suggest that Fenix base config may likely appear as a single stack (eg delivering 9 Ton to 200km LEO like the Soyuz 5.1 concept), but able to be clustered in a modular SHLV 1st stage as per the Energia-5K or Khrunichev Kaskad concepts. Kind of like an Angara on steroids with larger building blocks than the URM-1, and while I'd like to see russia develop and field a 5.0m dia vehicle, I think the modular approach is superior and certainly more flexible.

    Again, time will tell.... russia
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    Rmf

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Rmf on Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:10 pm

    well i arrived at simmilar conclusions over time instead old mix of everything they are building new mix of everything ,
    they should go for universal rocket engine concept!!!!
    and then develop like in mig / sukhoi fighter competition - light URM with single engine and heavy URM with 4 engines, for boosters ... and everything is launched with this 2 types of rockets.
    then you have true mass production ,good control ,and educating new staff is easier.
    sounds radical in industial organisation , but its very conservative technicaly.
    also everything should run on single fuel type too kerosine + oxygen on all stages.
    best expertise there , ditch everything else.... and hydrogen but only for upper stages and in some cases -heaviest versions some intermediate versions.
    urm-2 too would use 1 or 2 same engines depending if its  light or heavy variant.
    currently block -d 3rd stage is already built in krasnoyarsk in central siberia and in omsk in western siberia is building angara modules.

    so how large should hevay urm be? urm-1 diamether is 2,9m ,so if you want to double volume with same height just multiply with sqrt of 2.
    2,9*1,41= 4,089m and if you look at it energia proposal had large boosters with 4,1m (diamether like proton) and then doubleing the height giving 4 times volume thus you have fuel and could put 4 engines there.

    each engine would have its own pump be some upgraded version of nk-33-1 or rd-193 , there could be direct competition there with reliability ,cost and technical characteristics being main criteria... the winner would build 140-200 engines per year and that is true mass production.
    after you have engine thrust set and picked, and urms scaled properly ! you can have large scope to send from 3+ tonns to leo to 100 tonns to leo.
    streaching limits of angara is hard beyond certain point and it cant do it it has to be divided into slightly lighter and heavy versions.
    why lighter well rd-193 has 192t of thrust which is high ,engine should be in 170-180t  range.  so it can be scaled properly.  also with lower chamber pressure it would be easier to manrate all versions....and urm -1 should be smaller to compensate, from 171t from angaras urm to 145t tonns (payload at same fraction like angara a-1 would be 3,3 t to leo) .

    zenit has 4 chamber 720t engine and that is 4* 180t. so it would fit right in. zenit has other problem- currently zenit has too much thrust at take off because it was meant to lift energia and its hydrogen core engines give low thrust but burn for a long time. so they immitate partialy shuttle solids.
    heavy urm should be larger then zenits 450t , about 550t. then you have thrust to weight in 1,3 which is ok because it then you can put large hydrogen upper stage with no problem. thus you have 5 heavy URM version pushing from 75t with kerosine upper stage, to 100t with hydrogen.

    problem in angara i point is in their booster modules have thrust to weight 192/171=1,12. so that means you cant put anything very heavy on top of it. thats why angara a5v wont work its a design limit and fundamental flaw of the concept. emptying whole stack with core stage wont work you want core stage to work as long as it can or your altituide you start hydrogen stage burn is lower and you have problems.
    i have on another forum work out things in most aspects....its exciting time because this is the moment you send everything old to museum and starting new but lobbies and corrruption and positioning and egos are destroying the chanse to fundamentaly modernise and start with realy good concepts.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:37 am

    According to Atlantic-Integrationist clown Anatoly Zak, Russia is looking at a Zenit replacement in the 17T to LEO category to serve as the basis for Baiterek, and whose 1st stage could be used as a module in a future Russian SHLV (much the same as a URM-01 is the basis for the Angara family). Sounds like this could be related to the Fenix project, or an evolution of the Fenix concept to maintain the usefulness of the Baikonur infrastructure into the future.

    Russia charts new path to super rocket



    Project history

    The loss of Zenit left a gap in the payload range of the Russian rocket fleet, in particular its ability to deliver mid-size communications satellites with a mass of under five tons into the geostationary transfer orbit, GTO. The death of Zenit also further stalled a decade-long Russian-Kazakh venture known as Baiterek, aiming to bring a new-generation commercial launcher to the Baikonur Cosmodrome.

    On January 26-27, 2016, representatives of Roskosmos met with their Kazakh counterparts to discuss the fate of the Baiterek project and directed the industry to consider various alternatives to Zenit. By the middle of the year, the industry came up with a concept dubbed Sunkar, or "falcon" in Kazakh.

    At the heart of the new design was the idea to enlarge the diameter of the Zenit rocket from 3.8 to 4.1 meters, so it could match the "caliber" of the Proton rocket. As a result, the Proton's production machinery could be re-used with relatively few upgrades to manufacture the new-generation launcher, after its predecessor's planned retirement in mid-2020s.

    Unlike Proton, all stages on Sunkar would burn non-toxic kerosene and liquid oxygen, as it had long been insisted upon by the Kazakh government.

    The Sunkar could utilize the existing launch and processing infrastructure for the Zenit rocket in Baikonur, which could be funded by Kazakhstan.

    In the commercial launch market, the Sunkar should replace the yet-to-be-built Proton-Light variant, delivering mid-size satellites, while Angara-5 would take over duties of the Proton-M version carrying the heaviest payloads.

    Ironically, the proposal to develop yet another type of space launcher essentially reverses the previous strategy at GKNPTs Khrunichev of relying on a modular architecture of the Angara family to cover the entire spectrum of space payloads. However, unlike Angara's standard booster, URM-1, the first stage of the Sunkar rocket will be large enough to serve as a building block for a future super-heavy rocket, reaching payloads of at least 80 tons, so it could serve as the main vehicle for the deep-space exploration program. Therefore, the Sunkar proposal can be considered as the first step in building a more powerful family of space rockets in Russia.

    Fatter Zenit

    Both stages of the Sunkar rocket will feature a diameter of 4.1 meters, allowing their shipment to Baikonur by rail. However that economic method of delivery would not be an option for the new Russian launch site in Vostochny due to various bottlenecks at tunnels and bridges.

    The first stage of the Sunkar booster would be propelled by a modified four-chamber RD-171 engine, inherited from Zenit. Alternatively, a pair of two-chamber RD-180 engines could be employed to generate an equal amount of thrust.

    The first stage will be equipped with an aft section with a diameter of 3.68 meters, matching the dimensions of the Zenit rocket and housing the similar propulsion system, in order to make the Sunkar compatible with the most of Zenit's ground infrastructure.

    Second stage

    The second stage of the Sunkar launch vehicle will be propelled by a pair of four-chamber RD-0124A engines, largely borrowed from the URM-2 booster in the Angara family. Although this newly improvised propulsion system wielding eight combustion chambers is not an example of simplicity, it allows to keep the length of the second stage to an absolute minimum, while still providing an unmatched efficiency. Not to mention, the RD-0124 engine is already available and was thoroughly flight tested on the Soyuz-2-1b and Angara rockets.

    Unfortunately, the new rocket could not take advantage of Angara's URM-2 stage itself, because it would be too small for a vehicle of that size.

    Third stage

    The existing variant of the Block-D space tug, such as Block DM-03, which employs the same propellant as the lower booster stages, is expected to serve as the third stage on the Sunkar booster. It will have the task of completing the orbital insertion into the initial parking orbit and then pushing its cargo to the geostationary transfer orbit or to the proper geostationary orbit.

    Chances for implementation

    The development of the Sunkar rocket could be folded into the Feniks project, which was to be funded within the Russian Federal Space Program extending from 2016 to 2025 and aimed at developing a new-generation rocket to replace the Soyuz family. Another contender for federal funds within the Feniks program was the Soyuz-5 proposal from RKTs Progress, which builds all Soyuz rockets. However after the conflict with Ukraine had began in 2014, the Feniks was apparently steered toward building an equivalent of the Zenit rocket inside Russia.

    The authors of the Sunkar proposal believed that if approved in the near future, the new rocket could be ready for launch from an upgraded launch facility at Site 45 at the beginning of 2024 and start commercial missions from Baikonur a year and a half later, right around the time of the Proton's retirement.

    The manufacturing of the rocket could be distributed between various industrial centers in Russia, with RKTs Progress in Samara likely taking the leading role, possibly relying on available manufacturing base inherited from the Energia program.

    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/sunkar.html
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  kvs on Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:42 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:According to Atlantic-Integrationist clown Anatoly Zak, Russia is looking at a Zenit replacement in the 17T to LEO category to serve as the basis for Baiterek, and whose 1st stage could be used as a module in a future Russian SHLV (much the same as a URM-01 is the basis for the Angara family). Sounds like this could be related to the Fenix project, or an evolution of the Fenix concept to maintain the usefulness of the Baikonur infrastructure into the future.

    Russia charts new path to super rocket




    It is nice to see this project.   Russia does not need some additional Soyuz replacement.   Angara can do the job just fine.   Modules based on
    the RD-170 or update should be a priority to have the flexibility to build a 100 ton payload class launcher.   I would call this the right-sized
    Angara variant.

    Note how Zak always harps about the diameter of the rockets and that they can't make it to Vostochny via train.   Who the fuck cares!
    If they are so desperate to launch from there they should ship them by boat through the Arctic Ocean following the Russian coastline.  
    He also keeps harping about Russian rocket manufacturers trying to save costs by recycling old tech.   This clown should look at the
    US SLS:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System  

    It's a freaking Shuttle component rehash.   They moved the engines from the retired Shuttle into the main tank and use the same solid
    rocket boosters.   Zak must have stars in his eyes from all this dramatic innovation.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:53 am


    Zak is a fucking retard. I am glad someone else also noticed his train fetish. Why the fuck would trains be an issue in this day and age when you have cargo aircraft? Moron thinks it's still 1950's or something.

    Russia will be making those rockets as wide as they need them to be.

    That obsession of his with diameter of large cylindrical objects must imply some suppressed subconscious urge.

    And he never misses opportunity to harp about Ukraine. He just can't swallow the fact that Ukraine got left behind to suck it's own dick. They will not be making anything more complex than fertilizer ever again.

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    Re: Russian Launch Vehicles and their Spacecraft: Thoughts & News

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