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    Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

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    George1

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:35 am

    In Georgia, discussed the withdrawal from service of Su-25

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2352427.html


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    TheGeorgian

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  TheGeorgian on Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:00 pm

    George1 wrote:In Georgia, discussed the withdrawal from service of Su-25

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2352427.html

    Well, that was supposed to happen already in 2015 but with prospect of replacement. So far we didn't even receive the Black Hawks the US promised in 2014.
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    George1

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  George1 on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:03 pm

    The question of removal from service of Su-25, settled in Georgia

    Our blog has reported that in the framework of the next reform of the armed forces of Georgia, declared appointed in August 2016 the new Minister of Defense of the Republic Levan Izoria, among other things, a proposal was made on the decommissioning of all Su-25, consisting in part of a brigade of aviation and air defense Georgian ground forces.

    Now, the final adoption of this decision in an interview with the Georgian military magazine "Arsenal" announced the appointed on November 2016, the Chief of General Staff of Georgian Armed Forces, Brigadier General Vladimir Chachibaya.

    Chachibaya General explained that, in particular, the fact that it is difficult to keep the storm-troopers in fighting condition.

    "The main market for these aircraft components - is Russia, that there is no access to them" - he said.

    In addition, according to Vladimir Chachibaya, another factor - the inability to effectively use gunships.

    "We know that if the chances of Russia's aggression in our air is not - in view of the advanced Russian air defense arrangement means the territories of Abkhazia and Tskhinvali region is only 10 minutes after takeoff to knock down any of our aircraft. Also in the case of conventional threat we do not need the Su-25. We emphasis on BPL [meaning UAV], which have many purposes ", - he said.

    According to him, Georgia will be able to use the drones for intelligence purposes, as well as for air support.

    He also noted that the armament in the Army, Georgian Su-25 most of the time are remained on the ground.

    "Recently, the flight is conducted except that the one aircraft," - he said, without specifying the number of attack aircraft.

    "We keep the unit, which are not used. For it to spend large sums of money from the budget ", - the general said.

    According to him, in the future, the Georgian military aircraft will be based on BPL [UAV] and helicopters.

    Comment bmpd. Recall that Georgia officially has no air force since it was abolished in 2010, and military aviation was transferred to the command of the land forces of Georgia, in which a team of aviation and air defense as part of helicopter and airplane squadron was formed. As part of the airborne squadron has 12 Su-25.

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2463900.html


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    TheGeorgian

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  TheGeorgian on Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:09 pm

    possible Reaper drones acquirement ? 
    I was always sceptical about maintaining an air force in an environment such as the Caucasus. If attack drones can be used instead, why not. They cost half the price and are expandable.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:49 am

    TheGeorgian wrote:possible Reaper drones acquirement ? 
    I was always sceptical about maintaining an air force in an environment such as the Caucasus. If attack drones can be used instead, why not. They cost half the price and are expandable.

    Reapers cost half a SU-25? From Iraqi perspective it's kinda the reverse. MQ-9 is 15 million USD at minimum. Then you have the maintenance cost and ammunition cost, for which Georgia would be forced to buy US. The next Juju is the IAI Eitan also at 20+ million USD.

    If you mean Predators, the cost is at roughly 5 million a piece with the same limitation ammo wise.

    Sukhoi's overhaul program would be 2.5 million a piece if you go for the most recent package. Ammunition is going to be a problem even if you source it from South Africa or Israel.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  Militarov on Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:09 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    TheGeorgian wrote:possible Reaper drones acquirement ? 
    I was always sceptical about maintaining an air force in an environment such as the Caucasus. If attack drones can be used instead, why not. They cost half the price and are expandable.

    Reapers cost half a SU-25? From Iraqi perspective it's kinda the reverse. MQ-9 is 15 million USD at minimum. Then you have the maintenance cost and ammunition cost, for which Georgia would be forced to buy US. The next Juju is the IAI Eitan also at 20+ million USD.

    If you mean Predators, the cost is at roughly 5 million a piece with the same limitation ammo wise.

    Sukhoi's overhaul program would be 2.5 million a piece if you go for the most recent package. Ammunition is going to be a problem even if you source it from South Africa or Israel.

    On long run flying hour of UAVs will beat Su-25s however.
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:22 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    TheGeorgian wrote:possible Reaper drones acquirement ? 
    I was always sceptical about maintaining an air force in an environment such as the Caucasus. If attack drones can be used instead, why not. They cost half the price and are expandable.

    Reapers cost half a SU-25? From Iraqi perspective it's kinda the reverse. MQ-9 is 15 million USD at minimum. Then you have the maintenance cost and ammunition cost, for which Georgia would be forced to buy US. The next Juju is the IAI Eitan also at 20+ million USD.

    If you mean Predators, the cost is at roughly 5 million a piece with the same limitation ammo wise.

    Sukhoi's overhaul program would be 2.5 million a piece if you go for the most recent package. Ammunition is going to be a problem even if you source it from South Africa or Israel.

    On long run flying hour of UAVs will beat Su-25s however.

    And Lock&Mart and Friends will rape you once they'll have to land. Also easier to go after a drone so far than against a plane. The defensive options of drones are severly limited (be that Reaper or Predator, Eitan is theoretically able to defend itself, but theoretically won't cut it).

    It's a compromise and I understand that Georgia logically has no chance vs its main threat, so would I understand the idea not to risk pilots directly.
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    TheGeorgian

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  TheGeorgian on Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:26 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    TheGeorgian wrote:possible Reaper drones acquirement ? 
    I was always sceptical about maintaining an air force in an environment such as the Caucasus. If attack drones can be used instead, why not. They cost half the price and are expandable.

    Reapers cost half a SU-25? From Iraqi perspective it's kinda the reverse. MQ-9 is 15 million USD at minimum. Then you have the maintenance cost and ammunition cost, for which Georgia would be forced to buy US. The next Juju is the IAI Eitan also at 20+ million USD.

    If you mean Predators, the cost is at roughly 5 million a piece with the same limitation ammo wise.

    Sukhoi's overhaul program would be 2.5 million a piece if you go for the most recent package. Ammunition is going to be a problem even if you source it from South Africa or Israel.

    Oh yeah nevermind. I meant the Predator. 
    Well considering exactly the problems you've mentioned vs the comparably better options for maintainance and ammunition provided via NATO countries it's still more pros than cons overall + the fact they are expandable, pilots ain't. They would probably be acquired in greater numbers. Maybe like up to 20 ( which is prob very wishful thinking ).
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    TheGeorgian

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  TheGeorgian on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:21 pm

    So some major updates coming and all of the stuff is official though I am quoting a long public hearing and a brief conference of the past 2 days. It is obviously in Georgian so bear with me when I say I translate it as accurately to you as I can.





    Structures

    The 5th Infantry Brigade has effectively been disbanded and the base combat strenght of each brigade locked to 3,000 soldiers not included other type of personnel. This is in accordance to NATO and higher quality and standarts achieved over the recent years. The other reason I come to later.

    9 battalions, not specified which one or which are left out, will undergoe an extensive re-training program provided by the US, not specified why and what exactly is happening.  

    The Special Forces will be reduced in numbers because they are currently over-bloated for a country the size of Georgia. Details not given, but the victim seems to be the Special Mountain ( or Ranger ) battalion. It is unclear to me why the unit exists in the first place because the Ranger badge is more like a high personal career achievement rather than a unit patch. Most people who become a Ranger do it because it is one of the requirements to become SpecOps member.  

    It is now officialy confirmed: all Su-25 bombers will be sold. They will not be replaced by A-10s but combat helicopters, not specified which or what type exactly - but the argument is combat helicopters are better suited for such a theatre of war as mountainous Caucasus .... and drones. Yes, combat drones have been confirmed as de-facto CAS alternative. Minister argued they are cheaper and expandable.

    Reserve will be based on Scandinavian model.

    Interoperability between Polish-Georgian-Latvian SF.

    Financial and weapon procurement:

    Now the other reason for downsizing personnel strenght. In the last years Georgia spent only 2% of its military budget on equipment while under optimal circumstances it should be around 20%. The current MOD managed to increase it from 2% to 6% and hopes to get to 15% or more in 2020. A lot of people who were assigned to posts and had so called "star positions" - basicaly the former ministers appointed thousands of people, mostly civilians, to certain positions in the greater military structure despite their complete lack of qualifications, received all the salary, social and health insurances accordingly and more - which only added unjustly unnecessarily to overspending on "military" personnel who really didn't deserve. The overall spending on personnel reaching up to 80% of the entire budget while the rest was saved for maintaining the army itself / so maintanance, repairs.

    This has been completly changed and corrected in the last few years, all the unnecessary personnel released and the MOD was even greatful enough to offer qualification and training after release so a lot of people had the opportunity to return and do actual service to their country after they qualified themselves, it goes without saying - obv not in the previous positions they held because it was unconstitutional in the first place. Most did, a lot were happy with compensation and left - yes people even got compensated. Like high ranking officers who left service after 15-19 years, 200 of them - got compensated with around $30,000 as a 'thank you for your service'.

    Now since Georgia follows the NATO doctrine it also wants to reach the standart of 2% state budget invested into the military.

    To procurements:

    Next week further agreements will be sealed with France. Implementation of advanced AA defence is taking place and in its active phase. Up to 40 officers are being trained on the radar systems that are being purchased - suspected GM-200 / 400 which will easily cover the entirety of Georgia and beyond.

    MOD mentioned to guarantee effective defence shield, very advanced - his words "heavy" missile systems are required, however it takes increase of above mentioned re-focus of funds on acquiring the required amount of missiles etc - Air Defence has highest priority in general.

    Apparently there were serious talks with the US - first official of that type - about procurement of advanced anti-tank systems. No answer yet, but it looks like a definitly positive.
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    TheGeorgian

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  TheGeorgian on Tue May 30, 2017 6:30 pm

    Georgia replacing the PK machine gun with M-240

    http://www.defenseworld.net/news/19420#.WS2dwuuLTRY

    Georgia will replace its Kalashnikov machine guns with US-produced M240 machine guns, the press service of the Georgian Defense Ministry said in a statement Monday. According to the statement, the ministry will carry out the demonstration of new M240 machine guns during a ceremony celebrating the second anniversary since the opening of the NATO-Georgian Joint Training and Evaluation Centre (JTEC) in Krtsanisi Tuesday. "Defense Minister Levan Izoria, head of the General Staff Maj. Gen. Vladimer Chachibaia and US Ambassador to Georgia Ian Kelly will attend the demonstration of US-produced M240 machine guns on the shooting range of the JTEC. Beginning tomorrow, PK machine guns will be gradually replaced in service of the Georgian army by US analogs M240, meeting NATO standards," the statement reads. The M240 is a belt-fed, air-cooled, gas-operated, fully automatic machine gun that fires from the open bolt position. This 7.62mm machine gun is being issued to infantry, armor, combat engineer, special force/rangers, and selected field artillery units that require medium support fires and replaced the ground-mounted M-60 series machine guns currently in use. wrote:
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue May 30, 2017 11:45 pm

    Yes, because changing out a same style gun for another same style gun, is clearly a good use of funds.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed May 31, 2017 1:49 am


    This is kinda wasteful. Why change it if new thing is imported?

    We switched to NATO caliber here in Serbia but we make all our own firearms and ammo locally.
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    TheGeorgian

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  TheGeorgian on Wed May 31, 2017 5:53 am

    Yeah this is kinda very irritating for me as well.

    The reasoning is over the top corny "meet Nato standarts". If I'm not mistaken all of Eastern Europe uses the PK lol

    also the only real "advantige" is rate of fire and that things much heavier.

    I highly doubt the PK will be replaced completly. The same thing was said about the RPK when the Negev got introduced. But SF still uses it heavily and seemingly prefers it over the Negev and you always see it during exercises in general.

    Best proof is that the AR-15 base, which has been introduced 10 years ago, to this date has not replaced the AK.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 31, 2017 11:57 am

    Ahhh, well... at least you are getting the FN MAG and not the M60... Smile

    The FN MAG is not a bad machine gun... a little heavy... I seem to remember a photo from the Falklands war in 1982 where a MG is left in position because the gas regulator had not been adjusted for the amount of firing the gunner had spent... the result was the gas regulator was blown off the gun and the gun didn't work any more... wonder if they have fixed that in the current production model...


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    TheGeorgian

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    Re: Georgia Μilitary: News and Modernisation

    Post  TheGeorgian on Wed May 31, 2017 2:35 pm

    You are joking but that was actualy considered a while ago.

    Well we're getting the L and compact version too so it should be alright.

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