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    Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

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    Hoof
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Hoof on Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:27 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    With a new main gun you introduce problems where new ammo might be higher pressure that will damage older guns, but by making the new ammo with penetrators so long they wont fit into the older auto loaders you eliminate the chance of barrel damage. As the old tanks get the new auto loaders they should also get the new guns as well.

    Might take as much as 5-6 years to work out all of the problems they didn't find during testing with new guns...

    As for modernization of autoloaders and guns, it makes sense, since factories will have more work to do, and doing 2 modernizations at the same time will save them money...

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Ogannisyan8887 on Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:56 am

    I heard the T-95 was canceled. Sad

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:13 am

    Yes, it seems the Russian Army doesn't envisage thousands of heavy MBTs rolling over the countryside to meet an enemy fleet of MBTs.

    The T-95 was pretty much designed for 24/7 warfare in Europe against NATO and was going to be big and expensive and tactically mobile, but not very strategically mobile.

    With reduced force sizes the tanks they do have would need to be easily transportable by a multiple number of platforms.

    The T-95 wasn't going to be that sort of tank.

    Even when they planned to put the T-95 in service the upgraded T-90 was still expected to be the backbone of the armour force and there would only have been 500-1,000 T-95s in service by 2020 or so.

    I have read they will now concentrate on upgrading the T-90 and also looking at new technologies at home and abroad for a next gen replacement tank, but there will never again be a 20,000 strong Russian tank reserve.

    There is only one tank making company left in Russia so I would expect a lot of technology developed for the T-95 will be reused in the new design where it makes sense of course, and likely a few features might make it into the T-90 eventually too.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:25 pm

    They keep talking and talking about new tanks...i've been waiting for the T-95 to come out and BANG, cancelled Sad


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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Austin on Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:31 am

    Indeed its nice to see T-90 getting its due credit where it deserves as you rightly put it , since india has ordered and lic manufacturing 1600 T-90's I just hope we move to T-90M for majority of the number.

    I think the Indian use of French Catherine TI system and its performance has prompted Russia to use the same on the new T-90M with new Turret.

    Here is a nice interview with Chief of Armaments -Deputy Commander-in-Chief of Land Forces Major General Viktor Lizvinsky that talks of status of Arms Development for the Land Forces , even he talks of new tank development

    Interview:link

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:51 am

    I think the Indian use of French Catherine TI system and its performance has prompted Russia to use the same on the new T-90M with new Turret.

    And I think that might be part of the holdup.

    I think once production of the thermal sights in Russia really increases then we will see the Russians adopt the new standard T-90.
    Until production is high enough to make sights for Russian tanks and those for India then the production of the new tanks will be put on hold in my opinion.

    Ocne the sights are being mass produced and production of new T-90s started older model T-90s will be upgraded to the new standard so all T-90s in Russian service will be the same.

    I think part of the problem too will be that the upgrade for the older T-72s will include thermal sights too which means production in very large numbers... which will be good for cost scalings by reducing individual unit costs.

    Doesn't really make sense to build new T-90s now if you will have to upgrade them in 2-3 years time.

    BTW thanks for the link... am reading it now... will get back to you with my thoughts. Smile

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:03 am

    Looks to me like secure communications, recon assets, and night and all weather equipment is a priority with a goal of removing from service vehicles with little growth potential and the introduction of a family of vehicles that include tracked and wheeled vehicles from tank down to robot weapon platforms will likely start in 2015.

    I would think battle management and C4IR issues need to be addressed, including getting the necessary hardware in service and actually training and using it will likely be goals as well.

    We saw in the Georgian conflict that just having a C4IR network isn't enough... you actually have to be able to use it in combat.

    The Georgian forces had UAVs and all the necessary communications and control equipment but they failed to use it.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Austin on Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:43 pm

    How does the T-80 tank compared with T-90 tanks , I just came across this book on T-80 and ordered one seems interesting to me considering Russian operates a sizeable number of T-80.

    http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Armour-Main-Battle-Tank/dp/0711032386/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296409240&sr=1-2

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:56 pm

    It is a rather scrambled history.

    In the west it was believed that the T-64 was to replace the T-62 and was a failure and was replaced by the T-72 and then the T-80 came to replace them all.

    In actual fact it was rather different.

    The T-64 was expensive but rather capable and had composite armour that the west only introduced in the late 1970s. It introduced a powerful new 125mm gun though the first models had a 115mm from the T-62. It introduced an autoloader, which was new for a modern tank at the time.

    The T-72 was made by a competing company and was designed as a capable but cheaper tank that could be mass produced and exported yet was superior to the enemy equivalent at the time.

    The T-80 was the replacement of the T-64 and in many ways was a very good tank... it was the first tank to have a gas turbine engine as the primary propulsion to enter service.

    It was the more expensive but also the more capable of Soviet tanks and was produced together with the T-72. Warsaw Pact and other licence production agreements for tanks involved the T-72 and not the T-64 and T-80.

    Then the cold war ended and the Soviet Union broke up and all of a sudden the main production facilities for the T-80 was in the Ukraine while the main production facilities for the T-72 was in Russia.

    There was no longer a demand for a cheap production MBT and a high quality expensive MBT, there was just a requirement for a new tank and both companies upgraded their tanks as far as they could to win. Obviously UVZ, the maker of the T-72 had the advantage of being in Russia, while both tanks had components made in both countries it was the T-72BM that won... don't let the T-72B fool you as all the cheap stuff was dropped and all new expensive stuff was added to make it as capable or more so in some areas than the T-80.

    The T-72BM was renamed T-90 and is quite different to other older model T-72s in most senses.

    The current situation seems to be that the T95 in development has been cancelled though it might be redesigned to meet new requirements in 5 to ten years, and the focus is the upgrade of the T-90 with domestic and foreign technologies as far as they can. I would expect they will try to get about 2,000 T-90 tanks into service with maybe 4,000 upgraded T-72 tanks as a reserve by 2020 or so likely with lots of development of new rounds and sensors as a priority. The existing tanks will likely be sold off or scrapped or given to museums or allies depending on their condition.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  runaway on Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:46 pm

    The T-80 is a well enough tank, but not equal to the T-90.
    The gas turbine is very thirsty and suffers from breakdowns. The armour was proven to be vulnerebul to RPG in chechnya.
    Although with new Contact armor, the only flaw is the engine.
    I belive the desicion to go for T-90 was right, and i think it can be upgraded to soldier on for many years.

    Cypres recently bought new T-80;s instead of T-90;s . They already had 41 and bought 41 additional from russia.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:53 am

    The T-80 is a well enough tank, but not equal to the T-90.

    Totally agree, and the T-80 is improved in the T-80UD model with the diesel engine... but that model and the engine is made in the Ukraine now.

    The gas turbine is very thirsty and suffers from breakdowns. The armour was proven to be vulnerebul to RPG in chechnya.

    The gas turbine means the logistics train needs to be capable of moving more fuel forward faster to keep the engines running and it is expensive.

    When the tanks were rushed to Chechnia without ERA contents it was found that from many angles they were very vulnerable.

    The T-80 has a slightly different autoloader with the rounds in the turret base arranged differently which made it more vulnerable to a penetrating hit.

    The T-72/90 autoloader had better armoured ammo cassettes but that is only for the ready to use ammo. The other ammo stored in the tank made them vulnerable too. In the second Chechen conflict they operated the tanks with no extra ammo with ammo only in the autoloader and it was much much safer for the crew.

    I belive the desicion to go for T-90 was right, and i think it can be upgraded to soldier on for many years.

    The range of things that can be upgraded is large, there is a new gun with a muzzle reference system, new ammo types, a battle management system, new communications equipment, new thermal sights for the commander and gunner, enlarged turret with better arranged hard armour and new Relickt ERA, and a new turret bustle autoloader so the total number of rounds carried ready to fire is 45-55 rounds including long rod penetrator rounds, new more powerful engine, new EO protection system, new active defence system that can deal with top attack weapons, new remote control roof mounted gun, the Nakidka screening system, EMP anti IED system, and for some missions they have an anti sniper system that uses microphones in an array to detect the source of shots fired including the calibre that might be useful for some missions too.

    Cypres recently bought new T-80;s instead of T-90;s . They already had 41 and bought 41 additional from russia.

    They were going to buy T-90s but realised it would just make logistics a pain for no real advantage. The Russians have T-80s to spare. For being such a good customer when the Russians do start getting rid of their extra vehicles and their spares I hope they direct some stuff to Cyprus.

    I would think that because they are actually fairly similar a T-80 could certainly be upgraded with parts that are used to upgrade T-72s to near T-90 standard, so you could still operate T-80s and T-90s together without too much waste, but in Russia the T-80 is seen as a Ukrainian tank so there is little support for it there so I think it will quietly disappear from service. There are plenty of Russian suppliers of T-80 parts and they could keep them running, but as I said above the gas turbine engines are from Russia and the Diesels are from the Ukraine. Russian diesels are however gaining ground.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Austin on Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:13 am

    Thanks Garry for your insight.

    T-90 is indeed a good tank and is doing quite well in IA service ,the key advantage is it has good deal of logistics commonality with T-72's and the other T's that india operate and is in the 40T class , something that is useful since Pakistan too operates tank of similar class and perhaps their logistics and bridges etc are designed to take that weight and not that of heavy tank like Abrams.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:38 am

    In practical terms a tank is a mobile heavy gun platform that is basically has an anti vehicle and anti hard point role.

    In some operations where light weight and mobility are serious concerns the T-90 might find itself replaced with a variation of a BMP-3 where the gun is lower calibre and lower velocity but light armoured vehicles and bunkers wont know the difference.

    You have to keep in mind that the Soviets liked direct fire artillery and that vehicles like the ISU-152 was often used to provide direct fire support to obliterate enemy positions.

    On paper the T-34 for example should have had a 45mm or even 57mm long barrel gun and be used in the anti tank role, but in practical terms a lower velocity 76.2mm gun was much more suitable because although it wasn't as effective as the 57mm gun in penetrating armour it certainly penetrated enough to defeat contemporary German armour it was much much more effective against softer targets like bunkers and MG nests and artillery positions using HE shells.

    The Germans and it seems the west have become fixated at the tank being the best anti tank weapon, when in fact a shoulder fired ATGM probably does a better job let alone air power and land mines.

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    Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:05 pm

    Some news for you Garry

    http://rian.ru/defense_safety/20110315/354123339.html

    He explained that the Army will consist of heavy, medium and light brigades of the new model. Heavy Brigade will be armed with heavy platforms (tanks) on the tracked chassis with heavy weapons - gun 125 mm and weighing up to 65 tons.

    Also, armed with heavy brigades will be a platform-type current infantry fighting vehicles. And on the same platform will be different types of weapons, such as anti-aircraft missile and artillery.

    According to the Commander, the average team will have the armored vehicles of "Boomerang." "I can say that they will be flying," - said Postnikov.

    Light Brigade, he said, will be armed with armored vehicles such as "Tiger" of up to 2,5 tons, which will be effective, including in mountainous and arctic regions.



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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:39 am

    He explained that the Army will consist of heavy, medium and light brigades of the new model. Heavy
    Brigade will be armed with heavy platforms (tanks) on the tracked
    chassis with heavy weapons - gun 125 mm and weighing up to 65 tons.

    This is interesting as for the first time they have mentioned an actual weight for this weight class.
    I have been thinking a bit and I wonder if they will merge the current very popular 120mm long barrel gun/mortars with the 100mm rifled gun fitted currently to the BMP-3.
    It would remove a calibre from the inventory but the 120mm rounds take up more space... especially for their exposed bag propellent charges.
    The 120mm gun/mortar has four standard rounds, a direct fire HEAT shell, a standard round with a range of up to 8km or so and a rocket assisted round with a range of 13km plus the laser homing GRAN. The 100mm round of the BMP-3 basically has two rounds, a standard HE shell, and a tube launched guided missile using beam riding guidance.

    Without a T-95 like crew in the front hull separated from the gun and ammo layout any vehicle with either of the two above weapons will be vulnerable to hits...

    The problem with what they are saying is that before they talked about rejecting the T-95 because it is not mobile enough... ignoring its focus is crew protection. Now they are saying 65 tons is OK?

    65 tons would make it the heaviest tank the Russians or Soviets ever (edit) put into service.

    I suspect 65 tons is the upper limit of the various type of vehicle, so it would likely be some enormous 152mm system like Coalition that is the 65 ton vehicle based on a chassis like the E3 that is a 25 ton class chassis empty that can take up to a 40 ton payload/turret.


    Last edited by GarryB on Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  IronsightSniper on Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:56 am

    Correction, the IS-7, at 68 tonnes, was the Heaviest tank the Soviets ever built.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Austin on Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:56 am

    GarryB wrote:The problem with what they are saying is that before they talked about rejecting the T-95 because it is not mobile enough... ignoring its focus is crew protection. Now they are saying 65 tons is OK?

    No body knows for sure why T-95 was cancelled and since it was radically different from existing T , there are many theories on the WWW as to why it got cancelled.

    My opinion on this would be time and money , it was conceived during the Soviet Era and it was a 20 years old approach held in the background of cold war , which may not suite the present doctrine , it could be more expensive and Russian had no funds to sustain its production when they could get a cost effective T-90.

    We really do not know how well the prototype worked and how will they manage the logistics of 152 mm MG.

    He says 65T and 125 mm MG , the latter makes sense to keep it in sync with the 10 thousand odd tanks , a 65T would raise eyebrow , come that with what the tank designer said 1500 HP engine and electric tank , so we can expect

    65 T Tank with 125 MG , 1500 HP engine , Electric Tank ,will have features of T-95 , thats the deal ?

    How capable is Russian logistics like Train/Rail Car etc that could transport a 65T tank , Vlad any idea ?

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:59 am

    Correction, the IS-7, at 68 tonnes, was the Heaviest tank the Soviets ever built.

    And never entered service because it was stupidly overweight. Correction made.

    We really do not know how well the prototype worked and how will they manage the logistics of 152 mm MG.

    The makers said it passed all the tests and met the requirements set for it. It would not have been rocket science to replace a 152mm gun with a 125mm gun to start with and upgrade to a larger calibre later.

    65 T Tank with 125 MG , 1500 HP engine , Electric Tank ,will have features of T-95 , thats the deal ?

    If it is a tank that is 65 tons then where has the extra 10 tons come from? The T-95 was always described as a 55 ton class vehicle. Electric tank propulsion is not something they could do over night and I suspect that the T-95 was probably already electric driven. They said it was ground breaking in several areas.

    I suspect its design that allowed 24/7 operation with three crew led to expensive crew positions and to give the commander better vision down in the hull I would suspect a range of optics mounted in the top of the turret and perhaps even on extendible arms to improve visibility of the vehicle and the surroundings would likely have made it quite expensive.

    Going to a 65 ton class vehicle means all new power train, it would be very useful to go to electric drive because a conventional tank would need all new suspension and transmission and gearing.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:09 am

    GarryB wrote:The makers said it passed all the tests and met the requirements set for it. It would not have been rocket science to replace a 152mm gun with a 125mm gun to start with and upgrade to a larger calibre later.

    Its not a rocket science but it will cost them big money to regun the existing 125 mm MG , considering thousands of tanks there.

    And its not easy because of the weight issue , I read the Germans tried a Leo test platform with 140 mm gun and due to its weight they had to add a heavy counterbalance

    So for a small tank like T's it would be a major headache to move to 152 mm gun.

    Is the extra 10 tons come from? The T-95 was always described as a 55 ton class vehicle. Electric tank propulsion is not something they could do over night and I suspect that the T-95 was probably already electric driven. They said it was ground breaking in several areas.

    Well the T-95 is speculated at 55T , no one knows for sure how much it weighs because they did not go official with it and there are also speculations that the pictures shown is one of the prototypes of T-95. For all you know T-95 could be 60 or 65 T

    I dont think T-95 its electric driven , the designer mentioned in that interview that electric tank is something they are trying for the new tank.

    Certainly an electric tank with GT engine and 1500 HP has been mentioned in that interview.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zUe7sq7m3h0/S6q74nrz3iI/AAAAAAAAA88/yb6kPurK7dE/s1600/P5200036.JPG

    if you check that link the Abrams has a weight of 63 T and uses 1500HP engine and has a power to weight ratio of nearly 24 , so for 65 T I would expect a P/W ratio of 21-22 Tons comparable to T-90 Bishma.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  medo on Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:04 pm

    It seems this year will be the year of negotiations with UVZ for future tanks buying. I wonder what tank they will choose (T-90M, T-95 or any other new type) and for what price. I really doubt that Russian MoD will not buy new tanks in next years.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  Austin on Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:06 pm

    The would end up buying the T-90M they have already built and tested the prototype , the T-95 project is dead but the technologies will be incorporated in their new FMBT.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:49 am

    Its not a rocket science but it will cost them big money to regun the existing 125 mm MG , considering thousands of tanks there.

    Actually I would suggest that if there were plans to regun the entire fleet to 152mm guns that this would likely be part of the T-90M design to allow for a larger gun and for larger ammo handling and storing.

    What I meant was for ammo commonality the other way... so that the first models of the new tanks have 125mm guns fitted. The T-64 started life with the 115mm smoothbore of the T-62 but was designed for the 125mm gun to be used. The M1 Abrams had a 105mm British rifled gun before it had the 120mm German smoothbore fitted.

    And its not easy because of the weight issue , I read the Germans tried a
    Leo test platform with 140 mm gun and due to its weight they had to add
    a heavy counterbalance

    That would matter for existing tanks trying to carry a new 152mm gun... and in this case it would be less of an issue because the new turret bustle autoloader would counter balance the weight of the new gun and because of ammo size might need to be enlarged and the under floor ammo storage might need to be replaced.

    So for a small tank like T's it would be a major headache to move to 152 mm gun.

    Removing the underfloor autoloader and replacing it with a larger turret bustle autoloader should make the turret much more roomier for the crew with the extra 210mm headroom as achieved in the Black Eagle when the same change was made. The T-90M had an enlarged turret to fit new electronics and there is no reason why the turrets of older tanks could not simply be replaced with this new turret with a 152mm gun fitted and ammo positioning changed.

    If you get the time please check on the discussion we had here ,
    specially the comment from Damian90 on T-90 , its interesting to say the
    least

    Damien seems to be unaware that the supposed new turret redesign included an extention of the size of the turret for the new electronics in addition to the turret bustle autoloader.

    The design department from OMSK that developed the Black Eagle design were transfered to UVZ, so the turret bustle is likely similar. One assumes they retain the design copyright to the turret bustle autoloader design and can use it on an upgrade for the new T-90.

    I wonder what tank they will choose (T-90M, T-95 or any other new type)
    and for what price. I really doubt that Russian MoD will not buy new
    tanks in next years.

    I agree... they need to make orders for next year or UVZ will only be able to make trains.

    I am guessing they are waiting for the T-90M to complete its trials and tests.



    http://igorrgroup.blogspot.com/2011/03/tank-news.html

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  medo on Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:08 am

    Why is T-80 considered as non domestic tank? As I know they were also produced in Omsk, which is in Russia.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future

    Post  runaway on Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:07 pm

    medo wrote:Why is T-80 considered as non domestic tank? As I know they were also produced in Omsk, which is in Russia.

    That is right, i think Gary related to the fact that Ukraine has had parallell production and keeps upgrading the design. They sell it now as "their" tank T-84.
    Noenthenless, Gary was wrong using the word "non domestic".


    Although the T-80 production has stopped for the Russian Army, the Omsk plant still makes the tank for export. As of 2011 the Russian military has upgraded some T-80s to prolong their service lives,[19] and the T-80 will serve in the Russian army for years to come.
    In October 2009 Cyprus ordered an additional batch of 41 used T-80Us and T-80UKs from Russia for €115 million. Deliveries are expected to be completed in the first half of 2011.

    About 500 T-80UD tanks were built in the Malyshev plant between 1987–91. About 300 were still at the Ukrainian factory when the Soviet Union broke up, so the T-80UD tank and its design was far more welcomed in Ukrainian Military service
    Ukrainian T-80UDIn parallel with the T-80U and Russia in general, the Morozov Bureau in Ukraine developed a diesel-powered version, the T-80UD


    Russia protested that they held the rights to the tank and that Ukraine couldn't export it. Nearly 70% of T-80UD components were produced outside of Ukraine (mainly in Russia). Under the guise of keeping good relations with India, one of its most important military customers, Russia withheld 2A46-2 125 mm smoothbore guns, cast turrets and other technology, which forced Ukraine to make its tank industry independent. It developed domestic components, including a welded turret which was in use on the new T-84.

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    T-80 Production

    Post  GarryB on Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:47 pm

    Omsk was more of a repair factory for the T-80, though a design centre was there... if given the funding they could have produced the T-80 at the rate they eventually built the T-90s at.

    The main problem that while many of the components for the T-80 were made in Russia the facilities for mass production were in the Ukraine.

    Also combat experience had shown that because of the design of the autoloader with the propellent stubs stored vertically any hull or turret penetration would lead to an explosion on the T-64 and T-80 (both shared the same sort of autoloader).

    The autoloader for the T-72 was different as both propellent stub and projectile were horizontal under armour plate which stopped sparks and hot metal fragments reaching the ammo in the autoloader.

    Due to combat experience the frontal armour of the T-72 had been radically increased as well, to the point where it was comparable to the T-80, so when Russia stated they wanted one tank instead of two the makers of the T-72 basically put all new stuff into the T-72 that previously they had avoided to keep costs down and simplify production.

    The result was called the T-90 and it won against the T-80 put forward by Omsk. In many ways it was similar to the Flanker Fulcrum fight however as the T-90 got an Indian order while exports of T-80s were largely political in nature (ie South Korea was as payment for debt, and Cyprus was to annoy the Turks.)

    Another problem with the T-80 was that the T-80U model had a powerful but gas guzzling engine. The solution was an investment in much more powerful diesel tank engines which payed off with new engines that went into the T-80UD, where D is for diesel.

    The problem for Russia is that the factory that made the much more powerful diesel engines was located in the Ukraine too and in the mid 1990s they didn't have extra funds to develop another new tank engine. In the last decade they have developed a few new engines.

    After loosing to UVZ, Omsk went bankrupt and it primarily maintains T-80s in service... the design part of their company was transferred to UVZ... the Burlak T-90 upgrade combined the T-72 underfloor autoloader with the turret bustle autoloader of the Black Eagle, so the vehicle had about 53 rounds of ammo ready to fire, but the Russian military thought the turret bustle ammo was too vulnerable to enemy fire so they rejected it.

    To be clear many of the T-80s in Russian service are old T-80B tanks. The T-80, T-80U, and T-80UD are Soviet tanks, as is the T-72. After the split the Ukraine continued to further develop the T-80, while the Russian military held a competition for a new tank to be their MBT and the Russian T-90 won. The T-90 is a Russian tank because it was developed after Russia and the Ukraine split. Omsk still produces limited numbers of tanks for export when it gets orders, but its primary role in Russia is maintainence for the T-80s in Russian service.

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