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    Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

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    Vladimir79

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    Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:42 am

    Tank force reductions or statistical juggling

    MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti military commentator Ilya Kramnik) - Russia is currently undergoing a controversial military reform. The entirely new troop structure and tables of organization are being hotly debated. Recent media reports concerning planned tank force reductions have triggered various comments, including panicky predictions.

    Media articles quoting Interfax reports involving an anonymous Defense Ministry source say the tank force will be reduced more than ten-fold, namely, from over 20,000 tanks to just 2,000 tanks. The news has sparked off a heated debate.

    However, all sensational aspects disappear if we study the situation more closely. Although the tank force will be reduced and overhauled substantially, the reform does not envision ten-fold cuts.

    At present the Russian Army has about 22,000 tanks, including more than 15,000 at storehouses. This makes up for just over 6,000 combat-ready tanks. Permanent readiness units have between 1,000 and 1,500 tanks.

    In the next ten years, army divisions will be replaced with permanent readiness brigades and battalions operating 2,000 to 2,300 combat-ready main battle tanks whose number will increase somewhat. Training units will have several hundred more tanks. Another 3,000-4,000 tanks will remain at storehouses. Consequently, the Russian Army will have a total of 6,000 to 7,000 tanks.

    Although the Russian tank force will be reduced three-fold, the specifications of operational tanks, the qualitative and quantitative gap between Russia and its theoretical enemies and the reform's long-term effect on national defense capability remain unclear.

    The Russian industrial situation makes it possible to clarify the first aspect. The T-90 main battle tank, a modified version of the T-72 tank, is currently being manufactured for the Russian Army. The T-72 modernization program will bring these tanks up to the current standard. As a result, T-64 and T-80 tanks featuring numerous Ukrainian-made components will have to be scrapped.

    The T-72 and its successor, the T-90, will probably form the mainstay of the Russian tank force. Production of the T-95 tank, due to be unveiled in 2009, could be launched in the next two or three years.

    But how will Russia's tank force compare with those of neighboring countries? Virtually all major powers plan to reduce their tank units many times over.

    NATO forces in Europe will retain about 2,000 combat-ready tanks and will store another 2,000 by 2020.

    China will have about 4,000 to 5,000 tanks, including 2,000 modern tanks, by 2020. Although the Russian tank force will be dwarfed by those of its two most powerful neighbors, NATO and China, it is highly unlikely that Moscow will have to simultaneously fight both of them. Such a hypothetical conflict would inevitably escalate into a nuclear war. Consequently, the role played by tank units would diminish greatly.

    Although anti-tank weapons are being improved all the time, tanks still dominate the battlefield due to their firepower, mobility and thick armor. Tanks remain a vital asset enhancing the flexibility, mobility and firepower of army units during local conflicts.

    http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20090703/155424380.html
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    Vladislav

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  Vladislav on Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:46 am

    T-80/T-64/T-55 is going to be sold in big bonanza. That should help pay for new tanks.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  tunguska on Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:31 pm

    ARE YOU SERIOUS? WILL THE RUSSIAN ARMY REDUCE ITS TANK UNITS 10 TIMES OVER?!! THAT´S INSANE, I AM NEW IN THE FORUM AND I AM NOT A STRATEGY MAN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT ALTHOUGH I STUDY MILITARY HISTORY. BUT REDUCING THE TANK UNITS 10 TIMES OVER IS CRAZY, WHY WILL THEY DO IT? WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF RUSSIA HAS TO GO TO WAR IN A MAJOR CONFLICT IN THE FOLLOWING YEARS? I THINK THEY SHOULDNT DO IT AND IF THEY WILL DO IT ANYWAY THEN THEY SHOULD HAVE THE CHIORNY ORIOL TANK IN THEIR LINES THAT WAY THE NUMERICAL INFERIORITY WILL BE COMPENSATED WITH QUALITY!! ANYWAY I WAIT FOR AN ANSWER TO DISCUSS ABOUT ANXIOUSLY!!
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:04 am

    tunguska wrote:ARE YOU SERIOUS? WILL THE RUSSIAN ARMY REDUCE ITS TANK UNITS 10 TIMES OVER?!! THAT´S INSANE, I AM NEW IN THE FORUM AND I AM NOT A STRATEGY MAN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT ALTHOUGH I STUDY MILITARY HISTORY. BUT REDUCING THE TANK UNITS 10 TIMES OVER IS CRAZY, WHY WILL THEY DO IT? WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF RUSSIA HAS TO GO TO WAR IN A MAJOR CONFLICT IN THE FOLLOWING YEARS? I THINK THEY SHOULDNT DO IT AND IF THEY WILL DO IT ANYWAY THEN THEY SHOULD HAVE THE CHIORNY ORIOL TANK IN THEIR LINES THAT WAY THE NUMERICAL INFERIORITY WILL BE COMPENSATED WITH QUALITY!! ANYWAY I WAIT FOR AN ANSWER TO DISCUSS ABOUT ANXIOUSLY!!

    Firsts things first, rule #3 of this forum is, do not write in all caps.


    The reason behind the reduction is for several things.

    1) to get kombat units 100% readiness
    2) to get rid of T-80s who can no longer be maintained in Russia but have to rely on Ukraine for parts.
    3) to reduce maintenaince cost of outdated equipment
    4) to find part commanality as T-72/90 have similar components
    5) to bring fully modernised or upgraded brigades into service
    6) to get rid of ridiculously old tanks like T-55/64
    7) with cost reductions will be able to train tank crews year round
    8} will be able to afford Catherine Thermals and GLONASS recievers on all active tanks for night fighting capability

    Active brigades will have around 2,300 tanks with another 2,000 in reserve.

    If Russia finds itself in a major conflict, we will have fast reaction brigades that take little time to mobalise and can crush any incursion. We can follow it up with reserve equipment for an offencive that is up-to-date. Logistics will be simple and completely independent of foreign suppliers (Ukraine). We will be able to fight at night and at greater ranges than our enemies. The way it stands now, a NATO invasion would simply out-shoot our tank divisions at night and China can go tank for tank during the day. An invasion from two fronts was how we viewed it before, but this is unlikely. Now we are directing to a one front war that can be fought and won in a short period of time. Fighting in Georgia cost us $100 million per day. We cannot afford a prolonged war so we intend to end it quickly with quality equipment.

    "CHIORNY ORIOL", also known as "Black Eagle" is nothing but a heavily modified T-80 tank chassis. The factory that made them and the T-80 line is now out of business. Uralvagonzavod plant is close to unveilling the T-95 which will be far superior. This tank will become the backbone of the future tank fleet.
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    soldieroffortune

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  soldieroffortune on Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:35 am

    Sounds like a strategic plan, but still much remains to be done, - like getting "Bulava" to work.
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    Russian Patriot

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    Russia's new Ground Forces chief urges drastic cuts in tanks

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:53 pm

    Russia's new Ground Forces chief urges drastic cuts in tanks

    RIA Novosti

    25/02/201013:59

    MOSCOW, February 25 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's newly appointed chief of Ground Forces said on Thursday Russia would do well with half the number of tanks it has today.

    "Currently, there are 20,000 tanks of all modifications in service but the actual requirement is half that number," Col. Gen. Alexander Postnikov said.

    Postnikov said the country's Ground Forces needed new armor and new tanks to match the best foreign analogs.

    For this purpose, the Defense Ministry has purchased 261 T-90 main battle tanks for the army this year, Postnikov said, adding the tanks will be delivered to the North Caucasus military district.

    Postnikov said 1,000 tanks had been modernized last year to extend their service life but added that priority was given to the purchase of new tanks rather than to their modernization.

    The T-90 is equipped with 125 mm smooth-bore gun, 12.7 mm anti-aircraft machine gun and 7.62 mm co-axial machine gun supported with high accuracy sighting systems, and automatic loader for higher firing rate.

    It also features sophisticated protection from chemical, biological and nuclear attacks.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100225-rianovosti02.htm


    Last edited by Russian Patriot on Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Viktor

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  Viktor on Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:16 am

    Haha .. he is speaking about drastic cuts but at the same time revealing Russia buyed 260 T-90A for this year alone with 1000 of them modernized in 2009. LOL
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:44 pm

    Viktor wrote:Haha .. he is speaking about drastic cuts but at the same time revealing Russia buyed 260 T-90A for this year alone with 1000 of them modernized in 2009. LOL

    Russia gets about 50-60 T-90... not 260.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:14 am

    Here is the news article about it...

    Tanks for tank

    Defense Ministry announced a plan to buy this year, 261 tank. It does not really need the army, but can save «Uralvagonzavod

    Alexei Nikolsky
    Bulletin

    26.02.2010, 33 (2551)

    The new Commander of Land Forces, General Alexander Postnikov, said yesterday at a press briefing that the army needed new tanks and such a tank to develop a new generation of machines is a T-90 tank. This year, the general said, will be purchased 261 tanks of this type. The official said the Defense Ministry, is likely an error: the general was referring to the purchase of both new and upgraded tanks. According to him, the new T-90 tank production «Uralvagonzavod"Is now about 70 million rubles. But the allocation of this year, more than 18 billion rubles. their purchase documents have been received. This repair and partial modernization of the T-72, which was also carried out on «Uralvagonzavod, is several times less - about 10-30 million rubles. depending on the volume of work, said another source in the Defense Ministry. According to him, probably 198 out of 261 of the tank - a modernized tanks T-72BA. General Director «Uralvagonzavod Oleg Sienko said «Vedomosti "that the plant is ready to make a general named Postnikov number of tanks.

    Since 2008 operates a three-year contract with the Defense «Uralvagonzavod to purchase a total of 189 tanks (in 63 tanks per year), reminded the editor of Moscow Defense Brief Mikhail Barabanov, and it is highly unlikely that the order for no apparent reason was increased more than fourfold. This production capacity «Uralvagonzavod such that in Soviet times it produced up to 1200 T-72 tanks (T-90 is a development of this design) per year, like an expert, but now funds for the purchase of bulk tank is clearly not enough and the army has more important priorities. This reduction in tank continues - in the shape of the new army brigades, according to the officer's Defense Ministry plans to have about 2,000 tanks and as many more will be in training units and other units of the order of 5000-6000 and tanks - in storage. Now the army, according to the Postnikov, there are about 20 000 tanks, and half of that number will be utilized.

    Uralvagonzavod "suffered greatly during the crisis and reduce the avalanche of demand for rail cars, which before the crisis in 2008 gave about two-thirds of the proceeds (manufacture of tanks for Russia, Algerian and Indian armies in the year has less than a third of proceeds), by the summer of last year, work has lost nearly 20 000 people. Algerian contract for supply of 185 T-90 tanks and the delivery of the Indian Contract completed and now the factory supplying car sets for assembling T-90 in India of about 70 units a year, says expert at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Andrei Frolov. To save the city-forming enterprises of Nizhny Tagil, and the only manufacturer of tanks for a total government decided to provide assistance amounting to 28 billion rubles., About half are state guarantees on loans, like a member of the public council under Ministry of Defense Ruslan Pukhov. Purchase tanks valued at 18 billion rubles. itself will not save the plant, but may give a chance for his salvation when successfully carried out debt restructuring, said the expert. Most same army T-90 tanks are not needed, according to Pukhov.

    http://www.vedomosti.ru/newspaper/article/2010/02/26/226705
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:28 pm

    The main problem is that much of the tank fleet is obsolete and that there are too many different types in service all with slightly different parts that are not interchangeable.
    With everything from T-54s and T-62s through T-64s, T-72s, T-80s and T-90s the problem is that the remaining tank producer in Russia makes T-90s/T-72s so ideally they need to get rid of everything except the T-90s.

    The T-95 probably uses lots of net centric technology that allows it to work with other assets as a team. Until that is all implimented and operational then it probably makes more sense just to make T-90s for numbers with some net capability (ie Burlak).

    The obvious solution to the obsolete tank fleet is to start offering them to allies who already have such vehicles in service. In fact offer a few thousand T-55s with upgrades like laser rangefinders and then offer to sell similar upgrades to that countries existing fleet to make money and help the customer save money by having a fleet of like vehicles.
    Another option that can be used as well as the above is of course the create heavy APCs like the BTR-T except using T-72s rather than T-55s and of course BMP-T vehicles based on existing tanks rather than new built.
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    GarryB

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    russian tank force

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:30 am

    This article is relevant to this thread I think:

    source: http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20100326/158321797.html

    Russian tanks: today and tomorrow

    The reorganization and re-equipping of the Russian army's tank force has become a high-priority military issue.

    Reductions in tank forces, the gradual expansion of T-90 tank production, the modernization of existing tanks and the development of the next generation T-95 tank - this gives much food for thought.

    RIA Novosti learned more about it during an exclusive interview with Oleg Siyenko, CEO of Uralvagonzavod, a Russian engineering company located in Nizhny Tagil, the Urals Federal District. Uralvagonzavod is the world's largest main battle tank manufacturer and the only tank manufacturer in Russia.

    The T-90 has undergone continuous upgrades since it was first developed in the early 1990s on the basis of the latest modifications to the T-72/T-72B. It is the only mass-produced main battle tank in Russia.

    Under the current state rearmament program, the Russian army is expected to receive about 1,500 tanks of this model. At present, the Russian Armed Forces have 500 T-90 tanks and receive 60 to 100 new tanks of this model each year.

    This month, General Alexander Postnikov, Commander of Land Forces, caused a sensation when he announced the order for 261 T-90 tanks in 2010. Although all news outlets reported a steep rise in T-90 procurement, Siyenko could not confirm the story.

    "There is no contract for such an order at present. Unfortunately, contracts between the Ministry of Defense and our company call for much fewer tanks. But I can say that we would be happy to receive such an order, as it would ensure the stability of our company and help it to expand," Siyenko said.

    The T-90 is currently the most commercially successful tank on the global market. The number of exported tanks, including tank-assembly kits, will soon reach 1,000, and more and more countries are beginning to import them.

    India is the largest buyer of T-90 tanks, but they can also be found in the Algerian military according to media reports. Contracts have been signed with Turkmenistan, while preliminary agreements have been concluded with Cyprus, Libya and Saudi Arabia.

    In addition to the production of T-90 tanks, T-72 tanks continue to be modernized for the Russian Armed Forces. The T-72BA is currently the main modified version. Modernization programs streamline the fire-control system, enhance hull-bottom mine resistance by installing an additional armor plate near the driver's seat, standardize the platform and engine with the T-90 tank and improve the tank's armor.

    An upgraded T-72 tank has considerably greater potential and meets modern tank requirements, while at the same time being far cheaper to produce than a new T-90 tank.

    Nevertheless, the army is hoping for a next generation tank to replace older models and reinforce the current fleet of T-90. Known as "Item 195" and the T-95, this new model has been under development for many years. Details remain classified.

    During our exclusive interview, Siyenko commented on reports on the T-95, which was developed at Uralvagonzavod, where it will also be mass-produced:

    "We've been working on this project for many years. Unfortunately, we are having problems with our parts suppliers, who are falling behind both in terms of product quality and quantity. We are working to solve this problem on our own. Our engineers are developing new units and systems for this entirely new tank and for intermediate versions. With the approval of the government, the first tanks could be displayed this summer at the Russian Defense Expo 2010 in Nizhny Tagil.

    Although I can't reveal the tank's specifications, I would like to point out that we have met the technical requirements of the proposal in full as well as the requirements of the military.

    Let's wait until summer, when you will most likely be able to see the new tank for yourself."

    If the summer expo of the T-95 in Nizhny Tagil happens, Russia will become the first country to unveil a fifth-generation tank. This tank is expected to surpass all of its predecessors and rivals.

    Despite the secrecy surrounding the T-95, some information has been leaked. It appears that the new tank will weigh about 55 metric tons and that it will have a remote-controlled turret with a 152-mm cannon capable of firing conventional rounds and guided missiles.

    Tank design and performance, in addition to crew training, are becoming increasingly important at a time when Moscow has decided to reduce Russia's tank force from over 20,000 operational and reserve vehicles to 2,000 operational and 5,000-6,000 in reserve.

    It becomes even more important when you consider the vastness of Russia's borderland as well as a hypothetical land conflict with a superior enemy. Consequently, the success of army reforms in Russia will largely depend on the success of the T-95 R&D program and subsequent tests.

    The opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily represent those of RIA Novosti.



    MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti military commentator Ilya Kramnik)
    dated: 26/03/2010

    Now note this part: This month, General Alexander Postnikov, Commander of Land Forces, caused a sensation when he announced the order for 261 T-90 tanks in 2010. Although all news outlets reported a steep rise in T-90 procurement, Siyenko could not confirm the story.

    This was a misunderstanding by the media. The general didn't say there would be 261 new T-90s, he said the Russian Army would get 261 'new' tanks and the media decided that because the T-90 was the only tank in production that he meant they were all T-90s. The figure of 261 'new' tanks includes older tanks like T-80s, T-72s getting upgrades and being returned to service. The figure for actual new T-90s has not increased and will not increase probably till the new upgrade for it has been completed. The main stumbling block is probably a lack of thermal sights because the production line for licence production is being set up and should only be starting producing Russian made sights soon.
    There is a video from 20/10/2008 showing the Russians seeing the sights delivered by Thales for Russia and they talk about setting up production taking one and a half years so I would assume that by the end of this year they might be ready for larger scale production so the new sights can be fitted to new build T-90s as well as upgraded older models to get the Russian Army more night capable quicker.
    (ie: http://en.rian.ru/video/20081020/117841689.html for video.)
    Of course the other stumbling block could be that they are simply waiting for the upgrade of the T-90 to be finalised so that production of new T-90s can be ramped up and upgrading older models can be reduced or stopped and older model tanks removed from the inventory. Most current modernisations of existing tanks seem to be applied to the newer models and seem to focus on making them more like T-90s for commonality and ease logistics problems.
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    GarryB

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    In 2004 the design arm of the business was absorbed into Uralvagonzavod.

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:59 am

    I think the current priority with tanks is first to focus on what to do with the surplus which is something like 15,000 vehicles.
    Second will be to get the 6-8,000 tanks they will be left with organised so they all have the same engines and transmissions and electronics and sensors and guns etc etc.
    Third priority will be what comes into service in 2020 to replace them.

    I think number one is number one, with work on number two also being worked on and likely tested this year or next, which means they will be able to start doing something about the second thing from 2012 onwards...
    Number three is a direction for the Russian Tank industry to work on and there will be work that also takes into account technology developed for the T-95 but not implemented obviously... if it can't be made to work with the T-90 upgrade then it can be kept for the next gen replacement tank that will likely be called T-95 no matter when it arrives.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  ali.a.r on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:36 am

    Can anyone tell me how many armored vehicles are in a typical Russian batallion? Thanks in advance. Smile
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:27 am

    Typically a Russian tank battalion has 41 tanks, which can be broken down into one tank in the HQ unit, and 4 tank companies of 10 tanks each.

    AFAIK a Motor Rifle Brigade will have 3 Motor Rifle battalions and 1 Tank battalion, while a Tank Brigade will have 3 tank battalions and 1 motor rifle battalion.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  ali.a.r on Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:41 am

    Thanks. What about repair vehicles and other support vehicles?

    So that means a Tank Brigade has approx. 120 MBT's, while a Motor Rifle Brigade will have around 40? AFAIK, there are 4 Tank Brigades and 35 Motor Rifle Brigades. So theoretically that means a total of around 1900 MBT's. Am I right?
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 am

    That sounds about right, though I am no expert.

    Support vehicles will be part of the engineer battalions within the tank brigade.

    I have heard that engineer battalions are much larger in Motor Rifle brigades than in Tank brigades because MR brigade engineer units have a lot more sappers and mine laying and mine clearing and also field construction roles, whereas in Tank brigades mobility is more important so they don't have the mine laying capacity, or trench construction capacity.

    I found this on a website:


    Russian Independent Motor Rifle Brigade
    (about 4,500 personnel)

    Command Company

    Signal Battalion
    - HQ
    - 2 x Signal Companies

    1x or 2x Tank Battalion(s) (usually 1)
    - HQ: 1 x MBT
    - 4 x Tank Companies with each 10 x T72/T-80/T-90

    3 x Motor Rifle Battalions
    - HQ
    - 3 x Motor Rifle Companies: 10 x BMP or BTR or MT-LB
    - Mortar Company: 6 x 120mm Mortars 2B11/2S12 or 6 x 82mm Mortars 2B14
    - AGL platoon: 3 x BMP or BTR, 6 x AGS-30 AGL
    - Antitank platoon: 3 x BMP or BTR, 6 x AT4/AT13/AT14
    - Recon platoon: 1 x BMR-K, 2 BMP or 3 x BTR
    - Engineer platoon
    - Logistic platoon
    - Medical platoon

    Artillery Command and recon battery
    2 x SP howitzer battalions
    - HQ
    - 3 x SP Howitzer Batteries: 6 x 2S3M or 2S19 152mm SP Howitzers or 6 x 2S1 122mm Howitzers

    Rocket launcher battalion
    - HQ
    - 3 x MLRS Batteries: 6 x BM21

    Antitank Battalion
    - HQ
    - 1-2 AT Gun Batteries: 6 x 100mm MT-12 AT-Gun, should be replaced with 6 x 2S25 Sprut
    - 1-2 ATGM Batteries: 9-12 x 9P148 (AT-5) or 9-12 x 9P149 (AT-6), should be replaced with 12 x 9P162 (BMP3 with AT-14 Kornet)

    Air defence missile battalion
    - HQ
    - 3 x Heavy AD Batteries: 4 x SA-8 or 4 x SA-15 or 2 SA-11

    Air defence missile - artillery battalion
    - HQ
    - 1 x SP AD Gun Battery: 6 x ZSU-23-4 or 2S6
    - 1 x AD Battery: 6 x SA-13
    - 1 x AD Battery: 27 x SA-14

    Recon Company: 4 x BMR-K, 6 x BMP oder 10 x BTR

    NBC Defence Company

    Engineer Battalion
    - HQ
    - Engineer sapper company
    - Engineer construction company
    - Engineer technical company
    - Pontoon bridge company

    Maintenance battalion
    - HQ
    - Tracked Vehicle Maintenance Company
    - Tracked Vehicle Maintenance Company
    - Ordnance/Weapons Maintenance Company
    - Electronic Maintenance company
    - Combat Recovery Company

    Supply battalion
    - HQ
    - 3 x Transport Companies
    - Support Company

    Medical company

    + garrison services

    So of particular note is that a Motor Rifle Brigade normally has one, but can have two Tank battalions.
    Also it has fairly heavy fire support with 18 x 120mm mortars and 36 152mm or 122mm Self propelled howtizers, plus 18 Grads... soon to be replaced with Tornado-Gs
    Note the anti tank battalion is not present in the Tank Brigades.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  ali.a.r on Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:51 am

    Thanks Garry. Why the huge reduction in the size of the Tank force?
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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:53 am

    Russia can't afford to have a Soviet sized armed force.

    But actually the old Soviet forces were split into three tiers of readiness.

    The high readiness units were near frontlines or based in Eastern Europe and had the latest stuff. They were pretty much ready to start fighting straight away.
    The Second tier units didn't have all their stuff and a lot of their stuff was older kit... the first tier had T-64s and then T-80s, while the second tier had T-72s and some upgraded T-62s, they were also not fully manned so they would take a couple of weeks to get conscripts with relatively recent service and equipment they most likely trained on when they were in service a few years back, while the third tier units had all their kit in long term storage and skeleton manning, and when formed up... which could take a month, had obsolete equipment like T-55/54 tanks and BTR-50 APCs.

    Basically the new revision has removed the tier 2 and tier 3 units and has begun the removal from storage of all the old stuff.

    The new units will the high readiness highly mobile and well equipped and well trained units.

    In comparison the new force will actually have more ready to use forces, but will not be able to fight a long sustained war, these forces are mainly for small or short conflicts... the bigger stuff will be covered by nukes.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  ali.a.r on Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:13 am

    Thats a huge change. Whenever I think of the Russian Army, I always have this mental image of hundreds of tanks crashing through the enemy. But the new tank force of less than 2000 tanks, (to be honest) it just sounds wrong.
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    Russia Announces 'Massive' Tank Scrappage Scheme

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:04 am


    Russia Announces 'Massive' Tank Scrappage Scheme

    Outmoded tanks and armored vehicles will be scrapped in a "massive" scheme launched by the defense ministry last year, a senior military official said on Friday.

    "From 2011 onward, in accordance with a government decree the Defense Ministry has begun taking outdated automobiles and armored vehicles out of service and getting rid of them," Gen Maj Alexander Shevchenko told reporters in Moscow.

    The scheme involves T-80, T-64, T-55, tanks as well as a number of army trucks.

    Shevchenko did not disclose the exact number of vehicles to be destroyed, but the Soviet Union produced thousands of these types of tanks from the 1950's to the 1990's and stored many of them.

    The ministry could not be reached for comment.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120323/172346264.html

    There will be a lot of vehicles they will want to get rid of because they are not domestic products anymore, or simply not worth upgrading.

    This should save a lot of money and perhaps generate some income depending on what they do with the scrap.

    gloriousfatherland

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:28 am

    Waste of time, money, human resources....Time for radical changes.....T-34-T55....we need smt like that with respect to fighting vehicles...The armor is crap, and its OUTDATED....It doesn't even conform to russia's current reform and milittary doctrine....Give some university engineers to come up with an innovative design...DARPA does projects like that, russia should try it...Time to give the recycling of soviet machinery a rest...Time for Russian Innovation.History proves you did it many times.Now do it again! russia
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:22 am

    There is simply not enough money or justification for throwing everything out and buying all new stuff.

    What they are basically doing is throwing out the really old stuff and the obsolete stuff and the stuff that was made outside Russia (ie T-80 and trucks and certain vehicle chassis).

    They will then look at the stuff that has potential... like the BMP-2, and upgrade it to a high level and spend the rest of their money on new stuff when it becomes available.

    The new stuff needs to go through thorough testing and then they need to tool up and start production which all takes time and money.

    Throwing out the obsolete stuff frees up space and saves a lot of money, upgrading stuff that is not obsolete takes the pressure off new vehicle production and allows existing service personel to get used to using thermal sights and modern communications and battle management systems etc etc.
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    medo

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  medo on Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:07 pm

    http://www.lenta.ru/news/2012/03/23/getridof/

    Hm, here they say, they will scrap T-55, T-62 and T-64, not T-80, what make more sense to me. T-55, T-62 and T-64 are around half a century old, so it doesn't have sense to keep them in any reserve. T-72 and T-80 yes, but T-55 and T-62 are too old.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:26 am

    The critical thing is to get rid of the T-54/55 and T-62 because that eliminates two calibres... 100mm rifled tank gun and 115mm smooth bore tank gun. This means in terms of tank gun fired ammo they just have 125mm and perhaps a few 152mm for experimentation.

    The T-64s are probably quite worn out by now as most T-64s in Russia came from East Germany. The way it worked was that whatever stuff you had you kept so a lot of high tech quality stuff was forward deployed on Soviet Territory in the Ukraine and Belarus and the Eastern European states in Soviet units.

    I rather suspect the T-80s will be transferred to the Navy, and there are quite a few older models that should just be scrapped, but there is probably 1,500-2,000 that could be kept in service and used till they are worn out and then scrapped.

    Regarding the old model T-72s even if their turrets are obsolete (for the very early models) you can give the chassis a quick upgrade as use the chassis base for other things like a MSTA base for MSTAs that operate in units of T-72s so there is a commonality of components. They could even use them for BTRTs to replace BMP and BTR vehicles in heavy brigades equipped with T-72s.
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    TR1

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

    Post  TR1 on Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:45 pm

    http://siloviki-ru.livejournal.com/66178.html

    Training of 200th OMSBr.

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    Re: Russia Tank Force: Present and Future (Numbers)

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