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    Republic of Novorossiya

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    medo
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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  medo on Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:08 pm

    Khepesh wrote:^  Thanks, I will try, and could do a better job if I had Rozhin's resources, but I don't Smile

    But yes, not enough attention is given to the bigger picture, of were this all ends, and it will one day. When the war resumes and Kiev fails again, what then, Minsk 3, then six months later another attempt by Kiev, another fail and Minsk 4? No, this it, no Minsk 3, but then what, Kharkov as a minimum, the Dnepr at Kherson, but Odessa still a dream...

    Minsk 2 was the last Minsk. If the war resumes, it will last to the fall of Kiev junta and liberation of whole Novorussia.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:12 am

    It is forum policy that a warning is put on videos that some members might find objectionable... you have put a fairly clear description of the video content, so this is just information and not a warning.

    Whether this video is real or fake you have to consider why it was filmed and the intention of spreading such a video.

    My opinion would be that they are trying to create a situation where rebels mistreat their prisoners so they can be demonised in western media for being "barbaric".

    It could equally be an attempt to scare potential rebel volunteers, but as such could easily backfire and encourage more to rebel against them.


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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  George1 on Mon May 04, 2015 5:45 pm

    Russian ruble takes up 85% of Luhansk Republic’s currency market — LPR head

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  marat on Sun May 24, 2015 1:31 pm

    Hi i am still new on this forum but some members could remember me from MP. My basic interest in this conflict, during ceasefire is economy.

    Could you please post here ( or to open separate topic?) information about economy situation in DNR&LNR.
    I can find news regarding Ukraina but it is hard to get info regarding Novorossia. Especially i am interested regarding economy relations with Russia.

    magnumcromagnon
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    economy situation in DNR&LNR

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun May 24, 2015 2:42 pm

    marat wrote:Hi i am still new on this forum but some members could remember me from MP. My basic interest in this  conflict, during ceasefire is economy.

    Could you please post here ( or to open separate topic?) information about economy situation in DNR&LNR.
    I can find news regarding Ukraina but it is hard to get info regarding Novorossia. Especially i am interested regarding economy relations with Russia.

    Hi, remember you have to introduce yourself in the member introduction forum.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  franco on Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:23 pm

    In 2013, the population of Donesk and Lugansk was estimated at around 6,600,000. Today Pushkin states that 3,090,000 live in the two Republics. The rest ??

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:39 pm

    franco wrote:In 2013, the population of Donesk and Lugansk was estimated at around 6,600,000. Today Pushkin states that 3,090,000 live in the two Republics. The rest ??

    It's what the Kiev scum talked about isn't it, lowering the population of these oblasts, stuff like that?

    Well they've done it. And they're continuing to do it. Continous shelling day in, day out of civilian settlements vacant of military targets starts to make a whole load of sense, with such objectives in mind..

    My only hope is that these people will paid back and liquidated in excrutiating pain. Scum.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:41 am

    I know Donetsk PR is surviving with the help of the coal economy, but apparently a fairly big zinc/lead company called CJSC «Svinets» is based in Ukraine, Donetsk region, Konstantinovka...is that a region controlled by the rebels? They could sure use that financing.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  franco on Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:56 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:I know Donetsk PR is surviving with the help of the coal economy, but apparently a fairly big zinc/lead company called CJSC «Svinets» is based in Ukraine, Donetsk region, Konstantinovka...is that a region controlled by the rebels? They could sure use that financing.

    No, it is in UAF controlled territory south of Kramatorsk and west of Artemiv'sk.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:12 am

    franco wrote:In 2013, the population of Donesk and Lugansk was estimated at around 6,600,000. Today Pushkin states that 3,090,000 live in the two Republics. The rest ??

    let me take a guess:

    The 3 million are living within the DNR  and LNR
    Another 1 million living in Ukrainian controlled part of the 2 regions
    2 million moved to Russia
    0.6 million moved to other countries or other parts of Ukraine

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:07 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    My only hope is that these people will paid back and liquidated in excrutiating pain. Scum.
    Who's going to do it?

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  George1 on Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:41 pm

    Donetsk, Luhansk self-proclaimed republics ready to remain part of Ukraine

    Luhansk republic's representative in the Contact Group on Ukraine Vladislav Deinego commented on new proposals from the unrecognized republics on amendments to the Ukrainian constitution.

    MOSCOW, June 9. /TASS/. The self-proclaimed Luhansk and Donetsk people’s republics (LPR and DPR) are ready to remain part of Ukraine for the sake of ending hostilities in Donbas, LPR plenipotentiary representative in the Contact Group on Ukraine Vladislav Deinego said Tuesday while commenting on new proposals from the LPR and DPR on amendments to the Ukrainian constitution.

    "The fact that Luhansk and Donetsk are ready to meet the Kiev authorities halfway was announced not now by our proposals for the constitution, and not even in the winter. It was announced by the republics back in September last year at the first meeting in Minsk," LuganskInformCenter quoted Deinego as saying.

    "The documents signed September 5 [last year] stipulate movement in that direction. Back then, despite military successes of the militia, for the sake of stopping bloodshed, the republics agreed to such a huge compromise and to remain part of Ukraine as independent entities," he said.

    "It seems unthinkable, but people who seized power in Kiev are not ready to meet halfway our integration back into Ukraine by means of decentralization. Nevertheless, we are still ready for peaceful constructive dialogue and continuation of that process," Deinego said.

    On Monday, DPR and LPR representatives sent coordinator of the Contact Group's political working subgroup from the OSCE Pierre Morel additional proposals regarding draft amendments to the Ukrainian constitution.

    In particular, they suggest stipulating that the Ukrainian law "On a special procedure of local self-rule in certain districts of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions" be valid without time limits. It is also suggested that the function of ending the powers of chief executives of certain districts with a special status in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions be solely in the jurisdiction of those regions.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Flagship Victory on Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:37 pm

    George1 wrote:Donetsk, Luhansk self-proclaimed republics ready to remain part of Ukraine

    Luhansk republic's representative in the Contact Group on Ukraine Vladislav Deinego commented on new proposals from the unrecognized republics on amendments to the Ukrainian constitution.

    MOSCOW, June 9. /TASS/. The self-proclaimed Luhansk and Donetsk people’s republics (LPR and DPR) are ready to remain part of Ukraine for the sake of ending hostilities in Donbas, LPR plenipotentiary representative in the Contact Group on Ukraine Vladislav Deinego said Tuesday while commenting on new proposals from the LPR and DPR on amendments to the Ukrainian constitution.

    "The fact that Luhansk and Donetsk are ready to meet the Kiev authorities halfway was announced not now by our proposals for the constitution, and not even in the winter. It was announced by the republics back in September last year at the first meeting in Minsk," LuganskInformCenter quoted Deinego as saying.

    "The documents signed September 5 [last year] stipulate movement in that direction. Back then, despite military successes of the militia, for the sake of stopping bloodshed, the republics agreed to such a huge compromise and to remain part of Ukraine as independent entities," he said.

    "It seems unthinkable, but people who seized power in Kiev are not ready to meet halfway our integration back into Ukraine by means of decentralization. Nevertheless, we are still ready for peaceful constructive dialogue and continuation of that process," Deinego said.

    On Monday, DPR and LPR representatives sent coordinator of the Contact Group's political working subgroup from the OSCE Pierre Morel additional proposals regarding draft amendments to the Ukrainian constitution.

    In particular, they suggest stipulating that the Ukrainian law "On a special procedure of local self-rule in certain districts of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions" be valid without time limits. It is also suggested that the function of ending the powers of chief executives of certain districts with a special status in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions be solely in the jurisdiction of those regions.

    Russia refuses to recognizes DPR and LPR. No point for them being separate states. Because no international recognition, they won't get any international investments, and that means a dead end.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:56 am

    Plus a period of real peace and serious autonomy will allow them to improve their situation, and with good relations with neighbouring Russia there is potential for serious development and growth, while still having some influence on Ukraine as a whole in terms of getting rid of the current nazi regime via the ballot box.


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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:47 am

    GarryB wrote:Plus a period of real peace and serious autonomy will allow them to improve their situation, and with good relations with neighbouring Russia there is potential for serious development and growth, while still having some influence on Ukraine as a whole in terms of getting rid of the current nazi regime via the ballot box.

    What do you think will happen when Novorossiya lays down its arms? Real peace and serious autonomy?

    Of course there will be no federal status or even autonomy, but direct rule by Kiev. Thousands of more people will be killed and imprisoned even after the final surrender of DPR and LPR (basically anyone who can be accused of cooperation with the DPR/LPR authorities).

    Naturally the DPR/LPR leadership and all military personnel will have to escape to Russia before the surrender of Novorossiya. They would not be spared by Kiev but they would be all tortured and imprisoned/executed. Any promise of autonomy will be forgotten as soon as Kiev gets the control of the region. The situation will be similar to Odessa and Kharkov. Any resistance of the regime will be brutally oppressed and no dissenting political views will be tolerated.

    But I do understand Novorossiyans. Since Russian help is not coming it is better to capitulate and surrender than to continue this pointless war. Better to be a slave than be dead.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:41 am

    Well you are all rainbows and sunshine aren't you...

    the idea of signing a peace agreement for autonomy is not to surrender... if kiev wants a way out of this then they will listen... otherwise the current situation will continue without end.

    Both sides have a lot to gain from a ceasefire that they cannot get from military means...


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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Teshub on Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:56 am

    Karl Haushofer wrote:Better to be a slave than be dead.
    B******t. Everybody has their limit. In western nations we are already seeing violent riots against austerity, police brutality and soon Orwellian surveillance. Its only going to get worse as people realise they are being gradually subjugated to the point of slavery.

    Once hunger and repression reach a critical point, the Ukrainians are going to rise up once again... this time however, it will not backed by plastic bags of US Dollars and led by Polish trained ultra-nationalists, but by mass civil disobedience. All Novorussia has to do is hold out until the rest of the country collapses.

    I find it disgusting that anyone here would believe that its better to be a slave than fight back and risk death. Your entire life: your home, your disposable income, your full belly, your legal right to a fair trial, free speech, freedom of religion, sexual equality, education, health care - absolutely every bloody thing you have - is ALL the result of generations of common people who have fought against tyranny and slavery, whether it was called feudalism, indentured labour or central government.

    You never, ever piss that away. You fight for it, tooth and nail, yea, even until death.

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    SYRIZA party against EU sanctions against Russia ?

    Post  arpakola on Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:25 pm

    RESOLUTION of SYRIZA - KAISARIANI, District  on the  WAR IN UKRAINE AND  THE planed SANCTIONS of EU AGAINST THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

    http://garizo.blogspot.gr/2015/06/blog-post_10.html
    Today, on 9 June 2015 SYRIZA Kaisarianis voted and adopted the following resolution:
    -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------
    "At the beginning of 2014  the legitimate president of Ukraine was toppled by a violent coup organised by  far right and Nazi elements.
    The inhabitants of the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine did not recognize the new regime and rdecided by referendums  to become independent. In particular the cities of Lugansk and Donetsk they have experienced for the last year the barbarism of the bombing by the Kiev regime with heavy artillery in their cities with carnage of dead and infrastructure disasters.
    For that reason:
    1. We condemn the aggressive actions of the authoritarian regime of Kiev in the cities of East Ukraine
    2. We support the maintenance of MINSK II  Agreement that includes the
    demilitarization of the conflict zone and free from heavy weapons.
    3. We call on the Greek government and the Foreign Ministry not to vote for and to vote against the planned EU sanctions proposal against Russia in late June, sanctions that will hurt also the struggling people of East Ukraine and will support the authoritarian regime of Kiev

    This resolution will be made public and proposed also to  the Central Committee of the party, whih is also invited  to announce a resolution on this  issue. "

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:35 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Plus a period of real peace and serious autonomy will allow them to improve their situation, and with good relations with neighbouring Russia there is potential for serious development and growth, while still having some influence on Ukraine as a whole in terms of getting rid of the current nazi regime via the ballot box.

    What do you think will happen when Novorossiya lays down its arms? Real peace and serious autonomy?

    Of course there will be no federal status or even autonomy, but direct rule by Kiev. Thousands of more people will be killed and imprisoned even after the final surrender of DPR and LPR (basically anyone who can be accused of cooperation with the DPR/LPR authorities).

    Naturally the DPR/LPR leadership and all military personnel will have to escape to Russia before the surrender of Novorossiya. They would not be spared by Kiev but they would be all tortured and imprisoned/executed. Any promise of autonomy will be forgotten as soon as Kiev gets the control of the region. The situation will be similar to Odessa and Kharkov. Any resistance of the regime will be brutally oppressed and no dissenting political views will be tolerated.

    But I do understand Novorossiyans. Since Russian help is not coming it is better to capitulate and surrender than to continue this pointless war. Better to be a slave than be dead.

    Why don't you STFU? Mad People have died in droves and lives have been ruined by the tens of thousands by these filthy Hohol scum and their psychopathic US/EU enablers, and you want to SURRENDER because Russia is playing a long-term balanced response out of strategic necessity???? Quit your crying and stiffen your spine. Mad

    No-one is going to disarm DPR/LPR. No-one is going to lay down arms. At most, the Ukrops will be allowed to station customs and border control officers at crossings into Russia, but they will be limited in number and have side-arms only, and DPR/LPR and Russia can sweep them aside in an instance if needed.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:44 pm

    Teshub wrote:
    Karl Haushofer wrote:Better to be a slave than be dead.
    B******t. Everybody has their limit. In western nations we are already seeing violent riots against austerity, police brutality and soon Orwellian surveillance. Its only going to get worse as people realise they are being gradually subjugated to the point of slavery.

    Once hunger and repression reach a critical point, the Ukrainians are going to rise up once again... this time however, it will not backed by plastic bags of US Dollars and led by Polish trained ultra-nationalists, but by mass civil disobedience. All Novorussia has to do is hold out until the rest of the country collapses.

    I find it disgusting that anyone here would believe that its better to be a slave than fight back and risk death. Your entire life: your home, your disposable income, your full belly, your legal right to a fair trial, free speech, freedom of religion, sexual equality, education, health care - absolutely every bloody thing you have - is ALL the result of generations of common people who have fought against tyranny and slavery, whether it was called feudalism, indentured labour or central government.

    You never, ever piss that away. You fight for it, tooth and nail, yea, even until death.

    +1 there brother... Slavery is worse than death. What we need is some of the old Stalingrad resolve. Fight to the end, no surrender, no retreat, make the bastards pay, and wreak a terrible revenge upon them once the victory is achieved. Well... maybe we need to forgo the revenge and be content with exterminating the Banderistas..

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Flagship Victory on Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:16 pm

    GarryB wrote:Plus a period of real peace and serious autonomy will allow them to improve their situation, and with good relations with neighbouring Russia there is potential for serious development and growth, while still having some influence on Ukraine as a whole in terms of getting rid of the current nazi regime via the ballot box.

    I wouldn't put too much faith in the ballot box. Maidan is notorious for murdering its political opponents. Plus I think Maidan won't even allow Donbas to vote if Donbas remains as part of Ukraine as autonomous republics. If Donbas gives up independence and accepts autonomy as part of Ukraine, then within a week American Abrams tanks would be parked right on Russia's border with Donbas.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:40 pm


    DPR and LPR Confirm What We Said: They Did NOT Recognize Crimea as Ukrainian

    DPR and LPR negotiators bury story caused by misrepresentation of amendments they proposed to Ukraine’s constitution


    Alexander Mercouris

    http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/dpr-and-lpr-confirm-what-we-said-they-did-not-recognise-crimea-ukrainian/ri7897

    Since I wrote my previous piece on this bizarre story (see The LPR and DPR Did NOT Recognize Crimea as Part of Ukraine, Russia Insider, 10th June 2015 http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/lpr-and-dpr-did-not-recognise-crimea-part-ukraine/ri7873) the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics have revoked publication of the amended article 133.

    They did so precisely in order to close the story down.

    In doing so they have provided the identical explanation to the one I did.

    The report from Interfax report setting out the comments of Pushilin and Deinego, the chief negotiators of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, reads as follows:

    “MOSCOW. June 10 (Interfax) - The self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics have decided to revoke additional amendments to the Ukrainian constitution mentioning Crimea and Sevastopol, which they presented to the Trilateral Contact Group two days ago, the Donetsk news agency has said.

    “There is no doubt, the DPR and the LPR regard Crimea as a part of Russia. Moreover, our republics think it would be ideal to join the Russian Federation,” said the report quoting the DPR and LPR negotiators, Denis Pushilin and Vladislav Deinego, as saying.

    The negotiators reiterated the validity of the other amendments.

    “The mention of Crimea in the draft amendments we have proposed to individual articles of the current Ukrainian constitution has a purely technical and legal meaning; this mention does not have any substantive significance for the simple reason that Crimea is not and cannot be a subject of the Minsk negotiations. We suggest that Ukraine should accept the other amendments immediately,” the report said.

    The amendments mentioning Crimea and Sevastopol are being revoked “in order to avoid further speculation, as Ukrainian propaganda is trying present insignificant formalities as a political event,” it said.”


    The Interfax report is interesting in one other respect in that it confirms the People’s Republics’ desire is to unite with Russia.

    Whilst this is in truth a complete non-story, it does again illustrate one particular point.

    The constitutional amendments were published to strengthen Russia’s position in diplomatic discussions that are currently underway.

    They appear to have been published to coincide with a telephone conversation Russian foreign minister Lavrov had with German foreign minister Steinmeier.

    Lavrov complained to Steinmeier about Kiev’s failure to enter into constitutional negotiations with the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, as it is required to do by the terms of the Minsk Memorandum. Publication of the constitutional amendments was intended to remind Steinmeier of Kiev’s obligation to enter into constitutional negotiations and its failure to do so, in contrast to the readiness to do so of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics.

    This is not an unusual play. In 1972 the Vietnamese did the same thing when they published the text of the draft Paris Peace Accords in order to rally diplomatic support on the eve of the US Christmas bombing of Hanoi.

    However in dealing with the Ukrainian government and the Western media such an approach carries risk. As should be obvious by now, they take no prisoners, and given the risk for misrepresentation inherent in publishing draft amendments that should at this stage be discussed only in private, this was perhaps a play too far.

    In any event, with the publication of the latest comments of the negotiators of the People’s Republics, this episode is now closed.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Svyatoslavich on Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:18 am

    I wonder if Russia will want to absorb Donetsk and Lugansk. Crimea joined Russia in a completely peaceful process, with no human or material losses, and requires a lot of investments; imagine how much it would cost these much bigger, more populated and war-torn regions.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:45 am

    Svyatoslavich wrote:I wonder if Russia will want to absorb Donetsk and Lugansk. Crimea joined Russia in a completely peaceful process, with no human or material losses, and requires a lot of investments; imagine how much it would cost these much bigger, more populated and war-torn regions.

    No they dont want. Crimea had the naval base and geographical importance

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Flagship Victory on Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:54 pm

    George1 wrote:In a joint statement the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk people’s republics in eastern Ukraine said that they would like to join Russia.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150610/1023168656.html#ixzz3cfHl0eiH

    Putin won't accept but the next Russian president will absorb. Land is the most valuable thing in the world. Man has fought wars over land for hundreds of thousands of years. It would be stupid to not want land when people there want to join.

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