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    Republic of Novorossiya

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    flamming_python
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    Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:50 am

    Republic of Novorossiya, or Malorus
    Can it.. can it be?  russia russiarussia

    We need to come up with a flag  sunny



    First of all let's recap the current situation, vis-a-vis relations between the Southern and Eastern parts of the Ukraine, and the center - Kiev, and its new government.
    We can see that the Kiev Junta is strongly cracking down on Eastern Ukrainian political activism & organisation, internet media, political independence and identity.

    - Laws have been instituted banning Russian TV media channels, and proposed laws have arisen among which are various calls for withdrawing the Russian language's official status in Eastern Ukrainian regions (the law instating this status was first withdrawn by the new government but then seemingly hastily reinstated), Lustration of old officials, phasing out the Cyrillic alphabet in favour of Latin, outlawing all traces of the Soviet past and national holidays, rewriting history and all sorts of other loony ideas.
    - Maidan-friendly oligarchs have been appointed to run Eastern Ukrainian regions such Kharkov, Zaporozha, Donetsk, Nikolayev and Dneprpetrovsk, displacing all the old leaderships in these regions, not to mention new chiefs of police, SBU and so on. Many of these oligarchs have been implicated in mafia activities, serious crimes and in effect the whole 'battle against corruption' that the Maidan protestors claim to have been fighting for; has now been decided in such a way - that Eastern Ukraine is stuck with more corrupt rulers and officials than ever before.
    - Lenin statues as well as statues of Kirov and other famous figures have been smashed and taken down by Maidan activists arriving to Eastern regions under the sponsorship of the new government and protected by the police under the orders of the very same new government. In fact Lenin statues have been outlawed by the new government or at least that was one of the proposals. In some Eastern Ukrainian cities, public squares were even provocatively renamed to heroes of Maidan squares, despite the opposition of the local population. When this was resisted by the Oplot organisation in Kharkov, its leader became wanted by the police for questioning.
    - Party of Regions officials (i.e. Eastern-Ukrainian and Russian-speakers political representitives) have been purged of all government positions, while Party of Regions and Communist Party deputies have been coerced under threat into passing whatever laws and resolutions the other political party's deputies want in the duma; some have been beaten and even tortured.
    - Mass anti-Russian hysteria has swept the country, all TV media and all major internet media has come under the control of the new government, with those opposed being threatened or closed-down. Internet forums have also been taken over by pro-Maidan, pro-Bandera moderators over the past few years; including even those of most Eastern Ukrainian cities such as Dneprpetrovsk and Kharkov, with pro-Russian posters being simply banned over the past two weeks. Eastern Ukrainians have had to rapidly organise the hosting of new forums.
    - Pravyj Sektor militants are being given more and more of a central role, as police forces in Kiev and Western Ukraine, as security for Maidan protestors in Eastern regions, etc... and now also as official military formations of some description and designation.
    - Berkut police units - hailed as heroes by the Eastern half of the country - have been disbanded, and in the case of those hailing from Western regions; humiliated, threatened, beaten, etc... basically they now feel very unwelcome in their own homes. Criminal cases opened in regards to the shooting of police forces and Berkut members during the last few days of the old government have been closed. Berkut have been accused of most of the killings that have taken place, are the target of scorn and hatred, etc...
    - Eastern Ukrainian political activists have been threatened, beaten, arrested, smeared in the media and labelled as Russian provocatuers, etc... while the meetings themselves have been either completely ignored or derided in the Ukrainian press as consisting of 'Titushki' (paid provocateurs) or arrivals from Russia. Police reinforcements have been flooding various Eastern regions in order to prevent protestors ousting any of their new leaders appointed by Kiev. No demands have been met, no referendums are planned. The 21st of February political summit of Eastern Ukrainian regional leaders was labeled by the Ukrainian SBU as an attempt at separatism, and many of its attendants were forced to hide or flee to Russia right after its conclusion.

    And this isn't even to mention the situation with the Crimea, where provocations by Crimean Tatar radicals were organised by Pravyj Sektor militants, where the Ukrainian media has been waging a non-stop propaganda war, various provocateurs have been trying to destabilise the situation, and now where it looks like the Ukraine is attempting to send all of its combat-capable military units to.

    I think that under such conditions it's impossible to talk about any sorts of compromises or negotiations by Eastern regions with the authorities in Kiev, and the authorities in Kiev look like they are there to stay. Even if they fall, someone even more authoritarian will simply replace them.
    The talk of federalization looks unlikely too, the Kiev junta is having none of it, and is cracking down on all dissent and on free speech.
    Russia's game plan, if it aims towards federalization, would have to arrive at it as a result of a EU/US-Russian compromise; because the current Kiev government isn't about to give way. And even if Russia does get federalization - what then? What's the point of it? Regions will still have to follow the center when it comes to the most important questions, and the country won't be able to be part of 2 economic alliances at the same time. The country will still be in just as much trouble as before; because unless it joins the Eurasian Custom's Union it's industrial economy will suffer severe degradation. Russia would be crazy to give any money to such a country, or try and save it.

    I think the only sensible solution is for the Eastern Ukrainian regions to unite and form their own republic.
    A new Russia, a new Russian-speaking nation on Russia's Western borders, a hub of industry and a beacon of transit, motherland to all who call it home of any race or origin, with a large population and huge potential.
    i.e. What the Ukraine SHOULD have been in the first place - instead of the mess that that it has become of nationalists, Russophobes and general loonies.
    So now, it's important to start all over again. And this time DO IT RIGHT.
    No Western regions, no Nazi-worshiping nonsense or slogans, no blaming the 'Moskals' for all their problems, no 'Holodomor' Ukrainian genocide myth, no forced Ukrainization and some anti-Russian trash history being taught at school, no signing up for American nation-building in the Middle-East, no decaying industry and dying population, no oligarchs ruling and manipulating the country... no, none of that - BUT INSTEAD; fraternal ties to brotherly Russia, membership in the CSTO military alliance, membership of the EurASEC customs union and further economic integration projects, Russian as an official language, minority rights and support for minority languages, keeping alive many of the Soviet traditions that binded its constituent republics together, birth-rate increases & focus on healthcare, etc...

    Malorus is...
    - 8 regions (Donetsk, Lugansk, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa, Nikolayev, Kherson, Zaporozhia),
    - 3 autonomous republics (Crimea, Transdniestr/Pridnestrovie & Gagauzia*),
    - 1 city with a special status (Sevastopol)
    - 2 state languages (Russian & Ukrainian), 3 languages with a regional status (Crimean Tatar, Gagauz & Moldovan)
    - 22 million people; Ukrainians, Russians, Crimean Tatars, Jews, Moldovans, Gagauz Turks & Bulgarians
    - Over 100,000 square miles of land,
    - Shipyards of Nikolayev, Mariupol, Kherson, Kerch & Sevastopol,
    - Ports of Odessa, Sevastopol, Mariupol, Yevpatoria, Kherson, Yalta, Feodosia, Kerch, Nikolayev, Berdnyansk & Illichivsk,
    - Climate and resorts of the Crimea, Odessa seaside,
    - Metropolises of Kharkov, Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk & Donetsk,
    - Heavy Industry of Pridnestrovie, Donbass, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhie, Nikolayev & Kharkov,
    - Tank factory & Antonov aircraft factory of Kharkov, Rocket design & production of Dnepropetrovsk, Carrier aircraft training facility of the Crimea, Aviation engine production of Zaporozhia, Naval base of Sevastopol, Naval shipbuilding of Nikolayev.

    * = not shown on the map above

    cheers  cheers  cheers

    Now you may ask - why is a seperate republic neccessary, why not just annex it into Russia? A multitude of good reasons.

    1. So as to not alarm Russia's CIS neighbours and even close allies; particularly Belarus and Kazakhstan, but also others such as Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. A straight up annexation would get them worried about their own territory; the consequences would be unpredictable. It will push Russia's neighbours away from the idea of regional integration, and towards the West to attain security guarantees, and rightly so. And of course with the Ukraine itself - there will be constant military tensions, provocations or whatever.

    2. So as to not alarm everyone else, and also not to give anyone else any ideas; whether friend like China, neutral like Japan, Finland, Turkey or Western Europe, or adverse such as most of Eastern Europe, Sweden and the United States. Basically it won't lead to anything good in terms of Russia's relations with the rest of the world, it would set very dangerous precedents which could have repercussions particularly in East and South-East Asia where various actors such as China might attempt to employ them, it will alarm the United States, lead to a rise of military tensions, cut-back in contacts, decrease of a co-operation on terrorism and a ruining in the rapprochement/increasing business ties between Russia and several of its immediate Western neighbours such as Finland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland. Likely it would lead to less business and in particular defense and energy co-operation with France, Britain, Germany and so on too.

    3. A separate republic on the contrary will be more acceptable to the rest of the world, if it comes about as a result of the will of the people of the Eastern Ukraine (just as the Junta in Kiev has come about as result of the will of the people there); Western nations and the rest of the world would be more inclined to look at it as a natural entity and recognize it, particularly if as the result of a compromise with Russia, in order to defuse East-West tension and avoid a new Cold War. Such a compromise can entail the right to hold referendums not only in the Ukraine but in neighbouring regions of Moldova too on joining it (i.e. Gagauzia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauzia), as well as the seperatist republic of Pridnestrovie; while everyone else will be free to remain in the Ukraine and Moldova and join EU/NATO or do whatever; splitting the bills and debts accordingly and not having to worry about East Ukrainian industry; which will make it far cheaper for the West to integrate those territories and avoid a massive headache.

    4. Because a large people such as the Ukrainians deserve their own state, a proper state and not a failed Somalia like the current Ukraine is becoming. Even in Eastern Ukraine, ethnic Ukrainians are a majority. The idea is not to make Russia bigger; it's already big enough - but to re-create the Ukraine, with equal support for the Ukrainian language and people as for the Russian language and people there. And like I said - to do it right; without losing sight of their ties with Russia. The creation of such a state, an 'Eastern Ukraine', will make it more enticing for those Eastern Ukrainians hovering on the borderline and not quite stepping up for annexation into Russia, and it will also be more appealing in the future for other Ukrainian territories to join it too; such as the Kirovograd oblast and a couple of other bordering ones, where the Banderovite propaganda is not yet so entrenched. The ultimate aim should be to liberate Kiev eventually  pirat

    5. Because it's not necessary to have absolutely everything in one big wallop of a country, and a little more decentralization via means of separate countries while sharing the same economic/political/military union might make things more efficient and encourage some competition. Eastern Ukraine has already been seperate from Russia for 23 years, and was in a separate USSR republic for decades before that, so while it's links with Russia are very substantial, it's got a huge amount of trade and integration between itself too, and may function better as a self-contained economic/industrial heartland; with its own military, merchant fleet, heavy industries, defense products, etc... Malorus can have different laws, policies, etc... to Russia and other countries; and it will be possible to see which ones work better, or for people to move to Malorus if they desire something new and different.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:51 am; edited 3 times in total

    flamming_python
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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:41 am

    I even created a new country in nationstates.net
    http://www.nationstates.net/nation=novorussia

    National animal is the Golden Eagle (Berkut)  Wink 

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:05 am

    Yeah flamming you are doing a fine job.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:15 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Yeah flamming you are doing a fine job.

    Yeah, now we just have to create it in real life too  Twisted Evil 

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:31 am

    Yeah, basically I am not sure about the plan.  Laughing 
    You see the problem is that by separating all the Russian oblasts and Transnistria you end up with a 100% western friendly Ukraine and Moldova.
    Which is a bad thing because you basically lose all your leverage in central Europe.
    But I do agree with you that by pressing for such developments you impose the maximum pressure.
    In a country with a huge Russian minority to try so hard to ally yourself with Russia's enemies is simply paranoia.
    Obviously the substantial Russian minority was way too resilient all those years and should reactivate as fast as possible.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:24 am

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Yeah, basically I am not sure about the plan.  Laughing 
    You see the problem is that by separating all the Russian oblasts and Transnistria you end up with a 100% western friendly Ukraine and Moldova.
    Which is a bad thing because you basically lose all your leverage in central Europe.
    But I do agree with you that by pressing for such developments you impose the maximum pressure.
    In a country with a huge Russian minority to try so hard to ally yourself with Russia's enemies is simply paranoia.
    Obviously the substantial Russian minority was way too resilient all those years and should reactivate as fast as possible.

    If the pro-Western populations in the Ukraine and Moldova are willing to use coups to take away the voices of the pro-Russian population, then influencing them this way is no longer possible and the point of having them with pro-Russians in the same country also disappears. Both sides will be better off seperating, otherwise they will just keep on destroying themselves and their country.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:59 am

    I cannot disagree with this, I just think that reacting too fast to separate and clean the situation is not the right way either.
    Don't get me wrong, I am all in for parades, manifestations, disobedience to Kiev, a counter-coup ANYTHING.
    But I just don't think that separating immediately is the way to go like I was not thinking that letting Baltics go into NATO or letting ALL Eastern countries integrating to EU at once was the right way. Russia was going to emerge. EU will go down. Even if you take into account how useless Russians are to create a semi-decent economy from their gigantic country or how stubborn Germans are keeping alive a lost case it is nevertheless inevitable when you see the big picture and project a few years ahead (btw I think the only people who realize this and react accordingly are the Estonians, all the rest seem to be in a permanent state of illusion).
    Anyway burning the bridges is not the right treatment IMO and this is what Russia always does and is already proven wrong.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:04 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:I cannot disagree with this, I just think that reacting too fast to separate and clean the situation is not the right way either.
    Don't get me wrong, I am all in for parades, manifestations, disobedience to Kiev, a counter-coup ANYTHING.
    But I just don't think that separating immediately is the way to go like I was not thinking that letting Baltics go into NATO or letting ALL Eastern countries integrating to EU at once was the right way. Russia was going to emerge. EU will go down.

    What Russia needs now is to make sure their economic union is a successful project. The Ukraine, as the 2nd largest ex-USSR republic in population size and industry by far - is a lynchpin of this strategy. Or was. Now there's nothing left to attach.
    But a seperate Eastern Ukraine would still be very workable, it contains 70% of what Russia needs from the Ukraine, and with only a fraction of the headache. So, what's not to love?

    Even if you take into account how useless Russians are to create a semi-decent economy from their gigantic country or how stubborn Germans are keeping alive a lost case it is inevitable when you see the big picture and project a few years ahead (btw I think the only people who realize this and react accordingly are the Estonians, all the rest seem to be in a permanent state of illusion).

    Why Estonians just out of interest?

    Anyway burning the bridges is not the right treatment IMO and this is what Russia always does and is already proven wrong.

    I would normally agree, and I was all for the Ukraine remaining whole up until the events of the last 2-3 weeks.
    But now after doing a little thinking I just can't see it as anything else other than a failed state. I can't see any future for it. The government is getting more and more desperate and undertaking more and more repression; it's like the fall of the USSR. No bridges are left to burn, the whole country is in cinders, or at the very least it's sinking like the titanic, and its going to drag down the Eastern Ukraine with it.

    The only hope to salvage some of it is for the pro-Russian regions to separate.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:37 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Yeah, now we just have to create it in real life too  Twisted Evil 

    The referendum should be held not just in Crimea but in Eastern Ukraine too . I suspect they too want to break away from the Western part . A situation similar to what is unfolding in Pakistan .

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:14 pm

    What is unfolding in Pakistan?

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:35 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:What is unfolding in Pakistan?

    The Western & Southern provinces are trying to break away from Punjab .

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:21 pm

    This is more than great! I hope they are pro Indian.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:31 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:What is unfolding in Pakistan?

    The Western & Southern provinces are trying to break away from Punjab .

    Which was the plan of the Pentagon in the first place, to destabilize Pakistan with drone bombings, to destroy the credibility of the Pakistani central govt., and to weaken China indirectly.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  xeno on Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:35 pm

    Sujoy wrote:
    Hannibal Barca wrote:What is unfolding in Pakistan?

    The Western & Southern provinces are trying to break away from Punjab .
    Very interesting. Any details or analysis article(map) on the internet?

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:45 pm

    The most logical flag for it would be the flag of the ukrainian SSR, it would nicely fit in the the political opinions of the population there also.

    Or perhaps it adopting the flag of transnistria(and it would be a very good idea of the 2 nations unite).

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Firebird on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:07 pm

    Its difficult to decide which solution. Novorossiya obviously has its benefits.

    The downside is:-
    1)Loss of Kiev.
    2)Many Russian speakers/ Russia-leaners are left in the Ukrainian Nazi cesspool
    3) Loss of the strategic aspect of the Carpathians.
    4)Loss of substantial land  and more reasonable people to the Nazi loons.
    5) No control whatsoever over the West of the Ukraine.
    6)Potential NATO militarisation even ABMs in the West.
    7)The Ukrainian Nazis get a benefit from their ethnic cleansing in the Great Patriotic War, and their terrorist acts more recently.
    8)Maybe ethnic cleansing atrocities for peope living in the "wrong" area.

    Perhaps another big option is federalisation of the Ukraine. With different broadly/wholly autonomous republics. All states in the federation have to respect minorities. The S and East could be effectively managed from Moscow. Part would be "neutral" ie neither Lvov-leaning or governed direct from Moscow. Moscow retains the right to have bases in the Carpathians. But otherwise the West Ukrainians can trade with the EU etc.

    Perhaps let the Nationalist Ukr. scum liase with Brussels, on the condition the do not join NATO. Their defence could be jtly guaranteed from the Federal Ukraine and Moscow.

    In other words, in one way, like Greenland and Denmark which are part of one overall country. In another, a little like the EU and Switzerland. 

    Novorossiya currently has a lot of power over the 45m Ukraine. Even more, with a Russian gun pointed at it. Does it make sense to give up winnable neutral areas that readily?

    But overall, Id like to see the S and East effectively join  with Russia, just adding Kiev and a few bits. And a buffer zone in the West, vs Nato.

    Its not easy to do by negotiation. Maybe a little "gentle pressure" is needed? eg military protection against political persection against the Russian speakers.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Sujoy on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:31 pm

    xeno wrote:Very interesting. Any details or analysis article(map) on the internet?

    Plenty . Here are a few links :

    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/interview/if-there-is-a-referendum-in-balochistan-people-will-vote-for-independence/article5767487.ece

    http://indianexpress.com/article/world/americas/us-says-it-does-not-support-independence-for-balochistan/

    The North West Frontier Province ( in Pakistan) is even more interesting .

    The British had signed a deal with the Afghans under which NWFP was "leased" to British India . The duration of this "lease" was for 100 years .Now Afghanistan wants NWFP back as the timeline for the lease has elapsed and Pakistan won't give it up .

    http://blogs.aljazeera.com/blog/asia/afghan-poll-candidates-debate-foreign-policy

    Then there is the issue with Sindh demanding independence from Pakistan .

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:09 am

    Firebird wrote:Its difficult to decide which solution. Novorossiya obviously has its benefits.

    The downside is:-
    1)Loss of Kiev.
    2)Many Russian speakers/ Russia-leaners are left in the Ukrainian Nazi cesspool
    3) Loss of the strategic aspect of the Carpathians.
    4)Loss of substantial land  and more reasonable people to the Nazi loons.
    5) No control whatsoever over the West of the Ukraine.
    6)Potential NATO militarisation even ABMs in the West.
    7)The Ukrainian Nazis get a benefit from their ethnic cleansing in the Great Patriotic War, and their terrorist acts more recently.
    8)Maybe ethnic cleansing atrocities for peope living in the "wrong" area.

    Yep, completely agree, but really - we lost all that already in 1991.

    This is just a proposal to salvage what's left, what we can

    Perhaps another big option is federalisation of the Ukraine. With different broadly/wholly autonomous republics. All states in the federation have to respect minorities. The S and East could be effectively managed from Moscow. Part would be "neutral" ie neither Lvov-leaning or governed direct from Moscow. Moscow retains the right to have bases in the Carpathians. But otherwise the West Ukrainians can trade with the EU etc.

    Perhaps let the Nationalist Ukr. scum liase with Brussels, on the condition the do not join NATO. Their defence could be jtly guaranteed from the Federal Ukraine and Moscow.

    In other words, in one way, like Greenland and Denmark which are part of one overall country. In another, a little like the EU and Switzerland. 

    Novorossiya currently has a lot of power over the 45m Ukraine. Even more, with a Russian gun pointed at it. Does it make sense to give up winnable neutral areas that readily?

    Actually that sounds like not a bad idea. Question is - will the Ukr. Nazis accept it? Will the current Kiev government even?
    I think no on both counts, the Ukr. nationalists in particular have shown that they are very determined and will go to any length to bring the course of the country under their thumb, and are willing to crush dissent. They are also fixated on the idea of building a homogenous Ukrainian nation; greater Russian cultural influence will not be acceptable for them.

    I think the majority of the Ukraine's population, even in the West - would find the idea of federalization acceptable but there are too many radical elements about, and now they are armed too. So it will be pretty difficult to pull it off even if the EU and Russia agree on it.

    But overall, Id like to see the S and East effectively join  with Russia, just adding Kiev and a few bits. And a buffer zone in the West, vs Nato.

    Its not easy to do by negotiation. Maybe a little "gentle pressure" is needed? eg military protection against political persection against the Russian speakers.

    IMO, direct annexation is the least favorable option. The advantages are that it would clearly circumvent the potential issue of non-recognition by this or that country, provides a guarantee of Moscow's control and includes these territories into the Russian nation, leads to a larger Russian population & territory, as well as direct economic benefits from taxes and industries.

    However, it carries the largest international penalties for Russia, sets very dangerous precedents and would complicate the enticement of other Ukrainian regions down the line, as well as closer integration with Russian neighbors except through arm-twisting when overwhelming leverage is present.
    I think we learnt from the USSR that Cold Wars, alarming neighbours and so on isn't a good idea. Neither is making your country too heterogeneous and including too many regions where separatist movements can arise.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:16 am



    Well here's the flag I made. Sorta like a mix between the Russian and the SSR one.

    Might be worth it to come up with some policies, economic development plans, military composition & equipment, international relations priorities, etc...

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  xeno on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:34 am

    Thank you Sujoy,
    First time to know about these things...

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:35 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    Well here's the flag I made. Sorta like a mix between the Russian and the SSR one.

    Might be worth it to come up with some policies, economic development plans, military composition & equipment, international relations priorities, etc...

    I think you should add white since all Slavic nations like Czech,Yugoslavia,Serbia,Russia,Slovakia,Slovenia and Crotia use white (peace) blue (freedom) and red (valor), except ukraine which was indoctrinated to believe they have a very own ethnicity while they are actually russian let alone believe that Ukraine was a country all along existent before kiewer Rus, like some stupid ukrainian nationalists try to rewrite slavic history.

    Ukraine is the russian word for people who lived at the rim/boarder to europe.
    U means in russian At or nearby and Krain means boarder or rim which litteraly means At-rim living people, not an ethnicity not a seperate country it was just made up during bolshewik revolution and such nonsense as the holodomor of "ukrainians" was invented while there is no such ethnicity and therefore not a genocide against ukrainians but russians by bolshewik.

    flamming_python
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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:33 am

    Found something better  Wink 

    http://arcktick.livejournal.com/14341.html
    arcktick.livejournal.com/2014/03/05/







    Alllriiiighttt, now this is what I'm talkin' about!

    There is a discussion going on right now. Basically the same coat of arms, but with a 2-headed Berkut golden eagle rather than a standard eagle, and with different symbols in its claws, say an anchor and a hammer
    http://antifashist.com/forum/stat-discus/12140-lr.html

    This flag meanwhile can be used for the Novorussian fleet

    Werewolf
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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:47 am

    Looks good.

    Vann7
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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:36 pm

    It will have been nice to see Russia to join with Ukraine like in soviet times but with democracy but realistically
    speaking that will never happen there is too much hate in the west.. and US-Poland and Lithuania have done everything possible to sabotage any possible reconciliation of Russia with Ukraine. The only way Russia can pull former soviet republics back is with a very solid and strong economy..and massive modernization of their infrastructure at least all major Russian cities from Moscow to the west ,Sochi style.

    Aside of economy and modernization of the country , things like a manned mission to the moon and mars before the west will truly raise Russia popularity among former Soviet republics and  to seriously consider returning against with a new soviet union like but under a democracy and open country.  

    When Yuri gagarin for example became first man in space.. there was not a single president in the planet that wasnt impressed about Russia and talking about their technological success. And he was received like holywood star in every Nation. SO Russia needs to pull another Sochi event ..but this time in Space.. travel to the moon (or mars)  without holywood fake landing.. and let the world to know that Russia is the most advanced Nation in the world ,with better future and anyone can fulfill all their dreams in Russia.

    Economy and investors.. is something 100% connected with people Perception. Nothing will be more positive for Russia to travel with a manned mission to the moon or mars.

    flamming_python
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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:46 pm



    This is what we need to move towards  What a Face 
    Glad to see some recognition is dawning amongst the peoples of the Ukrainian south-east that an independent, united south-eastern republic will serve them and their interests better than declaring a bunch of separate independent republics, or staying as republics in a federal Ukraine, or being annexed into Russia piecemeal, bit by bit.

    IMO this is the best variant of all and is something that most south-east Ukrainians can get behind; without the insecurity of being lone, separate, unrecognized republics or part of a federal Ukraine with a power-hungry repressive government. Meanwhile those south-east Ukrainians who don't want to join Russia will get to keep their independence but in a country that isn't a failed state; but actually has real perspectives, and is too large and populous to simply stay unrecognized even by the EU & US.

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    Re: Republic of Novorossiya

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