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    Vann7

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    Post  Vann7 on Fri May 16, 2014 4:01 am

    How that works? Chechenia republic its special police or military receive the same military equipment ,future soldier gear and training than the Russian Federation in moscow ?  For example can Chechen republic that is inside the Russian federation ,can chechen republic its special forces receive Kornets-D missile and same weapons that the Russian Federation special forces and army ,like a T-90A tank?
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    Post  Asf on Fri May 16, 2014 8:04 am

    Vann7 wrote:How that works? Chechenia republic its special police or military receive the same military equipment ,future soldier gear and training than the Russian Federation in moscow ?  For example can Chechen republic that is inside the Russian federation ,can chechen republic its special forces receive Kornets-D missile and same weapons that the Russian Federation special forces and army ,like a T-90A tank?
    Chechnia is a part of Russian Federation. Most of the T-90A are in the Joint Command South, and Chechnia is the part of that Joint Command.
    There are their own ministries of internal affairs (republican MVDs) in federal republics (like Chechnia), which are subordinate to the federal ministry of internal affairs, but still have some degree of independence (locals are on the commanding posts, ect.), and the Army is strictly federal with the rigid chain of command (they are mostly russians from other federal subjects serving in Chechnia, but still there are many local-born contract soldiers). This situation influences on the logistics: local MVD's can buy equipment from it's own budgets, for example, iirc, the Army's supply is strictly centralized with little exceptions (unit's commanders have autority over some common tasks fundings, as I know, but not the munition supply or vehicles).
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    Post  Vann7 on Fri May 16, 2014 9:14 am

    Asf wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:How that works? Chechenia republic its special police or military receive the same military equipment ,future soldier gear and training than the Russian Federation in moscow ?  For example can Chechen republic that is inside the Russian federation ,can chechen republic its special forces receive Kornets-D missile and same weapons that the Russian Federation special forces and army ,like a T-90A tank?
    Chechnia is a part of Russian Federation. Most of the T-90A are in the Joint Command South, and Chechnia is the part of that Joint Command.
    There are their own ministries of internal affairs (republican MVDs) in federal republics (like Chechnia), which are subordinate to the federal ministry of internal affairs, but still have some degree of independence (locals are on the commanding posts, ect.), and the Army is strictly federal with the rigid chain of command (they are mostly russians from other federal subjects serving in Chechnia, but still there are many local-born contract soldiers). This situation influences on the logistics: local MVD's can buy equipment from it's own budgets, for example, iirc, the Army's supply is strictly centralized with little exceptions (unit's commanders have autority over some common tasks fundings, as I know, but not the munition supply or vehicles).

    So are there many chechens that joins the Russian army? or its rare?
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    Post  Asf on Fri May 16, 2014 10:40 am

    Vann7 wrote:
    So are there many chechens that joins the Russian army? or its rare?
    I do not know the exact numbers. There is still no conscription from Chechnia and usually you have to serve as a conscript to join the Army later as a contract soldier (but no an officer, officers go in a different path). But still chechens are a bit wild and warlike people (highlanders are all the same), they like to be warriors. And still not that much job in the republic and contract solders do have good salary for a not very reach region (many of them goes to different other regions of Russia for the job though).

    I know there are many different MVD units in Chechnia, which consists of chechens only (they fought terrorists primely on they own for the long time), and some of them serves in the Army (there is rumors about chechen-only battalion(s) like disbanded Vostok and Zapad, do not know for sure).
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    Post  sepheronx on Fri May 16, 2014 4:14 pm

    Vann7 wrote:
    Asf wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:How that works? Chechenia republic its special police or military receive the same military equipment ,future soldier gear and training than the Russian Federation in moscow ?  For example can Chechen republic that is inside the Russian federation ,can chechen republic its special forces receive Kornets-D missile and same weapons that the Russian Federation special forces and army ,like a T-90A tank?
    Chechnia is a part of Russian Federation. Most of the T-90A are in the Joint Command South, and Chechnia is the part of that Joint Command.
    There are their own ministries of internal affairs (republican MVDs) in federal republics (like Chechnia), which are subordinate to the federal ministry of internal affairs, but still have some degree of independence (locals are on the commanding posts, ect.), and the Army is strictly federal with the rigid chain of command (they are mostly russians from other federal subjects serving in Chechnia, but still there are many local-born contract soldiers). This situation influences on the logistics: local MVD's can buy equipment from it's own budgets, for example, iirc, the Army's supply is strictly centralized with little exceptions (unit's commanders have autority over some common tasks fundings, as I know, but not the munition supply or vehicles).

    So are there many chechens that joins the Russian army? or its rare?

    They have their own regions military units, I think the 58th Army is mostly Chechen? At least was during 2008 war.

    Chechens make good mercenaries for Russian's in conflicts. Many were used during the Chechen war against their own, as it was a struggle for power via the tribes as well. And in the future, Cossacks and Chechens will still be used as a form of mercenaries for the Russian gov, which is a benefit over anything else, as Mercenaries are more likely to do the task at hand because they are doing it for moeny over pride, and as well, they are still "their own" so they do not get this entire feeling of being "ruled" over by anyone else. They are given tasks to do, and they go do it based upon how they think is best (which is usually a brutal and less than human like, which I am not a fan of).

    this is what I gathered from reading around since the 2008 conflict.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 17, 2014 11:58 am

    They have their own regions military units, I think the 58th Army is mostly Chechen? At least was during 2008 war.

    Chechens make good mercenaries for Russian's in conflicts. Many were used during the Chechen war against their own, as it was a struggle for power via the tribes as well. And in the future, Cossacks and Chechens will still be used as a form of mercenaries for the Russian gov, which is a benefit over anything else, as Mercenaries are more likely to do the task at hand because they are doing it for moeny over pride, and as well, they are still "their own" so they do not get this entire feeling of being "ruled" over by anyone else. They are given tasks to do, and they go do it based upon how they think is best (which is usually a brutal and less than human like, which I am not a fan of).

    this is what I gathered from reading around since the 2008 conflict.

    Change Chechens for Scottish and Russia for UK or England and you could say the same thing... The Scots in the British Army aren't all fighting for Queen and country and the vast majority are infantry units AFAIK...

    The Chechens have a fighting spirit which can be used... and abused.

    They are no more mercenary than any other professional soldier (who also fights for money BTW).
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    Post  flamming_python on Sun May 18, 2014 11:43 pm

    sepheronx wrote:I think the 58th Army is mostly Chechen?  At least was during 2008 war.

    Chechenia republic Ip6jx7

    Chechens make good mercenaries for Russian's in conflicts.  Many were used during the Chechen war against their own, as it was a struggle for power via the tribes as well.  And in the future, Cossacks and Chechens will still be used as a form of mercenaries for the Russian gov, which is a benefit over anything else, as Mercenaries are more likely to do the task at hand because they are doing it for moeny over pride, and as well, they are still "their own" so they do not get this entire feeling of being "ruled" over by anyone else.  They are given tasks to do, and they go do it based upon how they think is best (which is usually a brutal and less than human like, which I am not a fan of).

    this is what I gathered from reading around since the 2008 conflict.

    Chechen battalions performed professionally and effectively in Georgia 2008, they successfully assaulted a Georgian unit and took them captive. No beheadings, earcuttings, anything like that. Only thing is that the captives ended up with quite a few bruises but nothing more than that.
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    Post  Asf on Mon May 19, 2014 10:29 am

    I think the 58th Army is mostly Chechen? At least was during 2008 war.
    Lol  Very Happy  And don't forget chechen Black Sea Fleet and chechen VDV in Abkhazia.

    It's really funny to see how people are scared with virtual chechens sended to own their asses - georgians first, then ukrainian ''national guard' in the South-East.It is worth two wars to earn such a nice reputation
    I can't wait to see a NATO army abandon their position because of chechen horde assaulting their front.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon May 19, 2014 10:41 am

    Actually I should say that in many ways they are like the Gurkas in the British Army... I mentioned the Scottish because the Scottish are part of the UK like Chechnia is part of the Russian Federation and of course Nepal is no part of the UK.

    Claims of being fearsome warriors... but in reality they turn out to be dedicated professionals.
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    Post  Asf on Mon May 19, 2014 10:46 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Claims of being fearsome warriors... but in reality they turn out to be dedicated professionals.
    Chechens of Vostok battalion had great experince of an assymetric warfare, because many of them were insurgents before they turned sides and join pro-russian forces. Nowadays many chechens in internal troops in Chechnia do have good anti-terrorist experience. But most of chechen reputation is about being a ruthless headtaker and a fearless fanatic. Greorgians in 2008 were scared of being murdured instead of being captured by chechens.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon May 19, 2014 11:53 am

    But most of chechen reputation is about being a ruthless headtaker and a fearless fanatic. Greorgians in 2008 were scared of being murdured instead of being captured by chechens.

    Which is why I mentioned the Gurkhas... often rumour and suggestion make them more than they are. Many Argentine soldiers thought the Gurkhas would eat them during the Falklands war...
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    Post  Asf on Mon May 19, 2014 1:48 pm

    Which is why I mentioned the Gurkhas...
    I agree with you. And don't forget about cossacks  Smile  After napoleonic wars they earned similar fearful reputation.
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    Post  Regular on Mon May 19, 2014 3:12 pm

    Vostok troops didn't cut POWs heads, rather gave them good beating, injured their index fingers so they wouldn't use guns when released and exchanged them. Most of chechens there were young guys who never been insurgents before. But there were plenty of veterans too. I can understand why chechens fought Russia on first war and why they joined russian side on second. First war could be way different if Putin would've been president then.
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 19, 2014 5:06 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:I think the 58th Army is mostly Chechen?  At least was during 2008 war.

    Chechenia republic Ip6jx7

    Chechens make good mercenaries for Russian's in conflicts.  Many were used during the Chechen war against their own, as it was a struggle for power via the tribes as well.  And in the future, Cossacks and Chechens will still be used as a form of mercenaries for the Russian gov, which is a benefit over anything else, as Mercenaries are more likely to do the task at hand because they are doing it for moeny over pride, and as well, they are still "their own" so they do not get this entire feeling of being "ruled" over by anyone else.  They are given tasks to do, and they go do it based upon how they think is best (which is usually a brutal and less than human like, which I am not a fan of).

    this is what I gathered from reading around since the 2008 conflict.

    Chechen battalions performed professionally and effectively in Georgia 2008, they successfully assaulted a Georgian unit and took them captive. No beheadings, earcuttings, anything like that. Only thing is that the captives ended up with quite a few bruises but nothing more than that.

    There was a Reason I added a ?. I remember reading chechen divisions so I figured they were in 58th as they were sent to Georgia, no?

    Still, regardless if they acted professional or not, they make good mercs for Russia.
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    Post  Regular on Mon May 19, 2014 5:57 pm

    You can't really call a servicemen who gave their oath a merc. You would be surprised that most of chechens actualy prefer to live in federation. They have their own control of their country like no Soviet Republic had. They like stability, federal funds and they like to have their say in a country. Their culture is entangled with russian. They like watching russian tv, listening russian music and russian is their second tongue. Clan mentality is becoming thing of the past and mafia are becoming buisnessmen. Now Ukraine looks much worse than Chechnya
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    Post  sepheronx on Mon May 19, 2014 6:44 pm

    Regular wrote:You can't really call a servicemen who gave their oath a merc. You would be surprised that most of chechens actualy prefer to live in federation. They have their own control of their country like no Soviet Republic had. They like stability, federal funds and they like to have their say in a country. Their culture is entangled with russian. They like watching russian tv, listening russian music and russian is their second tongue. Clan mentality is becoming thing of the past and mafia are becoming buisnessmen. Now Ukraine looks much worse than Chechnya

    I cant deny that! Good point.
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    Post  TR1 on Tue May 20, 2014 12:37 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:
    Asf wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:How that works? Chechenia republic its special police or military receive the same military equipment ,future soldier gear and training than the Russian Federation in moscow ?  For example can Chechen republic that is inside the Russian federation ,can chechen republic its special forces receive Kornets-D missile and same weapons that the Russian Federation special forces and army ,like a T-90A tank?
    Chechnia is a part of Russian Federation. Most of the T-90A are in the Joint Command South, and Chechnia is the part of that Joint Command.
    There are their own ministries of internal affairs (republican MVDs) in federal republics (like Chechnia), which are subordinate to the federal ministry of internal affairs, but still have some degree of independence (locals are on the commanding posts, ect.), and the Army is strictly federal with the rigid chain of command (they are mostly russians from other federal subjects serving in Chechnia, but still there are many local-born contract soldiers). This situation influences on the logistics: local MVD's can buy equipment from it's own budgets, for example, iirc, the Army's supply is strictly centralized with little exceptions (unit's commanders have autority over some common tasks fundings, as I know, but not the munition supply or vehicles).

    So are there many chechens that joins the Russian army? or its rare?

    They have their own regions military units, I think the 58th Army is mostly Chechen?  At least was during 2008 war.

    .

    Not even close to mostly Chechen. You are thinking of the two Chechen "special" units, but the 58th did not have particularly many Chechens. Or people from Kavkaz in general, at least what the pics showed. That was of course not the entirety of the 58th army, and almost 6 years ago (how time flies).
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    Post  TR1 on Tue May 20, 2014 12:42 am

    Regular wrote:You can't really call a servicemen who gave their oath a merc. You would be surprised that most of chechens actualy prefer to live in federation. They have their own control of their country like no Soviet Republic had. They like stability, federal funds and they like to have their say in a country. Their culture is entangled with russian. They like watching russian tv, listening russian music and russian is their second tongue. Clan mentality is becoming thing of the past and mafia are becoming buisnessmen. Now Ukraine looks much worse than Chechnya

    I think the differences that remain are a lot more than you think.
    Clan (family really) mentality is still very strong, as is "non-Russian" sense of identity.

    Kadyrov has made the place stable, but honestly, how far can Chechnya go with such a leader....
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    Post  TR1 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:52 am

    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/04/25/kadyrov/

    uh oh. This Dadaev operation has gotten messy.
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    Post  sepheronx on Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:16 am

    TR1 wrote:http://lenta.ru/news/2015/04/25/kadyrov/

    uh oh. This Dadaev operation has gotten messy.

    I highly doubt we will hear of anything regarding this in near future. Kadyrov, in order to keep his tyrannical position, has to pretend to be offended or something just to make his loyal subjects happy. Outside of that, he probably knows why such an event occured. Some are clearly were trying to hide Dadaev (My speculation). Regardless, glad the fool has been dealt with. As for Kadyrov, he will probably be given more special permissions on things to keep him happy.
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    Post  Vann7 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:31 am

    is this real?  Kadyrov already in Rebelion against Moscow.. ordering shoot to kill
    any FSB security? who enters in Chechenia for any operation without first consulting with him?

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/chechen-president-ramzan-kadyrov-gives-shoot-to-kill-order-on-outside-forces-1429812489


    Oh wow.. if this is true.. it means big troubles for The Kremlin..  The Russian Government
    will be now in a very dangerous position that if they just retreat and give super special status
    to Chechenia so much that Russia cannot enter in its own territory without permission ,thats
    ridiculous..  If that happens in USA.. that a governor give order to shoot to kill ,any Federal
    government agent.. he will be in serious trouble with law and be arrested .   Shocked

    All western media are making a field day about this.. They are now claiming Chechenia
    demands Independence. etc etc etc..   albeit no idea what kind of independence a virtually land locked region could have.. if Moscow give it to them..  Contrary to most belief independence
    is not always possible if a nation geographical location have many geographical limitations..
    wondering what now the west will say..  Now independence will be seen as a good thing for them.. if chechenia ask for it.. but if cities in Ukraine ask for independence .. then hell no.. thats an international laws violation.  Rolling Eyes

    I really can't wait to see how Putin manage this.. Kadyrov seems out of control.. and in full
    rebellion.. what he told is a major threat to Russia nation security.. asking his police to kill any Russian Government special police..and if that is not corrected.. it will only get much worse.. ie.. that kadirov betrays the kremlin and start a Third Chechenia war..for its independence.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/chechen-president-ramzan-kadyrov-gives-shoot-to-kill-order-on-outside-forces-1429812489

    The face of Islam always shows ..asking for troubles.. As i said it before.. Islam is a time bomb
    looking to explode at any time.. and very easy to exploit and turn one side against another.
    Kadyrov apparently have told he will be ready to resign.. if asked by Putin.. so what putin will do?  I think that unless Kadyrov retreat his last statements and apologize..at the very least ,his career in politics is over..  You cannot have Governors of region of Russia ordering to shoot
    to kill at anyone who dares to enter in chechenia without his permission.  

    This truly deserve an update.. and how this develop.  Shocked

    Good thing for Russia however is that Chechenia as an independent nation have no chance to ever become a country.. because is encircle by other Russian Federation regions..and in the south have a Giant barrier of mountains with Georgia.. the only way out is by air .. But Any commercial or civilian airline will not be able to land in Chechenia if the kremling declare a no fly zone over there.. Chechenia without access to sea is a lost cause and without Russia help is a lost cause..
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    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:58 am

    Vann7 wrote:is this real?  Kadyrov already in Rebelion against Moscow.. ordering shoot to kill
    any FSB security? who enters in Chechenia for any operation without first consulting with him?

    Vann,

    Do you have any source for this story? Not the WSJ.

    Edit: Just noticed RT has it too. Here is the RT story: http://rt.com/politics/252905-kadyrov-interior-ministry-chechnya/
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    Post  sepheronx on Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:41 pm

    http://tass.ru/en/russia/791771

    So there will be an investigation done on the matter. I imagine nothing will come of it. Kadyrov will get his wee wee slapped for what he said, but as long as they prove that Stravopol police did indeed give info to Chechen interior ministry earlier, then they (chechens) will have to comply. But in the states, a state police officer from another cannot simply go into another state and just arrest or shoot whomever, they actually have to go through the other states police. So in this case, they do have a right to complain about it. I imagine nothing will come of this other than someone saying this is bad and there needs to be more communication and may move towards a more integrated communications system. Kadyrov is talking too much of course, but he is going to try to create damage control for his own folks in Chechnya. Outside of that, he knows that he cannot rebel against Moscow as it will do him no good and he knows that. After he would be left to his own devices, he would probably be thrown out real quick.
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    Post  max steel on Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:38 pm

    In a new documentary Putin tells how US secret services were caught redhanded aiding Caucasian hitmen in their terror in Russia in an attempt to break up Russia. This is nothing new for me, it has been clear all the time, just by reading Anglo-Saxon newspapers, and Putin himself told it already after Beslan terrorist attacks. - He also told that various Western leaders came to see him in Moscow before last presidential elections in 2012 to tell him in his face that they will never allow him to be president of Russia again. - Now as those attempts failed, they have proceeded with the ultimate Plan B - war.



    http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/putin-accuses-u-s-of-supporting-separatists-in-russia-s-north-caucasus-1.2345309
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    Post  sepheronx on Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:59 pm

    max steel wrote:In a new documentary Putin tells how US secret services were caught redhanded aiding Caucasian hitmen in their terror in Russia in an attempt to break up Russia. This is nothing new for me, it has been clear all the time, just by reading Anglo-Saxon newspapers, and Putin himself told it already after Beslan terrorist attacks. - He also told that various Western leaders came to see him in Moscow before last presidential elections in 2012 to tell him in his face that they will never allow him to be president of Russia again. - Now as those attempts failed, they have proceeded with the ultimate Plan B - war.



    http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/putin-accuses-u-s-of-supporting-separatists-in-russia-s-north-caucasus-1.2345309

    It wont be outright war but attempt to completely isolate Russia with a potential of breaking the NC areas from Russia, so trying to take Chechnya, daegestan and Ingushetia away but thay wont happen as they are pretty entrenched. Add to that, since they didnt get their way, they have tried other methods like supporting foreign losers whom causes more harm than good to their own people. And the west wonders why they are hated and why Putin is popular.... At this point in time, the only other parties with support from domestic population, who even have a shread of a chance, are even more anti west than Putin: Fair Russia party, Just Russia party and Communist Party. The rest, the ones funded by west, have roughly 1% or less popularity. Even if and when Putin cannot rule anymore, it will end up being someone like him or someone even smarter like Lavrov or such.

    From my understandings, the nationalists (no, not the Nazi type) have a lot of power and popularity, and thry have their own large NGO organization of mostly ex army, ex FSB and intelligence. They will make sure whomever they want in power eill get in. This can be real bad of course.

    But mind you, even fools who ran to the west like Yeltsin tried to keep Chechnya by force and sent VDV to Serbia, which really angered west. So I imagine even the 5th coloumnists would end up doing the same if they got into power and are just using the US to try to get their.

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