Scottish Indepedence

kvs wrote:Are the Scottish elites really this independent of the English ones?   I don't want to stick my nose into the UK's internal business,
unlike the UK itself, which is obsessed with hating on and meddling in Russia.   I am sure the clowns in London will try to claim that
the Scottish moves are facilitated by Putin's meddling.

Also, from what I could tell, there was a lot of fraud during the last referendum to keep Scotland on the plantation.

 

Scottish courts and Scottish law has always been separate from the rest of the UK, if London tried to change Scots law the UK no longer exists

the Scottish Elite are mostly in cahoots with London all of the media in Scotland is either English owned or owned by a Aussie called Rupert Murdoch .... they are panic stricken as is London ... Scotland has vast reserves of untapped oil and gas off our entire western maritime boundary and much of the waters around the west coast of Scotland are no deeper than a 1,000 metres much of it is much shallower ... the Scottish elite are desperate for a split in the SNP (which will never happen) to stop the SNP winning a forecasted landslide on May the 6th thus leading to Indyref2 and a end of the UK before November 2021

An independent Scotland would hardly need HATOs protection... who from?

They should happily leave HATO, it is the EU that you need in terms of trade and good relations for reasonable future prospects...

I still think it is going to seriously damage all countries involved and I am not sure that newly elected officials will live up to expectations... you might get rid of the Yeltsens and Stalins in London only to find the local politicians are useless too.

Still it appears Europeans don't know how to tolerate different opinions and views and cannot accept alternative choices...

You would think that by now they had realised there was something not right and that more attention and real effort was needed to deal with it... looks like giving lip service to the problems and hope they don't come back before your term in power ends is the order of the day...

I want Scotland to gain its independence, mainly so that the rump of the UK, EWNI, start acting in the World as what we are, a second rate power.

However, Westminster seems to be doing a pretty good job against it with the actions of its puppet, wee Nicola. She is currently bringing the governance of the Scottish Parliament by the SNP into question with a clear demonstration of how, after over 10 years in power, the politicians have been able to bring the Civil Service, Crown Prosecutors and Courts to heel, Stalin would have been proud.

Given that it is all being exposed in a Parliamentary Inquiry under 8 weeks from an election no-one now has any idea how that election will pan out. In particular, will the realisation hit the electorate that the Scottish Parliament is just as corrupt as the Westminster one so what's the point of huge upheaval when in reality very little will change in the lives of the majority of the population?

In fact much would have to change as the Scotland changes to be more like Norway. Great you say but the job mix will be very different. Gone will be the 10s of thousands of clerical jobs subcontracted out by England, those jobs don't exist in Norway. In will come lots of more highly skilled Civil Service jobs, many of which will be taken by those affected by the shrinking finance industry or even by already skilled Scots returning home. This will not be a bed of roses. Norway survives in part because it is a high tax country.

As to oil, its not the last century anymore! There may indeed be oil and gas under the Atlantic west of the Western Isles but who is going to go out there into those wild seas to find it, and lay the undersea infrastructure? The major oil companies are either borrowing money to pay their dividends or moving 'green' as fast as they can. If they walked away from the prospect before when there was loads of capital around for investment why, when they have none would they put money in now? That only leaves the Scottish Government as a source of finance and it won't have any spare cash either. This is not in anyway to be compared to the start of North Sea oil.

As to defence, well Scotland isn't Norway, it doesn't have a border with Russia or have its waters astride a major route for RuN submarines. Instead it needs to replicate Iceland on a bigger scale, fishery protection aircraft and ships. Mind you if it joined the EU it wouldn't need many of those either as the fish would be the EU's.

Interesting times.

GarryB wrote:An independent Scotland would hardly need HATOs protection... who from?

They should happily leave HATO, it is the EU that you need in terms of trade and good relations for reasonable future prospects...

I still think it is going to seriously damage all countries involved and I am not sure that newly elected officials will live up to expectations... you might get rid of the Yeltsens and Stalins in London only to find the local politicians are useless too.

Still it appears Europeans don't know how to tolerate different opinions and views and cannot accept alternative choices...

You would think that by now they had realised there was something not right and that more attention and real effort was needed to deal with it... looks like giving lip service to the problems and hope they don't come back before your term in power ends is the order of the day...

the issue is we would get the government we voted for every time ... Scotland has not Voted for the Tory party since 1955 so most of my life (51 years) Scotland has had to endure a government we never voted for , we know the first 5 years will not be plain sailing it's not plain sailing just now either .... the way the UK is set up the other 3 countries suffer a lack of Democracy as the people of England decide which government we get

JohninMK wrote:I want Scotland to gain its independence, mainly so that the rump of the UK, EWNI, start acting in the World as what we are, a second rate power.

However, Westminster seems to be doing a pretty good job against it with the actions of its puppet, wee Nicola. She is currently bringing the governance of the Scottish Parliament by the SNP into question with a clear demonstration of how, after over 10 years in power, the politicians have been able to bring the Civil Service, Crown Prosecutors and Courts to heel, Stalin would have been proud.

Given that it is all being exposed in a Parliamentary Inquiry under 8 weeks from an election no-one now has any idea how that election will pan out. In particular, will the realisation hit the electorate that the Scottish Parliament is just as corrupt as the Westminster one so what's the point of huge upheaval when in reality very little will change in the lives of the majority of the population?

In fact much would have to change as the Scotland changes to be more like Norway. Great you say but the job mix will be very different. Gone will be the 10s of thousands of clerical jobs subcontracted out by England, those jobs don't exist in Norway. In will come lots of more highly skilled Civil Service jobs, many of which will be taken by those affected by the shrinking finance industry or even by already skilled Scots returning home. This will not be a bed of roses. Norway survives in part because it is a high tax country.

As to oil, its not the last century anymore! There may indeed be oil and gas under the Atlantic west of the Western Isles but who is going to go out there into those wild seas to find it, and lay the undersea infrastructure? The major oil companies are either borrowing money to pay their dividends or moving 'green' as fast as they can. If they walked away from the prospect before when there was loads of capital around for investment why, when they have none would they put money in now? That only leaves the Scottish Government as a source of finance and it won't have any spare cash either. This is not in anyway to be compared to the start of North Sea oil.

As to defence, well Scotland isn't Norway, it doesn't have a border with Russia or have its waters astride a major route for RuN submarines. Instead it needs to replicate Iceland on a bigger scale, fishery protection aircraft and ships. Mind you if it joined the EU it wouldn't need many of those either as the fish would be the EU's.

Interesting times.

first things first no political leader has went through the levels of Scrutiny Nicola Sturgeon has went through a 8 and a half hour grilling by members of parliament with no proof of wrong doing, their was no corruption etc involved yet the Tories and the 2 other unionists parties were playing party politics .. she answered every single question asked from a hostile committee who are desperate to stop Nicola Sturgeon and Independence ... their is no proof of she lied to Holyrood compare and contrast with Westminster where both Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock have been found guilty of lying to Westminster why no scrutiny of those two and no calls for them to resign because we all know Westminster is one of the most vile and corrupt seats of power in the West with no scrutiny £13 billion in PPE contracts to family , friends of ministers and Tory Party Donors with zero experience of making PPE and to date the English Track and Trace has spent £22 billion on it's calamitous track and trace and the budget has approved a further £15 billion headed by dido Harding and her boss is her Husband ... the corruption in England is mind blowing ... i can go on for hours about it in regards to cover ups and the banning of reporting on it. Holyrood may not be perfect but it's damn more transparent than Westminster for 5 years in Scotland the Tories have refused to answer questions on Dark money transferred from Loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland during Ruth Davidson's leadership

we know we will have to build a robust Navy considering the maritime boundaries we have within the UK ... no Royal navy surface vessel is based in Scotland and it's protected by 4 Eurofighters based in Lossiemouth ... the plans in 2014 was to build 4 frigates (Type 26) a LHD and other vessels most likely Corvettes or OPVs .... 20,000 Strong Army and 4,000 reserves and 17 to 20 Eurofighters (that will have to change), transport planes, trainers etc that was in the white paper and the Scottish Armed Forces would be modeled on Japan's Self Defence force ie no over seas adventures accept for UN missions

Hypocrisy and double standards get under my skin. The British MSM is clearly a regime mouthpiece since it never focuses on
such BS. Of course, the British MSM has learned a lot of finesse, but it can still be seen for what it is.

If Scotland manages by some miracle to secede I hope it will not be murdered economically. The EU is run by Washington
and London aligned clowns.

Godric wrote:
first things first no political leader has went through the levels of Scrutiny Nicola Sturgeon has went through a 8  and a half hour grilling by members of parliament with no proof of wrong doing, their was no corruption etc involved yet the Tories and the 2 other unionists parties were playing party politics .. she answered every single question asked from  a hostile committee who are desperate to stop Nicola Sturgeon and Independence ... their is no proof of she lied to Holyrood

we know we will have to build a robust Navy considering the maritime boundaries we have within the UK ... no Royal navy surface vessel is based in Scotland and it's protected by 4 Eurofighters based in Lossiemouth ... the plans in 2014 was to build 4 frigates (Type 26) a LHD and other vessels most likely Corvettes or OPVs .... 20,000 Strong Army and 4,000 reserves and 17 to 20 Eurofighters (that will have to change), transport planes, trainers etc that was in the white paper and the Scottish Armed Forces would be modeled on Japan's Self Defence force ie no over seas adventures accept for UN missions

First you are missing the point, perhaps deliberately. Sturgeon is not defending herself against Westminster or really her opposition. She is defending herself against accusations from someone you don't mention, Alex Salmond, a fundamentally important Scottish figure within both her Party and Scottish Independence. He also withstood nearly as many hours questioning, I watched them all. Of the two of the he was by far the most impressive, really on top of his brief. Sturgeon on the other hand gave a world class demonstration of a politician so slippery that she would give a greased eel a run for its money.

At its core, it is quite clear that the current leadership of the SNP blew away around a £1M of taxpayer money in a failed attempt to disbar Salmond from a future role in Scotland. To blame this on London is to attempt to sweep under the carpet the problems arising from the corruption at Holyrood that almost naturally arises from the abuse of long periods in power. As per the Scottish Labour Party in Glasgow or periods of either the Tories or Labour at Westminster etc around the world.

Got you, a Navy based on that of a country directly facing two superpowers, with an outstanding dispute with one of them, one of the largest US bases in the World on its territory, a highly developed technological economy making its own aircraft etc., one of the largest fishing fleets, rich beyond Scotland's wildest dreams and a population roughly 15 times larger. Dream on.

You'll be lucky to be able to afford to run the fighter squadron and 4 over sea patrol aircraft (you can have most of our P-8 as part of the settlement, we won't need them) currently at or going to be at Lossie.

kvs wrote:Hypocrisy and double standards get under my skin.   The British MSM is clearly a regime mouthpiece since it never focuses on
such BS.   Of course, the British MSM has learned a lot of finesse, but it can still be seen for what it is.

If Scotland manages by some miracle to secede I hope it will not be murdered economically.   The EU is run by Washington
and London aligned clowns.  

Western EU countries are distancing themselves from Washington .... hence they have blocked any involvement of US defense companies in future weapons developments .... it's the eastern Europeans who are the American's lapdogs ... they have yet to face the reality with their love in with America and just now it's about big bad Russia ... a lot of those eastern European companies have Chinese investment just wait till the Americans start interfering in that

the bulk of our exports leave from English ports and airports as all the big profitable routes were given to the London airports i am sure China wouldn't mind switching some routes from Heathrow and Gatwick to continue receiving Scottish Salmon, Whisky and other products they desire from Scotland ... do you know Scotland is one of the few countries with a trade surplus with China ... we have a trade surplus with almost every country we trade with apart from the rest of the UK .... China is addicted to our crude oil (Brent) and as i've said before we can easily transfer via pipelines our excess Gas and electricity to Netherland's, Belgium, France or Germany via the north sea which is very shallow waters if England decides it wants nothing to do with a Independent Scotland .... we don't need to go through rUKs waters we can do it via Denmark's and the Netherlands waters ... you are talking about 400 - 500 kilometres of pipeline max.

most likely military wise we will be neutral with a possible alliance with Ireland ... both Both Denmark and Finland wants Scotland to join the Nordic council as parts of Scotland were once part of Norway

JohninMK wrote:

First you are missing the point, perhaps deliberately. Sturgeon is not defending herself against Westminster or really her opposition. She is defending herself against accusations from someone you don't mention, Alex Salmond, a fundamentally important Scottish figure within both her Party and Scottish Independence. He also withstood nearly as many hours questioning, I watched them all. Of the two of the he was by far the most impressive, really on top of his brief. Sturgeon on the other hand gave a world class demonstration of a politician so slippery that she would give a greased eel a run for its money.

At its core, it is quite clear that the current leadership of the SNP blew away around a £1M of taxpayer money in a failed attempt to disbar Salmond from a future role in Scotland. To blame this on London is to attempt to sweep under the carpet the problems arising from the corruption at Holyrood that almost naturally arises from the abuse of long periods in power. As per the Scottish Labour Party in Glasgow or periods of either the Tories or Labour at Westminster etc around the world.

Got you, a Navy based on that of a country directly facing two superpowers, with an outstanding dispute with one of them, one of the largest US bases in the World on its territory, a highly developed technological economy making its own aircraft etc., one of the largest fishing fleets, rich beyond Scotland's wildest dreams and a population roughly 15 times larger. Dream on.

You'll be lucky to be able to afford to run the fighter squadron and 4 over sea patrol aircraft (you can have most of our P-8 as part of the settlement, we won't need them) currently at or going to be at Lossie.

you do realise the case was brought about not by Nicola Sturgeon but top London appointed Civilian servant in Scotland Lesley Evans in Holyrood and answers to the Scottish first minister and it was two of her staff at the centre of the Scandal ... Nicola Sturgeon had no alternative to bring forward the case or she would be accused of defending her mentor .... as for Alex Salmond he never gave a shred of evidence to his claims ... their is no doubt he is one of the most talented politicians in the whole UK this past 50 years as no unionist politician could lay a glove on him at Westminster that is fact, the 2nd case the top law lord demanded a 2nd case go ahead but the lawyers advised her no ... had she said no we will leave at that she would be facing the exact same grilling she got on Wednesday ... the people who will judge Nicola Sturgeon on May the 6th will be the Scottish public and not some unionist drivel most of whom were elected via a 2ndary list vote and not via the constituency vote. Patrick Harvey of the Scottish Greens said it was a witch hunt by unionist parties desperate to stop the break up of the UK.

in 3 days SNP got more new members to the party than the membership of the Tories and Labour combined in Scotland

America has no base in Scotland ... i couldn't give a flying f*ck about America ... if England does go down that route enjoy regular power cuts and massive heating problems in the winter as we supply 75% of your gas and 10% and rising of your electricity ... we have other markets right on our doorstep

O'bama, Biden and Clinton (Hilary) tried to interfere in Scots law and they were told to mind there own effing business

Godric wrote:
Western EU countries are distancing themselves from Washington .... hence they have blocked any involvement of US defense companies in future weapons developments  .... it's the eastern Europeans who are the American's lapdogs ... they have yet to face the reality with their love in with America and just now it's about big bad Russia ... a lot of those eastern European companies have Chinese investment just wait till the Americans start interfering in that

the bulk of our exports leave from English ports and airports as all the big profitable routes were given to the London airports i am sure China wouldn't mind switching  some routes from Heathrow and Gatwick to continue receiving Scottish Salmon, Whisky and other products they desire from Scotland ... do you know Scotland is one of the few countries with a trade surplus with China ... we have a trade surplus with almost every country we trade with apart from the rest of the UK .... China is addicted to our crude oil (Brent) and as i've said before we can easily transfer via pipelines our excess Gas and electricity to Netherland's, Belgium, France or Germany via the north sea which is very shallow waters if England decides it wants nothing to do with a Independent Scotland .... we don't need to go through rUKs waters we can do it via Denmark's and the Netherlands waters ... you are talking about 400 - 500 kilometres of pipeline max.

most likely military wise we will be neutral with a possible alliance with Ireland  ... both Both Denmark and Finland wants Scotland to join the Nordic council as parts of Scotland were once part of Norway

No routes were 'given' to 'London' airports, the routes are there due to customer demand. Passengers want to go there, not Glasgow. As I have said before, a large amount of your salmon exports go in the holds of passenger aircraft and if that's London and its the cheapest way why would that change after Independence? Same with the bulk exports like whisky where Felixstowe beckons as the cheapest route out of the British Isles. Your idealism flies in the face of commercial logic.

Can you quote a figure for China's oil purchase from the NS? If any electricity goes across the NS I suspect it will come from Iceland, not Scotland. As to gas, why would anyone spend serious money running a new pipeline across the ND when there is a new NordStream 2 to fill with much cheaper gas?

If your views are typical then I think there are going to be some very disappointed people after Independence.

JohninMK wrote:

No routes were 'given' to 'London' airports, the routes are there due to customer demand. Passengers want to go there, not Glasgow. As I have said before, a large amount of your salmon exports go in the holds of passenger aircraft and if that's London and its the cheapest way why would that change after Independence? Same with the bulk exports like whisky where Felixstowe beckons as the cheapest route out of the British Isles. Your idealism flies in the face of commercial logic.

Can you quote a figure for China's oil purchase from the NS? If any electricity goes across the NS I suspect it will come from Iceland, not Scotland. As to gas, why would anyone spend serious money running a new pipeline across the ND when there is a new NordStream 2 to fill with much cheaper gas?

If your views are typical then I think there are going to be some very disappointed people after Independence.

i am talking about cargo routes Heathrow's two biggest customers is Scottish Salmon and Scot's Whisky ... the routes were decided by London Heathrow and Gatwick demand the routes over Prestwick airport Europe's ONLY all weather airport and which is a cargo hub we have several sites that can easily be converted into Cargo hubs we have several deep ports that can easily be converted instead of flying our shellfish to the continent from London we will do it direct from Scotland and actually most of our cargo from heathrow  is delivered by easy jet cargo planes we have zero control over our economy and where it's exported from and Scots have to fly via England to places like China, Dubai and Japan as Heathrow and Gatwick got all the profitable routes


https://www.iscot.scot/article/politics/the-great-prestwick-airport-robbery/

Nordstream 2 does not supply all Germany's needs they will still be receiving gas from through Ukraine but just not as much and as from Iceland you are having a laugh ... i'm not even gonna go their it's so laughable, and i think you'll find Scottish gas prices will be roughly the same price as Russia just that we won't be competing with Russia as most of the gas will go to France and the Benelux countries

i think you'll find England is in for a big shock with all the lies of Scotland being subsidised if that is the case why the desperation to keep us within the UK all the lies and dirty tricks

Godric wrote:
i am talking about cargo routes Heathrow's two biggest customers is Scottish Salmon and Scot's Whisky ... the routes were decided by London Heathrow and Gatwick demand the routes over Prestwick airport Europe's ONLY all weather airport and which is a cargo hub we have several sites that can easily be converted into Cargo hubs we have several deep ports that can easily be converted instead of flying our shellfish to the continent from London we will do it direct from Scotland and actually most of our cargo from heathrow  is delivered by easy jet cargo planes we have zero control over our economy and where it's exported from and Scots have to fly via England to places like China, Dubai and Japan as Heathrow and Gatwick got all the profitable routes

Nordstream 2 does not supply all Germany's needs they will still be receiving gas from through Ukraine but just not as much and as from Iceland you are having a laugh ... i'm not even gonna go their it's so laughable, and i think you'll find Scottish gas prices will be roughly the same price as Russia just that we won't be competing with Russia as most of the gas will go to France and the Benelux countries

If Scotland were richer you would buy more from China causing more aircraft to fly in that could be loaded to fly out. If it can to to Europe by refrigerated truck it will, not by plane. Much cheaper.

NordStream 2 is not yet completed. NordStream 1 is pretty much supplying Germany and Northern Europe's need that are not met by Norway or LNG. NordStream 2 will double that and allow all Ukraine piped gas to go to central and southern EU, until that ends in I think 4 years.

If you think that NSea out of the sea gas is the same cost as Russian out of the ground gas, I have a bridge to sell you.

Anyway, over and out.

JohninMK wrote:

Godric wrote:
i am talking about cargo routes Heathrow's two biggest customers is Scottish Salmon and Scot's Whisky ... the routes were decided by London Heathrow and Gatwick demand the routes over Prestwick airport Europe's ONLY all weather airport and which is a cargo hub we have several sites that can easily be converted into Cargo hubs we have several deep ports that can easily be converted instead of flying our shellfish to the continent from London we will do it direct from Scotland and actually most of our cargo from heathrow  is delivered by easy jet cargo planes we have zero control over our economy and where it's exported from and Scots have to fly via England to places like China, Dubai and Japan as Heathrow and Gatwick got all the profitable routes

Nordstream 2 does not supply all Germany's needs they will still be receiving gas from through Ukraine but just not as much and as from Iceland you are having a laugh ... i'm not even gonna go their it's so laughable, and i think you'll find Scottish gas prices will be roughly the same price as Russia just that we won't be competing with Russia as most of the gas will go to France and the Benelux countries

If Scotland were richer you would buy more from China causing more aircraft to fly in that could be loaded to fly out. If it can to to Europe by refrigerated truck it will, not by plane. Much cheaper.

NordStream 2 is not yet completed. NordStream 1 is pretty much supplying Germany and Northern Europe's need that are not met by Norway or LNG. NordStream 2 will double that and allow all Ukraine piped gas to go to central and southern EU, until that ends in I think 4 years.

If you think that NSea out of the sea gas is the same cost as Russian out of the ground gas, I have a bridge to sell you.

Anyway, over and out.

https://www.ft.com/content/fff67a62-88fa-11e3-bb5f-00144feab7de

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/opinion/readers-letters/1023268/readers-letters-scotlands-daily-oil-output-is-worth-350m-but-this-figure-is-never-publicised/

Scotland's oil in 2019 was worth £250 million short of £128 billion to the UK (London) economy that's the desperation behind UK's attempts at forcing Scotland to remain in the UK .... with Brent crude now at over $80 a barrel that's $20 more higher than it was in 2019

Well the SNP and Scottish Greens have won another mandate for a 2nd Independence vote and even the Tories admitted they can't block it ... this time next year Scotland will be vting for Independence and driving a massive sledgehammer through NATO .... at the same time the rUK will have to remove their nukes from Faslane and i doubt the rUK can afford to replace Trident with them losing £4 billion a year towards defence spending and NATO will lose large swathes of control of the North Atlantic as Scotland has 62% of the UK's maritime waters as well as no more practice grounds for live fire training of their navies ho ho ... i reckon America will try their freedom of navigation pish on Scotland only angering us even more in the process