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    Scottish Indepedence

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    JohninMK

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:00 pm

    Great thought but that will hardly have the Israelis quaking in their boots and planning a change in strategy.
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    Godric

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  Godric on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:14 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Great thought but that will hardly have the Israelis quaking in their boots and planning a change in strategy.

    it sets a precedence .... Israel does not take kindly to being criticised .... it will hurt more because Scotland is the only country not to have persecuted Jews in Europe ... Scotland has been a sanctuary for Jews throughout the centuries

    in Scotland standing up to their illegal settlements hopefully other countries in the EU and beyond follow suit
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:18 pm

    Godric wrote:Israel will face sanctions from Scotland when we leave the UK and we won't be kow towed by America to drop them

    Sure lol!
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    Godric

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  Godric on Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:40 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Godric wrote:Israel will face sanctions from Scotland when we leave the UK and we won't be kow towed by America to drop them

    Sure lol!

    remind us how it went with Scotland telling the US to mind their own business in regards to the so called Lockerbie bomber abdelbaset al megrahi convicted on the grounds of evidence provided by 2 paid CIA informants (unknown at the time) when we announced we were releasing him .... we don't answer to America and the SNP government has heavily criticised the Israelis government and stated they would put sanctions on them

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:33 am

    Such a shame that your dream may never be realised. But then at least the impotence of a probably poor and small country will not be exposed.
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    Godric

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  Godric on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:49 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Such a shame that your dream may never be realised. But then at least the impotence of a probably poor and small country will not be exposed.

    seriously you haven't a clue John ... if threats and bullying is the UK establishment is the only tools left to keep the UK "United" then it is obvious that union is finished ... i think you will find the rest of the UK will lose way more For example its seat in the permanent council of the UN as you will no longer be the UK, over £65 billion exports to Scotland all Scotland's exports will leave from Scottish ports and airports 10s of thousands of oil and gas jobs in England back to Scotland you have very little oil and Gas and the maritime borders will have to be redrawn back to 1999 when the westminster redrew Scottish maritime borders without the consent of Scotland and UNCLOS when the rUK grabbed 6,000 square miles of Scotland's maritime waters ... we have vast amounts of oil and gas reserves worth trillions in even todays prices, we have large deposits of gold untapped over 200 tonnes in one site alone nr Loch Lomond ... i think you will find we will do just fine

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:07 pm

    Godric wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:Such a shame that your dream may never be realised. But then at least the impotence of a probably poor and small country will not be exposed.

    seriously you haven't a clue John ... if threats and bullying is the UK establishment is the only tools left to keep the UK "United" then it is obvious that union is finished ... i think you will find the rest of the UK will lose way more  For example its seat in the permanent council of the UN as you will no longer be the UK, over £65 billion exports to Scotland all Scotland's exports will leave from Scottish ports and airports 10s of thousands of oil and gas jobs in England back to Scotland you have very little oil and Gas and the maritime borders will have to be redrawn back to 1999 when the westminster redrew Scottish maritime borders without the consent of Scotland and UNCLOS when the rUK grabbed 6,000 square miles of Scotland's maritime waters ... we have vast amounts of oil and gas reserves worth trillions in even todays prices, we have large deposits of gold untapped over 200 tonnes in one site alone nr Loch Lomond ... i think you will find we will do just fine
    As I have said, I love your optimism and hope. I wish you God speed and, from the perspective of serf in middle England I hope it all happens and we lose both Scotland and the seat on the UNSC. But, I am not sure:

    - that anyone other than a few in Scotland will be aware that they are being "bullied", it will be part of an honest, open and factual discussion of the financial implications of independence

    - what we export that is worth £65B to Scotland and if we do where the alternative economic supply is for you as Scots will still want their Range Rovers, Astras, Nissans etc. Just as we will still want you whiskey etc

    - if it was economic then Scotland's exports would already be going from Scotland's ports/airports. As I have said before, even most of your salmon goes via Heathrow as cargo in planes leaving from there. Those planes will never go to their destinations from Scotland

    - there are no longer 10s of thousands of jobs in oil. With oil under $50 new undersea fields are no longer viable and exploration in them around the world has virtually stopped

    - as the last point, ownership of the seabed is now irrelevant. But you are welcome to it as restitution costs are going to be serious

    - good luck with the gold.
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    franco

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  franco on Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:57 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Such a shame that your dream may never be realised. But then at least the impotence of a probably poor and small country will not be exposed.

    Troll much Very Happy
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    Godric

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  Godric on Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:47 pm

    The Scottish First Minister has just announced she will be starting the process for a 2nd Scottish Independence referendum the UK is in a spin with support for Independence at 50% without even campaigning with the Scottish Greens the Yes movement has the majority in Holyrood again .... bring it f**king on

    http://news.sky.com/story/sturgeon-seeks-second-scottish-independence-referendum-10800578

    stick yer trident up the Thames
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    GarryB

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:12 am

    Can I ask Godric, how has this evolved...

    Scotland is sick of being dictated to by London, but will leave the Britian to be dictated to by Brussels.

    I just find it odd.

    I mean I can semi understand it in the sense that we here in New Zealand wanted independence from London, but wanted to remain part of the british commonwealth... but that was mostly economic and really has no real meaning now as the EU dictates trade to us now.

    For instance France murders a photographer in New Zealand and then threatens us that we wont be able to trade within the EU if we don't just shut up and ignore their act of terrorism.

    No help from the UK and silence of course from interpol... I think a lot of New Zealanders started to turn to the US after all that...


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    Godric

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  Godric on Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:Can I ask Godric, how has this evolved...

    Scotland is sick of being dictated to by London, but will leave the Britian to be dictated to by Brussels.

    I just find it odd.

    I mean I can semi understand it in the sense that we here in New Zealand wanted independence from London, but wanted to remain part of the british commonwealth... but that was mostly economic and really has no real meaning now as the EU dictates trade to us now.

    For instance France murders a photographer in New Zealand and then threatens us that we wont be able to trade within the EU if we don't just shut up and ignore their act of terrorism.

    No help from the UK and silence of course from interpol... I think a lot of New Zealanders started to turn to the US after all that...

    Brussels is very different from Westminster/London our parliament has very little control over everything that matters leaving the UK and remaining in the EU will give Holyrood control over almost everything ... only a small percentage of power will be transferred over to Brussels ... you have to understand Scotland's history to understand our connection with Europe ... The Scottish alliance with France is the oldest in history dating back to 1296 AD and is still in operation 720 years later

    and with Scotland leaving the UK it throws a massive spanner in Nato they would lose control of a massive area of the North Atlantic
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    George1

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:38 pm

    Scottish parliament backs new referendum on independence

    More:
    http://tass.com/world/938085


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    flamming_python

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  flamming_python on Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:03 pm

    Godric wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Can I ask Godric, how has this evolved...

    Scotland is sick of being dictated to by London, but will leave the Britian to be dictated to by Brussels.

    I just find it odd.

    I mean I can semi understand it in the sense that we here in New Zealand wanted independence from London, but wanted to remain part of the british commonwealth... but that was mostly economic and really has no real meaning now as the EU dictates trade to us now.

    For instance France murders a photographer in New Zealand and then threatens us that we wont be able to trade within the EU if we don't just shut up and ignore their act of terrorism.

    No help from the UK and silence of course from interpol... I think a lot of New Zealanders started to turn to the US after all that...

    Brussels is very different from Westminster/London our parliament has very little control over everything that matters leaving the UK and remaining in the EU will give Holyrood control over almost everything ... only a small percentage of power will be transferred over to Brussels ... you have to understand Scotland's history to understand our connection with Europe ... The Scottish alliance with France is the oldest in history dating back to 1296 AD and is still in operation 720 years later

    and with Scotland leaving the UK it throws a massive spanner in Nato they would lose control of a massive area of the North Atlantic

    Don't see how being a small fish in a big pond can be any better than being a small fish in a small pond.

    Scotland should just arrive at a compromise with Westminister on their respective differences and let it be. Scotland will never have everything it wants but in the long run it will certainly keep more of what it wants by being part of the UK then by becoming part of the EU and then slowly having more and more of its independence and identity eroded away in favour of a 'European' one and creeping military, political, cultural centralization. And the worst thing is that this will happen slowly and gently enough so that it doesn't build up a crucial amount of dissent and backlash (boiling the frog slowly rather than quickly), and what's more you'll eventually end up wanting all that stuff yourself - it will feel like an 'evolution' of public opinion whereas in fact what is happening is indoctrination under the influence of the media and EU-obsessed political elites.

    There already was a referendum 3 years ago.. and the majority of the Scottish population decided that they want to remain part of the British crown and share in its decisions. That also entails going along with its international decisions; be it wars or be it memberships of this or that economic union. On the EU the British public made a united decision and you can't claim Scotland didn't have its say. If it was a war the government wouldn't have even asked. But people knew all this and voted for staying in the UK anyway.

    JohninMK

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:35 am

    The issue now, even after the vote in Holyrood today, is that there will be no new vote on independence until after the UK has left the EU. It is as simple as that.

    Even if there was the will in the UK Parliament to allow it, which there isn't, there will not be enough Parliamentary time to process it through given all the other work they will have to do surrounding Brexit.

    So Scotland, whether it likes it or not, and there is some debate on the subject, will be out in a couple of years. If it then votes to be independent then it can decide whether to re-apply.
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    Godric

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  Godric on Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:47 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Godric wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Can I ask Godric, how has this evolved...

    Scotland is sick of being dictated to by London, but will leave the Britian to be dictated to by Brussels.

    I just find it odd.

    I mean I can semi understand it in the sense that we here in New Zealand wanted independence from London, but wanted to remain part of the british commonwealth... but that was mostly economic and really has no real meaning now as the EU dictates trade to us now.

    For instance France murders a photographer in New Zealand and then threatens us that we wont be able to trade within the EU if we don't just shut up and ignore their act of terrorism.

    No help from the UK and silence of course from interpol... I think a lot of New Zealanders started to turn to the US after all that...

    Brussels is very different from Westminster/London our parliament has very little control over everything that matters leaving the UK and remaining in the EU will give Holyrood control over almost everything ... only a small percentage of power will be transferred over to Brussels ... you have to understand Scotland's history to understand our connection with Europe ... The Scottish alliance with France is the oldest in history dating back to 1296 AD and is still in operation 720 years later

    and with Scotland leaving the UK it throws a massive spanner in Nato they would lose control of a massive area of the North Atlantic

    Don't see how being a small fish in a big pond can be any better than being a small fish in a small pond.

    Scotland should just arrive at a compromise with Westminister on their respective differences and let it be. Scotland will never have everything it wants but in the long run it will certainly keep more of what it wants by being part of the UK then by becoming part of the EU and then slowly having more and more of its independence and identity eroded away in favour of a 'European' one and creeping military, political, cultural centralization. And the worst thing is that this will happen slowly and gently enough so that it doesn't build up a crucial amount of dissent and backlash (boiling the frog slowly rather than quickly), and what's more you'll eventually end up wanting all that stuff yourself - it will feel like an 'evolution' of public opinion whereas in fact what is happening is indoctrination under the influence of the media and EU-obsessed political elites.

    There already was a referendum 3 years ago.. and the majority of the Scottish population decided that they want to remain part of the British crown and share in its decisions. That also entails going along with its international decisions; be it wars or be it memberships of this or that economic union. On the EU the British public made a united decision and you can't claim Scotland didn't have its say. If it was a war the government wouldn't have even asked. But people knew all this and voted for staying in the UK anyway.

    a lot has changed since then ... and the UK had their chance to deliver the federalism they promised to win that vote .... Scotland might be small but we are bigger than the Netherlands and Belgium combined ... we have vast reserves of oil and gas around our entire maritime waters



    this is our reality within the UK


    we pre date almost every country in Europe Scotland/Alba (Ala-Pa) was founded in 862 AD


    JohninMK wrote:The issue now, even after the vote in Holyrood today, is that there will be no new vote on independence until after the UK has left the EU. It is as simple as that.

    Even if there was the will in the UK Parliament to allow it, which there isn't, there will not be enough Parliamentary time to process it through given all the other work they will have to do surrounding Brexit.

    So Scotland, whether it likes it or not, and there is some debate on the subject, will be out in a couple of years. If it then votes to be independent then it can decide whether to re-apply.

    they can't stop it all SNP needs to do is resign all of their 56 seats and we campaign on the grounds of a simple majority = Independence quite simply win 30 of those 56 seats and declare independence


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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:03 am

    Godric wrote:

    they can't stop it all SNP needs to do is resign all of their 56 seats and we campaign on the grounds of a simple majority = Independence quite simply win 30 of those 56 seats and declare independence
    Its not that simple, Scotland is not a sovereign country, it is part of the UK and only Westminster can legally break the Union. You would have to declare some kind of unilateral declaration of independence.

    Anyway, would the Scottish people accept some kind of 'first past the MSP post, vote on my behalf' deal? Surely they would want their own vote, you know, a referendum?
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    GarryB

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:49 am

    But this is a unique case and the west loves giving independence to unique cases... hahahahaha


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    Godric

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  Godric on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:26 am

    JohninMK wrote:
    Godric wrote:

    they can't stop it all SNP needs to do is resign all of their 56 seats and we campaign on the grounds of a simple majority = Independence quite simply win 30 of those 56 seats and declare independence
    Its not that simple, Scotland is not a sovereign country, it is part of the UK and only Westminster can legally break the Union. You would have to declare some kind of unilateral declaration of independence.

    Anyway, would the Scottish people accept some kind of 'first past the MSP post, vote on my behalf' deal? Surely they would want their own vote, you know, a referendum?


    Theresa May has had her chance

    the gloves will come off after the easter recess

    you now know by Holyrood voting for a new Independence referendum May cannot use our resources like fishing, oil etc as bargaining chips to get a deal with the EU


    the UK is finished
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:39 pm

    Godric wrote:the UK is finished

    The secret is the UK islands off of Scotland, which have no appetite for SNP's, divisive, demi-Maidanut, Eurozone-oriented platform.

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:12 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Godric wrote:the UK is finished

    The secret is the UK islands off of Scotland, which have no appetite for SNP's, divisive, demi-Maidanut, Eurozone-oriented platform.

    Yup, roll on the new Crown Dependency of the Orkney and Shetland Islands.
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    Godric

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  Godric on Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:27 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:
    Godric wrote:the UK is finished

    The secret is the UK islands off of Scotland, which have no appetite for SNP's, divisive, demi-Maidanut, Eurozone-oriented platform.

    Yup, roll on the new Crown Dependency of the Orkney and Shetland Islands.

    you are living in a fantasy

    Shetland's and Orkneys were very pro EU as well all 32 regions ... if anything they have less in common with London

    to keep Scotland in the UK they would have to put troops in every street in Scotland and many will go home to England in body bags
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  KiloGolf on Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:31 pm

    Godric wrote:to keep Scotland in the UK they would have to put troops in every street in Scotland and many will go home to England in body bags

    Freedom lol1
    The reality is that Britain has all the power and resources it needs to keep whatever region, island, city, village or town it pleases in what is now considered as Scotland.
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    Godric

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    Re: Scottish Indepedence

    Post  Godric on Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:11 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Godric wrote:to keep Scotland in the UK they would have to put troops in every street in Scotland and many will go home to England in body bags

    Freedom lol1
    The reality is that Britain has all the power and resources it needs to keep whatever region, island, city, village or town it pleases in what is now considered as Scotland.

    the UK has no power

    England is dependent on our oil the whole subsidy junky is a myth to keep Scotland within the UK

    and in Brexit England is going to be way weaker ... no one wants to make trade deals with the UK because EU is a much larger market

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rp2XS1nbvA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VOuSN2j5iU

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