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    Scottish Indepedence

    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:08 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:Sorry but people who want to liberate themselves from slavery are not nationalists necessarily and there is no nationalist insurgence in Scotland and I say this despite being nationalist  myself.
    They are simply Scots who do the ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL for their nation.
    Those who don't vote for freedom are fucking degenerate subs.

    Okay... but for me, nationalism is a good thing. And I say that there is a nationalist movement, nothing about insurgence. There is no violence in the movement.

    Or may be, did I misunderstand the concept of nationalism and insurgence ?
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:27 pm

    There is no insurgence in Scotland and in principle nationalism is against internal insurgences (rebellions) because loyalty to the rules of the state is essential for the nationalists.
    For example Svoboda's open rebellion against the elected Ukrainian president is not an act of a nationalist movement. I don't know what they claim they are but this is not adequate to the principles. Fighting against your own people is forbidden:


    Ὦ ξεῖν', ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ὅτι τῇδε
    κείμεθα, τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.

    Ō ksein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti tēide
    keimetha, tois keinōn rhēmasi peithomenoi.

    "Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
    That here, obedient to Spartan law, we lie."
    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:43 pm

    Not really, nationalism requires the loyal to the nation, and after all, "nation" (民族) is different from "state" (國家) or "goverment" (政權).

    And I do not think it is accurate to describe the Scots patriots as "rebel". The independence movement in Scotland is very peaceful and has no violence.
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:54 pm

    Not really, nationalism requires the loyal to the nation, and after all, "nation" (民族) is different from "state" (國家) or "goverment" (政權).

    Indeed. This is a little subtle.


    And I do not think it is accurate to describe the Scots patriots as "rebel". The independence movement in Scotland is very peaceful and has no violence.

    I said Scotland's case is perfectly clear, no doubt about that. I was not referring to pro-independents as rebels. To the contrary, I don't even classify them as nationalists.
    Indeed the term patriots should be the best one.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:43 pm

    Scotland votes 'No' to split from UK in independence referendum
    Scots have voted to stay in the UK, following an intense campaign which saw both pro-independence and pro-union campaign groups scraping for last-minute support. The ‘No’ campaign rallied 55 percent of votes against 45 percent ‘Yes’ votes.

    One of the leaders of Scotland's independence campaign effectively conceded defeat early on Friday morning as the counting was continuing.

    "Like thousands of others across the country, I've put my heart and soul into this campaign and there is a real sense of disappointment that we've fallen narrowly short of securing a ‘yes’ vote," Nicola Sturgeon, deputy leader of the Scottish National Party, told BBC Television.
    http://rt.com/uk/188736-scotland-vote-stay-union/
    Uggh, how disappointing. No
    Werewolf
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    Post  Werewolf on Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:51 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    Scotland votes 'No' to split from UK in independence referendum
    Scots have voted to stay in the UK, following an intense campaign which saw both pro-independence and pro-union campaign groups scraping for last-minute support. The ‘No’ campaign rallied 55 percent of votes against 45 percent ‘Yes’ votes.

    One of the leaders of Scotland's independence campaign effectively conceded defeat early on Friday morning as the counting was continuing.

    "Like thousands of others across the country, I've put my heart and soul into this campaign and there is a real sense of disappointment that we've fallen narrowly short of securing a ‘yes’ vote," Nicola Sturgeon, deputy leader of the Scottish National Party, told BBC Television.
    http://rt.com/uk/188736-scotland-vote-stay-union/
    Uggh, how disappointing. No

    Mike E
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    Post  Mike E on Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:47 pm

    Here are some more Werewolf;


    2SPOOKY4U
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    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:26 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Vladimir Putin has refused to get involved in Scottish Inpendence,

    Evil, land grabbing, communist leader, undermines the democracy of Scotland by sitting on the fence and promising not to get involved...

    The EU repeatedly tells Russia what it needs to do... the US tells Putin to let this punk rock band out of prison, or to repeal this or that law on homosexuality... getting harder and harder to tell the good guys from the bad guys... NOT.


    More like US tells Russia to allow public acts of masturbation using a frozen chicken as a dildo, or be sanctioned for crimes against humanity.
    Did they seriously do this? Did Pussy Riot actually do this? If they did I would laugh until I choked, can anyone find a good article that actually tells information on Pussy Riot and what they did and why they are jailed? All I can find is U.S. Propaganda and "Free Pussy Riot" internal media consumption.
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:39 pm

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Vladimir Putin has refused to get involved in Scottish Inpendence,

    Evil, land grabbing, communist leader, undermines the democracy of Scotland by sitting on the fence and promising not to get involved...

    The EU repeatedly tells Russia what it needs to do... the US tells Putin to let this punk rock band out of prison, or to repeal this or that law on homosexuality... getting harder and harder to tell the good guys from the bad guys... NOT.


    More like US tells Russia to allow public acts of masturbation using a frozen chicken as a dildo, or be sanctioned for crimes against humanity.
    Did they seriously do this? Did Pussy Riot actually do this? If they did I would laugh until I choked, can anyone find a good article that actually tells information on Pussy Riot and what they did and why they are jailed? All I can find is U.S. Propaganda and "Free Pussy Riot" internal media consumption.  
    Here's an old article:
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/23/the-secret-history-of-pussy-riot/

    And here's the video:
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aea_1343072683
    Godric
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    Post  Godric on Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:53 pm

    I would just like to point out it ain't over yet ... their will be another referendum coming and with the growth of the SNP we will win it ... as for Nato f**k Nato as a socialist I am for Russia

    in the UK general election the SNP has 54% of the support and looks like capturing all 59 Scottish seats and next year will see the Holyrood election which will bring a mandate for another referendum
    Hannibal Barca
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    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri May 01, 2015 1:56 am

    Better luck this time comrade!
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri May 01, 2015 1:59 am

    It's too bad the North Sea oil and gas reserves were basically depleted before Scotland could properly take
    advantage of them. I believe that Thatcher's economic "success" was 100% due to the oil and gas revenues
    coming on stream after 1979. Of course, this aspect is ignored when extolling Mrs. Monetarism.

    However, I will give all the western politicians before 1990 credit for having some caliber. They are just a
    waste of space these days. And that actually makes things extremely dangerous. Their collective decisions
    could lead to a nuclear war and are leading to economic ruin.
    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 on Fri May 01, 2015 4:28 am

    kvs wrote:It's too bad the North Sea oil and gas reserves were basically depleted before Scotland could properly take
    advantage of them.   I believe that Thatcher's economic "success" was 100% due to the oil and gas revenues
    coming on stream after 1979.   Of course, this aspect is ignored when extolling Mrs. Monetarism.  

    However, I will give all the western politicians before 1990 credit for having some caliber.  They are just a
    waste of space these days.   And that actually makes things extremely dangerous.  Their collective decisions
    could lead to a nuclear war and are leading to economic ruin.


    They aren't depleted they have found another 6 sites and the whole of the west coast hasn't been explored due to Trident being based in the area. Scientists claim there could be one of the biggest oil fields off the west coast. Westminister knows this thats why they tried so hard to stop Scotland from leaving.

    the SNP are now the third biggest party in the UK and i think the last referendum just strengthened the SNP and the cause for independence, and believe one day in the not so distant future Scotland will become independent. Westminister lied and duped the people of Scotland into voting no but they realise this now and they won't fall for it a second time.
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    Post  Godric on Fri May 01, 2015 11:15 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    kvs wrote:It's too bad the North Sea oil and gas reserves were basically depleted before Scotland could properly take
    advantage of them.   I believe that Thatcher's economic "success" was 100% due to the oil and gas revenues
    coming on stream after 1979.   Of course, this aspect is ignored when extolling Mrs. Monetarism.  

    However, I will give all the western politicians before 1990 credit for having some caliber.  They are just a
    waste of space these days.   And that actually makes things extremely dangerous.  Their collective decisions
    could lead to a nuclear war and are leading to economic ruin.


    They aren't depleted they have found another 6 sites and the whole of the west coast hasn't been explored due to Trident being based in the area. Scientists claim there could be one of the biggest oil fields off the west coast. Westminister knows this thats why they tried so hard to stop Scotland from leaving.

    the SNP are now the third biggest party in the UK and i think the last referendum just strengthened the SNP and the cause for independence, and believe one day in the not so distant future Scotland will become independent. Westminister lied and duped the people of Scotland into voting no but they realise this now and they won't fall for it a second time.

    well said d_taddei2 we are surrounded by oil and gas off our east coast, off our northern coast and off our west coast and geological surveys done in the 1990s claim their is more oil and gas off our western margin than their ever was in the north sea they expect a 100 years of industrial levels of oil and gas extraction off our west coast alone North sea has 24 billion barrels of extractable oil reserves alone and they said that was a drop in a basin compared to our west coast margin reserves

    the Snp has now 105,000 - 115,000 members from a population of 5.3 million
    kvs
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    Post  kvs on Fri May 01, 2015 1:48 pm

    I hope that it works out and peacefully. I don't see certain parties playing fair, ever.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/north-sea-oil-production-continues-to-slide-1424736097

    After reading numbers like 70% decline since the 1999 peak, it looks like serious depletion. But you are right, the whole shelf has not
    been scoured clean.
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    Post  Godric on Sat May 09, 2015 9:13 am

    The first step towards another referendum SNP won 56 out of a possible 59 seats in the UK election and with the holyrood election next year will give the SNP/Greens another mandate to hold another referendum ... and with the conservatives winning out right a EU referendum in 2017 will lead to another Indy referendum or the failure to deliver the powers promised just before the referendum vote either way another referendum is coming respekt
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    Post  Godric on Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:15 pm

    Conservative Party have just slit their throat by breaking the vow they made before September the 18th around "The Scottish parliament could only be abolished by the Scottish parliament itself following a referendum of the Scottish people" they voted against this amendment! as part of the Scottish bill

    The result was (approx) 320 to 280.

    thus Westminster can vote to abolish Holyrood at any time .... with SNP sitting at 60% on the Holyrood vote you can bet their will be another referendum soon after the 2016 Holyrood election ... the no campaign has a massive problem who to front their campaign all the political big hitters have lost their seats and Labour's finances as well as the party in Scotland is a complete shambles they are in no fit shape to run any campaign like they did with the No campaign last time round cheers
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    Post  Godric on Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:31 pm

    support for Independence is now up to 53% according to todays poll even though Independence has not been on the forefront of the SNP campaign of late .... the unionists have every right to worry thumbsup

    http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/1327913-stv-poll-scots-would-vote-yes-if-a-second-referendum-were-held-now/
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:58 pm

    As an Englishman I wish you guys had voted for independence as I believe all should have a choice. There may well be, as said above, lots of oil under the sea to the west of Scotland but North Sea experience show that it would be years, if not decades, before it was being pumped out and turned into tax revenue. Also, it will be very expensive to do so. The problem that Scotland would have is trying to maintain its current level of prosperity until then. The following puts it pretty bluntly and there is a very good chart at the link showing the effect of different oil prices.

    Oil Price Crash and SNP Independent Scotland

    Nothing illustrates the magnitude of the potential catastrophe that was the SNP's economic programme for an Independent Scotland (I.S.) that was reliant on an oil price well NORTH of $120 so as to turn Scotland into the promised land of milk and honey, the picture being painted was of an Independant Scotland (I.S.) of a paradise on earth, not that far removed from reality then that which the Syrian I.S. paints for the worlds gullible muslims that crave a fast track to paradise.

    With every dip in the oil price SNP propaganda responded with the price drop being just temporary instead as we have seen a year on the economic collapse of an Independent Scotland would have been spectacular even worse then that of Bankrupt Greece, e SNP's Economic Baldrick-esk Master Plan for an Independent Scotland that was wholly based on reaping huge rewards from North Sea oil exports where SNP propaganda had convinced many Scots to Vote to effectively commit economic and social suicide by voting Yes in last Septembers referendum that came close to achieving the catastrophe on the basis of propaganda implying upwards of £7 billion in North Sea oil tax revenues that would be raised to finance Scotland's budgetary black hole, which in the fever pitch of the campaign had reached the heights of £11 billion so as to exaggerate the degree to which Scotland could prosper and fill the void left by the withdrawal of the English subsidy that currently amounts to £9 billion per year.

    Even the Governor of the Bank of England stepped in at the start of the year by warning "the Scottish economy was heading for a “negative shock”.

    The problem with SNP economic propaganda is that it was based on a oil price being well NORTH of $100 per barrel, however a sub $50 oil price does not just mean that an Independent Scotland would have made half the forecast tax revenues i.e. £3.5 to £5 billion, instead the reality is that an Independant Scotland today would be forced to bear COSTS in support of a collapsing oil industry, just as the UK government has stepped in to support the Scottish oil industry to the tune of £1.5 billion. So an Independant Scotland would today have a negative cash flow from North Sea oil of about -1.5 billion a year and it is this that illustrates the magnitude of the catastrophe that Scotland only just missed if they had fallen for SNP nationalist fanaticism.

    However the rhetoric from SNP fanatics has not changed and given the impending May 2017 EU referendum then Scotland could still vote to commit suicide and thus trigger a series of 'inevitable' consequences that turns the video warning into a reality, much as which has taken place in Syria and Ukraine.


    http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article52068.html
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    Post  Godric on Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:33 pm

    that website is a joke ... you do realise the entire area of Scotland voted for the SNP and liberals only won the Shetland and Orkneys with a slim majority through lies and the sitting MP is going on trial for said lies ... every time a news team goes to the islands and ask the locals their national identity they say they are Scottish ... this breakaway group touted by the liberals has 130 members and only 3 of them live in the Orkney's and Shetlands ... oil and gas we are surrounded with oil and gas not just in the north sea 24 billion barrels, we have vast reserves in the north atlantic margin and West coast margin including the Clyde basin ... oil has plunge for 1 reason "Saudi Arabia" as for our economy .... yeah right oil and gas makes up less than 13% of our economy when it was at $120 a barrel ... oil and gas is just the jam our economy is diverse with a massive banking centre with assets worth over £1.7 trillion (bank of England's figures) do you honestly think our banks will stick with the rUK if Scotland stays in the EU and the rUK leaves ... Edinburgh is already a financial centre which will only grow bigger under independence ... we have massive renewable energy sectors we produce more electricity than we need ... the bulk of our exports leave through England in Independence our exports will leave through Scottish ports and Airports .... Heathrow's biggest single customer is Scottish Salmon ..... the majority of shellfish sold in France was harvested in Scotland by Scots ... we have 25% of Europe's maritime waters and the most profitable fishing waters in the EU our game industry is worth between £5 and £8 billion a year with titles like Grand theft auto and call of Duty programmed in Scotland ... I could go on and on ... our education is the best in Europe according to the ONS education is the building blocks to creating a prosperous economy ... Gers and IFS figures based Scottish economy on UK capital programmes that included HS2, 3rd airport in London and the £1 Trillion cost of modernising London's sewers and the renew trident ... costs we wouldn't have if we are independent ...


    if our economy was so weak ... then why won't Westminster give Holyrood control of our entire Economy ... the simple fact is with our Economy 8.4% of the UK provides 9.9% of the UK's taxes and via the barnet formula we receive 9.3% of the UK's taxes
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    Post  Godric on Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:48 pm

    Nicola Sturgeon the First Minister of Scotland and leader of the SNP announced at today's rally that the SNP will be campaigning for another Scottish Referendum in the summer regardless of the UK EU referendum result


    the Holyrood elections are being held on the 7th of May ... the SNP are set for another landslide majority victory

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/12/nicola-sturgeon-snp-to-resume-drive-for-scottish-independence#comment-70448098
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    Post  Godric on Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:25 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    KiloGolf wrote:

    Footage of that train still haunts as I watched it live on TV, same for the RTS LGB attack with that journalist brains getting poured out of his head.
    We remember.





    These you refer to i belive.

    Yeah... sadly, many Serbs forgot, or prefer to not remember.

    their is a video of the former SNP leader Alex Salmond in the UK Parliament lambasting the UK government and Nato for bombing Serbia and found it disgusting that NATO was bombing European cities on youtube ... i can't find it now

    early next year will see the 2nd Scottish Independence referendum .... we will not be a member Nato will make a stipulation of Scotland's continuing of basing the rUKs nuclear deterrent at faslane which will never be accepted by any political party in Scotland accept from the Scottish tories
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:53 pm

    Godric wrote:

    early next year will see the 2nd Scottish Independence referendum .... we will not be a member Nato will make a stipulation of Scotland's continuing of basing the rUKs nuclear deterrent at faslane  which will never be accepted by any political party in Scotland accept from the Scottish tories

    I'm all in favour of Scotland having to stand on its own two feet but I don't think it will happen and this is not the thread to discuss it.

    All this stuff about Serbia shouldn't be here either.
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    Post  KiloGolf on Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:28 pm

    Godric wrote:early next year will see the 2nd Scottish Independence referendum .... we will not be a member Nato will make a stipulation of Scotland's continuing of basing the rUKs nuclear deterrent at faslane  which will never be accepted by any political party in Scotland accept from the Scottish tories

    Don't mix these two issues. Shetland and Orkney will gladly keep the UK, same for major cities and counties in Scotland itself.
    If SNP wants to become the New Palestinian authority, they can go right ahead.

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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:31 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    Godric wrote:early next year will see the 2nd Scottish Independence referendum .... we will not be a member Nato will make a stipulation of Scotland's continuing of basing the rUKs nuclear deterrent at faslane  which will never be accepted by any political party in Scotland accept from the Scottish tories

    Don't mix these two issues. Shetland and Orkney will gladly keep the UK, same for major cities and counties in Scotland itself.
    If SNP wants to become the New Palestinian authority, they can go right ahead.

    WTF has this to do with Ukraine???

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