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PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

CaptainPakistan

CaptainPakistan: Posts : 18
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Join date : 2013-12-04

Post n°176

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

CaptainPakistan 06/12/13, 02:01 am

TR1 wrote:Pakistan flied 40 year old Mirages and MiG-21 copies.
Better planes LOL!
Trollllll
His comments about India are hilarious too. The PAF has nothing for the IAF, period.

Last time PAF fought the soviet air force, the Russians all got shot down. So lets not even go there Smile

As for our old planes, it doesn't matter. Our pilots fly, unlike yours who spent the last 20 years flying 15 hours a year. Our missiles work, not like R-27 which is basically dead weight.
We have better AWACS than you, Better EW than you and Better Missiles than you. Period. In terms of 4th Gen airframes, we can put more into the air at any point than the Russians can. Your Mig-29 fleet is rusting, according to your own minstry of defence. They are not airworthy. The addition of J-10 to our fleet will enhance this even more. Lets be honest here. You may have more planes, but they don't fly and the ones that can fly will be flown by rusty amateurs.

Now to get back on topic with the PAK FA. What do you mean prototype? They cant change the ducts without redesigning the entire aircraft. That will take them another 20 years and quite simply wont happen. Anyway Project might get scrapped, already they are cannabalising prototypes to keep them flying:
PAK-FA, T-50: News #2 - Page 8 061725

Look at this? They had to canabalise 051 and 052 to make one able to fly. These problems already? These guys need to sort their act out. Even the Chinese are making them look bad!

sepheronx

sepheronx: Posts : 8558
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Post n°177

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

sepheronx 06/12/13, 02:28 am

Good job grasping at straws.

No, they didnt canibalize them
J-10 is barely in production. I heard that Pakistan was gonna get that lavi knockoff years ago. Nowhere to be seen.
JF-17 is your only recent purchase jets that are new and not some knockdown model or cheap copy is still part of Russian engineering, as well as majority other equipment that Pakistan uses. Too bad they are too poor in purchasing the real ones and a decent aircraft. Those F-16's were gifts on US tax payers funds. Yeah, my father worked in Pakistan airforce in 1985, he was not impressed with their knowledge and capabilities. Which is evident in dealing with Taliban insurgents in your country.

CaptainPakistan

CaptainPakistan: Posts : 18
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Join date : 2013-12-04

Post n°178

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

CaptainPakistan 06/12/13, 03:48 am

look at the photo. you can see the 051 tail on 052! They had to actually strip airframes, not just parts! They didnt even have the money to paint it! Is this how bad things are.
No stealth, No AESA, No 4th Gen engines. This is not a fifth Gen fighter. End of story.

sepheronx

sepheronx: Posts : 8558
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Post n°179

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

sepheronx 06/12/13, 04:30 am

Are you stupid? Lije I said N-050 is aesa and it is onboard on t-50-4 right now.

And it is made of stealth material, called RAM, which they had for decades. First used on Kh-101 missiles.

ali.a.r

ali.a.r: Posts : 117
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Post n°180

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

ali.a.r 06/12/13, 04:36 am

No stealth, No AESA, No 4th Gen engines. This is not a fifth Gen fighter. End of story. wrote:

You are absolutely right, it is not a 5th gen fighter. It is a PROTOTYPE for one. Means they test out stealth, they test out AESA and avionics, they test out engines on these prototypes, work out the errors and bugs to try and create as flawless a product as possible. Only when everything's hammered out will it go into production as an actual fighter.

As foror the tails, I heard that the first prototype was grounded after finishing its testing. If thats the case, then there is no problem with using its tails considering that its not really gonna be needing them anymore.

TR1

TR1: Posts : 5435
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Post n°181

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

TR1 06/12/13, 04:43 am

All of the T-50s are flying now, the tail replacement was temporary. Ofc such cannibalization is nothing unusual, but some people live in a weird land.

Werewolf

Werewolf: Posts : 5919
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Post n°182

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

Werewolf 06/12/13, 05:46 am

I think we should ignore him like TR1 said already.

I make an amateur psychological assumption that he has no friends since a long time and just forgot the basics of social behavior to get a normal discussion with other people.
He just tries to fight his loneliness with an awkward method.

CaptainPakistan

CaptainPakistan: Posts : 18
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Join date : 2013-12-04

Post n°183

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

CaptainPakistan 06/12/13, 06:40 am

Why nobody here can debate me and can only insult? Can we please be civilised?

Cyberspec

Cyberspec: Posts : 2904
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Post n°184

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

Cyberspec 06/12/13, 11:07 am

I see that trolls have received reinforcements from the "superpower" Pakistan. I might even be impressed if it wasn't for the fact it gets bombed daily by propeller driven UAV's and foreigners carry out raids deep inside the country at whim Rolling Eyes

Yet no sign of the mighty PAF:?:

...

Back on topic...can't remember if this was posted here previously. It has some interesting info

Rpg type 7v

Rpg type 7v: Posts : 245
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Post n°185

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

Rpg type 7v 06/12/13, 12:23 pm

that pak-fa video has some pretty big errors in it.

sepheronx

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Post n°186

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

sepheronx 06/12/13, 12:28 pm

Such as.....?

Werewolf

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Post n°187

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

Werewolf 06/12/13, 12:30 pm

Yes, the error is it has no US flag on it otherwise he would masturbate on that shit all day long.

Cyberspec

Cyberspec: Posts : 2904
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Post n°188

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

Cyberspec 06/12/13, 12:46 pm

It's a basic overview for the general public but it gives an idea what's used in it's production.

GarryB

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Post n°189

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

GarryB 06/12/13, 08:02 pm

Why nobody here can debate me and can only insult?

You come to a Russian based English forum and say Russian pilots are amateurs?

Change your tone or you will be gone.

Deep Throat

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Post n°190

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

Deep Throat 07/12/13, 06:37 am

CaptainPakistan wrote:
Last time PAF fought the soviet air force, the Russians all got shot down. So lets not even go there

When did the Pakistani Air Force fight the Soviet ? The only wars you guys fight are with Hindus across the border .

CaptainPakistan wrote:You may have more planes, but they don't fly and the ones that can fly will be flown by rusty amateurs.

I suspect you have recently been hired by the Taliban or Al Qaeda .

zg18

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Post n°191

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

zg18 07/12/13, 06:57 am

Deep Throat wrote:When did the Pakistani Air Force fight the Soviet ? The only wars you guys fight are with Hindus across the border .

I also don`t know what the guy is talking about, PAF F-16 was shot down by Soviet MiG-23MLD in 1987 , confirmed by New York Times and Washington Post. Pakistan declared it as "frendly fire" incident.

That`s the only real confirmed incident , rest are BS stories.

Rpg type 7v

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Post n°192

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

Rpg type 7v 07/12/13, 08:09 am

Lets be realistic , final pak-fa will be better not because its newer or better computing ,materials , or whatever else- on its own ,or because its russian , it will be better only because of hard work and allot of testing .
That is all , and there is plenty of evidence it has many problems so far from reinforcements added to its construction ,switched tail surfaces ,engine flameouts,lack of some stealth characteristics (stealth nozzle and irst included) ,testing and production schedule slipp ups many times, etc....
Many guys including me on keypublishing forums were bashed and banned because they said from the start compressor face was visible (and they were right) by some other people who even fabricated diagrams or just plain called those forumers stupid and what not...
The same pattern repeats itself here.
Why did sukhoi made another static t-50-x prototype unless there is a serious redesign in internal /external structure??
The many teething problems of pak-fa are visible if you want to look objectively ,especially since its first true operational stealth platform in russia.
But that is only natural at this stage nobody thinks it will finish inferior at the end per se, but so far we cannot but notice thiese things, but there is still time and I think we shall see incremental improvements in these areas. There is still allot of work left for pak-fa.

SOC

SOC: Posts : 565
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Post n°193

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

SOC 07/12/13, 04:02 pm

Rpg type 7v wrote:compressor face was visible

Is it? Or is that a non-moving RAM-treated inlet blocker like the F/A-18E/F uses, and the X-32 would've used?

GarryB

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Post n°194

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

GarryB 07/12/13, 09:38 pm

The many teething problems of pak-fa are visible if you want to look objectively ,especially since its first true operational stealth platform in russia.

You are not getting it are you...

There are an enormous number of issues and problems that need to be tested and dealt with when designing anything let alone anything as complex as a 5th gen fighter.

You don't start the process by saying this is what the serial production aircraft will look like with the first prototype.

You start by testing systems in other aircraft... radars, radios, jammers, sensors.... all sorts of stuff but the tests are only simple and basic tests.

the first prototype will be to see where everything you want to put in it fits.

Then you build your first flying prototype and you use it to test the aerodynamics and engines... can the thing fly? is all that has to answer.

They clearly found that it can fly but that certain areas need to be strengthened... it is a prototype... you don't strip it down and completely rebuild it... you put in support structures and see if that fixes the problems... if it does then you make the structure of the next produced prototype stronger so it doesn't need the extra support... you might not notice the cracking for some time so the new structure might be the 4th or 5th flying prototype.

Testing everything at once means you don't know what might be causing the problem... separate prototypes isolate issues and make them easier to find and solve. The collections of fixes and patches and modifications are then applied to a prototype to test things together. Then you try to optimise production and fabrication of the prototype with a pre series production model.

Until this time we will certainly not see the model that tests stealth because it doesn't need to fly... it can be mounted on a platform and tested, so of course you can see engine fan blades... the PAK FA prototypes are not stealth aircraft in the sense that they are finished stealth aircraft. They don't even have the final engines... why bother making the flying prototypes stealthy?

Why did sukhoi made another static t-50-x prototype unless there is a serious redesign in internal /external structure??

Maybe it is for optimising production. Making things more modular and redundant so it is easier to service?

There are lots of reasons why they might want another static model...

SOC

SOC: Posts : 565
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Post n°195

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

SOC 07/12/13, 09:42 pm

There was a pole model at the Voronezh RCS range in August.

Sujoy

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Post n°196

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

Sujoy 09/12/13, 08:02 am

Russia Finalizing K 77 Air to Air Missile for the PAK FA

Russia is finalizing an advanced air engagement system combining “fire-and-forget” guidance and “single-shot kill” ability within a single air-to-air missile. The system aims to frustrate any missile evasion maneuvers enabling a target to escape.

The K-77M air-to-air missile with this advanced guidance system will be fitted on to the fifth-generation fighter jet PAK-FA (advanced frontline aircraft system, also codenamed T-50) and it will start to be delivered to the Russian Air Force by 2017.

The major innovation of the K-77M air-to-air missile is its guidance system, based on an active phased array antenna (APAA) of its own, Izvestia daily reports. With APAA onboard, the missile has zero reaction time to unexpected evolutions of the target, which means that once it locks on an aircraft, it would hit it no matter what aerial acrobatics the target would perform to shake off the inbound killer missile.

The APAA guidance system for K-77M missiles has been elaborated by the Detal design bureau, based in the town of Kamensk-Uralsky in Russia’s Urals. The enterprise is a subdivision of Russia’s state-owned Tactical Missile Munitions Corporation.

Mikhail Vershinin, chief engineer of the Detal design bureau, told Izvestia that the enterprise is currently looking for a contractor which would install a state-of-the-art production line at the facility so that the system could start to be manufactured as soon as 2015.

http://rt.com/news/t50-missile-advanced-guidance-643/

magnumcromagnon

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Post n°197

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

magnumcromagnon 12/12/13, 04:00 pm

I'm going to be upfront and honest, I'm very ignorant on the concept of "plasma stealth" technology, and I would love to be enlightened by significantly more informed individuals on this forum on this matter/subject. As of now I only have a rudimentary understanding of the concept, and apparently the Russian federation has developed the technology since 1999, and from what I've heard apparently the RCS signature is reduced by a factor of 100, am I correct? If that case is true is it theoretically possible to install plasma technology on non-stealth aircraft and make them comparable by stealth aircraft standards? Thanks to whoever enlightens me in advance!

CaptainPakistan

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Post n°198

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

CaptainPakistan 14/12/13, 01:32 am

magnumcromagnon wrote:I'm going to be upfront and honest, I'm very ignorant on the concept of "plasma stealth" technology, and I would love to be enlightened by significantly more informed individuals on this forum on this matter/subject. As of now I only have a rudimentary understanding of the concept, and apparently the Russian federation has developed the technology since 1999, and from what I've heard apparently the RCS signature is reduced by a factor of 100, am I correct? If that case is true is it theoretically possible to install plasma technology on non-stealth aircraft and make them comparable by stealth aircraft standards? Thanks to whoever enlightens me in advance!

Plasma stealth does not exist on any Russian aircraft. It was a theory which they tried to research but which wasnt practical. The west tried the same in 1970, nearly 30 years earlier.

magnumcromagnon

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Post n°199

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

magnumcromagnon 14/12/13, 07:21 am

CaptainPakistan wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:I'm going to be upfront and honest, I'm very ignorant on the concept of "plasma stealth" technology, and I would love to be enlightened by significantly more informed individuals on this forum on this matter/subject. As of now I only have a rudimentary understanding of the concept, and apparently the Russian federation has developed the technology since 1999, and from what I've heard apparently the RCS signature is reduced by a factor of 100, am I correct? If that case is true is it theoretically possible to install plasma technology on non-stealth aircraft and make them comparable by stealth aircraft standards? Thanks to whoever enlightens me in advance!

Plasma stealth does not exist on any Russian aircraft. It was a theory which they tried to research but which wasnt practical. The west tried the same in 1970, nearly 30 years earlier.

Again I reiterate, I'll wait for an answer on plasma stealth from an "informed individual". If I wanted expertise on how to join the Taliban, or how to bend over and grab ankles in case of a reaper drone strike, then I would of sought advice from you directly CaptainPakistan.

flamming_python

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Post n°200

Re: PAK-FA, T-50: News #2

flamming_python 14/12/13, 08:31 am

magnumcromagnon wrote:

CaptainPakistan wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:I'm going to be upfront and honest, I'm very ignorant on the concept of "plasma stealth" technology, and I would love to be enlightened by significantly more informed individuals on this forum on this matter/subject. As of now I only have a rudimentary understanding of the concept, and apparently the Russian federation has developed the technology since 1999, and from what I've heard apparently the RCS signature is reduced by a factor of 100, am I correct? If that case is true is it theoretically possible to install plasma technology on non-stealth aircraft and make them comparable by stealth aircraft standards? Thanks to whoever enlightens me in advance!

Plasma stealth does not exist on any Russian aircraft. It was a theory which they tried to research but which wasnt practical. The west tried the same in 1970, nearly 30 years earlier.

Again I reiterate, I'll wait for an answer on plasma stealth from an "informed individual". If I wanted expertise on how to join the Taliban, or how to bend over and grab ankles in case of a reaper drone strike, then I would of sought advice from you directly CaptainPakistan.

Rep + for you for this post Laughing

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