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    RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

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    Post  LMFS on Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:01 pm

    GarryB wrote:It would certainly make sense for India... previously they had the MiG-29 in service as a short range interceptor, and had M2000s as multirole fighter bombers, while they also had a significant number of MiG-23s and Jaguars in the light strike role.

    The MiG-35 could certainly replace both the MiG-29, MiG-23 and Jaguar in the short range interceptor, fighter and light strike roles...

    it was pretty clear from the start that it should have won the MRCA programme simply because there was never any chance of getting 126 Rafales for anything like 10 billion... I thought a mix of aircraft would have suited them better... perhaps 30-40 Rafales and  60-80 MiG-35s would have offered them the best of both worlds in terms of weapons and sensor technology, but at the time the Indians didn't want an all Russian fleet of aircraft.

    I am rather biased but I think the MiG-35 has enormous potential and would be a rather good medium weight fighter.

    Of course the fact that 36 Rafales cost India just over 9.2 billion there was never much chance of a split purchase with MiG-35s...
    ToT would be better also with the Russian offer, infrastructure is there and the plane itself will probably cost way less, let's see if latest buys from RuAF push this forward. Considering how little restrictive Russia has been with India and that the other options all are to a certain extent linked to US it looks an easy call to me but it seems they want to keep a good bargaining position and not commit too much to any side.
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    Post  ATLASCUB on Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:23 pm

    It wouldn't make sense at all just like it doesn't make sense for Russia to acquire them other than to keep MIG afloat and working....

    I doubt this "rumor" is true. I don't think the Indians would double-cross the Americans like that anyway. Then you consider the obvious - acquiring more Su-30MKIs or Su-35s (hec Single-seaters PAK-FAs) is the superior deal it makes this "rumor" even more a joke.

    When you see these clowns throwing $8 Billion down the drain for 36 Rafale's, but back out from the Pak-Fa program you just gotta laugh at them. No offense to our Indians posters here...just obvious.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:46 pm

    Pretty much.

    As ISOS said in other thread - if they just took what was shown and tested, threw it in a new airframe with newer tech (MiG-35D stuffings), then they would have had something. Instead, they got....this.

    India already predetermined that they were not buying Russian this time round. And they won't do so again either. As Atlas said, they chose Rafale over Su-57. Which says a lot about Indians.

    They are buying influence, not weapons.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:54 am

    It wouldn't make sense at all just like it doesn't make sense for Russia to acquire them other than to keep MIG afloat and working....

    Are you suggesting the F-16 was a mistake?

    With aging aircraft the US decided for better or worse that it could not afford to replace its entire fleet of 4th gen fighters with F-22s so it developed the F-35 to replace them all... a poor idea because the F-35 is probably more expensive than F-22s would have been, but we only know this now...

    Are you suggesting that Russia can afford a fleet of Su-35s and Su-30s and Su-57s only?

    I doubt this "rumor" is true. I don't think the Indians would double-cross the Americans like that anyway.

    What are you talking about double cross?

    Are you suggesting that India must buy an American aircraft?

    So they would have to choose either the expensive F-35 or the F-16 which is in service in Pakistan... or might they consider F-5s do you think?

    Then you consider the obvious - acquiring more Su-30MKIs or Su-35s (hec Single-seaters PAK-FAs) is the superior deal it makes this "rumor" even more a joke.

    They don't need more heavy fighters... they want medium and light fighters... MiG-35s and Tegas...

    When you see these clowns throwing $8 Billion down the drain for 36 Rafale's, but back out from the Pak-Fa program you just gotta laugh at them. No offense to our Indians posters here...just obvious.

    The amount of complaining when the Gorshkov went from 1.5 billion including air wing to 2.4 billion including air wing... I must say I found the silence amusing when the Rafale won the competition for 126 aircraft for 10 billion dollars when the French basically said it was going to cost over 22 billion for that many...

    They knew all along that they couldn't meet the cost parameters of the programme, yet they won...

    And the really amusing thing is that India didn't even want the Rafale... they actually wanted and would have been happy with Mirage 2000s with licence production...

    The aircraft these new platforms will be replacing are MiG-21s and MiG-23s and Jaguars... so replacing them one for one with Flankers is very unlikely and not very efficient...

    BTW MiG is a department in the UAC now... there is no question of it staying "afloat".

    As ISOS said in other thread - if they just took what was shown and tested, threw it in a new airframe with newer tech (MiG-35D stuffings), then they would have had something. Instead, they got....this.

    Exactly what is wrong with the MiGs airframe?

    They are buying influence, not weapons.

    So why even consider Gripen?

    They are getting to a point where a large portion of their airfleet will need to be retired and replaced and "buying influence" makes no sense with the US... because overnight it could turn on you if you accidentally upset or offend them in some way.

    They like the security of diversity in supply, but when was the last time the Russians imposed sanctions on India and refused to supply them?

    Russia has proved itself reliable, plus domestic production should allay fears anyway.

    But then the underlying problem in India is the internal factions.... just like in any organisation there are those that like this way or that way of doing things...

    There are those in India who think the M2K is perfection and anything else is crap and the ones in the other camps pretty much feel the same about the crap...
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    Post  George1 on Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:21 am

    A contract was signed with India for the construction of two frigates of the project 11356

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3402021.html
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    Post  dino00 on Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:41 am

    Rostec: negotiations with India on a contract for four frigates are in the final stage

    It is planned that two ships will be built in Russia and two - on Indian shipyards

    Chuhai / China / November 6th. / Tass /. Negotiations with India on the purchase of four frigates of the project 11356 from Russia are in the final stage. This was announced on Tuesday to journalists by Viktor Kladov, director of international cooperation and regional policy of Rostec.

    "Negotiations continue, they are in the final, advanced stage," said Kladov, answering the relevant question.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5759563
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:36 pm

    http://tass.com/defense/1031650

    Apparently the contract was signed for the 4 frigates to India.
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    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:43 pm

    A contract was concluded for the construction in India of two frigates of the project 11356

    As the Indian newspaper Hindustan Times reported on November 20, 2018, Rosoboronexport JSC and the Indian state shipbuilding company Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL, Goa) signed a contract worth about $ 500 million to build two frigates for GSL for the Indian Navy Russian project 11356, with the transfer of licenses and technologies by the Russian side. This contract was complementary to the contract signed by Rosoboronexport in October for the construction for the Indian fleet of two frigates of the project 11356 in Russia at the Baltic Shipyard Yantar JSC in Kaliningrad.

    According to the publication of the Indian newspaper, both frigates of project 11356, envisaged for construction on GSL in Goa, should be commissioned in 2026 and 2027. Two frigates, contracted by the construction on the Yantar PSZ, should be handed over to the Indian fleet in 2022 and 2023.

    An unnamed Indian official told the newspaper that the cost of both frigates to be built in India will ultimately be much more than $ 500 million, which is only the initial cost of the deal. “$ 500 million represents a foreign share in ships, including materials, a project, and special assistance. Frigates will cost more due to the cost of the most local construction. This value is just being determined, ”said the representative.

    All four frigates of project 11356 ordered by India will be equipped with their own standard gas turbine main power plants M7H produced by the Nikolaev GP NPKG Zorya - Mashproekt (Ukraine), which will be supplied to the Indian side of Ukroboronprom.

    The Indian Navy already has six frigates of 11356 projects (of the Talwar type) in service, three of which were built at Baltiysky Zavod OJSC in St. Petersburg (they were transferred to the Indian fleet in 2003-2004), and three at the Yantar plant. (were transferred to the Indian Navy in 2012-2013).

    From the side of bmpd, we’ll add that the press service of the Federal Service of the Russian Federation for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) on November 20 confirmed that Russia and India signed a package of contracts involving the supply and production of Russian project 11356 frigates in India.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3421508.html
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    Post  dino00 on Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:06 pm

    India close to sealing Rs 23,000 crore lease deal for Russian N-sub

    With delays in the indigenous SSN programme, the Navy is banking on another leased submarine from Russia.

    HIGHLIGHTS

    Talks are on for leasing another Akula-2 class nuclear powered attack submarine from Russia for $3.3 billion

    It will replace INS Chakra, which was taken on a 10-year lease from Russia for $2.5 billion in 2011

    Indian naval delegation inspected two Akula-2 class SSNs- Bratsk and Samara, in Russia last week

    e photo backdrop to Admiral Sunil Lanba's annual Navy Day press conference on December 3 was a timely one. It showed a submerged Akula class nuclear powered attack submarine, firing a missile. Talks of leasing another Akula-2 class SSN from Russia to replace the INS Chakra at the end of its ten year lease, have reached a crescendo within the Navy in recent weeks.

    Last week, a naval delegation led by Inspector General (Nuclear Safety) Vice Admiral Soonil V Bhokare returned after a tour of Russia. They inspected two Akula-2 class submarines, the Bratsk and the Samara, laid up for a deep refit at the Zvezdochka shipyard in the Arctic port of Severodvinsk. The delegation also included a Joint Secretary (Finance) in the MoD discussed the lease of one of these submarines reportedly for USD 3.3 billion (Rs 23,000 crore).

    The Indian side is believed to have agreed to this amount and this could be the biggest defence deal after the two countries following the USD 5.4 billion (Rs 40,000 crore) purchase of five S-400 air defence missile systems in October and a USD 1.5 billion deal to buy two Admiral Grigorovich class frigates from Russia.

    The naval delegation's visit was followed by a four-day visit to Russia by Admiral Lanba, where he reportedly discussed the Chakra lease and the construction of conventional submarines in India.

    The Navy single Akula-2 class submarine, the INS Chakra, was taken on a ten year lease from Russia for USD 2.5 billion in 2011. Officials said the cost of the leasing its replacement, tentatively called the Chakra-3, was worked out after considering a cost escalation using the 2011 lease amount as a base.

    More:
    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/india-close-to-sealing-rs-23-000-crore-lease-deal-for-russian-n-sub-1401875-2018-12-04
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    Post  JohninMK on Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:15 pm

    The Russian government launched a broadside against India’s decision to award contracts to South Korea for a self-propelled anti-aircraft defense system.

    According to the newspaper “The Korea JoongAng Daily“, the Indian military selected a Korean-built Biho hybrid self-propelled anti-aircraft defense system as a candidate for acquisition last October after a bidding process involving a number of foreign arms makers as part of a recent plan by New Delhi to upgrade its air defenses.

    The bidding was first officially announced in 2013, and the candidate weapons were evaluated throughout 2015 and tested in 2017.

    In the 2013 global tender, Indian Army shortlisted three companies — Hanwha Defense Systems, which offered its Hybrid Biho system, and Russian companies Almaz Antey, which offered its upgraded Tunguska system, and KBP Tula, which offer its Pantsir system.

    .................................

    Newspaper also noted that, defense analysts in Seoul say it may be difficult for Korea to overcome the Russian interference.

    “The fact that its weapons were outgunned in the bidding must have come at a major shock to Russia, which prides itself as the leading manufacturer of combined defense systems,” the Korean official said. “We expect them to attempt to block this deal to the end.”


    https://defence-blog.com/army/russia-protest-up-koreas-arms-sales-to-india.html
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:52 pm

    It competed against what exactly? Pantsir is a well proven system, this other system is not.

    Tunguska may not be sufficient now compared to Pantsir. But the Pantsir would be far superior to this Korean system in every perameter. I'm assuming S.Korea offered a better deal overall which if that's the case, then S.Korea won they won.. in other words, Russia will have to offer better some other time.

    But we know what the real answer is in all of this. India uses military procurements as influence. They get terrible equipment and pay a fortune for it, but they do it for influence. To counter China, they are going with all of China's neighbors minus Russia because they know they don't have the same influence on Russia.

    As well, they already purchased AD systems from Russia so they are looking from other sources to "diversify" suppliers.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:22 am

    It says the Indians received a broadside from the Russians... but does not quote it... interesting...

    Says in the article the guns on the South Korean system are effective to 3km which is not better than Pantsir or Tunguska at 4km and its missiles have a range of 5km, with Pantsir reaching 20km and Tunguska reaching 10km... perhaps the testing was skewed to favour the SK system?

    I suspect this is the problem:

    “It is a boon to Korea that India is attempting to move away from its dependence on Russia for arms since the early 2000s,” said Cho Choong-jae, a researcher at the Korea Institute for International Economic Policy. “Korea should emphasize defense cooperation with India to help New Delhi diversify its weapons sources.”

    From the original Korean article... the Korean system is the Rafale in this case...
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    Post  higurashihougi on Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:24 pm

    GarryB wrote:Says in the article the guns on the South Korean system are effective to 3km which is not better than Pantsir or Tunguska at 4km and its missiles have a range of 5km, with Pantsir reaching 20km and Tunguska reaching 10km... perhaps the testing was skewed to favour the SK system?

    Actually the so-called missile of Hybrid Biho are... MANPADS. And I suspect that MANPAD is actually Korean version of Russian Igla.
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    Post  medo on Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:48 pm

    India buy large number of Igla-S MANPADs for 1,5 billion $ in November 2018. Interesting is, that India buy Igla-S and not newer and better Verba. Competitors were MBDA from France and SAAB from Sweden, what means Mistral and RBS-70.

    India buy S-400 and Igla-S from Russia, Barak-8 and Spyder from Israel and now Biho from South korea. How will they work together in effective IADS only God knows as they are not compatible. India most probably choose Biho for diversifications, like Igla-S from Russia and Biho from South Korea as western side. Also there could be a price also a factor. Biho cost 12 million $ while Tunguska-M1 and Pantsir-S1 cost around 15 million $. India waste too much money on too expensive toys, that now they have to economy on SHORAD gun-missile complexes.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:08 pm

    medo wrote:India buy large number of Igla-S MANPADs for 1,5 billion $ in November 2018. Interesting is, that India buy Igla-S and not newer and better Verba. Competitors were MBDA from France and SAAB from Sweden, what means Mistral and RBS-70.

    India buy S-400 and Igla-S from Russia, Barak-8 and Spyder from Israel and now Biho from South korea. How will they work together in effective IADS only God knows as they are not compatible. India most probably choose Biho for diversifications, like Igla-S from Russia and Biho from South Korea as western side. Also there could be a price also a factor. Biho cost 12 million $ while Tunguska-M1 and Pantsir-S1 cost around 15 million $. India waste too much money on too expensive toys, that now they have to economy on SHORAD gun-missile complexes.

    God knows if the Indian military has a practical military doctrine. Just look at how Saudi Arabia buys arms for influence; from a practical point of view that military doctrine was a complete and utter disaster/failure in Yemen. Suffice to say, they're (DRDO) going to have to find out the hard way, maybe it requires a 'Grozny' like scenario in Kashmir for them to get their shit together. Lets not even talk about the failure of the Arjun MBT.
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    Post  higurashihougi on Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:55 pm

    Indian Armed Forces actually are not that bad, they still manage to gain significant victories during the time when most of their weaponry are Western.

    If we look back at the depth of the history, we can understand why pro-West factions persist in Indian military. India begin as a Western-type army with Western weapons. Only in the late 19xx they managed to acquire Soviet weapons, and although the amount of Soviet/Russian equipments have a good trend to increase, pro-West factions are still strong and they will make violent resistance.

    But we can see clearly what is the trend for Indian military. India begin with Shermans and Centurions, but know it is inevitable that T-72 and T-90 is the building blocks for Indian Armoured Forces, while Arjun remains at a pathetic level of numbers. Similarly MiG-29 and Su-30 enjoyed a good position while Rafale contract is clearly just to appease the anti-Russia figures. And INSAS is basically AK with 5,56 ammo.

    I still believe that sooner or later Indian Armed Forces must find a way to purge the anti-Russia factions so that they can grow and develop.
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:22 pm

    How will they work together in effective IADS only God knows as they are not compatible.

    Against Pakistan, they don't need such big IADS with state of the art communication and radars integration. Systems working by their own with radio communication between them is enough. Su-30 are also enough to deal with pakistan. S-400 will be used as ABM while other air def system won't see action to be honest.

    China is big but their air force is still old. So again good radio communication between system should be enough.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:59 pm

    Isos wrote:
    How will they work together in effective IADS only God knows as they are not compatible.

    Against Pakistan, they don't need such big IADS with state of the art communication and radars integration. Systems working by their own with radio communication between them is enough. Su-30 are also enough to deal with pakistan. S-400 will be used as ABM while other air def system won't see action to be honest.

    China is big but their air force is still old. So again good radio communication between system should be enough.

    Man the more you post, the more you prove how little you know. Both Pakistan and China have cruise missiles in their arsenal, more than enough reason to have IAD.
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    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:58 am

    Actually the so-called missile of Hybrid Biho are... MANPADS. And I suspect that MANPAD is actually Korean version of Russian Igla.

    Oh dear... that is actually rather pathetic... most modern fighters and attack aircraft/helos can launch guided weapons from outside MANPADS range... even the Hind can launch Ataka missiles from 6km...

    India buy large number of Igla-S MANPADs for 1,5 billion $ in November 2018. Interesting is, that India buy Igla-S and not newer and better Verba. Competitors were MBDA from France and SAAB from Sweden, what means Mistral and RBS-70.

    Igla-S is a good system, relatively cheap and fully portable, it has a proximity fuse so it can destroy tiny targets like small UAVS without having to hit them directly.

    I remember that trials with older model Iglas... can't remember if it was Igla or Igla-1, where they launched 9 missiles at 9 Malyutka targets (AT-3 ATGMs), which is a rather small target. I seem to remember there were 5 kills (ie direct hits) but the four near misses meant the target was not effected because without hitting the small target the warhead of the Igla did not detonate.

    The result was the Igla-S with a proximity fuse for use against small targets.

    India buy S-400 and Igla-S from Russia, Barak-8 and Spyder from Israel and now Biho from South korea. How will they work together in effective IADS only God knows as they are not compatible. India most probably choose Biho for diversifications, like Igla-S from Russia and Biho from South Korea as western side. Also there could be a price also a factor. Biho cost 12 million $ while Tunguska-M1 and Pantsir-S1 cost around 15 million $. India waste too much money on too expensive toys, that now they have to economy on SHORAD gun-missile complexes.

    If that is the case then the Russian systems would still be the better choice as the command guided missiles of both Russian systems are relatively cheap to use and off vastly better performance.

    It would be interesting to see the actual details of the tests to see how MANPADS could beat the Tunguska or Pantsir....

    Similarly MiG-29 and Su-30 enjoyed a good position while Rafale contract is clearly just to appease the anti-Russia figures.

    To be fair the Mirage 2000 was a good aircraft if a little expensive. The Rafale is a medium fighter that costs three times more than their heavy fighter and probably even more than the projected price of their new 5th gen fighter project...

    And INSAS is basically AK with 5,56 ammo.

    Hopefully it will be replaced with AK-103s in 7.62x51 and 7.62x39mm calibres.

    Against Pakistan, they don't need such big IADS with state of the art communication and radars integration. Systems working by their own with radio communication between them is enough. Su-30 are also enough to deal with pakistan. S-400 will be used as ABM while other air def system won't see action to be honest.

    Have you ignored what has happened in Syria.... Israel and the US wont venture into Syrian held airspace... even with F-35s and F-22s... and it wasn't really the S-300... it was the IADS...

    China is big but their air force is still old. So again good radio communication between system should be enough.

    Are you suggesting that good systems on their own is all you need... no need to coordinate them or manage their use?

    There is a reason why a police force can deal with individuals or small groups of armed criminals... but when the numbers start to increase the tendency is to call in the national guard.

    Dealing with one intruder or smuggler, sure, use individual air defence systems, but a coordinated attack requires a coordinated response.

    A defence with no IADS is fragmented and vulnerable, a defence with an IADS is much much stronger and much more capable... even with just the same air defence weapons.
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    Post  medo on Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:40 am

    If that is the case then the Russian systems would still be the better choice as the command guided missiles of both Russian systems are relatively cheap to use and off vastly better performance.

    It would be interesting to see the actual details of the tests to see how MANPADS could beat the Tunguska or Pantsir....

    Rosoboroexport propose to India both Pantsir-S and Tor-M2 and in past they even install Tor-M2KM module on Tata truck for India. But I don't remember that there would be any information, that either Tor or Pantsir are actually in India for tests. Pantsir is battle proven in Syria, where in actuall combat conditions shot down different home made rockets, Grad rockets, aerostats, big and small drones, cruie missiles including stealth like JASSM and Scalp/Storm shadow, different bombs including GBU-39 SDB, different israeli cruise missiles and suicide drones, etc. And what is more important, israeli attacks went with heavy ECM support. Remember when F-16I Sufa was shot down in Syria although they use jamming. I don't know, if there is any other SHORAD, which shot down so many different targets in actual combat conditions. Integrated in IADS syrian Pantsirs also work well against massive attacks and prevent a lot of damage.

    I would not buy any Indian claim, that Biho is better than Pantsir. Capabilities of Biho are similar to capabilities of BMPT. Difference is that Biho have search radar, which BMPT doesn't have and that BMPT have far stronger armor together with ERA. If BMPT is coordinated with Barnaul-T, than it have the same capabilities as Biho.



    China is big but their air force is still old. So again good radio communication between system should be enough.

    I hope this is a joke. China already have large number of multirole Su-30MKK/MK2 and J-11B. They have hundreds of multirole modern J-10 fighters. But what India really need to worry is new J-16, which is based on Su-30MK2, but far more improved and they made specialized version J-16D for electronic warfare and SEAD DEAD missions similar to EA-18G Growler. China have very modern armament for their fighters, so Indian air defense without proper IADS will be a joke against China. Also, in air defense, Russia is No.1 in the World and China is No.2 in the World. It means, that India is also facing the second best air defense in the World, when facing China.


    A defence with no IADS is fragmented and vulnerable, a defence with an IADS is much much stronger and much more capable... even with just the same air defence weapons

    True and we could see this very clearly in Syria, where Syrian air defense newly traind by Russians and connected in modern IADS broke massive attacks of the most modern western and Israeli weapons with modernized existing air defense complexes, which were very vulnerable and uneffective in past.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:08 am

    It's no competition. The Pantsir is significantly better than this South Korean system. Significantly greater range, Command guided missiles with future prospects thanks to Hermes-K, and combat proven.

    It was placed in favor over the other systems just because......just because.

    Logistics is going to kill Indian army. I remember reading about Indian soldiers running out of ammo at a base up in the mountain during Kargil war. From my understandings, they were packing mixture of AKM's and INSAS rifles. Obviously, two different kind of bullets. But to add to it, they used SVD's (well, their variant) and other rifles as well. Pakistani troops didn't have the same issue, they all used their own G3's with the appropriate ammo.
    magnumcromagnon
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    RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts - Page 19 Empty Interesting that the IAF could of gotten 2 Su-30's for every one Rafale they would of planned on purchasing.

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:09 am

    Interesting that the IAF could of gotten 2 Su-30's for every one Rafale they would of planned on purchasing.

    In India, the French Rafale called inappropriate purchase

    Indian throwing about the acquisition of certain types of weapons have long become the hallmark of this country. But if earlier violent disputes, discussions, accusations of the presence of a corruption component unfolded before signing contracts, now in India it has reached the point that already signed contracts with foreign suppliers are subject to sharp criticism. This situation manifests itself in relation to the contract with the French fighter manufacturer Rafale.

    RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts - Page 19 1547301902_284

    Earlier, India signed a contract for the purchase of about three dozen (exact number - 36, according to the Indian Defense Ministry) French fighters to upgrade the Air Force fleet. Now it suddenly turns out that in India they counted the funds that would have to be spent on servicing these planes, and came to the conclusion that “with the contract, they may have been quick. Military experts have joined the criticism, believing that Rafale does not in any way add to the Indian Air Force’s combat capability.

    The article of Bharata Karnada in the India Today publication says the following:

    The French Rafale fighter is a military irresponsibility. This is an inappropriate, cost-ineffective purchase that does not add to the real operational value of the Indian Air Force. Moreover, the aircraft adversely affects the order of preparation for combat operations built in the Indian Air Force, disrupting all logistics.

    The author says that the manufacturers' capabilities of Rafale are too exaggerated, as well as the capabilities of its air-to-air missile weapons.

    From the material:

    For those funds that have to pay for one Rafale, for its armament and for its maintenance, one could buy or build two Su-30s.

    Further frankly mocked the initiative of India on the possible acquisition of American F-16. Earlier, the United States made New Delhi such a proposal, and the Indian authorities promised to think.

    From the article:

    Place F-16 today in the Indian Air Force can be only one. And this place is a museum of military aviation. Donald Trump's desire to sell these old planes is understandable. But why are they the Indian Air Force? In a possible confrontation with the Pakistan Air Force, they definitely will not help.

    If the Indian authorities decide to buy American fighters, then this, according to the author of the material in the Indian media, will eventually be a "hellish logistic mix in the air force." According to him, there are already prerequisites for such a “mixture” - in connection with the acquisition of Rafale from the French.

    https://topwar.ru/152422-v-indii-francuzskie-rafale-nazvali-neumestnoj-pokupkoj.html


    2 Su-30's for every one Rafale they would of planned on purchasing would mean that for 126 Rafale Dassault's, they could've got 252 Su-30's, and they could've guaranteed they were built in India, and more likely to be delivered on time. Interesting how 'diversifying' their weapons portfolio has completely backfired and the Indian military/MIC has suffered and gotten weaker because of it.  HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) is having a hard time paying their employees on time:

    Indian Cabinet of Ministers accused of defense problems due to the abandonment of FGFA

    The Indian concept of "Do in India", related to the production of military equipment and weapons, has encountered significant difficulties. These difficulties are financial. Thus, the largest Indian aircraft manufacturer HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) for the first time in a relatively long time was unable to pay wages to thousands of its employees on time.

    As it turned out, this is due to the fact that a number of investors decided to withdraw their funds from the assets of HAL. In turn, the decision of investors may be caused by constant difficulties in the choice of the government of a country in rearmament issues: they are going to maintain their own manufacturer in New Delhi, decide to buy aircraft in France, or discuss the possibility of locating production of American F-16s. All this leads to nervousness in large defense enterprises, which can not but reflect on investor sentiment. The board of directors of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited said that in January the situation was reduced to the need to take a loan of 10 billion rupees (about 142 million dollars) to pay wage arrears.

    In the Indian media, HAL, as one of the main representatives of the defense industry, was guilty of the Indian government, which decided to withdraw from the joint project with Russia to create a 5th generation FGFA fighter, as well as from contracts for the licensed assembly of other aircraft countries.

    From the material in The Economic Times:

    The defense company relied on this (fighter production). Instead, workers in the public sector giant have nothing to do now. To date, only the helicopter component still continues to work. Most other lines are practically inactive.

    It is noted that it is still unclear whether India will return to the FGFA project, which promised great prospects, or will not.

    RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts - Page 19 1547364008_288

    The head of the HAL trade union association, Suryadevara Chandrashekhar, states that the union’s defense company has sent a letter to the government asking for a clear answer about future plans.

    Chandrashehar:

    At least we will be able to analyze whether it makes sense to purchase raw materials for aviation production or not, and all projects are completely closed.

    https://topwar.ru/152435-v-indii-pravitelstvo-obvinili-v-problemah-oboronki-v-svjazi-s-otkazom-ot-fgfa.html
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:58 am

    Well if they ever do actually buy F-16s and operate them with the Indian Air Force they are going to have to spend a lot of money and time and effort to ensure Indian Air Force and Army and Navy personnel can tell the difference between Pakistani and Indian F-16s... that is an accident waiting to happen right there...
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    Post  higurashihougi on Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:55 am

    Every knowledgeable person knows that Rafale, and Tejas, Jaitapur, Biho, Arjun... are just bullshits which are aimed to appease the pro-West factions and are no way to function as the backbone of Indian Armed Forces.

    The issue here is why pro-West faction still survive in India and how Indian people are going to eliminate them for their own progress.
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    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:57 pm

    Russia's $5.4 billion contract to supply S-400 systems to India will be fulfilled in 2020-2023.

    http://www.armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2019/0109/155550432/detail.shtml

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