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    RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

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    LMFS

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  LMFS on Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:01 pm

    GarryB wrote:It would certainly make sense for India... previously they had the MiG-29 in service as a short range interceptor, and had M2000s as multirole fighter bombers, while they also had a significant number of MiG-23s and Jaguars in the light strike role.

    The MiG-35 could certainly replace both the MiG-29, MiG-23 and Jaguar in the short range interceptor, fighter and light strike roles...

    it was pretty clear from the start that it should have won the MRCA programme simply because there was never any chance of getting 126 Rafales for anything like 10 billion... I thought a mix of aircraft would have suited them better... perhaps 30-40 Rafales and  60-80 MiG-35s would have offered them the best of both worlds in terms of weapons and sensor technology, but at the time the Indians didn't want an all Russian fleet of aircraft.

    I am rather biased but I think the MiG-35 has enormous potential and would be a rather good medium weight fighter.

    Of course the fact that 36 Rafales cost India just over 9.2 billion there was never much chance of a split purchase with MiG-35s...
    ToT would be better also with the Russian offer, infrastructure is there and the plane itself will probably cost way less, let's see if latest buys from RuAF push this forward. Considering how little restrictive Russia has been with India and that the other options all are to a certain extent linked to US it looks an easy call to me but it seems they want to keep a good bargaining position and not commit too much to any side.

    ATLASCUB

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  ATLASCUB on Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:23 pm

    It wouldn't make sense at all just like it doesn't make sense for Russia to acquire them other than to keep MIG afloat and working....

    I doubt this "rumor" is true. I don't think the Indians would double-cross the Americans like that anyway. Then you consider the obvious - acquiring more Su-30MKIs or Su-35s (hec Single-seaters PAK-FAs) is the superior deal it makes this "rumor" even more a joke.

    When you see these clowns throwing $8 Billion down the drain for 36 Rafale's, but back out from the Pak-Fa program you just gotta laugh at them. No offense to our Indians posters here...just obvious.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:46 pm

    Pretty much.

    As ISOS said in other thread - if they just took what was shown and tested, threw it in a new airframe with newer tech (MiG-35D stuffings), then they would have had something. Instead, they got....this.

    India already predetermined that they were not buying Russian this time round. And they won't do so again either. As Atlas said, they chose Rafale over Su-57. Which says a lot about Indians.

    They are buying influence, not weapons.
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    GarryB

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:54 am

    It wouldn't make sense at all just like it doesn't make sense for Russia to acquire them other than to keep MIG afloat and working....

    Are you suggesting the F-16 was a mistake?

    With aging aircraft the US decided for better or worse that it could not afford to replace its entire fleet of 4th gen fighters with F-22s so it developed the F-35 to replace them all... a poor idea because the F-35 is probably more expensive than F-22s would have been, but we only know this now...

    Are you suggesting that Russia can afford a fleet of Su-35s and Su-30s and Su-57s only?

    I doubt this "rumor" is true. I don't think the Indians would double-cross the Americans like that anyway.

    What are you talking about double cross?

    Are you suggesting that India must buy an American aircraft?

    So they would have to choose either the expensive F-35 or the F-16 which is in service in Pakistan... or might they consider F-5s do you think?

    Then you consider the obvious - acquiring more Su-30MKIs or Su-35s (hec Single-seaters PAK-FAs) is the superior deal it makes this "rumor" even more a joke.

    They don't need more heavy fighters... they want medium and light fighters... MiG-35s and Tegas...

    When you see these clowns throwing $8 Billion down the drain for 36 Rafale's, but back out from the Pak-Fa program you just gotta laugh at them. No offense to our Indians posters here...just obvious.

    The amount of complaining when the Gorshkov went from 1.5 billion including air wing to 2.4 billion including air wing... I must say I found the silence amusing when the Rafale won the competition for 126 aircraft for 10 billion dollars when the French basically said it was going to cost over 22 billion for that many...

    They knew all along that they couldn't meet the cost parameters of the programme, yet they won...

    And the really amusing thing is that India didn't even want the Rafale... they actually wanted and would have been happy with Mirage 2000s with licence production...

    The aircraft these new platforms will be replacing are MiG-21s and MiG-23s and Jaguars... so replacing them one for one with Flankers is very unlikely and not very efficient...

    BTW MiG is a department in the UAC now... there is no question of it staying "afloat".

    As ISOS said in other thread - if they just took what was shown and tested, threw it in a new airframe with newer tech (MiG-35D stuffings), then they would have had something. Instead, they got....this.

    Exactly what is wrong with the MiGs airframe?

    They are buying influence, not weapons.

    So why even consider Gripen?

    They are getting to a point where a large portion of their airfleet will need to be retired and replaced and "buying influence" makes no sense with the US... because overnight it could turn on you if you accidentally upset or offend them in some way.

    They like the security of diversity in supply, but when was the last time the Russians imposed sanctions on India and refused to supply them?

    Russia has proved itself reliable, plus domestic production should allay fears anyway.

    But then the underlying problem in India is the internal factions.... just like in any organisation there are those that like this way or that way of doing things...

    There are those in India who think the M2K is perfection and anything else is crap and the ones in the other camps pretty much feel the same about the crap...

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