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    RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

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    miketheterrible

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:34 pm

    What? It wasn't due to lack of funds. The funding hasn't changed at all. It was waiting for the engines and then prospects changed thus looked to sell them or induct them.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:53 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:What? It wasn't due to lack of funds. The funding hasn't changed at all. It was waiting for the engines and then prospects changed thus looked to sell them or induct them.
    A nice order for Ukraine, they may have the first two engines already built. The US won't like it at all.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:42 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:What? It wasn't due to lack of funds. The funding hasn't changed at all. It was waiting for the engines and then prospects changed thus looked to sell them or induct them.
    A nice order for Ukraine, they may have the first two engines already built. The US won't like it at all.

    I know Russia was already having available engines produced by themselves for it. They could even counter Ukraine. But I imagine they are not ready yet so....
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    jhelb

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  jhelb on Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:04 pm

    par far wrote:Indians are not trustworthy people, they are very corrupt in nature. I don't think that submarine had any technology that would harm Russian interests but when selling to India, Russia needs to careful.

    https://southfront.org/india-allowed-us-officers-to-study-nuclear-submarine-leased-from-russia-report/

    That's one major problem that Russia faces - selling weapons to third world, uncivilised, corrupt countries like India. In almost all the Corruption perception Index, India finishes at the bottom. It's a cultural problem stemming from the practice of pagan (and therefore dangerous) religions like Hinduism.

    I've always argued that Russia needs to diversify its arms export and focus more towards European and Mid Eastern markets. If the proposed sale of S-400 to Saudi Arabia goes through, it will be a good start.
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    GarryB

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:14 am

    I've always argued that Russia needs to diversify its arms export and focus more towards European and Mid Eastern markets. If the proposed sale of S-400 to Saudi Arabia goes through, it will be a good start.

    Two major flaws in your argument... first of all European markets don't exist for defence sales really because most of them are part of NATO and therefore are the enemy... and also not really interested in buying gear from Russia except to examine it.

    Second... if you don't trust India because of corruption what the Fuck are you talking about selling shit to Saudi Arabia who is actively supporting terrorists in Chechnia and Syria and Yemen and Iraq and Afghanistan etc etc.


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    GarryB

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  GarryB on Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:15 am

    Well Turkey gave 500 million per unit. Here it sounds like the 1 billion. There should be something else in the contract because no one would pay so much for an air defenxe system. You can buy a destroyer armed with s 400 with this money. That's weired.

    I haven't looked at the details of either purchase but I suspect India wants localised production... which costs more.



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    jhelb

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  jhelb on Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:25 am

    GarryB wrote:Two major flaws in your argument... first of all European markets don't exist for defence sales really because most of them are part of NATO and therefore are the enemy... and also not really interested in buying gear from Russia except to examine it.

    Even markets in Asia, Africa were cultivated by the Soviet Union/Russia once, Finland purchased weapons from Russia, no reason why Russia cannot make inroads into Europe, South America , Mid East. Turkey is in NATO but is purchasing S-400.

    Being an European country, Russia has far more cultural, social compatability with European countries. With third world, corrupt countries like India it has no compatability. This is exactly what the Yankees do - they remind Europeans that we are Europeans too, so you are safe dealing with us.

    Russia needs to seize this initiative from the Yankees. Russia can easily strike major deals initially with fellow Slavic countries and then with other European countries.


    GarryB wrote:Second... if you don't trust India because of corruption what the Fuck are you talking about selling shit to Saudi Arabia who is actively supporting terrorists in Chechnia and Syria and Yemen and Iraq and Afghanistan etc etc.

    Putin hasn't said even once that Saudis are supporting terrorists in Chechnya. If they had why is Putin selling S-400 to Saudi Arabia and other weapons to gulf states ?
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    d_taddei2

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  d_taddei2 on Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:38 pm

    jhelb wrote:
    par far wrote:Indians are not trustworthy people, they are very corrupt in nature. I don't think that submarine had any technology that would harm Russian interests but when selling to India, Russia needs to careful.

    https://southfront.org/india-allowed-us-officers-to-study-nuclear-submarine-leased-from-russia-report/

    That's one major problem that Russia faces - selling weapons to third world, uncivilised, corrupt countries like India. In almost all the Corruption perception Index, India finishes at the bottom. It's a cultural problem stemming from the practice of pagan (and therefore dangerous) religions like Hinduism.

    I've always argued that Russia needs to diversify its arms export and focus more towards European and Mid Eastern markets. If the proposed sale of S-400 to Saudi Arabia goes through, it will be a good start.

    I agree with garryb Saudi Arabia has been supporting terror groups in Syria which have targeted Russian embassy and troops and yes India is corrupt but so is many other countries. India is looking elsewhere which I feel is a bit of a stab in the back to Russia but India has been a good customer for decades don't forget that.

    slasher

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  slasher on Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:19 pm

    jhelb wrote:That's one major problem that Russia faces - selling weapons to third world, uncivilised, corrupt countries like India. In almost all the Corruption perception Index, India finishes at the bottom. It's a cultural problem stemming from the practice of pagan (and therefore dangerous) religions like Hinduism.

    I've always argued that Russia needs to diversify its arms export and focus more towards European and Mid Eastern markets. If the proposed sale of S-400 to Saudi Arabia goes through, it will be a good start.

    I must voice my protest against such a highly divisive and xenophobic statement, which should not be encouraged nor tolerated.

    Yes I too share great disgust with regard to India's stifling bureaucracy and corruption, and the ineptitude of successive governments' procurement practices, but let's not descend into such vulgar prejudice against an entire country and religion. 

    If Russians truly wish to stand apart and take the lead in dismantling US hegemony in favour of a more equitable, multi-polar world, they need to observe and take notice of President Putin's very admirable and untiring efforts to constantly reach out and engage with the international community, and with people of all colours, races and religions (in spite of Western resistance and opposition).

    As an outsider, I am truly impressed by the man's civility and composure , which would I guess contribute to his high favourability ratings. Many within and abroad may do well to at least aspire to be as respectful and as dignified.
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    George1

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  George1 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:23 pm

    Russia to sign contract with India on building Project 11356 frigates — source

    The first two frigates will be built at Russia’s Yantar Shipyard on the Baltic coast and the other two at an Indian shipyard, according to the source

    MOSCOW, April 17. /TASS/. Russia and India are set to sign a contract on the construction of four Project 11356 frigates under a "two plus two" formula" in June this year, a source in diplomatic and military circles told TASS on Tuesday.

    "In June, a package contract is expected to be signed with India on the construction of four Project 11356 ships," the source said, adding that the document stipulated building frigates "under a two plus two formula:" the first two at Russia’s Yantar Shipyard on the Baltic coast and the other two at an Indian shipyard.

    Russia’s Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation and the state arms seller Rosoboronexport declined to comment on this information for TASS.

    As the source also noted, the hulls of Project 11356 frigates available at the Yantar Shipyard would not be used for implementing the contract and "the warships will be completely new."

    The ongoing negotiations with the Indian side "are aimed at settling all the issues, including the price of the frigates’ construction."

    The source did not specify the expected timeframe of the contract’s fulfillment. The source also declined to specify the propulsion units that would be mounted on Indian frigates - either the power units developed at Russia’s Saturn manufacturer or engines ordered by India from Ukraine’s Zorya-Mashproekt enterprise.

    In India, the frigates may be built at the Goa Shipyard Limited. As part of the Defexpo-2018 arms exhibition held in India’s Chennai, the company’s advertising materials indicated that the commencement of the frigates’ construction was expected in mid-2020. Russia earlier built six such warships (Talwar-class frigates) for India.

    Russia-India negotiations under the contract

    Negotiations are currently underway on the delivery of four Project 11356 frigates to India. Director for International Cooperation and Regional Policy at Russia’s state hi-tech corporation Rostec Viktor Kladov earlier said the planned contract would be implemented under the ‘two plus two formula’ where two frigates were expected to be built in Russia and delivered ready-made to India while the other two warships would be built by the Indian shipbuilding industry at one of national shipyards.

    Three hulls of warships laid down in Kaliningrad for the Russian Black Sea Fleet were earlier intended to be used for the construction of Indian frigates. However, Russian Navy Deputy Commander-in-Chief Viktor Bursuk later said these frigates will be built in the interests of Russia’s Navy.

    Project 11356 warships displace about 4,000 tonnes, develop a speed of 30 knots and have an endurance of 30 days.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1000239


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    Pinto

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    India-Russia close to inking warship deal

    Post  Pinto on Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:00 pm

    Moving closer towards buying four advanced warships for the Navy, India has finalised the price of the vessels to be bought directly from Russia at around USD 1.1 billion while Defence Ministry is pushing for conclusion of the contract for the remaining two vessels which would be built by the Goa Shipyard under Make in India programme.

    The warships are being acquired from Russia as the Navy wanted to enhance its blue water capabilities by inducting four state-of-the-art warships equipped with the deadly BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles in the earliest possible timeframe.


    After Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharamans visit to Russia, the Russian and Indian sides have completed the price negotiations for the Russian material to be supplied to the Goa Shipyards at around USD 200 million. The Indian negotiators have also managed to get a discount of 18 per cent in the contract, government sources said.

    After Sitharamans push to the programme, a Russian team had come at the Defexpo-2018 in Chennai and held discussions for price during the exhibition and continued it in Delhi in the last two days, they said.

    The Defence Minister had visited Russia earlier this month where she discussed multiple military cooperation programmes between the two countries.

    The Indian side in the discussions is led by a Joint Secretary-level official of the Defence Ministry. The Russian shipyard involved in the project is Yantar.

    The negotiations for the cost of the warships to be built at the Goa Shipyards will continue and it is expected that the programme would be finalised in next couple of months, the sources said.

    According to the plan, the defence ministry wants to go the Cabinet Committee on Security with a combined proposal including the cost of the Russian supplied and the Made in India vessels together, the sources said.

    Negotiations for the cost of the warships to be built at Goa shipyards will continue and is expected that the programme would be finalised in the next couple of months.

    https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/story/india-russia-close-to-inking-warship-deal-1214565-2018-04-18
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    Arctic_Fox

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:43 am

    Apparently India selected AK-103 as its next assault rifle:

    https://sputniknews.com/military/201804191063708888-india-russia-assault-rifle-deal/
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    JohninMK

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:52 am

    Don't know enough to comment on this

    By Ajai Shukla
    Business Standard, 20th Apr 18

    The proposal for India and Russia to jointly develop an advanced fighter – the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) -- has been formally buried.

    Business Standard has learnt that National Security Advisor Ajit Doval conveyed the decision to a Russian ministerial delegation at a “Defence Acquisition Meeting” in end-February.

    Doval and Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra, who attended the meeting, asked the Russians to proceed alone with developing their fifth-generation fighter. They said India might possibly join the project later, or buy the fully developed fighter outright, after it entered service with the Russian Air Force.


    Long article at http://ajaishukla.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/the-fgfa-is-dead-863-billion-advanced.html
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    Pinto

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  Pinto on Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:47 pm

    India has since long decided to dump this project as joint venture and might purchase on its completion 2-3 sq if the final plane suits indian air force specifications

    Joint venture then can be revived depending upon changes to be made in su 57 for india
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    GarryB

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:12 am

    Well lets face it... India was never prepared to spend the sort of money that could justify considering that they owned the design... much like the Su-30MKI they want to take an existing proven design and make modifications to suit their needs... much cheaper than developing a whole new aircraft... but then in both cases the aircraft has pretty much already been developed anyway.


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    Pinto

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    Re: RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

    Post  Pinto on Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:Well lets face it... India was never prepared to spend the sort of money that could justify considering that they owned the design... much like the Su-30MKI they want to take an existing proven design and make modifications to suit their needs... much cheaper than developing a whole new aircraft... but then in both cases the aircraft has pretty much already been developed anyway.

    yes you are right bro since mrca mess created by successive indian govts or say changing priorities of IAF have delayed that buy and hence this programme suffered on account of funding too

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