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    Russian Auto Industry

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    KomissarBojanchev

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:42 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:And why exactly did marussia fail whats the problem with their cars?

    Lada granta is just a mini car. They should emmediatly start designing something at least as big as the nissan almera or VW passat since cars in this class have a much larger customer base.

    Also why only AvtoVAZ? What about GAZ?
    Why can't they continue the mature and proven volga series? The only reason the latest model wasn't bought was because of the stupid "MERCEDES DA BEST" stereotype.
    They weren't selling well... Too expensive and too little costumers.

    It isn't that small, but it probably could be extended.

    The Volga was retired for that very reason, it was getting old.
    Does this look old to you?
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:50 pm

    Yes, it does.... It simply was a good car with tough competitors. 

    Austin

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Austin on Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:47 am

    Check the Range of Cars , BUS , Truck , SUV Russia can produce Cool

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/53962/?pid=579941#comments
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Regular on Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:41 pm

    Austin wrote:Check the Range of Cars , BUS , Truck , SUV Russia can produce Cool

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/53962/?pid=579941#comments
    Cars, meh, really don't like the looks and don't trust quality. But trucks are amazing.. They look like more like American counterparts than European. And I think it's great and lately I was hearing good things about newer trucks:)
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:56 pm

    Russian trucks never looked anywhere near to american trucks, they have their distingtive appereance that we got used to have on ZIL,GAZ,Ural and Kamaz.
    And i don't see the problem with the vehicles look good and from reviews like on the UAZ Patriot it got good quality like posted here before.

    Watched also some reviews on YT of Lada Granta and was positive and can uphold with VW Gold or Citroen or similiar class cars.
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Regular on Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:35 am

    I'm talking about new URAL trucks as seen in these pictures. URAL went for muscular front but still kept it's roots. Really like it. Nothing like this here in Europe. 

    And i don't see the problem with the vehicles look good and from reviews like on the UAZ Patriot it got good quality like posted here before.
    Not compared to todays SUV's. To Kia perhaps. But even Isuzu is miles away with it's Dmax.
    Look at UAZ engine options. One of them is made in Poland other one is Iveco engine. 
    14k euros for comfort with diesel engine... You can get Nissan X-Trail from 2013 for this...

    Watched also some reviews on YT of Lada Granta and was positive and can uphold with VW Gold or Citroen or similiar class cars.

    Do You mean VW Golf? And what Citroen are You talking about? C4? It's terrible car but it sure has better options.
    I would only compare this Granta with Dacia Logan. It's almost identical to this abortion on wheels.
    But how can You compare it to Golf? 




    To this






    Not to mention engine performance... Very Happy
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  kvs on Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:19 am

    If only all these fecking car companies in the west and in Russia were serious about selling hybrid cars.
    Take a derivative of the VW diesel, use the hybrid electrical engine and "transmission" from the
    Honda Accord, include more battery capacity than the Accord and you can have car with ultra
    high fuel mileage and high performance to boot.

    Instead we have these companies acting like gasoline will stay cheap forever. And the styling of many
    vehicles these days is produced by brain damaged children.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:52 am

    I have to agree with Regular. Russian cars aren't bad, but they need time to catch up to Western designs when it comes to quality, technology, value etc. 

    kvs - Hybrids aren't really the answer... EV's and H-cars (Hydrogen) are the best options in the foreseeable option, and they would allow gasoline-powered models to continue selling thanks to a reduced demand for Gasoline. Alternative designs, like compressed-air models, natural-gas options etc are also feasible and practical at that. I'd like to se gasoline-powered cars on sale for many decades to come, and new technologies will allow that.

    Watch these videos, despite their cheesy-factor, they go over some great ideas. Unfortunately this business went bust, but it will come back some day.



    Hopefully the Russian car industry adopts this technology sooner rather than later.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:00 am

    VW and BMW's are built like shit.  I know cause my family owned some.

    Add to that, how do you even.....know quality by a few screenshots?  Have any of you driven these Lada's?  I bet not and Granta has been selling very well, so that say something.  Might I suggest you guys stop talking about stuff you have no idea about?  I can tell from experience - German cars are no better than American made ones.  They are garbage.  Especially VW.  Built like crap and overpriced.  Asthetics and technology my ass.  What makes it so technological Mike?  A digital display?  I can tell you that I owned a Mercury Couger, 85 edition, with a digital displays.  So what?  My Dodge Journey has digital displays.  This technology isn't even advanced and is cheap shit if you ever worked on one, which I highly doubt you have judging by your stupid post.

    Also, if you idiots even decided to look at the price, you cant even compare the two.  I would choose a Granta over a Garbage Wagon that is 30K while the Granta is 9K.

    Edit: I wouldn't be such a dick if I haven't read some of the most retarded stuff I have ever did in this thread. I am no big time mechanic, but anyone even with a bit of knowledge knows that you cannot compare the two. One is meant for lower class, cheap alternative and the other is a massive waste of money with manufacturing on cheap chinese level. My boss got rid of his VW Golf for a Chevy Impala because it was garbage.

    My sisters Camero cost her over 40K and ooh wow, a heads up display with an archaic stereo system. Wow, so advanced.


    Last edited by sepheronx on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  kvs on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:04 am

    By EVs you mean plug-in electrics. There is an Accord plug-in version as well. The point is that the market is still
    dominated by simple gas burners and hybrids are boutique items. I guess when TSHTF we will all be walking and
    riding bicycles because there seems to be very little transition effort. It's ridiculous to burn fossil fuels like they will
    last forever. No there are not trillions of barrels in "shale oil" in the USA. The Bakken has nothing to do with shale
    kerogen deposits which no company has manged to convert to oil outside of the lab.

    Hybrids offer all the horsepower and acceleration from 0 to 60 mph that current consumers want and they burn half
    the fuel. The plug-in variants are even good enough to be able to commute to work on electricity alone. Too bad
    that composites such as those shown in the video you linked are still in the "sometime in the future" category. The
    industry is not in a hurry to market new technology and would rather milk 100 year old concepts.
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  kvs on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:07 am

    sepheronx wrote:VW and BMW's are built like shit.  I know cause my family owned some.

    Add to that, how do you even.....know quality by a few screenshots?  Have any of you driven these Lada's?  I bet not and Granta has been selling very well, so that say something.  Might I suggest you guys stop talking about stuff you have no idea about?  I can tell from experience - German cars are no better than American made ones.  They are garbage.  Especially VW.  Built like crap and overpriced.  Asthetics and technology my ass.  What makes it so technological Mike?  A digital display?  I can tell you that I owned a Mercury Couger, 85 edition, with a digital displays.  So what?  My Dodge Journey has digital displays.  This technology isn't even advanced and is cheap shit if you ever worked on one, which I highly doubt you have judging by your stupid post.

    Also, if you idiots even decided to look at the price, you cant even compare the two.  I would choose a Granta over a Garbage Wagon that is 30K while the Granta is 9K.

    I can't comment on the current crop of Russian cars. But the VW quality is a function of your model selection. You have to
    pay for the higher end versions of the Jetta, etc., to get reasonable quality. The affordable prices for the low end versions
    of the Jetta are because it is of crap quality. VW is going to give German car manufacturing a bad name.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:09 am

    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:VW and BMW's are built like shit.  I know cause my family owned some.

    Add to that, how do you even.....know quality by a few screenshots?  Have any of you driven these Lada's?  I bet not and Granta has been selling very well, so that say something.  Might I suggest you guys stop talking about stuff you have no idea about?  I can tell from experience - German cars are no better than American made ones.  They are garbage.  Especially VW.  Built like crap and overpriced.  Asthetics and technology my ass.  What makes it so technological Mike?  A digital display?  I can tell you that I owned a Mercury Couger, 85 edition, with a digital displays.  So what?  My Dodge Journey has digital displays.  This technology isn't even advanced and is cheap shit if you ever worked on one, which I highly doubt you have judging by your stupid post.

    Also, if you idiots even decided to look at the price, you cant even compare the two.  I would choose a Granta over a Garbage Wagon that is 30K while the Granta is 9K.

    I can't comment on the current crop of Russian cars.  But the VW quality is a function of your model selection.   You have to
    pay for the higher end versions of the Jetta, etc., to get reasonable quality.   The affordable prices for the low end versions
    of the Jetta are because it is of crap quality.   VW is going to give German car manufacturing a bad name.

    Most of them are built like shit, much the same with BMW, especially in NA market as most of them are made in mexico. Maybe engine is imported.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:21 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:VW and BMW's are built like shit.  I know cause my family owned some.

    Add to that, how do you even.....know quality by a few screenshots?  Have any of you driven these Lada's?  I bet not and Granta has been selling very well, so that say something.  Might I suggest you guys stop talking about stuff you have no idea about?  I can tell from experience - German cars are no better than American made ones.  They are garbage.  Especially VW.  Built like crap and overpriced.  Asthetics and technology my ass.  What makes it so technological Mike?  A digital display?  I can tell you that I owned a Mercury Couger, 85 edition, with a digital displays.  So what?  My Dodge Journey has digital displays.  This technology isn't even advanced and is cheap shit if you ever worked on one, which I highly doubt you have judging by your stupid post.

    Also, if you idiots even decided to look at the price, you cant even compare the two.  I would choose a Granta over a Garbage Wagon that is 30K while the Granta is 9K.

    I can't comment on the current crop of Russian cars.  But the VW quality is a function of your model selection.   You have to
    pay for the higher end versions of the Jetta, etc., to get reasonable quality.   The affordable prices for the low end versions
    of the Jetta are because it is of crap quality.   VW is going to give German car manufacturing a bad name.

    Most of them are built like shit, much the same with BMW, especially in NA market as most of them are made in mexico.  Maybe engine is imported.
    In general? VW's are (IMHO and my relatives own one) superior to their common counterparts such as Honda's and Toyota's (hate em')... Even the Mexican-made models are of good quality, and they are built to VW standards by VW-approved workers. Online, Dub' dealers say that they see no noticeable difference in quality compared to their German-made counterparts, and I agree... The Jetta sedan is by far their worst model, so it isn't a good reference.

    BMW's have gone down in quality and performance, but they are still great cars nonetheless. 

    Russian models aren't great, but they will constantly be improved upon.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:30 am

    Mike E wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:VW and BMW's are built like shit.  I know cause my family owned some.

    Add to that, how do you even.....know quality by a few screenshots?  Have any of you driven these Lada's?  I bet not and Granta has been selling very well, so that say something.  Might I suggest you guys stop talking about stuff you have no idea about?  I can tell from experience - German cars are no better than American made ones.  They are garbage.  Especially VW.  Built like crap and overpriced.  Asthetics and technology my ass.  What makes it so technological Mike?  A digital display?  I can tell you that I owned a Mercury Couger, 85 edition, with a digital displays.  So what?  My Dodge Journey has digital displays.  This technology isn't even advanced and is cheap shit if you ever worked on one, which I highly doubt you have judging by your stupid post.

    Also, if you idiots even decided to look at the price, you cant even compare the two.  I would choose a Granta over a Garbage Wagon that is 30K while the Granta is 9K.

    I can't comment on the current crop of Russian cars.  But the VW quality is a function of your model selection.   You have to
    pay for the higher end versions of the Jetta, etc., to get reasonable quality.   The affordable prices for the low end versions
    of the Jetta are because it is of crap quality.   VW is going to give German car manufacturing a bad name.

    Most of them are built like shit, much the same with BMW, especially in NA market as most of them are made in mexico.  Maybe engine is imported.
    In general? VW's are (IMHO and my relatives own one) superior to their common counterparts such as Honda's and Toyota's (hate em')... Even the Mexican-made models are of good quality, and they are built to VW standards by VW-approved workers. Online, Dub' dealers say that they see no noticeable difference in quality compared to their German-made counterparts, and I agree... The Jetta sedan is by far their worst model, so it isn't a good reference.

    BMW's have gone down in quality and performance, but they are still great cars nonetheless. 

    Russian models aren't great, but they will constantly be improved upon.

    Russian models? Do you even know what you are talking about anymore?  They make mercedes in Russia, maybe BMW's.  No, the North American made VW are garbage.  Look at this from last year: http://dougdemuro.kinja.com/here-s-why-volkswagen-s-strategy-is-doomed-to-fail-1485901046

    Check out the Lemon cars book next time you are in a library.  Yeah, they are not very highly rated.  If they are compared to similar quality from German ones, then I have no hope for Volkswagen.  Hence why industrial production is down, cause auto sales from VW and the like is also down.  Also hence they are willing to invest 9B to try to fix the issues.

    Lada granta is more or less a Chrystler Sebring with a Mitsubishi engine and Transmission.  Same ones you can find in most north American vehicles like Ford, Dodge and Chrystler, or European FIAT.  The display in the Granta is guaranteed to be the same crap quality that can be found in nearly every new car, all comes form China and rebadged with a different name.  Hell, even the more expensive Alpine car stereo equipment is like that.  But for $9K vs $30 - 50K for a VW, I would choose the Granta, even if it may break down more (even though it seems to have held out quite well for a lot of people, cant say the same for VW), it would still be cheaper overall to fix and run over the VW.  My 85 Mustang GT for crying out loud was better than my bosses or coworkers VW Golf.  Because well, you cant seem to afford the more expensive ones.  Yeah, if you got the money, why the hell not?  But for the average joe?  No.

    My job as a student, if it wasn't building computers/workstations/servers, installing shit for people or some basic programming, it was working in the mechanics shop at my school on my Mustang, or Couger.  I would install all of this cool crap in it, but in the end it was pointless.  After getting older, and having a family, I realized: A flashy car is just that, to show off and to make it feel like you have a big you-know-what.  Then that is when I decided to look into Kia, Hyundai and Dodge (only simply because I love dodge not because of quality but because of history - Hell yeah, 1971 Charger is a kick ass automobile.  Still didn't stand up to my cousins 71 Ford Mach 1 though).  Dad purchased a Hyundai Santa Fe, 2003 (back in 2003) for a fraction of what Toyota or any other brand offered, and it is a 2.7L v6 engine.  Guess what? It is sitting in my backyard and still runs, at 340,000 KM.  Got a Dodge Journey cause I have a family. Regret it as I think a Kia Rio or Forte would have been better as it is cheaper and much better on gas (the 3.6L v6 Proline is a gas guzzler).  When I look at my friends, yeah a VW may be great if they want to try to outdo the Asians in their Honda Civics and Scion's, but when you become an adult, you will realize such cars are nothing more than an image.  And this, is what Germany is based off of.  Creating an image that German Engineering is so great.  Yeah, 21st century lie.

    Kia and Hyundai are not growing because they make expensive flashy vehicles.  They are growing because they are making vehicles meant for the people (wasn't that the Volkswagen theme?) at reasonable prices.  Hence why I would buy a Kia Rio over the Lada Granta but that is because of availability.  Avtovaz is owned by Renault-Nissan conglomerate.  Not even Russian anymore.  Just it still stays in Russia.

    Edit: I really truly am sorry for being a dick. But I have never felt so infuriated that you guys compare vehicles based upon an interior look, and flashy gadgets. Half of that isn't even used by most people. What actually makes a vehicle good is the drive quality, the build (if it rusts in a year or not) and how well it handles itself for over a year (how many times it has to be taken in and looked at). I would seriously choose a 1970 Chevy Nova over most cars these days, as they are just built like garbage. Toyota and Honda are no better anymore due to the fact they are all trying to compete against China's cheap methods of manufacturing in order to compete internationally. Not working out well for them.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:44 am

    Sorry about that... Russian "model" equals a car designed and produced in Russia by a Russian company.*

    You're linking a friggin' Jalopnik article! I love them, but they are still butt hurt about Dubs' no longer being air-cooled. Same dudes praised the new GTi (built in Mexico) earlier this year.

    Not rated well, huh? Not according to the 10+ owners of Mexico-made models that I personally know and talk to... The US built models are built better, but the difference is still negligible. My only problem with new VW designs is the design itself, not the quality. 

    Calling a vehicle a "Sebring" is the biggest insult that I can imagine. The Granta seems like a nice vehicle, and I never said otherwise... Is it ready for the international-market? No! The Soviet car industry (civilian cars not trucks) was lacking, in, well, everything... So, it is a big step to finally market a vehicle like the Granta. Would I (assuming I live in Russia) buy it over its competitors(?), also no... That being said, it is affordable enough for the Average "Vlad Shmoe" to seriously consider.
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:51 am

    Mike E wrote:Sorry about that... Russian "model" equals a car designed and produced in Russia by a Russian company.*

    You're linking a friggin' Jalopnik article! I love them, but they are still butt hurt about Dubs' no longer being air-cooled. Same dudes praised the new GTi (built in Mexico) earlier this year.

    Not rated well, huh? Not according to the 10+ owners of Mexico-made models that I personally know and talk to... The US built models are built better, but the difference is still negligible. My only problem with new VW designs is the design itself, not the quality. 

    Calling a vehicle a "Sebring" is the biggest insult that I can imagine. The Granta seems like a nice vehicle, and I never said otherwise... Is it ready for the international-market? No! The Soviet car industry (civilian cars not trucks) was lacking, in, well, everything... So, it is a big step to finally market a vehicle like the Granta. Would I (assuming I live in Russia) buy it over its competitors(?), also no... That being said, it is affordable enough for the Average "Vlad Shmoe" to seriously consider.

    Yeah, 10+ people, vs more that I know who have had nothing but bad experience.  Once again, Granta is moving to international market  now being made in Egypt as example, and they import plenty of the other crap.  Sorry, but once again, learn a bit.  VW are garbage and nothing makes them advanced but a flashy heads up display that people with knowhow can install that afterwards.  I am far from impressed with most vehicles these days.  Have fun with your flashy Alpine display and overpriced plastic casings to your car.  I'll look to re-investing in the solid steel stuff of the 60's and 70's.  I see you are biased with your 10+ friends with a VW.  Good for you. I hope they enjoy the German engineered garbage.  If I was making an overpriced crap that costs $30K, yeah, I can throw all that stuff in too.  But doesn't mean one should.  If you got the money for such a thing, then maybe you should look at something more practical, which isn't a German car.

    Cars these days are not meant to last more than 5 - 10 years.  Hence why resale value of them are all crap.  If I am looking at a vehicle that is new, I am looking for something cheap and practical.  Not expensive and worth a mid range computer in 4 - 5 years.

    Edit: OK, I am sorry. I shouldn't be so rude. Sometimes, these type of things just get me riled up. Anyway, I hope you and your friends enjoy your VW. Since you payed for them, you should be able to enjoy them. I am just more of a fan of classic automobiles. If I was to buy a German vehicle, the vehicle has to be made in the 80's when they were good in my experience. Outside of that, whatever. Preferences are just that. I got no experience with Russian cars, so I cannot say, but so far, Granta is doing well, thanks to foreigners fixing Avtovaz. Vesta looks like their more premium line and Kalina is a hatchback. Aparently they are working on their electric car but who knows. Lada's are for the cheaper market, hence why you wont see all these little gadgets inside them. Some of them can make your life easier (like my Dodge allowing me to use my USB to listen to my music) and some of them are features that will never be touched.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:48 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    Mike E wrote:Sorry about that... Russian "model" equals a car designed and produced in Russia by a Russian company.*

    You're linking a friggin' Jalopnik article! I love them, but they are still butt hurt about Dubs' no longer being air-cooled. Same dudes praised the new GTi (built in Mexico) earlier this year.

    Not rated well, huh? Not according to the 10+ owners of Mexico-made models that I personally know and talk to... The US built models are built better, but the difference is still negligible. My only problem with new VW designs is the design itself, not the quality. 

    Calling a vehicle a "Sebring" is the biggest insult that I can imagine. The Granta seems like a nice vehicle, and I never said otherwise... Is it ready for the international-market? No! The Soviet car industry (civilian cars not trucks) was lacking, in, well, everything... So, it is a big step to finally market a vehicle like the Granta. Would I (assuming I live in Russia) buy it over its competitors(?), also no... That being said, it is affordable enough for the Average "Vlad Shmoe" to seriously consider.

    Yeah, 10+ people, vs more that I know who have had nothing but bad experience.  Once again, Granta is moving to international market  now being made in Egypt as example, and they import plenty of the other crap.  Sorry, but once again, learn a bit.  VW are garbage and nothing makes them advanced but a flashy heads up display that people with knowhow can install that afterwards.  I am far from impressed with most vehicles these days.  Have fun with your flashy Alpine display and overpriced plastic casings to your car.  I'll look to re-investing in the solid steel stuff of the 60's and 70's.  I see you are biased with your 10+ friends with a VW.  Good for you. I hope they enjoy the German engineered garbage.  If I was making an overpriced crap that costs $30K, yeah, I can throw all that stuff in too.  But doesn't mean one should.  If you got the money for such a thing, then maybe you should look at something more practical, which isn't a German car.

    Cars these days are not meant to last more than 5 - 10 years.  Hence why resale value of them are all crap.  If I am looking at a vehicle that is new, I am looking for something cheap and practical.  Not expensive and worth a mid range computer in 4 - 5 years.

    Edit: OK, I am sorry.  I shouldn't be so rude.  Sometimes, these type of things just get me riled up.  Anyway, I hope you and your friends enjoy your VW.  Since you payed for them, you should be able to enjoy them.  I am just more of a fan of classic automobiles.  If I was to buy a German vehicle, the vehicle has to be made in the 80's when they were good in my experience.  Outside of that, whatever.  Preferences are just that.  I got no experience with Russian cars, so I cannot say, but so far, Granta is doing well, thanks to foreigners fixing Avtovaz.  Vesta looks like their more premium line and Kalina is a hatchback.  Aparently they are working on their electric car but who knows.  Lada's are for the cheaper market, hence why you wont see all these little gadgets inside them.  Some of them can make your life easier (like my Dodge allowing me to use my USB to listen to my music) and some of them are features that will never be touched.
    Just saying, and 10+ is a conservative estimate. VW quality *has* dropped within the decade, but IMHO that is due to designs being downgraded and not the location of production. I get your point, VW's are no miracle cars, but they aren't crap either. In the US Market, they tend to have higher quality interiors, more sound dampening, better power-trains (the new 1.8 is an Audi design), superior handling characteristics etc (vs Honda, Toyota, and the like). My personal favorite "common car brand" here in the States in Mazda. As they focus more on the drive their the simple aspects of the car itself. They also have nicer interiors etc and look better IMO. Our model is Golf-based, which isn't a bad thing... The Golf has arguably been their best model for decades now, and the new one doesn't disappoint in person. German engineered "garbage"? I'd say the Krauts can build a better cars than any other nation, save for maybe the UK or Italy you get the idea. Lol, a practical car is something like a Corolla, which also happens to be the biggest piece of crap on the roads... I'm all against practical cars, along with most enthusiasts (if you get what I mean)....

    Depreciation is terrible in recent times, and the #1 reason is options that are expensive to add-on, yet get nothing when the car is sold. 

    "A fan of classic automobiles" - I am the same way, but *when it comes to modern-crap commuters, Dubs' and Mazda's are my preference*. The perfect car IMHO, is the Lotus Elise and/or F-40, both of which demonstrate what cars should be able to do (albeit sports cars).
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    TR1

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  TR1 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:09 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    kvs wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:VW and BMW's are built like shit.  I know cause my family owned some.

    Add to that, how do you even.....know quality by a few screenshots?  Have any of you driven these Lada's?  I bet not and Granta has been selling very well, so that say something.  Might I suggest you guys stop talking about stuff you have no idea about?  I can tell from experience - German cars are no better than American made ones.  They are garbage.  Especially VW.  Built like crap and overpriced.  Asthetics and technology my ass.  What makes it so technological Mike?  A digital display?  I can tell you that I owned a Mercury Couger, 85 edition, with a digital displays.  So what?  My Dodge Journey has digital displays.  This technology isn't even advanced and is cheap shit if you ever worked on one, which I highly doubt you have judging by your stupid post.

    Also, if you idiots even decided to look at the price, you cant even compare the two.  I would choose a Granta over a Garbage Wagon that is 30K while the Granta is 9K.

    I can't comment on the current crop of Russian cars.  But the VW quality is a function of your model selection.   You have to
    pay for the higher end versions of the Jetta, etc., to get reasonable quality.   The affordable prices for the low end versions
    of the Jetta are because it is of crap quality.   VW is going to give German car manufacturing a bad name.

    Most of them are built like shit, much the same with BMW, especially in NA market as most of them are made in mexico.  Maybe engine is imported.

    My BMW experience has been good overall. Family member got a new X3 recently. Drives very very well, packed with great technology, lots of useful stuff, and just feels like its built SOLID.
    Jury is still out how it will do over the years, car is brand new. I doubt as good as the legendary Lexus/Toyota longevity, but we shall see.

    A million light-years head of anything Russian. Drove in so many Lada Prioras this summer, ugh.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:23 am

    TR1 wrote:My BMW experience has been good overall. Family member got a new X3 recently. Drives very very well, packed with great technology, lots of useful stuff, and just feels like its built SOLID.
    Jury is still out how it will do over the years, car is brand new. I doubt as good as the legendary Lexus/Toyota longevity, but we shall see.

    A million light-years head of anything Russian. Drove in so many Lada Prioras this summer, ugh.
    You cannot compare BMW's and something like the Priora... Might as well compare a Kilo to a Whiskey-class, or (in car terms) a Prius to a Vette' (C7 is a great car, managed to sit in one at the Detroit show). 

    Lexus/Toyota reliability has hit a low in the last couple of years, then again it seems like way with every major car manufacturer.... I'd say that Honda's are still more reliable, more so if you get a Manuél tranny. 

    They are catching up, there will be a point where the quality between the cars should be negligible. The Russian car industry is still in its (out of Soviet) infancy mind you.
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    Regular

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Regular on Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:32 pm

    It wasn't me who started comparing Golf to Granta. I don't like Golf and didn't let my wife buy it even if she wanted one. Opel Astra range beats it out of water even if it's GTC version cost as much as Scirocco.
    And I do have experience with western and russian cars. I grew up with Soviet mopeds, motorcycles, tractors,
    And yes new cars are very dependant on services and their life is limited to boost car purchases.
    I remember when I used to go to germany to buy cars that even 10 y.o. cars were in pristine condition. Old people kept their cars clean and tidy. Now even simple DIY things like changing bulb is restricted by design and it requires special tools. I had Audi Q7 and I had to go to mechanic to change my break light and I was car dealer for 6 years Very Happy
    But then again when Lada Granta starts having probs after 5000 km then it's not forgivable. Check russian car forums. I would rather buy used but reliable car.
    What Russia is really good is trucks. I believe they have a chance to successfully compete in Europe. Kamaz should become like MAN.. It needs to expand into Europe


    Last edited by Regular on Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Phone error)
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:48 pm

    Regular wrote:It wasn't me who started comparing Golf to Granta. I don't like Golf and didn't let my wife buy it even if she wanted one. Opel Astra range beats it out of water even if it's GTC version cost as much as Scirocco.  
    And I do have experience with western and russian cars.  I grew up with Soviet mopeds, motorcycles, tractors,
    And yes new cars are very dependant on services and their life is limited to boost car purchases.
    I remember when I used to go to germany to buy cars that even 10 y.o. cars were in pristine condition.  Old people kept their cars clean and tidy.  Now even simple DIY things like changing bulb is restricted by design and it requires special tools. I had Audi Q7 and I had to go to mechanic to change my break light and I was car dealer for 6 years Very Happy
    But then again when Lada Granta starts having probs after 5000 km then it's not forgivable. Check russian car forums. I would rather buy used but reliable car.  
    What Russia is really good is trucks.  I believe they have a chance to successfully compete in Europe. Kamaz should become like MAN.. It needs to expand into Europe

    What, like two people had problems after 5K? Check out sdelanounas review, after 25K, not a problem. Recalls were less than 30K while now, Dodge, GMC, Toyota, Ford are in the millions. Granta is by far the best car they ever made, maybe Volga may have been better. But in the end, it is selling very well for a reason, making it best seller in Russia for 2 years and now beong exported in international market. They didnt have this success since soviet times.

    I too would choose a 10 year old car of many makes/models than cars now. But, those cars wont last forever and eventually you will need to get a new car. I will never get a BMW, Audi or Mercedes. I am a simple man in terms of automobiles. I want a vehicle I can work on myself without having to go to the dealer to do basic things. I want it to be well laid out in terms of accessing the components that gave a high failure rate like Alternator, drive belt, starter, etc. It is a shame even my old Hyundai is poorly laid out especially where the alternator is located.

    There are people who have good and bad experience with all types of vehicles. I myself have seen lots of bad experience from friends and family with Europeanade cars. I had bad experience with various NA and Asian made cars like Ford, Toyota and Honda. But never had bad experience with Dodge yet many people hate them like my sisters friend who had a 2013 challanger. Kept needing repairs every couple of months. Didnt turn me off though and so far, im good.
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    Mike E

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  Mike E on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:32 pm

    Regular wrote:It wasn't me who started comparing Golf to Granta. I don't like Golf and didn't let my wife buy it even if she wanted one. Opel Astra range beats it out of water even if it's GTC version cost as much as Scirocco.  
    And I do have experience with western and russian cars.  I grew up with Soviet mopeds, motorcycles, tractors,
    And yes new cars are very dependant on services and their life is limited to boost car purchases.
    I remember when I used to go to germany to buy cars that even 10 y.o. cars were in pristine condition.  Old people kept their cars clean and tidy.  Now even simple DIY things like changing bulb is restricted by design and it requires special tools. I had Audi Q7 and I had to go to mechanic to change my break light and I was car dealer for 6 years Very Happy
    But then again when Lada Granta starts having probs after 5000 km then it's not forgivable. Check russian car forums. I would rather buy used but reliable car.  
    What Russia is really good is trucks.  I believe they have a chance to successfully compete in Europe. Kamaz should become like MAN.. It needs to expand into Europe
    It isn't by any means a bad car, if anything, it just "blends" into the crowd of boring models too well.

    Trucks are not a huge market, hence the reason they need to be competitive in the car market as well. Simply forgetting about one (very important) type of vehicles isn't going to help the Russian car industry.

    It has reliability problems? That should always be the first thing to get fixed.
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    sepheronx

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    Check the Range of Cars , BUS , Truck , SUV Russia can produce

    Post  sepheronx on Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:23 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    Regular wrote:It wasn't me who started comparing Golf to Granta. I don't like Golf and didn't let my wife buy it even if she wanted one. Opel Astra range beats it out of water even if it's GTC version cost as much as Scirocco.  
    And I do have experience with western and russian cars.  I grew up with Soviet mopeds, motorcycles, tractors,
    And yes new cars are very dependant on services and their life is limited to boost car purchases.
    I remember when I used to go to germany to buy cars that even 10 y.o. cars were in pristine condition.  Old people kept their cars clean and tidy.  Now even simple DIY things like changing bulb is restricted by design and it requires special tools. I had Audi Q7 and I had to go to mechanic to change my break light and I was car dealer for 6 years Very Happy
    But then again when Lada Granta starts having probs after 5000 km then it's not forgivable. Check russian car forums. I would rather buy used but reliable car.  
    What Russia is really good is trucks.  I believe they have a chance to successfully compete in Europe. Kamaz should become like MAN.. It needs to expand into Europe
    It isn't by any means a bad car, if anything, it just "blends" into the crowd of boring models too well.

    Trucks are not a huge market, hence the reason they need to be competitive in the car market as well. Simply forgetting about one (very important) type of vehicles isn't going to help the Russian car industry.

    It has reliability problems? That should always be the first thing to get fixed.

    It doesnt. Just some people have em and some dont. Like all other vehicles. I guess VW and the rest should fix their reliability issues too. Hah.
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    AbsoluteZero

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  AbsoluteZero on Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:16 am




    Hi, I was playing Need for Speed Rivals this afternoon, and there was a car in there thats Russian, its by Marussia motors, i think its the b1, anyways it was cool, but when I made a research about it unfortunately it turned out that Marussia Motors went bankrupt just early this year, thats too bad, since it seemed like the company was doing well but then suddenly it got broke, I wonder what is the future prospect for the Russian automotive industry?
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    sepheronx

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    Re: Russian Auto Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:48 am

    Marussia was barely Russian as their plant was in Finland. That said, it was trying to be Farrari. Prospects so far for automotive is cheap automobiles will triumph while luxury will be low demand. So far, Avtovaz will be increasing production by 20% next year and Japanese brands excluding Toyota will not be raising Russia prices. Jaguar and Landrover is limiting to excluding sales to Russia temporarly (screw you Tata motors) but the rest are staying.

    I wonder if some Russian brand like UAZ or Zil (previously done) will try to get into the cheaper luxury market? I can imagine there is a lot willing to buy a cheaper but more luxurious car than a Lada Vesta...

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