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    Russian Car Industry

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    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:31 pm

    Russian car industry only actually started to take off only a couple years ago with intorduction of Lada Granta and Kalina 2. Add to that, it was the brilliance of Renault and Nissan managers whom consolidated Avtovaz and its partners. Lada Granta is apparently in German market now.

    Anyway, I would say Russia could do well in the medium class. Not expensive but feature rich vehicles. Lada verna will be show cased soon and UAZ will release their new line of Patriot SUV and Pickup. It is ok design but I heard their pretty good.

    I would say a new company should be in line to create something else as all other brands either have a tarnished image or an image of cheap ruggedness. Maybe Sollers could start their own line like TransAS is trying.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:16 am

    It will take time, but I expect a comeback.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:12 am

    Russian cars always have dominated russian roads.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:12 am

    Werewolf wrote:Russian cars always have dominated russian roads.
    That is true, makes me wonder about international performance...

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:51 am

    Here is this guys review on the Lada Granta after 2 years and 20,000km on it:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/52900/

    Not bad at all.

    How I see it, there are plenty of auto manufactureres in Russia. Avtovaz was only recently done its transformation so we should see some major improvements in its financial status. But how I see it, there are too many different brands. Maybe it would be better if Avtovaz aquired GAZ, UAZ and ZIL in order to consolidate it all, and have access to all markets in Russia (trucks, luxury cars, and cheaper automobiles). Much like General Motors. It may give more options for Avtovaz development of new automobiles of all markets and make them bigger, thus increasing their revenue and available funds.

    http://eng.autostat.ru/tags/252/ Regarding Lada Granta news. It is by far the most successful car in Russia for the longest time. Best selling last year and year before. So with the Granta, may mean that the rebirth of Avtovaz could be here. But they need to offer more types/models. For instance, they should offer a Lada Granta with a Diesel engine, new electronics inside for luxury.... just more options. Maybe they need to release a Granta like Concept C car, with plenty of options to start with rather than adding them later.

    Also, to help stimulate the Russian car market, they could go the way of Japan, where they subsidize buyers of automobiles, by giving incentives like Cash for Clunkers program and tax increases for old cars, prompting people to purchase a new car every 5 or so years.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:59 am

    Now that Russian car manufacturers have shown they can make "good" cars, I'd like to see them make "great" ones. Unfortunately I'll probably never get to drive one...

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:35 am

    All these sanctions from the west should make European alternatives less attractive at least...


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    Mike E
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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:46 am

    GarryB wrote:All these sanctions from the west should make European alternatives less attractive at least...
    Very true, it should lead to a rise in domestic sales.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Firebird on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:37 am

    I think cars can broadly be split into 3 groups as of today.
    1)budget and city eco-electric type cars eg some Asian and French cars as good examples
    2)mid range eg quality midrange like most Volkswagens
    3)top end - saloons, sports, SUVs, limos etc such as Mercedes up to Maybach.

    I think Russia can do extremely well provided it works closely with foreign manufacturers.
    The presidential Motorcade project looking to work with Porsche etc was very exciting. But I'm not sure where Marussia is at currently, given that its staff were laid off the M1 and M2 and sent to work on something else.

    The best people to learn from I am sure are the Germans. Not only Merc and BMW but also Seat and Skoda have been fantastic success stories. I hope this sanctions bullshit doesnt sour it for Russia and Germany but if it does, then so what, Russia cannot be lectured to by that Kenyan bastard or any of his gimps in Europe. Russian land/people are infinitely more important than any car.

    Russia has a fairly loyal customer base in cheaper/medium cars. But not so loyal in the prestige sector.
    Ultimately, it needs to learn how to develop the identity of cars. BMW were bland and ugly for a long time, but styling eventually became as important as quality to them. Perhaps Russia can learn from Jaguar too - after all Jag is now an INDIAN not British owned company - so can have secure partnerships going forward.

    Russia is one of the world's leading luxury goods areas so it would be nice to develop that area. But ofcourse that takes time. Perhaps Russia's climate and terrain leads it to developing SUVs etc too.
    Finally Moscow would be ideal for a city-car, all that electric eco shit. I dont like all that, but it will become VERY important.

    Russia is a very skilled country with competitive wages too. There's no reason why it cant be a big success in car manufacture.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:45 pm

    Firebird wrote:I think cars can broadly be split into 3 groups as of today.
    1)budget and city eco-electric type cars eg some Asian and French cars as good examples
    2)mid range eg quality midrange like most Volkswagens
    3)top end - saloons, sports, SUVs, limos etc such as Mercedes up to Maybach.

    I think Russia can do extremely well provided it works closely with foreign manufacturers.
    The presidential Motorcade project looking to work with Porsche etc was very exciting. But I'm not sure where Marussia is at currently, given that its staff were laid off the M1 and M2 and sent to work on something else.

    The best people to learn from I am sure are the Germans. Not only Merc and BMW but also Seat and Skoda have been fantastic success stories. I hope this sanctions bullshit doesnt sour it for Russia and Germany but if it does, then so what, Russia cannot be lectured to by that Kenyan bastard or any of his gimps in Europe. Russian land/people are infinitely more important than any car.

    Russia has a fairly loyal customer base in cheaper/medium cars. But not so loyal in the prestige sector.
    Ultimately, it needs to learn how to develop the identity of cars. BMW were bland and ugly for a long time, but styling eventually became as important as quality to them. Perhaps Russia can learn from Jaguar too - after all Jag is now an INDIAN not British owned company - so can have secure partnerships going forward.

    Russia is one of the world's leading luxury goods areas so it would be nice to develop that area.  But ofcourse that takes time. Perhaps Russia's climate and terrain leads it to developing SUVs etc too.
    Finally Moscow would be ideal for a city-car, all that electric eco shit. I dont like all that, but it will become VERY important.

    Russia is a very skilled country with competitive wages too. There's no reason why it cant be a big success in car manufacture.
    The would be great... As of now, they really don't have much in the "luxury" department.

    Gotta love that German "reliability"! lol1 Marussia is down the drain, unfortunately 

     - You are 100% right on the last point. They have the capability, now they just need to get to it!

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:21 pm

    Russian auto industry is a shitshow right now, with only Avtovaz and Sollers doing anything. Avtovaz showed their upcoming Lada Vesta which looks great and will probably be aimed at more luxury line while Granta will be for everyone. Then the XRay, which I believe is electric or Hybrid.

    That said,MaRussia was doomed to fail. Outside of that, all others are foreign made vehicles. GreatWall motors will be building Chinese cars in Russia. Probably to gain foothold in CIS market especially in Caucuses. Avtovaz is pretty much only hope unless Sollers gets into making their own cars.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:32 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Russian auto industry is a shitshow right now, with only Avtovaz and Sollers doing anything. Avtovaz showed their upcoming Lada Vesta which looks great and will probably be aimed at more luxury line while Granta will be for everyone. Then the XRay, which I believe is electric or Hybrid.

    That said,MaRussia was doomed to fail. Outside of that, all others are foreign made vehicles. GreatWall motors will be building Chinese cars in Russia. Probably to gain foothold in CIS market especially in Caucuses. Avtovaz is pretty much only hope unless Sollers gets into making their own cars.
    They need more "luxury line" vehicles, that being said, cheaper vehicles sell in much larger numbers... The X-ray is (so far) just a concept and nothing more.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:34 pm

    And why exactly did marussia fail whats the problem with their cars?

    Lada granta is just a mini car. They should emmediatly start designing something at least as big as the nissan almera or VW passat since cars in this class have a much larger customer base.

    Also why only AvtoVAZ? What about GAZ?
    Why can't they continue the mature and proven volga series? The only reason the latest model wasn't bought was because of the stupid "MERCEDES DA BEST" stereotype.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:39 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:And why exactly did marussia fail whats the problem with their cars?

    Lada granta is just a mini car. They should emmediatly start designing something at least as big as the nissan almera or VW passat since cars in this class have a much larger customer base.

    Also why only AvtoVAZ? What about GAZ?
    Why can't they continue the mature and proven volga series? The only reason the latest model wasn't bought was because of the stupid "MERCEDES DA BEST" stereotype.
    They weren't selling well... Too expensive and too little costumers.

    It isn't that small, but it probably could be extended.

    The Volga was retired for that very reason, it was getting old.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:42 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:And why exactly did marussia fail whats the problem with their cars?

    Lada granta is just a mini car. They should emmediatly start designing something at least as big as the nissan almera or VW passat since cars in this class have a much larger customer base.

    Also why only AvtoVAZ? What about GAZ?
    Why can't they continue the mature and proven volga series? The only reason the latest model wasn't bought was because of the stupid "MERCEDES DA BEST" stereotype.
    They weren't selling well... Too expensive and too little costumers.

    It isn't that small, but it probably could be extended.

    The Volga was retired for that very reason, it was getting old.
    Does this look old to you?

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Mike E on Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:50 pm

    Yes, it does.... It simply was a good car with tough competitors. 

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:16 pm

    AvtoVaz to Release Test Batch of New 'Vesta' Model Next Week

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:36 pm

    Mike E wrote:
    They weren't selling well... Too expensive and too little costumers.

    It isn't that small, but it probably could be extended.

    The Volga was retired for that very reason, it was getting old.


    The information i have seen is contradict that...
    Actually what i read is that Marussia cars SOLD OUT in just few months their 500 cars they planned to make..
    SO sales was not the problem..   it probably have to do with something else..   I think it was more conflict
    between the share holders , i think UK had a lot to do with that.. but also the problems the formula car of marussia
    that faced that bankrupt the company..  Last info i saw is that the Russians engineers who build marussia were now recruited by Russian Government owned company and or project they have.. but no idea what is..  So it is possible
    we will see racing cars being done by a Russian owned company.. or maybe what they will do is something something different.. whatever it is.. Marussia russian team is not jobless and got very fast hired by the government
    for their skills..and im sure their talent will not be put for the benefit of the Russian government business.

    is really sad the company went bankrupt.. because the Marussia V2 was the most amazing racing car ,
    i have seen.. looks like Batman mobile pirat    and will have bought one in no time if had the money for it..
    I know is not the faster car in the world and probably not in the top 10.. but for me is the prettiest more
    amazing car ever..

    look at this thing.. ? who can deny is freaking awesome sexy and futuristic beast?
    Looks like a car more a future super heroes movie.. the tires however needs more work..to impress like
    the car .


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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  AbsoluteZero on Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:25 am

    some not so good news about Russia's car industry, if its true, I hope the situation improves soon

    http://rbth.com/business/2015/02/23/plunging_car_sales_leave_russias_auto_industry_running_on_empty_43917.html


    Plunging car sales leave Russia’s auto industry running on empty

    Results for 2014 show that Russia’s auto industry has been thrown into crisis by the devaluation of the ruble, with a drastic fall in car sales registered over the past year as Russians’ relative income has decreased and production costs have risen. According to observers, the situation is so critical that it is threatening the work of foreign producers in Russia, some of which have already announced a halt in production.

    Russia’s car industry is facing drastic cuts in production as the devaluation of the ruble and inflation hit both consumers and manufacturers in the pocket, with statistics for 2014 showing a dramatic plunge in car sales against a backdrop of rising costs.
    According to the Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat), production of light cars in Russia in January 2015 decreased by 45 percent in comparison to December 2014, and by 26 percent in comparison to January 2014.
    In turn, according to the Association of European Business, car sales in January 2015 also fell by about 25 percent in Russia.
    Analysts for PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) say that in 2014 Russia's car market was determined by the complex macroeconomic situation in the country and the significant fall of the ruble. As a result, according to PwC statistics, sales of light cars in Russia (excluding LCVs) in 2014 declined by 10.1 percent to 2.3 million units.
    Furthermore, the other BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) also experienced declines in car sales, except for China. At the same time, the developed markets in America, Europe and Japan showed a positive trend.
    A complex situation
    The fall in demand has already had an impact on producers. In the middle of February the Renault factory was closed for three weeks due to the lack of demand for cars.
    In turn, the General Motors Corporation decided to suspend production at its plant in St. Petersburg from March 23 to May 15, even though in the beginning of October 2014 the enterprise had cut production to a single shift. Ford Sollers has also announced that it is ready to halt production in Russia.
    "The situation in the car market is rather complicated, and in the near future we can expect a series of distributors to close," says Alexander Zilberman, project director at FinExpertise.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  kvs on Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:03 am

    AbsoluteZero wrote:some not so good news about Russia's car industry, if its true, I hope the situation improves soon

    http://rbth.com/business/2015/02/23/plunging_car_sales_leave_russias_auto_industry_running_on_empty_43917.html


    Plunging car sales leave Russia’s auto industry running on empty

    Results for 2014 show that Russia’s auto industry has been thrown into crisis by the devaluation of the ruble, with a drastic fall in car sales registered over the past year as Russians’ relative income has decreased and production costs have risen. According to observers, the situation is so critical that it is threatening the work of foreign producers in Russia, some of which have already announced a halt in production.

    Russia’s car industry is facing drastic cuts in production as the devaluation of the ruble and inflation hit both consumers and manufacturers in the pocket, with statistics for 2014 showing a dramatic plunge in car sales against a backdrop of rising costs.
    According to the Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat), production of light cars in Russia in January 2015 decreased by 45 percent in comparison to December 2014, and by 26 percent in comparison to January 2014.
    In turn, according to the Association of European Business, car sales in January 2015 also fell by about 25 percent in Russia.
    Analysts for PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) say that in 2014 Russia's car market was determined by the complex macroeconomic situation in the country and the significant fall of the ruble. As a result, according to PwC statistics, sales of light cars in Russia (excluding LCVs) in 2014 declined by 10.1 percent to 2.3 million units.
    Furthermore, the other BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) also experienced declines in car sales, except for China. At the same time, the developed markets in America, Europe and Japan showed a positive trend.
    A complex situation
    The fall in demand has already had an impact on producers. In the middle of February the Renault factory was closed for three weeks due to the lack of demand for cars.
    In turn, the General Motors Corporation decided to suspend production at its plant in St. Petersburg from March 23 to May 15, even though in the beginning of October 2014 the enterprise had cut production to a single shift. Ford Sollers has also announced that it is ready to halt production in Russia.
    "The situation in the car market is rather complicated, and in the near future we can expect a series of distributors to close," says Alexander Zilberman, project director at FinExpertise.

    In my view this is a one time transition due to the ruble devaluation and not the beginning of the collapse of the Russian automobile industry.
    The only relevant number is year to year since there is an annual cycle in many economic activities. So the 25% drop reflects the part of
    this industry that involved imports. Almost by definition the gap will be filled by domestic production. Consumers are either going to have
    to save more money or settle for "less". C'est la vie.



    Anyway, Avtovaz seems to be getting its act together in terms of new models so the drop in Lada sales is likely due to people waiting for
    the new models to hit the dealership floors:


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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:28 am

    Avtovaz is increasing production by 40% this year as sales of the lada granta and kalina are still best in Russian car sales. Add in the Vesa being introduced this year.

    I think we are in trouble with car sales as well in Canada. This is where problems arive as car production is always like that or complete bust (see detroit). Overproduction is a real problem as well. Nissan and I believe mitsubishi said they wont increase prices in Russia, so their profit margine will take a hit. But some others dont want to lose the same profit margine.

    Volkswagen also opened a plant in Russia to produce engines. Bigfest losers so far in this has been Toyota, Ford and GM so far, and possibly mercedes, but they indulge more in Kamaz. Sollers itself will be taking a hit as they are main manufacturer of western vehicles but have Russian models to fall back on. Avtovaz was best performing for Russia. Technically, even avtovaz isnt Russian anymore either as they are owned by Nissan-Renault collaberation and all vehicles in Russia are foreign owned but made in their country. While recently Iran has up their production on vehicles due to high local demand thanks to their ability to be all home built. Russia will eventually face this as more local producers start making parts internally, as most producers, even sollers, are simply assembly plants.



    Last edited by sepheronx on Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:41 am; edited 2 times in total

    sepheronx
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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:19 am

    Talking of car industry:

    Manturov: metallurgists and automakers have reached a compromise on prices

    Russian car market could fall by 35% in 2015
    Russian car market may fall by 25-35% by the end of 2015, predicts PricewaterhouseCoopers in Russia. According to optimistic forecasts, this year in Russia it will be sold 1 million 750 thousand passenger cars (-25%), the baseline scenario assumes the reduction by 35% to 1, 520,000 vehicles. At the same time the largest drop at the end of 2015 will be shown by imports of foreign cars - by 48-55%. Sales of foreign cars of Russian production will fall by 23-33%. And car sales of domestic brands can be reduced by 10%, or even show a 5% increase.

    "2014 was a difficult and controversial enough for the automotive industry. In this regard, market support from the state has the particular importance. The prolongation of successful program of parc renovation for 2015 will support the market, but the allocated funds will be enough, probably, for several months. In order to mitigate the drop in sales, it is advisable to consider the possibility of resuming of the program of preferential car loans or assistance of banks that are operating with car loans. Other possible measures to help car market may be initiatives aimed at the reduction of vehicle tax, the use of maternity capital for the purchase of vehicles, increase of public procurement of vehicles, produced in Russia. According to our estimates, if the market support will be provided in sufficient volume, a decline in sales for the year could reach 20-25%, otherwise it can grow exponentially to 35%,"- said the director of practice in providing services to companies of automotive industry PwC in Russia, Sergey Litvinenko.

    I read in another article that the biggest hit is actually the high interest rates and thus it is harder to obtain a loan for a vehicle in Russia at reasonable rates. This is of course fault of the CBR and they should be forced to lower the interest rate or at least the government step in and start providing car loans at their own rates through a credit union of their own.

    I wonder, are there credit unions in Russia? Do they fall under the laws of the banking system? Because if private entities in Russia in 2008/2009 were able to provide loans to people at 5% interest when interest rates were 15%, then technically the government can do the same, no?

    Also, can someone please find data on car production/sales of January 2009 compared to now? Only figure I could find was from 2013. But from my understanding, the 2008/9 crisis had the hardest effect on the automobile industry in Russia, and it seems they are selling more now than in 2009.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:40 pm

    kvs wrote:
    AbsoluteZero wrote:some not so good news about Russia's car industry, if its true, I hope the situation improves soon

    http://rbth.com/business/2015/02/23/plunging_car_sales_leave_russias_auto_industry_running_on_empty_43917.html


    Plunging car sales leave Russia’s auto industry running on empty

    Results for 2014 show that Russia’s auto industry has been thrown into crisis by the devaluation of the ruble, with a drastic fall in car sales registered over the past year as Russians’ relative income has decreased and production costs have risen. According to observers, the situation is so critical that it is threatening the work of foreign producers in Russia, some of which have already announced a halt in production.

    Russia’s car industry is facing drastic cuts in production as the devaluation of the ruble and inflation hit both consumers and manufacturers in the pocket, with statistics for 2014 showing a dramatic plunge in car sales against a backdrop of rising costs.
    According to the Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat), production of light cars in Russia in January 2015 decreased by 45 percent in comparison to December 2014, and by 26 percent in comparison to January 2014.
    In turn, according to the Association of European Business, car sales in January 2015 also fell by about 25 percent in Russia.
    Analysts for PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) say that in 2014 Russia's car market was determined by the complex macroeconomic situation in the country and the significant fall of the ruble. As a result, according to PwC statistics, sales of light cars in Russia (excluding LCVs) in 2014 declined by 10.1 percent to 2.3 million units.
    Furthermore, the other BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) also experienced declines in car sales, except for China. At the same time, the developed markets in America, Europe and Japan showed a positive trend.
    A complex situation
    The fall in demand has already had an impact on producers. In the middle of February the Renault factory was closed for three weeks due to the lack of demand for cars.
    In turn, the General Motors Corporation decided to suspend production at its plant in St. Petersburg from March 23 to May 15, even though in the beginning of October 2014 the enterprise had cut production to a single shift. Ford Sollers has also announced that it is ready to halt production in Russia.
    "The situation in the car market is rather complicated, and in the near future we can expect a series of distributors to close," says Alexander Zilberman, project director at FinExpertise.

    In my view this is a one time transition due to the ruble devaluation and not the beginning of the collapse of the Russian automobile industry.
    The only relevant number is year to year since there is an annual cycle in many economic activities.   So the 25% drop reflects the part of
    this industry that involved imports.   Almost by definition the gap will be filled by domestic production.   Consumers are either going to have
    to save more money or settle for "less".   C'est la vie.  



    Anyway, Avtovaz seems to be getting its act together in terms of new models so the drop in Lada sales is likely due to people waiting for
    the new models to hit the dealership floors:


    kvs,

    I voted for your post because of the sales figures of vehicles during January.
    Can you please indicate the source where you got the table from?

    By the way, some of the biggest losers are the US makers: GM (Chevrolet and Opel) and Ford
    Hurting the US automakers without placing sanctions Cool

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:51 pm

    Well, it stated in the link I provided in last post stated biggest losers have been the foreign automakers who just assemble in Russia and that so far, the ones with the higher sales are newer cheaper models (datson or whatever it is called) and localized producer of parts for automobiles, like avtovaz. It alsp states that they (the localized proucers) may grow this year and direct imported vehicles are crashing hard, next to the foreign made in Russia assembly.

    I imagine that GreatWall vehicles that will be built in Russia will do well as they will be cheaper and I heard that majority of parts will be localized production.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:41 pm

    Siberian shoe company signed a cooperation agreement with the French company Decathlon

    So it appears that my last comment prior to about vehicles, of the lenta article about clothingwear in Russia and how hard it would be to localize production due to high startup costs; seems a French company has contracted a Russian company to make shoes for Russian market, so production is being localized. Guess the Lenta.ru article was trash then. Shame, hard to find a good news site these days.

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    Re: Russian Car Industry

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