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    UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life

    starman
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    Post  starman on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:45 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    why should they if it's a natural process of human evolution & doesn't affect them in any way?

    People somehow get the idea that ETs are more moral than humans. It smacks of religion. Almost certainly, ETs were no better when they were at our current phase of development.

    But if since we r now sending probes into, & can start wars from/in space, it got their undivided attention.

    The aforementioned work does in fact see longterm security as a principal ET concern.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:30 pm

    https://scitechdaily.com/search-for-extra-terrestrial-life-takes-mars-scientists-on-expedition-to-australia

    https://www.ndtv.com/science/mars-2020-rover-will-visit-the-perfect-spot-to-find-signs-of-life
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    Post  starman on Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:09 pm

    There's been talk of possible stromatolites on Mars for a long time; with luck they'll be found at Jezero crater. I'm somewhat skeptical though. Martian "rivers" tended to be ephemeral. Most of the 3-4 billion year period was post Noachian, when Mars was already practically airless and in deep freeze.
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    Post  jhelb on Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:49 pm

    UFO Group Sharing Exotic Materials With Army for Combat Vehicles

    https://about.bgov.com/news/ufo-group-sharing-exotic-materials-with-army-for-combat-vehicles/
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    Post  starman on Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:29 am

    Sounds like disinfo of the kind once put out by Corso and Koppang.
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    Post  jhelb on Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:43 pm

    U.S Navy Officers Say 'Unknown Individuals' Made Them Erase Evidence of 2004 UFO Encounter

    https://www.space.com/navy-witnesses-nimitz-encounter.html
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    Post  starman on Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:33 am

    Not the first time authorities ensured evidence was kept out of the public domain.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:03 am

    Maybe the same unknowns that made those US pilots erase the tapes of their flight when they killed all those people in that cable car in Italy...
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    Post  kvs on Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:24 pm

    starman wrote:There's been talk of possible stromatolites on Mars for a long time; with luck they'll be found at Jezero crater. I'm somewhat skeptical though. Martian "rivers" tended to be ephemeral. Most of the 3-4 billion year period was post Noachian, when Mars was already practically airless and in deep freeze.

    Mars didn't get lucky and did not have enough primordial disk material to suck up when it formed. By contrast Jupiter formed as a small rocky moon-sized planet and grew into
    the gas giant it is today by capturing most of the disk mass in its orbital zone. It is possible that Jupiter out-competed Mars for the disk material because the gravitational
    capture is nonlinear with the size of the planet and there was a transition period where Jupiter experienced explosive growth.

    BTW, the "air" on Mars would have been 95% or more CO2 as it was on Venus and Earth. Mars did not have enough time to develop oxygen producing
    lifeforms. Stromatolites appear to involve oxygen producing bacteria or algae.

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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:43 am





    https://turproezdka.ru/samoe-interesnoe/tajny-kitajskix-piramid-i-pochemu-tuda-ne-puskayut-turistov.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:09 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  starman on Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:44 am

    kvs wrote:
    Mars didn't get lucky and did not have enough primordial disk material to suck up when it formed.   By contrast Jupiter formed as a small rocky moon-sized planet and grew into
    the gas giant it is today by capturing most of the disk mass in its orbital zone.

    Generally the farther from the center of gravity--the proto-sun--the lighter the elements so Jupiter and other jovians absorbed the mass of lighter elements as they accreted, and became gas giants.


     
    It is possible that Jupiter out-competed Mars for the disk material because the gravitational
    capture is nonlinear with the size of the planet and there was a transition period where Jupiter experienced explosive growth.

    Jovian gravity is said to have thinned out disk material in the region of the asteroid belt and Mars' orbit.

    BTW, the "air" on Mars would have been 95% or more CO2 as it was on Venus and Earth.   Mars did not have enough time to develop oxygen producing
    lifeforms.   Stromatolites appear to involve oxygen producing bacteria or algae.

    Mars essentially froze when life first appeared on Earth, so forget surface life. I' don't know if internal planetary heat could've enabled underground life to survive and perhaps evolve.
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    Post  nomadski on Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:40 pm

    The scientists recently said that oxygen levels on Mars increase in spring and summer. I did not know that Mars has seasons like Earth. But perhaps distinct shifts in climatic conditions. Such as variation in temp or sunlight. There can be two possible causes. Biologic and chemical. Do any of you know of any chemical reaction on Mars that is temp dependant to produce excess oxygen. Given Mars chemistry?


    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/science/2019/11/mysterious-oxygen-spike-seen-on-mars-puzzles-scientists
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    Post  kvs on Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:32 pm

    nomadski wrote:The scientists recently said that oxygen levels on Mars increase in spring and summer. I did not know that Mars has seasons like Earth. But perhaps distinct shifts in climatic conditions. Such as variation in temp or sunlight. There can be two possible causes. Biologic and chemical. Do any of you know of any chemical reaction on Mars that is temp dependant to produce excess oxygen. Given Mars chemistry?


    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/science/2019/11/mysterious-oxygen-spike-seen-on-mars-puzzles-scientists

    These spikes are 30% above the inorganic chemistry expectations. This is basically within the error bars since not all inorganic
    chemistry reactions are accounted for.

    As ultraviolet light from the sun smashes into carbon dioxide and water vapor in Mars’s atmosphere, it breaks those molecules into their components, creating molecular oxygen, or O2. Eventually, this O2 goes through another set of chemical reactions to form CO2, completing the cycle. In the meantime, an individual O2 molecule can hang around in the Martian atmosphere for at least 10 years, if not several decades. This sunlight-formed O2 makes up about 0.13 percent of the red planet’s modern atmosphere.

    A clearly simplistic model that does not account for heterogeneous chemistry on Martian dust. Due to the oxygen poor atmosphere on
    Mars, there are unoxidized metals in the rocks and dust. These metals can chemically attack CO2 and H2O.

    There is zero indication of any biogenic origin to the O2 on Mars.
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    Post  starman on Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:25 am

    I'd expect photodissociation to increase where there's more insolation, and it can result in more oxygen, for example if water molecules or CO2 are broken up.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:28 pm

    The first in space were the Sumerians
    In a story that goes back to 1100 B.C. and must have been known to Ashurnasirpal II, and contemplated by him as he viewed these scenes, Enmeduranki, an ancient king of Sippar, was taken to heaven on a golden throne and seated before Shamash, who taught him the art of divination and the secrets of the “tablet of the gods”. When he was returned to earth the enlightened earthling shared what he learned during his celestial journey.
    https://www.gaia.com/article/ufos-ancient-art

    Elijah was also taken to space!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah

    https://www.gaia.com/article/is-ezekiels-vision-of-the-wheel-evidence-of-ufos-in-the-bible



    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:48 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add link)
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    Post  starman on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:17 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Enmeduranki, an ancient king of Sippar, was taken to heaven on a golden throne

    People read too much into stories like this and apparently don't think the ancients had any imagination....

    and seated before Shamash, who taught him the art of divination and the secrets of the “tablet of the gods”. When he was returned to earth the enlightened earthling shared what he learned during his celestial journey.

    Naturally what he "learned" was a reflection of mythology not advanced science.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:40 pm

    Ancient peoples didn't need our so-called advanced science- just skills to better their lives while not harming themselves.
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    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:59 am

    Yeah, but those happy stressfree ancients lived to maybe 30-35 years old if they were lucky and had huge families because birth mortality rates would be pretty high too... not to mention they didn't even have any idea why the sun kept coming up.

    Today we get stressed if the Sky gets cut off because we forgot to pay the bill... their stress mostly revolved around their personal survival and keeping family fed and housed...

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    Post  starman on Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:24 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Ancient peoples didn't need our so-called advanced science- just skills to better their lives while not harming themselves.

    But that's the point of advanced science or much of it. There's no evidence of immunization from disease on account of their putative ET contacts, to cite one example.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:25 pm

    They may have been immunized then, but viruses adopt to drugs, as our epidemics & recent history showed.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5499642/

    https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/biology-of-viruses/virus-biology/a/evolution-of-viruses
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:56 am

    Generally the farther from the center of gravity--the proto-sun--the lighter the elements so Jupiter and other jovians absorbed the mass of lighter elements as they accreted, and became gas giants.

    There are plenty of extrasolar planetary systems with gas giants close to their stars too... I rather suspect it all depends on the shape and make up of the disk of material that the system forms from.

    From our own system we think smaller hard rocky planets form in close and further out are the gas giants and Pluto is an abberation, but honestly we really have no solid model that actually makes sense.

    We think a very very large object hit the earth early on that was at least moon sized and might have been as big as mars or venus... which suggests orbits can change.

    Earth might not exist as we know it without a large body like Jupiter sucking up all the fragments and dangerous objects that it does... either flinging them out of the solar system or capture them like all those moons, or flinging them at the sun...

    Pluto might just be the first of many pluto sized objects from the Oort cloud or that body of objects outside pluto and neptunes orbit that perhaps Jupiter or perhaps a distant star whose multi million year orbital movement brings it close enough to knock large objects into our solar system.

    We seem to get fairly regular visits from some fairly large heavy objects, so that might be part of what is happening.

    BTW if Shoemaker levy had hit the earth the devastation would have been enormous... it was broken up by the gravity of jupiter but earths gravity would be too weak and it would have hit as one huge object... we might have gotten a new moon out of it, but I doubt there would be anyone around to see it.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:16 am

    BTW if Shoemaker levy had hit the earth the devastation would have been enormous...
    I hope the ETs would have reasons to prevent it!
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    Post  starman on Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:35 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:They may have been immunized then....

    No evidence. ET would've told the ancients pathogens cause disease, and supplied the means to make new vaccines.
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    Post  starman on Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    There are plenty of extrasolar planetary systems with gas giants close to their stars too... I rather suspect it all depends on the shape and make up of the disk of material that the system forms from.

    And the size of the star. Those with far less heat output can have jovians pretty close--on a lasting basis--because the flux is insufficient to boil away the lighter gases as presumably happened to the terrestrial ones in our solar system.

    From our own system we think smaller hard rocky planets form in close and further out are the gas giants and Pluto is an abberation, but honestly we really have no solid model that actually makes sense.

    In some planetary systems, close encounters between two gas giants may have resulted in one flying inward toward the star the other out of the system.


    Earth might not exist as we know it without a large body like Jupiter sucking up all the fragments and dangerous objects that it does... either flinging them out of the solar system or capture them like all those moons, or flinging them at the sun...

    I think the importance of the jovians has been overstated. They may absorb many dangerous objects. But it's possible jovian gravity sent a lot of stuff into the inner solar system, after drawing it out of the oort cloud in the first place.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:58 am

    But then we are Sol centric thinkers... the majority of stars are twins... how would that effect the orbits of planets...

    In the 1980s I played a computer game on my Amiga 500 computer... it was called Frontier II and it was totally brilliant. It came on one floppy disk and was about 880KB of amazing fun... you could buy ships, you could fight pirates, you could do jobs for governments, you could trade, you could mine... the graphics understandably were not amazing but certainly good enough and it had an awesome map of the galaxy. The planets in the game were of course largely made up, but you could fly around in a space ship and land on planets... either in space ports in the star systems near earth, and space stations orbiting planets and moons and some asteroids... or you could land manually on planets and moons... it was awesome and totally amazing to fit on just one floppy disk.

    The interface was simple and straight forward and could show the cockpit of the space craft or external views.

    To be honest I used to cheat. What you could do was buy a small ship... the smallest one with decent weapon options and then load up hydrogen fuel and then take off and fly out in to empty space away from policed areas and then dump fuel... a bug in the software jettisoned the one ton of fuel, but you kept the fuel but it freed up one ton of space... so as you jettisoned more and more the capacity of your ship increased and increased... the only problem was that sometimes you collided with the jettisoned fuel which was identified as garbage. So you get a tiny ship with a small engine and you fly out to the middle of no where and dump 5,000 tons of fuel meaning you have 5,000 tons of free space in your tiny little ship, so you buy a bigger gun and you buy some shield generators... the more you have installed the more effective they are and being able to increase your internal volume to any size you like means you can carry enormous guns only star destroyers could carry and when you put enormous engines then your acceleration becomes enormous and your ability to jump to light speed means you can jump hundreds of light years per jump instead of 5-10 with your original engine. More importantly you can add extra stuff like self repair systems, navigation systems, missiles, jammers, and still have space for transporting people or cargo to make money. You can also carry mining equipment so you can go out to the deep dark reaches of the galaxy to mine for all sorts of stuff and then take it to places that have a shortage of what ever you mined to make the best profit.

    There are always enemy ships that will attack you of course so there is combat as well.

    You can speed up and slow down time so if you need to cover enormous distances in a huge star system you can accelerate time so a day passes in a second and then push the thrust key to accelerate to enormous speeds.

    The modeling is excellent... there is momentum and gravity and an X in the HUD shows the direction you are heading in and your speed is shown relative to nearby objects... so if you take off from Moscow on earth and head towards a space station at the start your airspeed is relative to earth but as you get close to the space station it changes to speed relative to the space station... and as you get really close to the space station you get captured by its gravity and start spinning with it (which is probably not so realistic but makes docking easier... perhaps they have a tractor beam or something..)

    I must go and dig that game out again and work out how I can play it... anyone know any good Amiga 500 computer emulators for Linux?

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