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    Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

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    Cyberspec
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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 10, 2015 12:48 am

    Vann wrote:Russia is not really taking seriously USA . Is relying too much in their nuclear weapons

    It's true that Russia isn't ready for a full large scale conventional war BUT neither is NATO prepared to fight in Russia's backyard...if there was some crisis tomorrow, Russia can deploy in a matter of 2-3 days something like 100 000-200 000 men while according to some analysts, it would take Nato several months to do the same

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    Preliminary analysis of the Kurganets-25 family by Defense Update
    Arrow http://defense-update.com/20150509_kurganets-25bmp-btr.html#.VU6L9ZOC29c



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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  arms62 on Sun May 10, 2015 12:56 am

    Cyberspec wrote:
    Vann wrote:Russia is not really taking seriously USA . Is relying too much in their nuclear weapons

    It's true that Russia isn't ready for a full large scale conventional war BUT neither is NATO prepared to fight in Russia's backyard...if there was some crisis tomorrow, Russia can deploy in a matter of 2-3 days something like 100 000-200 000 men while according to some analysts, it would take Nato several months to do the same

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    Russian army now two and half million,
    200 000 can be thrown since one end of country in another for floor day

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun May 10, 2015 6:49 am

    An interesting hypothesis from the Defence Update analysis


    The APC carries a smaller remotely-operated turret (2), mounting a single 14.5 mm heavy machine gun (14.5mm or 12.7mm ??)

    The vehicle retains the same active protection system ‘ring’ used on the BMP, but does not include the heavier Afghanit the BMP uses.

    Instead, it’s infra-red spotlight (4) is mounted at a higher level, and can serve both as a forward looking counter-measure and a signalling element, displaying numerical symbols backward, thus enabling communications with the infantry squad or other vehicles without relying on radio communications (similar to using flags).

    If coupled to the laser warning system on the vehicle, such a device could act as an unaided ‘blue force identification’ mechanism, responding to laser signals with a coded message. It would probably operate in visible and thermal bands, enabling both day and night operation.

    click

       


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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun May 10, 2015 7:00 am

    Cyberspec wrote:An interesting hypothesis from the Defence Update analysis
    The APC carries a smaller remotely-operated turret (2), mounting a single 14.5 mm heavy machine gun (14.5mm or 12.7mm ??)

    The vehicle retains the same active protection system ‘ring’ used on the BMP, but does not include the heavier Afghanit the BMP uses.

    Instead, it’s infra-red spotlight (4) is mounted at a higher level, and can serve both as a forward looking counter-measure and a signalling element, displaying numerical symbols backward, thus enabling communications with the infantry squad or other vehicles without relying on radio communications (similar to using flags).

    If coupled to the laser warning system on the vehicle, such a device could act as an unaided ‘blue force identification’ mechanism, responding to laser signals with a coded message. It would probably operate in visible and thermal bands, enabling both day and night operation.

    click


    It is 12.7 mm.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  GarryB on Sun May 10, 2015 1:01 pm

    All that it takes to put Russia in real problems is that US and its anti Russian alliance send 30,000 strong Special forces ,armed to the teeth with all modern NATO weapons ,
    including long precision range artillery , NATO tanks and thousands of modern top attack anti tank weapons like SPike or Javeline ,to put the rebels in serious trouble and over run their positions. Since they are mostly using old weapons and old tanks.

    Russia has no stake in the conflict... if US forces take all of the Ukraine then that is no problem for Russia... the Ukraine has been anti russia for some time... so US occupied Ukraine wont be much difference.

    There is plenty Russia could do from arming rebels, through to simply stating that US interference and occupation of Ukraine will lead to Russia withdrawing from the New Start Treaty and the INF treaty and that Russia will start making new nuclear warheads at a rate of a few hundred a year to ensure the security of Russia.

    Any attempt to retake the Crimea would be an attack on Russia which would lead to full retaliation up to and including nuclear weapons.

    The US can also arm chechens with modern weapons or OverRun tajikistan with re-deployed
    ISIS mercenaries..

    Russia could do the equivalent... arm native americans, mexicans, al quada... and fully support independence causes in Europe like Scotland, the basque separatists etc etc. Even old MANPADS are quite effective... as are ATGMs.

    Russia needs Armata tanks this year.. at least a couple of hundred.. and not in 2018.

    What Russia does not need is half tested prototypes in service when they are not ready yet...

    Now is when they need them.. You also have the Syria war.. that last information says a major war will start soon there ,with NATO vs Syria.

    Rubbish... they may never need them... and for Syria the upgraded T-72BM3s will be excellent with very good communications equipment and thermal sights...

    Russia is on a state of war and they act as if.. nothing happens and the war is not against them.

    For all its strength the west is actually rather weak when it comes to opposing nuclear powers... in the end they will huff and puff and do very little.

    Russia can support Syria with all sorts of new presents and test all sorts of new weapons in Syria... it has plenty of potential... likely once Iraq and Iran have dealt with ISIS on their territory they might be pursuaded to assist Syria with its ISIS problem.

    You just need to calm down Vann.... the US sending 30,000 spec forces to the Ukraine will just get a lot of them killed.

    An interesting hypothesis from the Defence Update analysis

    It is Kord... 12.7mm.

    The numbers is just replication of old Soviet system of identification using rear facing lights with stencilled numbers for ID of unit.


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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  alexZam on Thu May 14, 2015 1:06 am

    Ok. Got something useful...



    http://vk.com/tankspub?z=photo-79534_36 ... 8945_51180

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  alexZam on Thu May 14, 2015 1:14 am

    by Andrey Kryuchenko again..













    .

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  Book. on Thu May 14, 2015 7:32 am

    alexZam wrote:Ok. Got something useful...


    It is like Bmp 3

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu May 14, 2015 10:59 am

    Book. wrote:
    alexZam wrote:Ok. Got something useful...


    It is like Bmp 3

    Reversed rolling train, on new chassis and hull. Engine mounted in front...

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  George1 on Thu May 14, 2015 12:33 pm

    we expect to see in the future the mortar carrier version of Boomerang, and the light tank version of Kurganetz-25

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu May 14, 2015 4:47 pm

    If such a large vehicle can only carry 6-8 troops respectively then there is some large waste of space, given the unmanned turrets should be more compact. The much smaller BMP-1 could carry 8 soldiers while the even tinier M113 could carry 10, or also a 105mm howitzer. If the number of passengers is true this is clearly a heavy troop carrying capacity downgrade.

    Also why wasn't fitting an AGL considered for both the IFV and the APC? The BTR-80 can easily be quipped with a 30mm one while the BMP-2 berezhok already has one integrated. Not keeping such a weapon on the new generation platform is very dissapointing.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu May 14, 2015 4:59 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If such a large vehicle can only carry 6-8 troops respectively then there is some large waste of space, given the unmanned turrets should be more compact. The much smaller BMP-1 could carry 8 soldiers while the even tinier M113 could carry 10, or also a 105mm howitzer. If the number of passengers is true this is clearly a heavy troop carrying capacity downgrade.

    Also why wasn't fitting an AGL considered for both the IFV and the APC? The BTR-80 can easily be quipped with a 30mm one while the BMP-2 berezhok already has one integrated. Not keeping such a weapon on the new generation platform is very dissapointing.

    Understand that the K-25 is a completely different paradigm. It is better protected, and the troops firepower, individual protection and thus total supplies has dramatically grown. Never mind that the troops need to be able to haul more people on a pinch etc. Having To reload the 4 9M133's means 4 more tubes at least in the hull. That takes place, more ammo takes place etc...

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Thu May 14, 2015 5:05 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    KomissarBojanchev wrote:If such a large vehicle can only carry 6-8 troops respectively then there is some large waste of space, given the unmanned turrets should be more compact. The much smaller BMP-1 could carry 8 soldiers while the even tinier M113 could carry 10, or also a 105mm howitzer. If the number of passengers is true this is clearly a heavy troop carrying capacity downgrade.

    Also why wasn't fitting an AGL considered for both the IFV and the APC? The BTR-80 can easily be quipped with a 30mm one while the BMP-2 berezhok already has one integrated. Not keeping such a weapon on the new generation platform is very dissapointing.

    Understand that the K-25 is a completely different paradigm. It is better protected, and the troops firepower, individual protection and thus total supplies has dramatically grown. Never mind that the troops need to be able to haul more people on a pinch etc. Having To reload the 4 9M133's means 4 more tubes at least in the hull. That takes place, more ammo takes place etc...
    If there truly is a missile reloading system in the K-15 then I agree, but the APC variant has anemic armament that surely doesn't require much space. 8 troops is in the IFV department, APCs(especially tracked) should have a capacity of at least 10 passengers.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  flamming_python on Thu May 14, 2015 5:24 pm

    Yep I agree, the APC's carrying capacity is amoebic, if the report of a 8-man capacity is true then nothing justifies it. The turret doesn't (or shouldn't) go into the hull; all that space should be free, and the actual vehicle is high, long and wide.
    Should carry 10-11 at the very LEAST. That's to say a full squad and preferably extra space for 1-2 as well and/or ammo/supplies.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu May 14, 2015 6:33 pm

    8 men with the Ratnik equipment and gear need as much space as 10-12 men with the old gear.

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    Re: Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

    Post  AJ-47 on Thu May 14, 2015 7:23 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Yep I agree, the APC's carrying capacity is amoebic, if the report of a 8-man capacity is true then nothing justifies it. The turret doesn't (or shouldn't) go into the hull; all that space should be free, and the actual vehicle is high, long and wide.
    Should carry 10-11 at the very LEAST. That's to say a full squad and preferably extra space for 1-2 as well and/or ammo/supplies.

    In the West the IFV carry 1 squad of dismount soldiers and that between 7-9 soldiers. so 8 is ok.

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