Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #1

By a_andreich.

And where are the launchers for the top attack APS? And the "low" angle doesn't cover the top of the vehicle.
I am disappointed.

they are revealing to us what they want us to see... what makes you think just because you don't see it it wont be there?

I seriously can't understand why they didn't implement an anti top attack APS system.

What makes you so sure they haven't?

"Top attack" @ 00:45.

Hahaha... that is the solution... a big sheet of cardboard with black and white target squares that spike and javelin can easily see and target instead of the tank...

And whole APS system is a big piece of shit! That's it, no need to defend useless crap.
The most important part of the new vehicle family was the APS system and they failed miserably.

If you can point out the APS system on the new vehicles and describe exactly how they function then we can take your word perhaps. If you can't how do we know you know what you are talking about?

The Russians have rather more experience with APS than any other country on the planet... they tested Drozd in the 1980s in Afghanistan and are onto something like their 6th system now.

Money robbed - smoke grenade launchers sold as soft kill APS.

Someone speculates about smoke grenade launchers and all of a sudden it is corruption at the highest level... did Putin do it? TR-1 is that you?

Vann you should retract and appologize the personal attacks/insults at once, i probably not entirely agree with Strizh's assessments either but you are disturbing what otherwise is a very interesting discussion with no insults that i have seen until yours. If not i will report you.

Actually I was thinking what Vann was thinking... to use top attack mode both Spike and Javelin need a lock... something a TV guided missile (Spike) wont get through smoke or even dust on the battlefield and an IR guided missile like Javelin wont get with a decent thermal and radar obscurant suit (ie Nakidka-2). As found in Afghanistan most of the time Javelin wont get a lock because most targets aren't hot tanks, so it needs to be fired in manual mode which makes it a rolls royce pulling a plow.

The tank has:
360° coverage: with tubes + smoke grenade launchers
Top coverage: no tubes + smoke grenade launchers

That means (in any case) that the top is less defended than the sides as on top we lack the tubes.

Assuming that several days out from the actual parade it is even going to be fitted with all essential elements. They stated that armata and kurganets and boomerang would be in the parade... they didn't say they would reveal all their secrets and show absolutely everything.

Strizh wrote:

I seriously can't understand why they didn't implement an anti top attack APS system. And no the radars on the T15 are to low for top attack weapons, I've watched some videos and the incoming missiles are almost vertical - 80°.

A huge disappointment  

that steep of an angle of descent is impossibru. for that to happen the missile must fly high until just above the target, maintaining LOS, and then suddenly pulling insane Gs into a descent. and my amateur eyes tell me these missiles arent made for that kind of turning performance.

In any case these top attack weapons are incredibly slow... if the old systems could stop an RPG-7 warhead travelling at almost 400m/s horizontally... what makes anyone think they can't intercept a threat travelling at half that speed in the vertical?

Drozd was not precise... it was just a bomb launched toward the incoming threat and exploded firing dense shrapnel sideways and forwards. Arena was basically the same but the munition was launched up and it directed a dense pattern of shrapnel down and forward so any troops nearby would be safer as the shrapnel was blown from up high directly down into the ground... intercepting the incoming threat on the way.

Boomerang back door... Thickness.

(1785Кб, 2560x1920)

alexZam wrote:Boomerang back door... Thickness.

(1785Кб, 2560x1920)

Alex, a lot of your pics seem to be deleted

alexZam wrote:Boomerang back door... Thickness.

(1785Кб, 2560x1920)

Very good POV. Excellent.

Finally, a top shot of Kurganets-25

(273Кб, 950x713)

 

alexZam wrote:Finally, a top shot of Kurganets-25

(273Кб, 950x713)

 

Alex,

Your pictures are still not showing up.

I right clicked on the x (in black) that was showing up, copied the URL and uploaded it on Tinypic. Here is the result that everybody will be able to see.

TheArmenian wrote:Alex,

Your pictures are still not showing up.

I right clicked on the x (in black) that was showing up, copied the URL and uploaded it on Tinypic. Here is the result that everybody will be able to see.

I havent such problem for some reason ... well - enjoy

TheArmenian wrote:

alexZam wrote:Finally, a top shot of Kurganets-25

(273Кб, 950x713)

 

Alex,

Your pictures are still not showing up.

I right clicked on the x (in black) that was showing up, copied the URL and uploaded it on Tinypic. Here is the result that everybody will be able to see.

I don't know what sometimes going on, bro. Just a few complained far.. Most likely there are short times when 2ch.hk is downlinking and people might experience such problems. Or may be because this forum sometimes mishandles photos of huge size. I do apologize for your frustration, buddy. Just report which ones sometimes don't show - we all will try to reupload it somewhere else one more time. The reason why I'm taking photos out of 2ch sometimes - because they seem to receive photos faster than a anyone else. They quickly share them between each other, although level of discussion is ultra low usually there (too much of 'zealous Ukrainian trolls). So, the speed of receiving photos here, in my opinion, would help to attract more quality users to RD forum. Hopefully, more people like professor Lokos and such.

Sorry again, bro. *handshake*

Thanks Alex.
Keep up the good work.

So what kind of gun is that 30mm?

Do the official GUN specification of all versions of T-15 and Kuganets have been released?
Will it be 30mm? less ? 45mm? 100mm? or higher?

Vann7 wrote:

So what kind of gun is that 30mm?  

Do the official GUN specification of all versions of T-15 and Kuganets  have been released?
Will it be 30mm? less ?  45mm?  100mm?  or higher?

2A42 ... the diagrams shown by Werewolf however point to a different gun cradle architecture or completely different gun all together.

oh wow.. this is stupid.. the armata indeed should be called experimental
hardware...The Developers of armata are saying that if everything goes well with the trials,that the serial production of Kuganets will start in 2017-2018.    



SO forget about any discussion of its appearance and features ,the final armata
might change drastically from the models we saw.. that are nothing more than prototypes.
and the final armata could change.  

If they waiting 3 years to start mass producing Armata , they should fire themselves and
more competent people replace them.. a tank should not take 3 years to fucking test it.. not even 1 year.

Kurganets combat vehicles may start in 2017-2018
http://tass.ru/en/russia/793643

Russia is near the brink of a major war , and is at times like this that Russia should kick
their Asses big time to get their army fully eqipped,and accelerate their modernization program.

Currently shown with a 30mm but future vehicles (IFV) will need a gun able to penetrate enemy IFVS and even at the moment 30mm is not enough against current western IFVs.

A 45mm and a 57mm high velocity guns are being developed... TR-1 posted that the 45mm gun has won, which suggests future IFVs of all the vehicle families will be fitted with 45mm guns...

It will take some time to produce and perfect the various vehicles and testing will take a while too.

The electronic training systems the Russians bought from the Germans and finished themselves should make developing tactics and training manuals much easier and actually possible very soon... without even having the real hardware ready or in service...

If they waiting 3 years to start mass producing Armata , they should fire themselves and
more competent people replace them.. a tank should not take 3 years to fucking test it.. not even
1 year.

Don't over react Vann... this isn't a tank... it is every damn vehicle in an entire brigade and they have to test them all to make sure they work together... in one year you get time to test it in one summer and one autumn and one spring and one winter... and I really doubt that will be enough considering they are testing the integration of new net centric systems that have to inter operate with each other and other platforms including Havocs and Hokums and artillery and UAVs and indeed Armata, kurganets, boomerang, and Typhoon.

That is an enormous task... how many years does it take for Microsoft to develop something as simple as an operating system... and they still fuck it up...

We are talking about new versions of weapons, new ammo, new sensors, and new systems like new armour types, new versions of Arena, Shtora, ERA, DIRCMs, MMW radar etc etc...

being on the brink of war with NATO means tactical nuclear weapons... not armour.

Someone probably posted about that before, but I noticed that the Boomerang's front hatch periscopes only face front and left.
No periscope facing right...

Interview with deputy general director of corporation "Uralvagonzavod" Vyacheslav Halitov.

Armata : http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/1954916?page=2
Kuragnets: http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/1954916?page=3

Boomerang walkaround :

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/afv/after_1950/btr_bumerang/

Photoshop skills to "light up" a bit:

The gun is 30mm 2A42 with new casing. Test shooting with and without gun barrel casing have been performed and showed that this casing reduces due the stiffness which increases grouping of shots. You can see the huge effect on Terminator BMPT how the guns are flexing while shooting due the "poor" mounting. The gun on Kamov helicopters has almost no flexing due the good mounting.

Walkaround of Boomerang APC. Very detailed.

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/v/walkarounds/afv/after_1950/btr_bumerang/?g2_highlightId=726609

Someone probably posted about that before, but I noticed that the Boomerang's front hatch periscopes only face front and left.
No periscope facing right...

They will have 360 degree view from roof and turret mounted cameras, the actual vision blocks in front and beside will just add to their vision.