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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:45 am

    kvs wrote:http://www.russianspaceweb.com/angara7.html

    Angara 7 variants: up to 41 tons to LEO.    Anyone trying to claim this can be worked into a heavy lifter is an idiot.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20141208172221/http://www.russianspaceweb.com:80/angara100.html

    Angara 100:

    The Angara-100 was a 2005 proposal by Khrunichev to build a heavy-lift launch vehicle for NASA's Vision for Space Exploration. The rocket would consist of four RD-170-powered boosters, an RD-180-powered core stage, and a cryogenic upper stage using a modified Energia RD-0120 engine, the RD-0122. Its payload capacity to LEO would be in excess of 100 tons.

    Wow, that's like the Energia design.   Key element: RD-170 powered modules.

    Wut?

    So Angara super heavy all along was...... Soyuz-5?

    Time loop people lol1
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    kvs

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  kvs on Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:52 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    kvs wrote:http://www.russianspaceweb.com/angara7.html

    Angara 7 variants: up to 41 tons to LEO.    Anyone trying to claim this can be worked into a heavy lifter is an idiot.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20141208172221/http://www.russianspaceweb.com:80/angara100.html

    Angara 100:

    The Angara-100 was a 2005 proposal by Khrunichev to build a heavy-lift launch vehicle for NASA's Vision for Space Exploration. The rocket would consist of four RD-170-powered boosters, an RD-180-powered core stage, and a cryogenic upper stage using a modified Energia RD-0120 engine, the RD-0122. Its payload capacity to LEO would be in excess of 100 tons.

    Wow, that's like the Energia design.   Key element: RD-170 powered modules.

    Wut?

    So Angara super heavy all along was...... Soyuz-5?

    Time loop people lol1

    It is clear that a common concept driven by economic considerations emerged in Russia over 10 years ago. Now they are
    actually going to build it. I hope they don't futz around with an RD-180 core stage. Just use one of the RD-170 modules.
    The second core stage can be a liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen job powered by the RD-0122. The payload to LEO would
    be over 120 tons.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:10 pm

    kvs wrote:..........................
    It is clear that a common concept driven by economic considerations emerged in Russia over 10 years ago.   Now they are
    actually going to build it.   I hope they don't futz around with an RD-180 core stage.   Just use one of the RD-170 modules.
    The second core stage can be a liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen job powered by the RD-0122.   The payload to LEO would
    be over 120 tons.

    Basically, they ran out of money so they axed original super-heavy and went with Angara-5P. Now super-heavy is back on.

    I found this: http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1918663.html

    Machine translation garbled it up as usual but basically Krunichev won contract to develop Angara and wasted time lobbying for Proton instead.

    In the meantime Angara 1.2 competitor Soyuz-2 flew six months before Angara did.

    And while Energia lost out on initial contract for super-heavy rocked they did not give up. They continued working on it and has now resurfaced as Soyuz-5 thus stomping out Krunichev's prospects for developing proper super-heavy on larger core and borderline killing rest of it's lineup.

    This is exactly like Mi-28/Ka-50 situation from several decades ago. Mi-28 lost the contract but they did not give up and kept working on the platform while Kamov was sitting on it's ass. Fast forward two decades and now you have Mi-28 being go-to attack helicopter while Ka-50 is forgotten and Ka-52 is saved solely by the Navy.

    Same thing happened here. Energia did not give up and kept working on their own. In time opportunity presented itself (partly in the form of Krunichev's stupidity).

    I am so glad Federation is being developed by Energia. They definitely know how to get things done unlike some.



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    Rmf

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Rmf on Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:55 pm

    Singular_Transform wrote:US has 12 launch system in use/ under dev bz wiki
    can russia afford 7,8,9 ? soyuz ,proton, soyuz -light, zenit, angara ,sunkar,phoenix,in many versions + and many light rockets...

    and interesting link new zealand is about to launch rocket for small payloads with 3d printed engines.
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Singular_Transform on Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:04 pm

    Rmf wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:US has 12 launch system in use/ under dev bz wiki
    can russia afford 7,8,9 ? soyuz ,proton, soyuz -light, zenit, angara ,sunkar,phoenix,in many versions + and many light rockets...

    and interesting link new zealand is about to launch rocket for small payloads with 3d printed engines.

    That is good , I know a few guys who works in the company making 3D printers. Always good if someone buys they products.


    Russia can afford it.

    The US population was slightly bigger when it conducted the apollo program AND mayor weapon programs .
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:45 pm

    Rmf wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:US has 12 launch system in use/ under dev bz wiki
    can russia afford 7,8,9 ? soyuz ,proton, soyuz -light, zenit, angara ,sunkar,phoenix,in many versions + and many light rockets...
    ..............

    Only ones left soon will be Soyuz-2, Angara (1 and 5) and Soyuz-5.

    Old Soyuz, Proton and other stuff will be retired (eg. Moloniya-M was permanently ditched the moment Soyuz-2 went live)

    Sunkar and Fenix are just different names for Soyuz-5 which is Zenit derivative (that will also be ditched the moment SeaLaunch gets first Soyuz-5 delivered)

    And man rated Soyuz rockets will be retired once Federation is up and running.

    So just 3 types of rockets. They could trim it down to 2 if they wanted to but Soyuz is just too good and Angara-1 is there by default simply due to being component of Angara-5.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  OminousSpudd on Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:07 am

    Rmf wrote:
    Singular_Transform wrote:US has 12 launch system in use/ under dev bz wiki
    can russia afford 7,8,9 ? soyuz ,proton, soyuz -light, zenit, angara ,sunkar,phoenix,in many versions + and many light rockets...

    and interesting link new zealand is about to launch rocket for small payloads with 3d printed engines.
    We'll actually have to get it into space first...
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  George1 on Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:40 pm

    Russia accelerates work on developing hydrogen engine for super-heavy carrier rocket

    The engine will increase the lift capacity of the Angara-A5 carrier rocket to 37 tonnes, and the engine will be subsequently used in the third stage of a super-heavy carrier rocket

    BISHKEK, June 8. /TASS/. Russia has started developing a hydrogen engine for the Angara-A5V carrier rocket with the increased lift capacity and also for a super-heavy launcher, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin told TASS on Thursday.

    "A decision has been made to accelerate work on a super-heavy-class rocket. In this regard, R&D work has already been launched and work will begin on the RD-0150 hydrogen engine," Rogozin said.

    According to Rogozin, this engine as part of the third stage increases the lift capacity of the Angara-A5 carrier rocket in its Angara-A5V modification to 37 tonnes and the engine will be subsequently used in the third stage of a super-heavy carrier rocket.

    The vice-premier compared the Angara-A5 upgrade to the Angara-A5V version with the inclusion of a motor vehicle into a different category.

    "Speaking in automobile terms, this is a heavy truck."

    Rogozin earlier said that the Russian president had assigned State Space Corporation Roscosmos the task to accelerate the work on creating a super-heavy rocket through the development of the relevant technologies.

    Roscosmos Head Igor Komarov said earlier that the launch complex for the super-heavy rocket at the Vostochny cosmodrome was planned to be built by 2030. The Soyuz-5.1 new medium-class rocket being developed under the Phoenix R&D work is expected to become the first stage for the super-heavy launcher.

    Development strategy envisaged a Soyuz-5 launch from the Vostochny cosmodrome for 2034 and a super-heavy rocket launch for 2035.


    More:
    http://tass.com/science/950504


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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:52 pm

    Russia to launch production of hydrogen-powered stage for Angara heavy rocket

    The current state program does not envisage this task, so the production will go beyond 2025



    MOSCOW, August 25. /TASS/. The work to develop the hydrogen-powered stage for the Angara-A5V carrier rocket with the increased lift capacity will begin after 2025, acting CEO of the Khrunichev Space Center Alexei Varochko told TASS on Friday.

    "The current state program does not envisage this task. It goes beyond the year 2025. But if we start dealing with this issue only after 2025, then we will again lose time. On paper, these technologies should be ready by 2025. The design idea should work ahead of current plans for years to come," he said.

    Only experimental design work is currently under way in this field.

    "Much in this matter will be linked with the place of the construction of factories for the production of hydrogen and the methods its delivery to cosmodromes. We need to solve the issue in a way to ensure that we don’t have to build two similar factories in the Far East and in Plesetsk. We need to proceed from the fact that the state cannot work for the production of only technological compounds. We need to work on the issue of minimizing the technological chain," the Center’s head said.

    It was reported earlier that the Russian space industry planned to switch to the development of the Angara-A5V heavy-class carrier rocket with the increased lifting capacity after completing work on the Angara-A5M rocket whose first launch was scheduled for 2021.

    The rocket’s hydrogen-powered version will be created by way of replacing the URM-2 oxygen-kerosene module of the Angara-A5M rocket with the oxygen-hydrogen stage. The Angara-A5V should be able to deliver up to 37 tonnes to the low near-Earth orbit. Hydrogen technologies are eventually planned to be used in the third stage of the super-heavy carrier rocket.

    Russia’s State Space Corporation Roscosmos published its strategy through 2030 in late March 2017, noting that the flight tests of the Angara-A5V heavy rocket were scheduled for 2027-2028. It was also reported that the rocket’s development would cost 37 billion rubles ($625 million) while the entire program of creating the Angara-A5V launcher would require 150 billion rubles ($2.5 billion), considering construction and the work to build the relevant ground-based infrastructure.

    The plans to develop the Angara-A5V rocket were unveiled in March 2015, when the scientific and technical council of the Federal Space Agency gave instructions to work out a preliminary design of a new carrier rocket based on the Angara launcher for organizing piloted flights to the Moon. The first launches of Angara-1.2PP and Angara-A5 rockets took place in 2014. The next launch of the heavy rocket is planned for 2018.


    More:
    http://tass.com/science/961997


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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:53 pm

    Russian space center switching from Proton to Angara heavy rocket production russia

    Angara is a family of Russian carrier rockets of different classes, which have been developed to replace Proton-M and Rokot launchers

    MOSCOW, August 25. /TASS/. The Khrunichev Space Center is switching over from the production of Proton-M carrier rockets to the output of Angara-A5 and Angara-A5M launchers, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said during his visit to the enterprise on Friday.

    "The enterprise is by its totality both significant and strategically important, considering that this enterprise is completing, largely speaking, the production of Proton-M carrier rockets in the near-term perspective and is beginning the output of and the transition to the series of the Angara-A5 rocket and its modernized Angara-A5M version as its trials are nearing completion," Rogozin said.

    By decision of Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Angara-A5 carrier rocket must be launched from the Vostochny spaceport in Russia’s Far East by 2021, he noted.

    By this time, all the construction works, the delivery of technological equipment, its assembly and tests should have been completed, the vice-premier stressed.

    Correspondingly, similar and no less complex works should be conducted with the rocket as well to ensure that it can take off from the Vostochny cosmodrome by the end of 2021, Rogozin said.

    The Angara is a family of Russian carrier rockets of different classes, from the light to the heavy versions, that have been developed to replace Proton-M and Rokot launchers. As compared to them, the new family uses environmentally friendly fuel components.

    So far, only two launches have taken place, with both of them from the Plesetsk cosmodrome in north Russia: a light Angara-1.2PP rocket blasted off in July 2014 and a heavy Angara-A5 took off in December 2014.


    More:
    http://tass.com/science/962034


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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:23 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian space center switching from Proton to Angara heavy rocket production  russia

    Angara is a family of Russian carrier rockets of different classes, which have been developed to replace Proton-M and Rokot launchers

    MOSCOW, August 25. /TASS/. The Khrunichev Space Center is switching over from the production of Proton-M carrier rockets to the output of Angara-A5 and Angara-A5M launchers, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said during his visit to the enterprise on Friday.
    ..............

    HELL TO THE YES, WHORES FROM KRUNICHEV ARE FINALLY MADE TO BEND THE KNEE!!!    thumbsup   russia

    Looks like the abomination that is Proton-M will finally be scraped, several decades too late but finally it's happening (never forget Phobos Grunt!)

    Thanks for this news George!!! love




    Add to that the hydrogen upper stage they announced and it's utility just went up significantly. With 37 tonnes it will have 15 tonnes more capacity than both Proton-M​ and Space Shuttle and 8 tonnes more than Delta IV Heavy.

    With this in play Roskosmos will have proper wide range cargo workhorse.

    They will still need Soyuz-5 for high value deep space and manned missions but it's definitely superior solution. You don't want to put people in glorified cargo truck with hydrogen stage and thin margins of error.
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:01 am

    PapaDragon wrote:Looks like the abomination that is Proton-M will finally be scraped, several decades too late but finally it's happening (never forget Phobos Grunt!)

    Phobos Grunt was launched by Zenit. Its failure was 100% a payload issue, launch to LEO was a success.
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:22 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:Looks like the abomination that is Proton-M will finally be scraped, several decades too late but finally it's happening (never forget Phobos Grunt!)

    Phobos Grunt was launched by Zenit.  Its failure was 100% a payload issue, launch to LEO was a success.

    In that case just add 20 other fuckups related to Proton. 

    Briz-M was cause of failure, that's why I mistook it for Proton, those 2 usually come in package.

    Either way just same old problem of trying to live forever off of legacy Soviet platforms.

    Just move on already...

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  T-47 on Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:22 pm

    [quote="PapaDragon"]
    Briz-M was cause of failure, that's why I mistook it for Proton, those 2 usually come in package.[quote]

    Umm isn't Angara also use Briz-M and Briz-KM at upper stage?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:03 pm

    T-47 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Briz-M was cause of failure, that's why I mistook it for Proton, those 2 usually come in package.


    Umm isn't Angara also use Briz-M and Briz-KM at upper stage?

    Yes, in some variants at least

    One more Soviet leftover to replace
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:59 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    T-47 wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Briz-M was cause of failure, that's why I mistook it for Proton, those 2 usually come in package.


    Umm isn't Angara also use Briz-M and Briz-KM at upper stage?

    Yes, in some variants at least

    One more Soviet leftover to replace

    Why replace Briz if it works? Admittedly they had a few failed missions attributed to Briz, but these were QA/QC build issues, not design. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Briz, and if Khrunichev has finally gotten their sh*t sorted out, what is the driver to throw it away and spend money developing a replacement?

    Do you want to throw away the kerolox Block-D family as well?

    BTW Briz-M was not the cause of failure of Phobos Grunt. Mission loss seems to be have due to computer failure/reboot leaving the vehicle in a safe node, but with the X-band antenna not yet deployed, there was no way to contact the vehicle to command a recovery. The mission failed because of a lack of rad-hard electronics and inadequate scenario planning & software testing.
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:28 am

    George1 wrote:Russia accelerates work on developing hydrogen engine for super-heavy carrier rocket

    The engine will increase the lift capacity of the Angara-A5 carrier rocket to 37 tonnes, and the engine will be subsequently used in the third stage of a super-heavy carrier rocket

    BISHKEK, June 8. /TASS/. Russia has started developing a hydrogen engine for the Angara-A5V carrier rocket with the increased lift capacity and also for a super-heavy launcher, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin told TASS on Thursday.

    "A decision has been made to accelerate work on a super-heavy-class rocket. In this regard, R&D work has already been launched and work will begin on the RD-0150 hydrogen engine," Rogozin said.

    According to Rogozin, this engine as part of the third stage increases the lift capacity of the Angara-A5 carrier rocket in its Angara-A5V modification to 37 tonnes and the engine will be subsequently used in the third stage of a super-heavy carrier rocket.

    The vice-premier compared the Angara-A5 upgrade to the Angara-A5V version with the inclusion of a motor vehicle into a different category.

    "Speaking in automobile terms, this is a heavy truck."

    Rogozin earlier said that the Russian president had assigned State Space Corporation Roscosmos the task to accelerate the work on creating a super-heavy rocket through the development of the relevant technologies.

    Roscosmos Head Igor Komarov said earlier that the launch complex for the super-heavy rocket at the Vostochny cosmodrome was planned to be built by 2030. The Soyuz-5.1 new medium-class rocket being developed under the Phoenix R&D work is expected to become the first stage for the super-heavy launcher.

    Development strategy envisaged a Soyuz-5 launch from the Vostochny cosmodrome for 2034 and a super-heavy rocket launch for 2035.

    More:
    http://tass.com/science/950504

    Can this be considered to be official confirmation that the Angara-5V is not cancelled?   Playing devils advocate however, Rogozin is quite fond on making sweeping statements, and development of a hydolox engine doesn't necessarily mean an Angara-compatible U/S will follow...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:47 am

    Big_Gazza. wrote:
    Why replace Briz if it works?  Admittedly they had a few failed missions attributed to Briz, but these were QA/QC build issues, not design.  There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Briz, and if Khrunichev has finally gotten their sh*t sorted out, what is the driver to throw it away and spend money developing a replacement?

    Do you want to throw away the kerolox Block-D family as well?

    BTW Briz-M was not the cause of failure of Phobos Grunt.  Mission loss seems to be have due to computer failure/reboot leaving the vehicle in a safe node, but with the X-band antenna not yet deployed, there was no way to contact the vehicle to command a recovery.  The mission failed because of a lack of rad-hard electronics and inadequate scenario planning & software testing.

    If they got their crap in order then good but fact remains that if they keep quality standards the way they were they will waste more money on lost payload than it would cost them to develop something decent.

    It's time to get their heads out of their asses. They are doing a lot of stuff right lately but we all know how easy it is to throw space program on the back burner (remember 2014?)

    Can this be considered to be official confirmation that the Angara-5V is not cancelled?   Playing devils advocate however, Rogozin is quite fond on making sweeping statements, and development of a hydolox engine doesn't necessarily mean an Angara-compatible U/S will follow...

    Man rated Angara-5V is definitely cancelled. Cargo version of A5 with hydrogen stage however is apparently back in play, boost in payload capacity is too good to pass up it seems.

    But it won't be super-heavy rocket, just heavy.

    They are getting lots of stuff back in rotation. In pre-internet era I would assume it's PR BS but now I am inclined to think that they are throwing some unexpected cash on the projects.
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:32 pm

    Russian Khrunichev Space Center switching from Proton to Angara heavy rocket production

    More:

    MOSCOW, August 25. /TASS/. The Khrunichev Space Center is switching over from the production of Proton-M carrier rockets to the output of Angara-A5 and Angara-A5M launchers, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said during his visit to the enterprise on Friday.
    "The enterprise is by its totality both significant and strategically important, considering that this enterprise is completing, largely speaking, the production of Proton-M carrier rockets in the near-term perspective and is beginning the output of and the transition to the series of the Angara-A5 rocket and its modernized Angara-A5M version as its trials are nearing completion," Rogozin said.

    By decision of Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Angara-A5 carrier rocket must be launched from the Vostochny spaceport in Russia’s Far East by 2021, he noted.
    By this time, all the construction works, the delivery of technological equipment, its assembly and tests should have been completed, the vice-premier stressed.
    Correspondingly, similar and no less complex works should be conducted with the rocket as well to ensure that it can take off from the Vostochny cosmodrome by the end of 2021, Rogozin said.
    The Angara is a family of Russian carrier rockets of different classes, from the light to the heavy versions, that have been developed to replace Proton-M and Rokot launchers. As compared to them, the new family uses environmentally friendly fuel components.
    So far, only two launches have taken place, with both of them from the Plesetsk cosmodrome in north Russia: a light Angara-1.2PP rocket blasted off in July 2014 and a heavy Angara-A5 took off in December 2014.


    More:
    http://tass.com/science/962034


    And here about Angara 5M model



    The 5M variant to fix Angara-5's ills

    In 2017, Russian space officials identified another version of the Angara-5 rocket, designated Angara-5M, which was intended to address the latest obstacles on the way of the new-generation rocket family to the commercial market.

    http://www.russianspaceweb.com/angara5m.html

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    kvs

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  kvs on Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:15 am

    I wouldn't dance about the Khrunichev decision to retire Proton production just yet. I hope they have either cleaned out the saboteurs
    working on the Proton production line or just let the staff go. I don't think it is a good idea to re-assign Proton workers to the
    Angara line. We will see exactly the same crash BS all over again. The Proton was essentially never the cause of the crashes.
    In the case of the most spectacular crash, hammering in a key sensor upside down (it was designed to be installed only with one orientation
    and any honest worker would have known this, unless Khrunichev workers are autistic) should have resulted in more than one head rolling.
    I have not heard any follow up and it looks to me like Khrunichev management is the "roof" for the saboteurs.

    If military launches start failing, then emergency measures must be taken to clean out Khrunichev. The top management will need
    to be suspended until they can be cleared and a zero tolerance program for the rest of the workforce implemented. If there is not enough
    evidence to convict, suspects should be fired regardless. Tough sh*t. Special rules need to apply to such companies.
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:37 am

    kvs wrote:I wouldn't dance about the Khrunichev decision to retire Proton production just yet.   I hope they have either cleaned out the saboteurs
    working on the Proton production line or just let the staff go.   I don't think it is a good idea to re-assign Proton workers to the
    Angara line.    We will see exactly the same crash BS all over again.   The Proton was essentially never the cause of the crashes.
    In the case of the most spectacular crash, hammering in a key sensor upside down (it was designed to be installed only with one orientation
    and any honest worker would have known this, unless Khrunichev workers are autistic) should have resulted in more than one head rolling.  
    I have not heard any follow up and it looks to me like Khrunichev management is the "roof" for the saboteurs.

    If military launches start failing, then emergency measures must be taken to clean out Khrunichev.    The top management will need
    to be suspended until they can be cleared and a zero tolerance program for the rest of the workforce implemented.   If there is not enough
    evidence to convict, suspects should be fired regardless.   Tough sh*t.  Special rules need to apply to such companies.

    All true, but for me "By decision of Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Angara-A5 carrier rocket must be launched from the Vostochny spaceport in Russia’s Far East by 2021 means exactly what you said.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:17 am

    They already have a production team and training happening for Angara production at the Omsk plant. So the former Proton workers are going to be either doing something else, laid off or they will continue to make Proton for customers or something else. Moving current workforce (all of them) over to make Angara at an existing plant with already personnel being trained, would make the workforce far too large and bloated. In most cases, I think that they will re-orientate people. I think the Russian government and intelligence agencies are fully aware of the issues, hence why we got the news about it in the first place. I think some people are going to get early retirement and or a boot out the door.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:28 pm

    kvs wrote:I wouldn't dance about the Khrunichev decision to retire Proton production just yet.   I hope they have either cleaned out the saboteurs
    working on the Proton production line or just let the staff go.   I don't think it is a good idea to re-assign Proton workers to the
    Angara line.    We will see exactly the same crash BS all over again.   The Proton was essentially never the cause of the crashes.
    In the case of the most spectacular crash, hammering in a key sensor upside down (it was designed to be installed only with one orientation
    and any honest worker would have known this, unless Khrunichev workers are autistic) should have resulted in more than one head rolling.  
    I have not heard any follow up and it looks to me like Khrunichev management is the "roof" for the saboteurs.

    If military launches start failing, then emergency measures must be taken to clean out Khrunichev.    The top management will need
    to be suspended until they can be cleared and a zero tolerance program for the rest of the workforce implemented.   If there is not enough
    evidence to convict, suspects should be fired regardless.   Tough sh*t.  Special rules need to apply to such companies.


    They can't sabotage Angara and Soyuz-2.1 because self-diagnostic system is getting in the way.

    And they already tried. Remember how inaugural Angara launch was postponed? Valve was not installed properly.

    Ring a bell? Same thing took out several Protons back in a day.

    Diagnostics system caught problem instantly and aborted launch. Someone probably fiddled with rocket in Krunichev prior to delivery to Plasetsk. Rocket was inspected but problem could not be identified by humans. Computer OTOH is a different thing.

    I just hope that military found the wise-ass who did it and fed him his own testicles.

    Sabotaging rocket now requires a lot more then just busting a valve or sensor. They need to take out whole diagnostics and launch system altogether. Fat chance.
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    kvs

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  kvs on Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:24 pm

    I sincerely hope that we have entered a new era of technological suppression of sabotage. But I still believe that
    maggots need to be rooted out. They can bugger on off to their promised land in NATO if they hate Russia so much.
    Those that get sent to a penal colony should do long terms. A combination of active house cleaning and harsh
    punishment will do wonders to improve the situation.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:13 pm

    They just need to have a much better management structure in the company and a method to know who is doing what. Something like a punch clock at a certain area of the facility or a Team Leader who is monitoring his employees and is tasked to give them the task to do their specific job. In this case, it becomes very easy to route out who could be sabotaging the rocket. If a valve was put in wrong by a Dimitri or a Illya, then either Dimitri or Illya gets investigated. If they have been tasked to do this multiple of times and multiple of times they have done it wrong, they are fired.

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