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    Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

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    Vann7
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:07 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:

    ......Bullshit......

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/putin-orders-payment-of-115-to-wwii-veterans/516630.html

    .....More bullshit....


    You just posted Moscow Times as a source... lol1 Laughing Razz  


    how about RT?

    https://www.rt.com/politics/213407-russian-pensions-veterans-baltic/


    Putin is not a bad person.. he is patriotic indeed and he also cares about its people .
    but at the same time he is clueless on his vision of Russia. he don't understand that there is
    no second best option for Russia. it needs to lead in the world in the most important things
    that society wants ,to be taken seriously and create an alliance with Europe.

    Americans dominate
    1)the technology industry
    2)the music industry
    3)the entertainment industry
    4)the business industry
    5)SUperior economy.
    6)controls the banking system
    7) controls the internet.

    how can you compete with that?
    Russia developing more nukes or paying the salaries of pensioners in latvia or
    gas discounts to Europe is not going to help Russia in any fucking way to stop
    their eternal conflict with Americans. Russia becoming an absolute leader in technology and or Space can make Americans re-think their policies. and it will also make Europeans re-think that perhaps they don't really needs so destructive relations with American ,when there is Russia.


    The #1 issue , the core of ALL Russian major problems ,is precisely is lack of leadership in the world. Americans only respect nations that they can find very important for their own development. The ones that they feel it doesn't needs to exist in the world is the ones that get
    their "freedom fighters" and "democracy revolutions".  Russia could save a LOT of money in security and nation defense by simply creating better relations with the west. and buy their support not with words or reminders of how powerful are Russian nukes. but by leading in the world with many things that they have a chance to lead.. in technology and in space.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total

    PapaDragon
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:25 am

    sepheronx wrote:Just put Vann on the ignore list.  The guy hasn't contributed anything other than a whole page worth of bullshit for nearly everything.  Both him and RMF have terrible reading comprehension issues as well since a heavy rocket wasn't cancelled.  As I and yourself have pointed out multiple times via link.

    So I gave up on the two guys really.

    Good advice, will do thumbsup

    Vann7
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Vann7 on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:50 am

    sepheronx wrote:Just put Vann on the ignore list.  The guy hasn't contributed anything other than a whole page worth of bullshit for nearly everything.  Both him and RMF have terrible reading comprehension issues as well since a heavy rocket wasn't cancelled.  As I and yourself have pointed out multiple times via link.

    So I gave up on the two guys really.

    So anyone that disagree with you should be banned?  Laughing

    Omg seph , all i have said is that is completely stupid and retarded the decisions
    Russia is taking on its space program. Americans wants to Military space ,this is said
    by their own generals all the times. why should Russia reduce its Space budget ,when Americans are increasing it and openly saying will enhance its space capabilities to dominate it.

    Is that is not a threat of militarization of space and a threat to Russian national security then no
    idea what is. No   Allowing Americans to take the lead in space and dominate it ,will be noting
    but treason. it will be much worse than US missile shield in Russian borders. far worse.

    Space budget create jobs , lots of jobs , in useful things , it also move forward all Russia
    technology and it also helps in the security of their nation and if that was not good enough it
    helps to create lots of business opportunities by attracting business ,it also helps Russia image in the world where it matters in very long term Business . Something that sports CANT do ,neither giving away money for free to veterans in other countries or maintaining rusty soviet ships can do. is common sense . i don't know how Russia reducing its space budget is a good idea in times Americans are trying to isolate it. No

    GarryB
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:20 am

    The imbecile of Putin have no fucking clue of what should be
    the priorities of Russia.

    Yeah... he should just borrow like the whole western world does when there is not enough money... he can always just have more money printed to compensate for that can't he?

    Perhaps his problem is he doesn't have you as an advisor.... spend big money on big rockets because rockets are cool.

    Except for the fact that big rockets are a dead end... they are really only good for flights to the moon and unmanned flights to Mars or Venus. For manned missions to Mars they cannot be made big enough for one launch, so there are going to be multiple launches... and really big rockets use a lot of fuel so the nuclear rockets they are developing make rather more sense for actual propulsion from earth to mars.

    So lets evaluate... there is no rocket big enough to go to mars in one launch... multiple launches to build a spaceship and fuel and supply it in orbit are a must. The really big rockets use a lot of fuel very quickly so alternative rocket types are needed to power the spaceship you assemble in space to get to Mars.

    So why spend trillions to make a large powerful rocket that doesn't make sense for the future of space travel? Except juvenile ego.

    Leadership in space has nothing to do with how much money you spend.

    There is no amount the US could spend that would deny Russia access to space and vice versa.

    Making space affordable with long range nuclear rockets and scramjet propulsion are much more productive endeavours than building super big rockets that are horrifically expensive and ultimately useless.

    i don't know how Russia reducing its space budget is a good idea in times Americans are trying to isolate it.

    Fact... it does not matter how much money the US spends on space it will never be able to deny access to space to Russia. Fact the reverse is also true.

    Based on these two facts there is no point spending money you don't have to maintain dominance in space when spending money cannot achieve dominance of space. Borrowing money and cutting spending from things that generate income like agriculture and other industries that can make money is pretty stupid if all you end up with is a big powerful rocket they have zero use for.

    Investing a trillion dollars in a rocket system you might use ten times is pissing away money US style.

    Using a rocket design you have already invested money in to make 50 launches to build a larger ship in space to fly to mars is a much better investment.


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    Rmf
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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Rmf on Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The imbecile of Putin have no fucking clue of what should be
    the priorities of Russia.


    So lets evaluate... there is no rocket big enough to go to mars in one launch... multiple launches to build a spaceship and fuel and supply it in orbit are a must. t.
    no they are not... your thinking is very shortsighted and limited.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcTZvNLL0-w

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Vann7 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:08 am

    GarryB wrote:
    The imbecile of Putin have no fucking clue of what should be
    the priorities of Russia.

    Yeah... he should just borrow like the whole western world does when there is not enough money... he can always just have more money printed to compensate for that can't he?

    Perhaps his problem is he doesn't have you as an advisor.... spend big money on big rockets because rockets are cool.

    Except for the fact that big rockets are a dead end... they are really only good for flights to the moon and unmanned flights to Mars or Venus. For manned missions to Mars they cannot be made big enough for one launch, so there are going to be multiple launches... and really big rockets use a lot of fuel so the nuclear rockets they are developing make rather more sense for actual propulsion from earth to mars.

    So lets evaluate... there is no rocket big enough to go to mars in one launch... multiple launches to build a spaceship and fuel and supply it in orbit are a must. The really big rockets use a lot of fuel very quickly so alternative rocket types are needed to power the spaceship you assemble in space to get to Mars.

    So why spend trillions to make a large powerful rocket that doesn't make sense for the future of space travel?  Except juvenile ego.

    Leadership in space has nothing to do with how much money you spend.

    There is no amount the US could spend that would deny Russia access to space and vice versa.

    Making space affordable with long range nuclear rockets and scramjet propulsion are much more productive endeavours than building super big rockets that are horrifically expensive and ultimately useless.

    i don't know how Russia reducing its space budget is a good idea in times Americans are trying to isolate it.

    Fact... it does not matter how much money the US spends on space it will never be able to deny access to space to Russia. Fact the reverse is also true.

    Based on these two facts there is no point spending money you don't have to maintain dominance in space when spending money cannot achieve dominance of space. Borrowing money and cutting spending from things that generate income like agriculture and other industries that can make money is pretty stupid if all you end up with is a big powerful rocket they have zero use for.

    Investing a trillion dollars in a rocket system you might use ten times is pissing away money US style.

    Using a rocket design you have already invested money in to make 50 launches to build a larger ship in space to fly to mars is a much better investment.


    Russia needs to take the leadership in Space , not just being competitive but totally Dominating it ,being first in everything for many years before the west . This means to have a Full Scale Space program with Space Stations and a base in the moon . and a travel to mars. Not in the year 2030 or 2040 but as if possible a decade in just a decade or less from today. ie. ~2025. And really needs to push for space tourism , become the first country to do tourism to the moon orbit and return. Can you imagine how fast Russia will be selling tickets to the moon orbit at any price? Russia needs to Lead in the world in the things they have a chance to do it ,and that people and society consider the most amazing things.  Is a fight for influence where Russia needs to heavily invest if ever wants to end the cold war of Americans.

    Winning a Sochi Olympics is just a one week glory and nothing else. Building more nukes.. dito.
    or producing cheaper Gas for Europe is not going to help Russia to advertise itself to Europe. Russia leading in development in most important things and not building more nukes. is the only thing that Russia can do ,to convince the west not only Europe but Also US that they need Russia and that they will benefit enormously with having good relations with Russia. So by reducing its space budget ,what Russia is doing is reducing their capabilities to influence the west and not be taken seriously as a nation.  It doesn't have to be space.. but this is the only area where Russia have a chance to really become attractive to the west..  

    Japan for example is attractive for its cars and Playstations and modern technology. All people likes Japaneses cars and its Entertainment technology too.  So everyone wants to do business with Japan. everybody. This is the way Russia ,needs to defeat Americans. not by building more nukes or hosting more olympics..that is nice but very small what you gain in long term business no. is important but not as much as space.You attract Business simply by becoming a very attractive nation for the world in technology everyone loves and unique business.  And Russia problem is that is not attractive enough to US and Europe ,to be taken seriously their interest in the world. by being just a taxi driver to the ISS is not enough ,by giving discounts of gas is not enough ,by giving away money for free to world war 2 veteras ,that have to be a joke. someone that really do not understand anything about the world he lives. . And soon Americans will replace Russian engines ,so the only thing Russia have ,that could be of interest to the west will be over soon.

    Take a look how Japans wins the hearts and minds of the world.



    this is how Americans wins the hearts and minds of the world.

    48 hours waiting in line for an iphone v6



    Russian girls getting naked for an iphone..  Laughing



    even Russians cant live without american technology.
    France how france becomes attractive for the world?
    the capital of fashion.. and clothing. Womens love shopping in Paris.

    Germany?
    the best civilians cars are from them.

    Italy how italy attract business?
    very fine sport cars..



    Russia? what Russia makes that any civilians needs?
    NOTHING.  I dont see how is possible that Russia is so big with so much talent and its government do not take advantage of it.  they had an yotaphone and allow it China to get
    it.  lol1  they had a nice Marusia car and allowed the company to go bankrupt.  No

    and only its space program is the only thing of attraction to the world that they still have
    to offer that everyone likes to see ,but mr Putin is sitting on his hands ,praising his soviet times when they think they were great ,and waiting Americans to retake their leadership in space again by cutting the budget of its space program..  So that Russia becomes totally useless nation for the world ,other than Asia , and encourage the competition to isolate Russia more.  Laughing  


    And how Russia become attractive to the world?
    by building more nukes?  No    by cheaper gas prices?  
    Obama is almost right ..Russia produce NOTHING , (that civilians really wants) .Is A gas station with nukes and that needs to change. Russia is not going to lift the siege of economic sanctions that Americans have in Russian business , until the Russian government gets a fucking clue of how important is that they becomes a much more attractive nation for international business .
    and when i mean business , i mean civilians needs.  like computers,iphones ,sports cars ,media center,fashion,movies. etc. Americans have all that and Russia nothing of that. just cheap gas and cheap travels to ISS.  No


    a nation like Japan cannot be sanctioned.. because a major revolution will happen in America
    if any US president blocks all business with japan. because so many millions of americans love
    the playstations and Japanes technology .

    Oh yea.. Russia do have modern armatas and submarines and pak-fa stealth planes.. those things are needed for sure to counter the very same stupid policy that Russia government provokes ,by allowing americans to lead the world in everything.  No Russia government is totally blind and do not see the direct connection between their poor influence in the world with the west and they being totally ignored.  Russia have a major influence problem in the world. and had them were much more competitive in the business that most matter ,that civilians more like ,they will not be under sanctions today at all. and will not have Americans so focused into destroy Russia and instead seeking close cooperation with them.

    Gary ..Why do americans do not sanctions Russia space program? Because they need that.
    at least for now..but as soon they get their rockets working ,they will also stop all cooperation
    with Russia in space. Why is so hard for MR Putin to realize ,that all he needs to do to avoid the confrontations with Americans is by becoming a much more attractive nation
    for business?

     if Russia was traveling to mars now ,planting a flag of Russia there. or flying the moon and creating moon based there ,i can assure you Gary ,the cheering world wide ,will be so big ,that you will have Europeans lifting sanctions withing hours ,and Americans will be unable to continue  their cold war.and create a new good relations with Russia. and none of this Cold war against Russia will be happening.Because Russia will be now needed.  and the American tone against Russia will be one of friendship , because they will see they need Russia and they cannot replaced it ,at least in long term and Because all European countries will be fighting to form a line to get closer business /technology cooperation with Russia.  

    Russia isolate itself ,with by staying behind in business.  in the world we live ,everyone likes winners and leaders in any important thing. and countries who leads in nothing ,are left behind.
    and totally ignored their interest ,which lead exactly to the confrontations Russia today face.

    All said , i can understand why Europe do not make an alliance with Russia and continues
    its destructive relation with US. This is because US leads in almost everything and Europe needs Americans business ,cannot live without them. but Russian in the other hand they almost needs nothing from Russia,other than cheap gas and cheap travels to ISS.That not the way to influence the west. So moving away of the american world ,is asking to become left behind in
    nation development and technology. Im surprised Russia have not been cut yet of the internet.
    Because Americans can do it too.  Russia needs to leave behind its Soviet past ,resting on
    its previous glory ,stop being happy with their past victories and start to think in their future and needs to start becoming a leader again in the world. it doesn't need to be in all things. but space Absolute domination and leadership will be more than enough.

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Rmf on Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:46 pm

    i agree youth needs some inspiration and goal, we had too many lost generations... the mars mission would lift whole intelectual base of the nation and give some goal for young ones to become inteletuals and enterpreneurs instead of drugs clubbing whoring etc.... we will never solve all problems on earth and never be in perfect financial situation.
    look at sochi winter games how much did those cost 20,30 ,40 bill dolalrs ? mars mission ould be done with 50 bill i guess for sure and spread over several launches and 10-15 years it wouldnt be such a burden.
    nobody will remember sochi in 10 years but humans on another planet first in history will be remembered forever and bring true glory and pride to that country.
    everyone would forget moon.
    and sochi as PR show was ruined because of coup in ukraine so russia got negative Press anyways.

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:31 am

    Sad.... very sad... the US beats you repeatedly (and I mean hits you, not competes and defeats you) and all you want is Americas approval... very sad.

    Fuck America... why seek attention from a screwed up narcissist state like that?

    Russia needs to find its own path... not suck the dick of the west... the only way Russia will get the approval of the west is if it privatises everything and lets big western corporations in to buy up everything of value at pathetically cheap rates... then you will be their friend because they will basically own you... see where the narcissism comes in... they only love you when they are you.

    Russia has spent a lot of time and effort with a few other countries to create an alternative to the west and its power structures... you might have heard of it... it is called BRICS.

    As it gets stronger it will become a genuine alternative for western dominated structures and pretty soon countries will be able to get by without having to bend over to the west and as they get stronger it will encourage more countries to join because unlike the western system with the US sitting firmly on the throne kicking down others when they get too high the new structure wont allow any one country to dominate and control. A truly multi-polar system.

    Wont be perfect, but will likely be much more fair.

    Certainly your degree of grovelling to the west and the US will count for nothing.

    And Russian girls take their clothes off for all sorts of things... what are you trying to prove?

    The west might not ever respect Russia... but I guarantee it wont respect it if it grovels and kneels to get attention.

    Russia needs to find its own way... the US's path leads to 90% or the wealth and power of a country ending up in the hands of 1% of the population... such a system has no future.

    All the western bullshit about market forces controlling economics, and the trickle down effect where you put a billionaire in a poor part of town and everyone benefits... total crap.

    But building big rockets will save Russia?

    Get real.

    If this was a gardening forum and you liked cabbages then I guess you would be claiming the US would change its mind and start loving Russia if Russia could only build the worlds biggest glass houses and grow the biggest cabbages.... The US loves nothing but itself...

    Russian youth do need goals and things to aim for, but American films show them their future is being drunk or a member of a mafia family that kills people.

    Instead of building rockets Russia should be making better movies and TV programmes.


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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Rmf on Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:55 pm

    except it was Ussr that started the whole thing , whole space exploration ,first satelite ,man in space etc... its natural russia should have dominant position , ... but again i imagine people like you would tell this to korolev and those people simmilar to you actually did- and they were chrushchevs close advisers... fortunately they LOST. ! Twisted Evil

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:38 pm

    Rmf wrote:i agree youth needs some inspiration and goal, we had too many lost generations... the mars mission would lift whole intelectual base of the nation and give some goal for young ones to become inteletuals and enterpreneurs instead of drugs clubbing whoring etc.... we will never solve all problems on earth and never be in perfect financial situation.
    look at sochi winter games how much did those cost 20,30 ,40 bill dolalrs ?  mars mission ould be done with 50 bill i guess for sure and spread over several launches and 10-15 years it wouldnt be such a burden.
    nobody will remember sochi in 10 years but humans on another planet first in history will be remembered forever and bring true glory and pride to that country.
    everyone would forget moon.
    and sochi as PR show was ruined because of coup in ukraine so russia got negative Press anyways.

    Exactly... lol  finally someone that see it. lol1

    Sochi was great, was fun ,was cool , i like it.  i cheered it and celebrated it.
    and i even was 100% supportive of ANY investment no matter the cost to lift the image
    of Russia. The propaganda in the west that Russia is communist and a third world nation .

    Russia spend in sochi a whopping 52 billions US Dollars!!!
    and i even supporting it 100%. But had i knew ,how miserable is Russian government budget
    in space annually. (about 1-2 billions dollars per year from 2006 to 2015).
    Then i will have preferred a million times they made a very cheap olympics. of just 5 to 10 billions dollars and the rest of the money used instead for their space program.

    Space budget is so important ,not only will generate many hundred of thousands of jobs directly or indirectly and create many hundreds of business , but it also significantly help its military ,its national defense and if that was not good enough ,it raise the morale of the entire nation and allows Russia to become a really attractive nation for western business ,by leading in space.

    To watch Russia government do the mistakes they do , is really frustrating ,because they have so much capabilities and talent and do not use it to their maximum for the short vision of their government , for me is painfully obvious ,the reason why Russia is not taken seriously in the west . Gary believe is not important that Russia becomes influential to the west. but i dont think so. Because America Empire exist. Russia cannot ignore it . They are aiming for nothing less than Global total control and hegemony .and they will never achieve that ,as long they see Russia as a competition ,that have no reason to exist.

    When you see Russians girls getting naked in public just to get an American technology ,is truly pathetic. and Russia can only fight Liberalism ,and American influence in Russia ,by them becoming an influence too , there is no other way .

    The Russian government should be giving top priority ,to its space program ,than anything
    else. not only compete ,but totally dominate space. Russians should be traveling to the moon,creating a base there ,traveling to mars ,to jupiter. all those things are the ones that amaze people. not cheap gas discounts for being ally with russia or paying pensions of veterans in other countries. thats insane..who ever advice Putin to do such things have to be fired from his job. No   It only shows the man have no fucking clue ,of what he is doing.

    Gary.. if we lived in a fair world , and world that everyone country treat another with respect
    and that every country respect the right of nation sovereignty of every nation. then Influence
    will not matter much at all. but because we live in a world ,that is very imbalanced and one power almost leads in everything and is seeking to control all and do not respect international laws ,then Russia have no other choice of either united their enemies and become a puppet ,(like Europe) or compete and become a leader too. there is no place for second best. second best reward is total destruction. The Soviet Union was second best. and doesn't exist today.
    I really think the problem is Putin. The man is from another generation and he do not see how important is for Russia to LEAD in really important things that MATTERS for civilians in the world,in things that civilians really love,  if it wants to have any chance to not be isolated.  To lead in military is important ,as Russia does for security. but thats not going to help Russia to be respected by the west and stop trying to disband their nation. Because Americans dominates in so many areas , Russia will have to truly have a major domination in space ,something that awe people. or if not perhaps dominate in entertainment as Japan does with SOny with its playstation. etc. OR totally dominate like Intel or microsoft in semiconductors and IT. or perhaps defeat totally dominate the smartphone market like Apple ,and create revolutionary smartphones that people love . etc. Something also that is highly underestimated is music industry and movie industry too. those things influence society too .  


    Look soviet statues in Ukraine replaced by American movies popular characters.

    http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/23/darth-vader-statue-erected-ukraine

    How can the Russian Government be so blind and continue praising its soviet past
    that have been largely discredited and for valid reasons ,in the west. and not focus
    on being more competitive in capitalism and business is the question to ask. Russia needs
    to lead or be a follower  . The only other option is a comfrontation with Americans and become  isolated from the world until a major war start  ,this is because the west not see Russia as nation that deserve any concession or space in the world ,because does not lead in anything.
    it only competes with them. but is not totally leading in anything.

    Again ,im not a putin hater, i believe he is patriotic and he is a good man . but he is also
    not connected with the reality of the world today. You cannot continue to maintain patriotism
    and nation unity ,while Americans continue winning the hearts of young Russian generations with their technology. Sharapova live in Florida not in Russia. Russians prefer to live in America and not in Russia and that can only change when Russia become a highly developed and prosperous nation ,and that can only happen when Russia becomes a leader. as it used to be in their Imperial times. and when they were the first to travel to space. etc.

    This is why i think ,it will be a bad idea ,really bad ,to take more territory in ukraine ,now that Russia influence is very poor there. Americans influence in Ukraine is almost absolute ,and it will be very easy for Americans to move the Euromaidans to moscow and create unrest there.


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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:04 am

    Cold war is over dude you need to let go of that shit.

    Competing to be shiniest boy killed the Soviet Union... it spent itself to death.

    Now the US is doing the same... Russia just has to let it.

    There is no prize for "Most Dominant Country In Space"

    WTF does that even mean?

    Pissing away hard earned cash to be able to say you dominate space is just gay.

    Cutting back funding when money is tight is normal adult stuff that kids don't understand cause they want a pony and the neighbours kid has two... the neighbours kid is dominating the field with ponies and we invented the pony so I need at least one and possibly two so I can brag to my mates on the internet about it.

    Pathetic.


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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:55 pm


    Russia’s A5V heavy-lift rocket to be ‘ready for lunar missions by 2025’ – Roscosmos chief to RT

    https://www.rt.com/news/338092-russia-angara-moon-roscosmos/

    Russian engineers have presented a prototype of Russia’s most powerful “Angara A5V” heavy-lift rocket that may perform its first manned flight to the Moon by 2030. As RT has learned from the Roscosmos chief the project is proceeding according to schedule.
    TrendsSpace exploration

    “At the end of February we drew up a preliminary design of a heavy-lift rocket Angara A5V. It is now being reviewed by all relevant research institutes,” the head of Roscosmos Igor Komarov told RT.

    The A5V spacecraft would add to Russia’s brand-new Angara rocket family which is based on unified Universal Rocket Modules (URM). Angara has been in development since 1994 and became the first spacecraft family produced entirely after the Soviet era.

    Unlike its “siblings” – Angara A5 rockets – Angara A5V is slated to be more efficient and capable of transporting a payload of up 38 tons. While looking quite similar, both featuring one core and four booster URMs as the first stage, due to some upgrades A5V can lift over 10 tons more than Angara A5.

    The main difference between Angara A5V and Angara A5 is an oxygen-hydrogen booster, which will replace oxygen-kerosene propelled upper stages, and the upgraded engine thrust of the first stage boosters.

    Roscosmos, however, is still looking at years of tough work and development to make its plans a reality.

    “We have to complete preparations for lunar missions and for A5V by 2025,” Komarov said.

    If in the future tests are successful, the Angara A5V may perform the first manned flight to the Moon sometime in 2030. The next stage would be manned lunar landing missions, which could come to fruition by 2035. One such mission would most likely require from four to six launches of the Angara-A5V spacecraft.

    In between now and then, there is also the heavy lift Angara A5, which is scheduled to deliver first useful load to orbit next year – and perform the first take-off from a specially designed launch pad at Russia’s brand new Vostochny Cosmodrome by the end of 2021.

    In December 2014, Russia’s space agency already successfully test-launched Angara A5, which delivered a dummy payload right into geostationary orbit.

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:02 pm

    they are totaly delusional ,they will never get payload that high. they are trying to make angara what it was not ment to be. this thing will never fly but putin and his cronies wont be alive by 2030 so who cares, i can bet anyone in the universe!

    let me elaborate in this edit: usefull payload to LEO is usually around 3% of rockets start weight ,bit smaller on smaller rockets larger on very large rockets, 4% is considered very very good.
    for example- energia had 100t payload and about 2.500t start weight with large hydrogen/oxygen core.
    this angara will weight at about 820tonns...
    that means payload cant be larger then 33t even if they use hydrogen in their rocket. 25t payload for nominal angara a5 is 3,1% which fits perfectly with other kerosine fuel rockets.
    Also modular rockets suffer from nonoptimal stage-weight distribution then linear dedicated rockets -thats their biggest problem ,and in case of angara -upper stages will be too heavy .... so they plan to use inlarged 10% forced booster engines rd-191 already streched to limits -meaning more complication risk and money thrown.


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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:00 pm


    Heads up!

    I noticed that troll from ignore list posted something again immediately after me.

    From now on in these situations I will be automatically reposting any previous article in order to neutralize trolls efforts.

    If by some miracle he posts something other than BS rest of you guys can notify me so I can check it out. (Won't hold my breath though...)

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:01 pm


    Russia’s A5V heavy-lift rocket to be ‘ready for lunar missions by 2025’ – Roscosmos chief to RT

    https://www.rt.com/news/338092-russia-angara-moon-roscosmos/

    Russian engineers have presented a prototype of Russia’s most powerful “Angara A5V” heavy-lift rocket that may perform its first manned flight to the Moon by 2030. As RT has learned from the Roscosmos chief the project is proceeding according to schedule.
    TrendsSpace exploration

    “At the end of February we drew up a preliminary design of a heavy-lift rocket Angara A5V. It is now being reviewed by all relevant research institutes,” the head of Roscosmos Igor Komarov told RT.

    The A5V spacecraft would add to Russia’s brand-new Angara rocket family which is based on unified Universal Rocket Modules (URM). Angara has been in development since 1994 and became the first spacecraft family produced entirely after the Soviet era.

    Unlike its “siblings” – Angara A5 rockets – Angara A5V is slated to be more efficient and capable of transporting a payload of up 38 tons. While looking quite similar, both featuring one core and four booster URMs as the first stage, due to some upgrades A5V can lift over 10 tons more than Angara A5.

    The main difference between Angara A5V and Angara A5 is an oxygen-hydrogen booster, which will replace oxygen-kerosene propelled upper stages, and the upgraded engine thrust of the first stage boosters.

    Roscosmos, however, is still looking at years of tough work and development to make its plans a reality.

    “We have to complete preparations for lunar missions and for A5V by 2025,” Komarov said.

    If in the future tests are successful, the Angara A5V may perform the first manned flight to the Moon sometime in 2030. The next stage would be manned lunar landing missions, which could come to fruition by 2035. One such mission would most likely require from four to six launches of the Angara-A5V spacecraft.

    In between now and then, there is also the heavy lift Angara A5, which is scheduled to deliver first useful load to orbit next year – and perform the first take-off from a specially designed launch pad at Russia’s brand new Vostochny Cosmodrome by the end of 2021.

    In December 2014, Russia’s space agency already successfully test-launched Angara A5, which delivered a dummy payload right into geostationary orbit.

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:12 am

    Rmf wrote:they are totaly delusional ,they will never get payload that high. they are trying to make angara what it was not ment to be. this thing will never fly but putin and his cronies wont be alive by 2030 so who cares, i can bet anyone in the universe!

    let me elaborate in this edit: usefull payload to LEO is usually around 3%  of rockets start weight ,bit smaller on smaller rockets larger on very large rockets, 4% is considered very very good.
    for example- energia had 100t payload and about 2.500t start weight with large hydrogen/oxygen core.
    this angara will weight at about 820tonns...
    that means payload cant be larger then 33t even if they use hydrogen in their rocket. 25t payload for nominal angara a5 is 3,1% which fits perfectly with other kerosine fuel rockets.
    Also modular rockets suffer from nonoptimal stage-weight distribution then linear dedicated rockets -thats their biggest problem ,and in case of angara -upper stages will be too heavy .... so they plan to use inlarged 10% forced booster engines rd-191 already streched to limits -meaning more complication risk and money thrown.


    Totally delusional? Show me your credentials as a qualified aerospace engineer and I may accept your opinion as valid...

    I personally doubt that an Angara 5V with liftoff mass of 821T will deliver 40T to LEO, but it should be able to meet mid-to-high 30s without issue. I should add that I think the often-quoted 821T mass is insufficient. A mass increase of only 62T for a greatly enlarger hydrolox 2nd stage? I'll believe that when I see it...

    Similarly an enlarged RD-191 variant will not be an engineering issue, and only requires cost/time resource to be made a reality.

    My take is that Angara 5V upgrade is very plausible, though I think the performance boost is likely to be over-stated. It does however remain a good way to leverage the existing development potential of the existing 25T class launcher to support heavier manned spacecraft for lunar activities.

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Rmf on Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:54 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:

    Totally delusional?  Show me your credentials as a qualified aerospace engineer and I may accept your opinion as valid...

    I personally doubt that an Angara 5V with liftoff mass of 821T will deliver 40T to LEO, but it should be able to meet mid-to-high 30s without issue.  I should add that I think the often-quoted 821T mass is insufficient.  A mass increase of only 62T for a greatly enlarger hydrolox 2nd stage?  I'll believe that when I see it...

    Similarly an enlarged RD-191 variant will not be an engineering issue, and only requires cost/time resource to be made a reality.

    My take is that Angara 5V upgrade is very plausible, though I think the performance boost is likely to be over-stated.  It does however remain a good way to leverage the existing development potential of the existing 25T class launcher to support heavier manned spacecraft for lunar activities.
    sure no problem only couple hundred millions and 10 years... Laughing
    you guys are hillarious and that pr picture posting papa idiot top is totaly wasted lol1
    bythe way what are your credentials? why should i tell you my profession anyway? why you think only aerospace can say that? and if he said 100tonns to LEO then you would belive him? Laughing
    do you know why they put hydrogen stage weight so low?? make it any heavier and rocket will lose speed.
    because core stage with single rd-191 engine is pushing it after 4 boosters separation ,and it cant, it has thrust to weight ratio lower then 1... its called nonoptimal stage weight distribution angara is wayyy to top heavy...

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:25 am

    Rmf wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:

    Totally delusional?  Show me your credentials as a qualified aerospace engineer and I may accept your opinion as valid...

    I personally doubt that an Angara 5V with liftoff mass of 821T will deliver 40T to LEO, but it should be able to meet mid-to-high 30s without issue.  I should add that I think the often-quoted 821T mass is insufficient.  A mass increase of only 62T for a greatly enlarger hydrolox 2nd stage?  I'll believe that when I see it...

    Similarly an enlarged RD-191 variant will not be an engineering issue, and only requires cost/time resource to be made a reality.

    My take is that Angara 5V upgrade is very plausible, though I think the performance boost is likely to be over-stated.  It does however remain a good way to leverage the existing development potential of the existing 25T class launcher to support heavier manned spacecraft for lunar activities.
    sure no problem only couple hundred millions and 10 years... Laughing
    you guys are hillarious and that pr picture posting papa idiot top is totaly wasted lol1
    bythe way what are your credentials? why should i tell you my profession anyway? why you think only aerospace can say that? and if he said 100tonns to LEO then you would belive him? Laughing
    do you know why they put hydrogen stage weight so low?? make it any heavier and rocket will lose speed.
    because core stage with single rd-191 engine is pushing it after 4 boosters separation ,and it cant, it has thrust to weight ratio lower then 1... its called nonoptimal stage weight distribution angara is wayyy to top heavy...

    Here we go... another puerile RMF rant....

    FWIW by profession I'm an Engineer, specifically Electrical, Instrumentation, Controls Systems in the Oil & Gas industry with 25+ years of experience.  An engineering background allows one to make reasonably educated guesses even for those disciplines outside of ones core competencies....

    Regarding the upper stage weight, an "oversized" upper stage can be accommodated by changing the sequencing and thrust levels of the core and strap-ons.  Instead of burning the strap-ons quickly while the core is throttled down, run all 1st stage engines at a similar rate so that by the time the strap-ons are exhausted, the core is mostly spent and the ascent profile can be maintained by the core with throttle set to max (low remaining propellent mass will boost kinetic performance) until 2nd stage seperation.  You'll need to up-rate the engines to lift the heavier stack, and you'll lose some performance from increased drag losses on the strap-ons running longer, but drag falls off at altitude so its do-able.  

    Bottom line is that Angara is a new system just entering IOC and it has lot of development potential that can be leveraged.  Just like current day Soyuz & Proton are greatly more capable than the 1st gen launchers, late-model Angaras  (like 5V variant) will also have greater performance.

    BTW - A5V payload to 200km LEO is slated as 35T not 40T.  The higher value is based on cross-feed and the use of new engines with extended nozzles for better performance at altitude, and these are unlikely as it adds significant cost for little extra capability.

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:28 am

    First he was butt hurt because Russia was abandoning space to American domination because Angara was incapable of carrying large loads to LEO... now he is complaining that the system they propose wont be able to do what they are proposing it will be able to do.

    Perhaps he just comes here to complain and this is therapy for him?

    Perhaps he does not understand economics in the real world.

    In the west when you have no money you borrow and spend more and then when the economy improves you try and pay off some debt.

    In Russia you cut back unnecessary spending, but when things get better you can increase funding again... this way you don't piss all your money away on interest on loans.


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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:05 am


    Angara infrastructure completed at Plasetsk.

    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/76109/




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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Rmf on Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:33 pm

    GarryB wrote:First he was butt hurt because Russia was abandoning space to American domination because Angara was incapable of carrying large loads to LEO...
    yes.

    GarryB wrote:
    now he is complaining that the system they propose wont be able to do what they are proposing it will be able to do.
    exactly i think it wont.
    GarryB wrote:
    Perhaps he just comes here to complain and this is therapy for him?

    Perhaps he does not understand economics in the real world.
    Hey im not the headless chicken here....

    Lets look at angara once again. It was to have a7 heavy version. it was talked about and planned untill 2014 at least...

    then they "found out" it would need a larger core.Oooooops ....
    then they found out it would need a special launch pad ... Ooooops....
    then they recalculated and-  it would be so expencive they cancelled it. Ooooops.....

    So ,so many rocket scientists and people talked about angara from a1- to a7 version for over 10 years and nobody thought of that. Thats is called a piss poor managment and a bad plan .
    So now they are building angara-A5 with hydrogen upper stage and say it can deliver same as angara a7. ahahahha ok frankenstein stopgap emergency  plan. i say it wont work.
    Its just so pathetic and chaotic beyond belief.
    Even now there is not angara A-3 and soyuz will fly for many many years , they built a expencive brand new launch pad for it with building and stuff at vostochny ,and they plan to replace it with another type of rocket phoenix or soyuz -5 whatever monster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhHJbhEtHGQ
    Whole angara project is starting to lose purpose, with 2 out of 4 versions not being built at all , and its becoming a tragedy......
    And im the one with "problems" ,ok. scratch

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:52 am

    Yes, you are the one with problems.

    WTF do they need a heavy lift rocket right now for?

    One might be useful in 20 years time for manned missions, but a group of smaller launches will always be cheaper and safer and simpler.

    First launch send up the basic structure of the space ship for the long journey... it could be telescoped inside itself for the launch and expanded in orbit when it is time to fuel it up... three or four launches of fuel to fuel it up and load food supplies and equipment and then a final launch to take up the crew... do some checks and then start burning that fuel... before hand you would have sent another slightly smaller rocket with robots to set up camp at the destination and start searching for water to start producing fuel and air and of course water supplies for when the crew arrives.


    Where does a super expensive super large rocket become useful?


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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Rmf on Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:45 pm

    ok but heavy lift vehicle could be made modular simmilar to angara model but with heavy 4 engined URMs.
    zenit is about 450tonns which is small.    if current angara URM is about 142t i would lower it to 140t and made big URM about 560t (4 times larger).
    both URMs would use same engine.
    when kuznetsov wanted to restart nk-33 production for light soyuz they wanted to modernise and uprate it to nk-331

    http://www.lpre.de/sntk/NK-33/modif.htm
    https://www.google.rs/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&ved=0ahUKEwi-7-CzsILMAhVtb5oKHU_YCTo4ChAWCCwwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcyberleninka.ru%2Farticle%2Fn%2Fkosmicheskie-dvigateli-sntk-imeni-n-d-kuznetsova.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGgfNphdiDmTCegOPpuFZu6GINZ-w&sig2=qbAA6LDZuAgp0eSPMjLqzw&bvm=bv.119028448,d.bGs&cad=rja

    -increased combustion chamber pressure from 148-175kg/cm and some tweaks but more then 90% commonality to old nk-33. so trust of 185t , which is lower then rd-191 (192 t). but cheaper ,lighter and easier to manrate engine.
    why is this light and heavy division is good because you can build them all low ,all high ,and also  mix them.

    light URMs would power A1-3,3t , A3-10t ,A5 -18t  to LEO ,so they would replace light launchers , soyuz launchers , and old proton-k.
    heavy URMs would payload  A1 - 14,5t ,A3- 46t , A5-75t. so replace zenit ,planned angara A5v (A7), and heaviest version used for heavy launcher- which with hydrogen stage would go up to 100t to LEO as in energias proposal.
    and a third option combining central Heavy Urm + light urm on sides : so heavy URM+2 light URM would give 23t to Leo , heavy+ 4 light -30t , 3 heavy urm + 2 light urm- 50+t
    all in all ,very wide range of payloads would be available and all launchers replaced.

    zenith is 450t weight ,diamether is 3,9m so increasing diamether to 4,1m like proton would increase 10% weight and losing second stage engines and fairing would gain another 10% so heavy URM would be diamether like proton and lenght like zenit maybe higher by few methers, about 44m. this is important for industrial commonality, cranes ,transports ,machinery, etc. and also would be all russian thing.
    https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%96%D1%82-3SL#/media/File:Zenit_3sl_sizes.svg


    i will use 2014 good year for launching:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_in_spaceflight
    22 soyuz launches , light A3 version would replace it.
    8 proton  would replace heavy 4 engined urm + 2 light urm ,version.
    1 zenit launch, would be replaced  by 1 heavy urm.
    and few more 3 light launchers replaced by 1 light urm.

    so how many engines would they need for boosters?  66+ 48 + 4+3= 121 engines. thats 1 engine every 3 days so its mass produced.
    i didnt count angara a5 test and cancelled seazenit launch.
    if you use heavy launcher with 20 engines on booster stages you go up dramatically in production and i also didnt count a nk-331 modified for second stage (urm-2) engine (nk-41).

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:


    Where does a super expensive super large rocket become useful?


    Because having a super heavy rocket will allow Russia to more faster reach the moon
    and deploy a Base there?

    Because having a super heavy rocket will allow Russia to accelerate their plans to Mars
    manned mission ,for having the capability to lift heavy equipment there?

    Because having a Super heavy rocket will allow Russia to build faster a space station and
    be prepared for the militarization of space ,if Americans as they have done before , abandon
    their space treaties and start deploying weapons in Space?

    Because it will help Russia to take a major lead in space in so many ways , like the above
    mentioned?

    because it helps the image of Russia leadership in space in the world and create many new jobs
    and this also helps to create lots of new jobs and push their technology industry?

    Why does Gagarin had a need to fly to space? by your logic ,it was a waste of time for soviets to fly to space or moon and mars because there was no need for it.   Rolling Eyes

    By your logic Gary ,the plane will have never been invented either ,and risk never taken ,because there was no need for it.  By your logic ,Christopher Columbus will have never traveled
    across the Oceans ,where never anyone before traveled because there was no need for it and it was too expensive to try to travel across the atlantic ocean..and America continent never discovered.

    Major inventions and major discoveries only happens when people take the lead and seeks
    to go where no one before have gone. Staying as a taxi to the ISS is not going to help Russia to
    become a leader in space and attract investors.Once Russia develop super heavy rockets ,and master the technology of super heavy rockets and start traveling to the moon and mars ,for real ,not in hollywood movies ,a new market will be created for it ,new technological challenges will show up ,but also new possibilities too ,the potential for space tourism ,around the moon for example in super heavy rockets  with many people . new needs will be created , new business will surface and a nation wide unity will show up ,that wasn't there before. it will be sochi multiplied by 100. and Russia have everything it needs to defeat the west in where it really matters ,in winning the hearts of society with their technology and business , but Russia miss the opportunities by not being more aggressive in space and others areas where they have a lot of promise.

    Im not asking the impossible. If Russia reduce the size of its navy by 30% ,that is decommision its older warships ,and perhaps cut is budget for Sports by the same, they will save MANY billions dollars enough to increase by 200% the budget of their space program. Without spending any extra.  This is to modify Russian priorities.

    Gary ,Russia spend every year about $70 billions on its defense Industry. (while its space industry only spend at best $2 billions a year. )

    Money that they spend to counter their own retarded policy with Americans ,of blocking their imperialism ,but at the same time doing nothing to really become an alternative to Europe to follow and become a leader too.  

    again im not asking for Russia to spend a single dime extra of its nation budget. All im asking that Russia takes more seriously space than it does. Cut $10billions from its defense industry and use it on space and you will have a 5 fold increase on its space budget.

    A super heavy rocket , a new space shuttle a new space station done by Russia ,that orbits in Russia latitudes ,and a mini base in the moon ,and manned travels to mars ,will not only help Russia attract lots of new business ,investors and improve their nation image and leadership in the world and lift the morale and unity of their citizens,but also it can be easily used to help their nation defense too , with the capability to deploy any hardware at any orbit and in almost any weight and at any time easily and go beyond earth orbit too.

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    Re: Next Generation Rocket Angara: News

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue May 03, 2016 8:39 pm


    Angara assembly photo report:

    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/77259/


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