Russian-Made Crash Notification

Tu-95 Bomber crashed . Not a nice sign . Better retire it .

Russia have more Accidents with military and planes that all other world nations combined..
today ANOTHER.. yes ANother plane crash.. this time a TU-95 bear..  lets see this year alone..
and in many of them with casualties on the pilots..


Su-24 in Khabarovsk region 6th of July 2015
MIG29 in Krasnodar region 3rd of July 2015
MIG29 in Astrakhan region 4th of
June 2015
Su 34 in Voronezh region 4th of June 2015
Tu-95 in Amur region 8th of June 2015

and now this
Tu 95 today....


http://rt.com/news/273520-tu95-bomber-crash-russia/

IF this is a case of the world Major incompetence ever seen ?
It looks like Russia have lost more planes than Ukraine since early 2014 ,and Russia is not at war.  My bet this have to do with the Terrible state of Russia defense Industry ,when it comes
to quality controls.. A revolution will be required ,reorganization . This is not embarrassing..
this already surpassed anything unthinkable.. and this is not counting the casualties on soldiers
on the ground.. that they are neither safe.. buildings also collapse..  Im just without words..
Something needs to change and people kicked , turn the whole defense industry in a very profitable agency ,where people are paid well ,so they do a better job.. perhaps reduce the size
of the army ,navy and airforce and have a smaller one but better paid soldiers and mechanics ,with modern facilities..

When the next crash will be? can we hope to get a full month without an accident in Russia?
in the military ?what you think? because it seems as if every 2-3 weeks someone is killed or
have an accident in the armed forces in Russia. The most painful thing will be the excuses
that you always hear from Russia.. a major military reform will be needed and the Russian
Government no longer give excuses for this disaster.

This is a sign of considerably increased operational tempo/sorties/flight hours; that has been instated over the past year, and has possibly been increased further during the last 3 months or this is just the strain on old airframes manifesting from over a year now of hard work.

However at the same time, a thorough comb for possible Ukie saboteurs would also be a nice idea.

Nothing good can ever develope from everything running perfect all the time, mistakes made equals lessons learned...

Still, a little depressing. Good thing the crew made it out safely.
Flamming_Python is bang on with the increased flight time/extra sorties. I would not be suprised if this is the majority of the problem.

This would put that discussion we had about restarting Tu-160 production to bed.

Bears are amazing machines but, unlike B-52s, they had misfortune of experiencing paradise of the 90's.

It is time for them to go to well deserved retirement. Blackjacks should take over the work and their renewed production will provide good foundation for when PAK-DA reaches serial production phase.

Quality controls in Russia are the main issue here.. they dont exist.. Not long ago a Ka-52
a brand new helicopter also crashed.. this is beyond ridiculous. And it pretty much looks
that is the salaries and environment work conditions and lealdership, things that directly impact the motivation of people are NOT there.  Without good leaders ,without good salaries and environment conditions ,you cannot have motivated technicians to do their job well.

So is a problem that can be fixed with money...or significantly improved..

Now people knows why Americans obsession to target and sabotage Russia economy in every possible way.. They target with sanctions Russian business and prohibit Europe to do business
with them..and provoke civil wars as they did in Ukraine ,which main goal is Russia economy.
To lifting sanctions on IRAN..so they flood the market with iranian oil and makes cheaper oil..
again to sabotage Russia economy. To attacks with their media on Russia Sochi Industry with propaganda and toothpaste bombs. Storming FIFA offices to sabotage Russia world cup in 2018.
something that will generate many tourism. And militarizing Russian Borders to force Russia into a weapons race..with US . All this things, are part of the same paper ,same strategy. That is to create the worse possible conditions for Russian citizens,either civilians or military . And create unemployment or low pay jobs.. things that damage the popularity of any Government.

US is effectively in an Economic War against Russia.. but is not yet full scale .. And Russia
needs to better use its budget and not fall in the weapon race trap and blindly spend in military
things they don't need.. as it is the Mistrals or anphibious assault ships they now making..
And focus in the most important things.  and all this crashed every week or every month
needs to stop.. or Putin will end rightly overthrow by its own military for incompetence.
Making it easier for the west to destabilize Russia.

Personally i will not expect any changes at all.. or things to improve.. until real Radical
changes done ,a major reform and or a new completely different president elected with much more vision than Putin.

Something that i will have done that is radical.. will be like cut the Navy budget in half ,
scrap most of the soviet navy ,and offer the sailors to join the army to drive armata tanks..
And the money saved there -re-invested in the Russian Airforce and Russian army in modernization and expansion of it.. to a new level. with new military bases and modern repair facilities.  The bear bombers do have its use.. as monitoring spy planes ,and their long distance travel and capability to carry lethal weapons should not be underestimated. In fact the bear only needs to be improved.. needs to be made ,to be easier to maintain ,fool proof to repair . Perhaps a modular version of the plane done ,that requires very little job to replace any part for a brand new one. The bear should not be discontinue but improved and made it more simple to  repair.. its job should be spying enemy borders through long distances and to retain its capabilities to carry lethal weapons.

Putin is not a bad president.. but i neither think he is a visionary.. He is more reactionary president.. Expect things to be bad to try to fix it. Expect to be under sanctions to start import substitution. Putin is good in diplomacy but not so good in development and planning. It is very short sighted that Russia now have programs to replace western technology dependence ,when that have to be done a decade ago. not now..You have the Russian modern warships halted because they depend on Ukraine Gas Engines. And no one saw the risk of depending in Ukraine
that already had very hostile factions planning to take power again ,as they did. I think someone like the pm of donetsk Sarashenko could be a real alternative for President of Russia..  

^ Nice rant...

The Bear in its' role as a bomber has needed to be retired for some time now. However, IMO Russia should scrap those and maintain ELINT & Missile variants, while restarting Tu-160 production.

Mike E wrote:^ Nice rant...

The Bear in its' role as a bomber has needed to be retired for some time now. However, IMO Russia should scrap those and maintain ELINT & Missile variants, while restarting Tu-160 production.

The only Tu-95 version in service is the MS, and that's a missile carrier. No bomber or ELINT versions remain. And restarting the Tu-160 production will take years to achieve, if lack of funds don't kill it. So until 2025 or so there will be nothing that can replace the Tu-95...

Cucumber Khan wrote:

Mike E wrote:^ Nice rant...

The Bear in its' role as a bomber has needed to be retired for some time now. However, IMO Russia should scrap those and maintain ELINT & Missile variants, while restarting Tu-160 production.

The only Tu-95 version in service is the MS, and that's a missile carrier. No bomber or ELINT versions remain. And restarting the Tu-160 production will take years to achieve, if lack of funds don't kill it. So until 2025 or so there will be nothing that can replace the Tu-95...

Really? I always thought Russia was flying the ELINT variant in regards to "pushing into" US airspace.

Vann7 wrote:Russia have more Accidents with military and planes that all other world nations combined..
today ANOTHER..

Fortunately you are wrong, and the number of accidents in the VVS is not alarming at all, it is quite normal for a force of its size and operating in an huge country with extreme climate conditions and few infrastructure in vast areas. Russia lost 7 military aircraft this year; the US 10 (counting not only USAF, but also USN and USMC); and India 11. What is worrying is the fact that 2 Tu-95 crashed almost one after another, specially considering that it used to be extremely reliable until now (almost no crashes in decades).
Here is a good article (in Spanish, but I count that anyone knows how to use an online translator) of all lost military aircraft in the world this year up to July 1st:
http://charly015.blogspot.com.ar/2015/07/accidentes-2015-primera-mitad-de-2015.html
It includes two US UCAV, which I have excluded from my account above (I am counting only manned aircraft), apart from adding the most recent crashes to Russia and US after July 1st.

sepheronx wrote:Vann

Russian aerospace industry isnt at fault for this, added in, Russian military is one of the top highest paying jobs now in Russia, especially on state controlled side of things.

This has more to do with years of neglect of proper maintenance, mixed in with far more rapid training operations happening. These Tu-95's are old. Add in, if they had proper maintenance before, then I doubt they would be this problematic now.

The areas to look at are both the training and the repair plants/maintenance facilities. New Russian jets rarely get these issues, besides the recent Su-34, and most modern Russian jets are of high quality. It boils down to who and where the maintenance is being performed. Maybe more money is needed, maybe they need to contract out repairs to a private company, maybe they need better training and new facilities.

They're not that old. They were built in the 80s.

They have to hold on for another 10-15 years or so; because that's how long it will take for the PAK-DA to start getting into service in numbers; the PAK-DA being a direct successfor to the Tu-95.

Restarting production of the Tu-160 won't help that much as the Tu-160 is not a replacement for the Tu-95 but a complement to it. You can change the ratio to be more in favour of the Tu-160 by building new Tu-160s and retiring some of the oldest Tu-95s; but you can't change the ratio too much - these are fundamentally different aircraft, used in different ways, based in different parts of the country.

AFAIK most of the crashed aircraft in RU air force had label ''Made in USSR''.

This is basically wear and tear. Solution is simple: keep retiring old and keep buying new.

Svyatoslavich wrote:

Vann7 wrote:Russia have more Accidents with military and planes that all other world nations combined..
today ANOTHER..

Fortunately you are wrong, and the number of accidents in the VVS is not alarming at all, it is quite normal for a force of its size and operating in an huge country with extreme climate conditions and few infrastructure in vast areas. Russia lost 7 military aircraft this year; the US 10 (counting not only USAF, but also USN and USMC); and India 11. What is worrying is the fact that 2 Tu-95 crashed almost one after another, specially considering that it used to be extremely reliable until now (almost no crashes in decades).
Here is a good article (in Spanish, but I count that anyone knows how to use an online translator) of all lost military aircraft in the world this year up to July 1st:
http://charly015.blogspot.com.ar/2015/07/accidentes-2015-primera-mitad-de-2015.html
It includes two US UCAV, which I have excluded from my account above (I am counting only manned aircraft), apart from adding the most recent crashes to Russia and US after July 1st.

Just this year..

in just half a year.. 6 crashes... this is not normal.. this is ridiculous..

Su-24 in Khabarovsk region 6th of July 2015
MIG29 in Krasnodar region 3rd of July 2015
MIG29 in Astrakhan region 4th of
June 2015
Su 34 in Voronezh region 4th of June 2015
Tu-95 in Amur region 8th of June 2015

and now this
Tu 95 today....

and the above list does not include helicopter crashes.. too..

Please show me the American US Armed Forces plane crashes in 2015..   In Non Warzone ..  and compare that with the Russian accidents.. in Russia territory. and you will see
a Huge Difference.. and this is not mentioning that Americans have a much larger airforce ,and fly more missions and have more planes than Russia in operations all the time.


And then you have Russian Soldiers die all the time in training and practice in peace times.. or just sleeping in their barracks.. because their building collapse.. this things never happens in any other part of the civilized world.. Go mention any time Americans or any NATO soldiers died in US or Europe..in a non warzone.. because their building collapsed?  Thats ridiculous.

I like Russian hardware.. as much as anyone who visit the forums.. but trying to defend incompetence is non sense. The Russia Government have a real serious issue with quality controls.. not only in their planes but in their defense industry. infrastructure.. and their Space industry too..    

So my question is How many more planes needs to crash and pilots to die ,for the Russian
Government to do something about it? This is not normal.. This is actually really terrible..

The civilians industry.. Airports in US and Europe do thousands of times ,more travels in plane
than Russia military does.. and you don't see any month a plane crash because of malfunction
or an equipment.

It should be scary to be a pilot in Russia today ,knowing you have a real possibility of having a fatal accident. for the poor quality controls.. of your country.  And i suspect this is connected with the incompetence and the Russian Government.. Russia could have the world best Scientist and Engineers.. But their Managers and leadership is truly incompetent.. and it can sink the whole morale of the RUssian armed forces ,if this crashes continues every month or every couple of week.

What is worrying is the fact that 2 Tu-95 crashed almost one after another

So even you admits ,it is scary.. because it is.. You can have the best planes in the world.. the most secure and safe.. but if you have really bad quality controls ,when they need repairs ,the technicians for leaving early their jobs will just not do things the way they should..and cut corners.. Quality controls is a problem of lack of Supervision ,lack of motivation employees to do right their job and Bad Management..

What is really annoying about all this.. is that i see this ..Again.. and again and again.. and then again and again and again.. Poor management everywhere in RUssia.. as if Russia leadership was all incompetents and Putin have to do micromanage everything to get it right..  The whole Strike of Russian workers for not being paid at Vostochny Cosmodrome is just ANOTHER EXAMPLE of bad management in Russia.. So is as if the entire nation a big part of its management is mediocre at best or corrupt. And still have the bad habits of the Soviet Times
that there was ... no motivation for anyone working for the government to do anything since they will be paid anyway .

The next video ,while i don't agree with everything said by the journalist ,he shows exactly
example of how it was under soviet union for workers under government controlled business.. People not caring for doing anything since they will be paid anyway. a quick example of how bad leadership and managing ,can directly affect a service to others.



I really think ,there are still soviet style bad habits in today RUssia ,difficult to change.. that affect the services they do to others.. including security and safety in the defense industry and military. And perhaps could only be fixed with privatization of the defense industry ,where performance can affect the salaries of its employees or even lose their jobs. so there is
a pressure on people to be more competitive and efficient..

GarryB wrote:If you think Russia can get Boeing to make aircraft for them and that will mean they will never crash because Boeing is in a democracy where workers care about their products and don't just turn up for work each day to make sure they keep getting paid then you are wrong. the only planes that can't crash are the ones in museums that never fly.  Which are totally useless for any air force.

A majority of air crashes actually involve aircraft manufactured by Boeing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Boeing_747

Vann7 wrote:in just half a year.. 6 crashes... this is not normal.. this is ridiculous..

An explaination of what additional factors cause crashes, especially intensive training. http://in.rbth.com/blogs/2015/06/04/why_the_indian_air_force_has_a_high_crash_rate_43501.html

Vann7 wrote:

Purely RI-DI-CU-LOUS.

And purely ANA-CHRO-NIC.

Keep this crap out of me.

Please, do not remind how the 80's were mentally dangerous. I was mentally fucked by the 80's :archives:

GarryB wrote:Yeah... you are right... Russia has a problem...  

Indeed, they're russian...