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    Egyptian Air Defense Forces

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    mack8

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  mack8 on Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:40 pm

    ...and i'll add couple more of Buk and Tor (there is some footage of all this stuff somewhere on youtube, can't recall where though, the title is in arabic)
    PS: man wouldn't it be awesome if the egyptians would get stuff like Tor-M2, Buk-M2, S-300, Su-35, MiG-35, JF-17 etc. etc. Very Happy 


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    SOC

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  SOC on Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:27 am

    ahmedfire wrote:
    Oh , i took my breath again Smile thanks Garry and thanks Soc .

    But why the missiles above have different nose color " white and red " , is the white one belong to BUK-M1 and the red for BUK-M2 ?
    The radomes are white, the ones that look red actually have covers over them.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:45 am

    But why the missiles above have different nose color " white and red " , is the white one belong to BUK-M1 and the red for BUK-M2 ?
    Probably not.

    In this case I think the red noses on the BUK are covers to protect the dielectric surfaces before launch.

    The colours on the other missiles shown might indicate the difference between training missiles or target missiles and live missiles, or it might indicate the branch that operates them.

    For instance for one period during the Cold War the PVO Strany or air defence forces aircraft had dark green dielectric panels and nose cones, while standard Soviet Air Force and Naval Aviation had their noses and dielectric panels painted white or a dark grey.

    ie


    Aircraft of course got transferred so you ended up with a mix where white nose cone and green dielectric panels happened too:



    Of course in terms of missiles there was often a difference between missiles for live fire and for tests, with red used to make the missile orientation clearer in intercept photos. Silver and black and white also indicated training and dummy rounds.

    For example also:


    This is a red nose cover, as I have seen these being removed in videos.

    If you look very carefully at this photo the red cover for the SARH head of this R-27 it is not on straight:



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    TR1

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  TR1 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:54 am

    What was the timeline for Egypt's acquisition of (more) modern Russian SAMs?

    Kinda went under the radar, pun fully intended.
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  ahmedfire on Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:47 am

    mack8 wrote:...and i'll add couple more of Buk and Tor (there is some footage of all this stuff somewhere on youtube, can't recall where though, the title is in arabic)
    PS: man wouldn't it be awesome if the egyptians would get stuff like Tor-M2, Buk-M2, S-300, Su-35, MiG-35, JF-17 etc. etc. Very Happy 
    Su-35 and S-300 would be enough,It would be awesome Smile 
    As we cut the F-16 last deal from 24 to 20 aircrafts , it's obvious no more F-16 deals , also Egyptian AD has a good mix of many layers missiles that cover most of Egypt sky , i think we just need S-300 as anti BMs .
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  ahmedfire on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:15 am

    TR1 wrote:What was the timeline for Egypt's acquisition of (more) modern Russian SAMs?

    Kinda went under the radar, pun fully intended.
    We already have TOR-M1 , BUK1-2 , pechora-M2 , SA-2 Guideline (upgraded ) ,SAM-6 (upgraded) ,SA-9 Gaskin
    Indeed the western hardware .
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  ahmedfire on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:17 am

    SOC,Garry thank you +
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    nemrod

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    Egypt and S-300V4

    Post  nemrod on Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:09 pm

    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/746166

    As the production will be stopped next, it means that the effeectiveness of such system is not evident. Is S-300 still effective against US Elint, Awacs, western jammer ? It would be dubious.
    If Egypt want to waste money... It would be preferable for Egypt to buy modern Mig-29, Su-35 instead of S-300.


    Last edited by nemrod on Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Mike E

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  Mike E on Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:08 pm

    It would work fine, but of course it wouldn't be anywhere near as advanced as the S-400 or similar. - Does anyone know what model S-300 it is? If it is a "PMU" or similar it is fine, but if it is something like a P.....

    Egypt should get a good deal on the system anyway, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're scoping out some MiGs or similar.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:08 am

    You could turn that comment around and ask if the S-300 is useless and is going out of production then why would Egypt and Syria and Iran want it?

    Why would Israel be so afraid of it?


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    Mike E

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  Mike E on Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:34 am

    Those are some good points...

    I found out that they are PMU models, so they should work great!
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    nemrod

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  nemrod on Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:You could turn that comment around and ask if the S-300 is useless and is going out of production then why would Egypt and Syria and Iran want it?

    Why would Israel be so afraid of it?

    Israelis fighters are not frightened by neither SA-10 -aka S-300- or SA-15-aka Tor-, and even the SA-20, or anything else, as we discussed previously. A friend of mine -that is pilot too- told me, a good skills pilot could easily dodge every Surface to air missile, whatever it is SA-10, SA-15, SA-22, etc...
    Nevertheless, it could threatened the  israeli' or US's offensive's strategies and tactics. Because SA-10 could downed every awacs, every jammer that helped the aggressors to attack. In fact the SA-10 could threatened the western advantage field that is electronic warfare. Indeed, an Elint, rc-135,  a Boeing 707 sentry -awacs- etc..could not dodge  SA-10 shoots. The strategies and tactics of US air force -as Israel- are always to operate if and only if they are sure to win against their potential enemy. Else, they simply could not dare attacks, because their strategies and tactics would collapse.

    If so,  F-15, F-16, F-18, as Tornado are very vulnerable against even the highly manoeuvrable Mig-21 bis -as my friend, this elder aircraft is still effective, still a danger for every western aircraft, and still very redoubtable fighter-. In this condition, no use to tell you more about the Mig-23, or Mig-29.

    However, and I ignored that, the S-300 was sold to Ukraine, Slovakia, Germany, and Greece. In fact the secrets of SA-10' radars are in Nato's hand cancelling its effectiveness. Moreover, the date of its conception -I mean the last modernisation - is around 1990's.
    For that reason I think Russia stopped its production, and its effectiveness, is somewhere doubtful.
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    Werewolf

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:14 pm

    nemrod wrote:
    GarryB wrote:You could turn that comment around and ask if the S-300 is useless and is going out of production then why would Egypt and Syria and Iran want it?

    Why would Israel be so afraid of it?

    Israelis fighters are not frightened by neither SA-10 -aka S-300- or SA-15-aka Tor-, and even the SA-20, or anything else, as we discussed previously. A friend of mine -that is pilot too- told me, a good skills pilot could easily dodge every Surface to air missile, whatever it is SA-10, SA-15, SA-22, etc...
    Nevertheless, it could threatened the  israeli' or US's offensive's strategies and tactics. Because SA-10 could downed every awacs, every jammer that helped the aggressors to attack. In fact the SA-10 could threatened the western advantage field that is electronic warfare. Indeed, an Elint, rc-135,  a Boeing 707 sentry -awacs- etc..could not dodge  SA-10 shoots. The strategies and tactics of US air force -as Israel- are always to operate if and only if they are sure to win against their potential enemy. Else, they simply could not dare attacks, because their strategies and tactics would collapse.

    If so,  F-15, F-16, F-18, as Tornado are very vulnerable against even the highly manoeuvrable Mig-21 bis -as my friend, this elder aircraft is still effective, still a danger for every western aircraft, and still very redoubtable fighter-. In this condition, no use to tell you more about the Mig-23, or Mig-29.

    However, and I ignored that, the S-300 was sold to Ukraine, Slovakia, Germany, and Greece. In fact the secrets of SA-10' radars are in Nato's hand cancelling its effectiveness. Moreover, the date of its conception -I mean the last modernisation - is around 1990's.
    For that reason I think Russia stopped its production, and its effectiveness, is somewhere doubtful.

    Sure if your friend is superman that can fly with speed of light and change directions at the same speed...

    It does not matter what kind of good pilot you are you can not pull more than 9G with a jet when there are SAM missiles that can pull 12-30G maneuvering.
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    Hannibal Barca

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:37 pm

    12-30g or even more only longitudinal not vertical. This is really not the same...
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    GarryB

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:45 am

    Israelis fighters are not frightened by neither SA-10 -aka S-300- or SA-15-aka Tor-, and even the SA-20, or anything else, as we discussed previously. A friend of mine -that is pilot too- told me, a good skills pilot could easily dodge every Surface to air missile, whatever it is SA-10, SA-15, SA-22, etc...

    Sounds very unprofessional to me... TOR in particular has side mounted rocket thrusters that in addition to turning it towards the incoming target at launch (after a vertical launch) can also be used in the terminal phase to shift the flightpath of the missile to hit a manouvering target.

    S-300 has a 150kg warhead with a directed fragmentation pattern that acts like a flying claymore mine so even if the missile misses the warhead can shatter the target anyway.

    Sounds very confident about his abilities against missiles he has never come up against before... the SA-6 brought down quite a few of his colleges who likely thought they could outmanouver threats too.

    May I ask how you think they dodge these missiles... the S-300 is moving at a kilometre a second and is not really that big end on when it is flying towards you.

    For that reason I think Russia stopped its production, and its effectiveness, is somewhere doubtful.

    Russia has stopped its production for its own armed forces... if there were an export customer they would continue to make them...

    The US got its hands on lots of Soviet equipment... that is not to say that equipment is now useless...

    It does not matter what kind of good pilot you are you can not pull more than 9G with a jet when there are SAM missiles that can pull 12-30G maneuvering.

    The problems are magnified when the threat is moving 2-3 times faster than a rifle bullet and has a payload that can see you and will detonate its warhead to direct the fragments into your path...


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    nemrod

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  nemrod on Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:40 pm

    Werewolf wrote:

    Sure if your friend is superman that can fly with speed of light and change directions at the same speed...

    It does not matter what kind of good pilot you are you can not pull more than 9G with a jet when there are SAM missiles that can pull 12-30G maneuvering.

    This problem is not new, for a long time ago a good skill pilot could dodge this missile, as every air to air missile. But indeed, if you launch  dozens of SA-10, they could reach their target.




    GarryB wrote:
    Sounds very confident about his abilities against missiles he has never come up against before... the SA-6 brought down quite a few of his colleges who likely thought they could outmanoeuvre threats too.

    During the october 1973, Israel acknowaledged -stupid and ridiculous figures- 102-140 aircrafts  and only 40 aircrafts were du to the SAM. The reality is far different, the losses could be at least 300 to 400 aircrafts, and the losses du to the SAM could reach 100. Nevertheless, in surprise effect, the SAM -including the very effectives ZSU 23-4 and ZSU 57-2 - were responsibles at the best 1/3 of israelis losses, the rest were due to the air to air combat -contrary to what Israel and US claim. They give a laughable figure of 5 air/air losses, ridiculous too-.




    May I ask how you think they dodge these missiles... the S-300 is moving at a kilometre a second and is not really that big end on when it is flying towards you.
    As I said, the weak point is the radar, as this radar is in Nato' hands, they could jam it.



    Russia has stopped its production for its own armed forces... if there were an export customer they would continue to make them...

    The US got its hands on lots of Soviet equipment... that is not to say that equipment is now useless...
    As Tom Cooper, this was the case, he claimed that the fact that  Adolf Tolkachev gave to US the secrets of soviet/russian radars, this could be the reason why they did not be effective against US coalition in 1991.




    It does not matter what kind of good pilot you are you can not pull more than 9G with a jet when there are SAM missiles that can pull 12-30G maneuvering.

    The problems are magnified when the threat is moving 2-3 times faster than a rifle bullet and has a payload that can see you and will detonate its warhead to direct the fragments into your path...

    As I said above it is not new, but a good pilote could overcome this kind of problem.
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    Anas Ali

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    Egypt and S-300

    Post  Anas Ali on Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:59 pm

    hi , there's weird updates about the S-300VM to Egypt and its making everyone in Egypt go crazy and i reallt really would appreciate your opinions

    so 4 days ago Vyacheslav Dzirkaln  the deputy general director of  Almaz-Antey said that Egypt is the second country to get the S-300VM after Venezuela
    http://itar-tass.com/armiya-i-opk/1566791


    then 2 days ago  "Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation does not confirm several Russian and foreign media reports on signing the contract on supplies of S-300BM air defence missile systems," the report said.
    http://en.tass.ru/russia/759794

    so what is going on did we get it like antey said or not ?
    and there is many Russian site confirmed the deal


    http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/33792041/pro-na-gusenicah
    http://briansk.ru/world/rossiya-postavit-v-egipet-zenitnye-sistemy.2014924.322112.html
    http://www.novoye-vremya.com/v5/w37366/.../#.VGY02cm0S7G
    http://rss-informer.ru/rosoboroneksport_postavit_v_egipet_zenitnye_sistemy_s-300vm.html
    http://www.janes.com/article/43750/egypt-reportedly-orders-s-300vm
    http://itar-tass.com/armiya-i-opk/1566791

    i would appreciate you honest opinion guys
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    Morpheus Eberhardt

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:52 pm

    Anas Ali wrote:hi , there's weird updates about the S-300VM to Egypt and its making everyone in Egypt go crazy and i reallt really would appreciate your opinions

    so 4 days ago Vyacheslav Dzirkaln  the deputy general director of  Almaz-Antey said that Egypt is the second country to get the S-300VM after Venezuela
    http://itar-tass.com/armiya-i-opk/1566791


    then 2 days ago  "Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation does not confirm several Russian and foreign media reports on signing the contract on supplies of S-300BM air defence missile systems," the report said.
    http://en.tass.ru/russia/759794

    so what is going on did we get it like antey said or not ?
    and there is many Russian site confirmed the deal


    http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/33792041/pro-na-gusenicah
    http://briansk.ru/world/rossiya-postavit-v-egipet-zenitnye-sistemy.2014924.322112.html
    http://www.novoye-vremya.com/v5/w37366/.../#.VGY02cm0S7G
    http://rss-informer.ru/rosoboroneksport_postavit_v_egipet_zenitnye_sistemy_s-300vm.html
    http://www.janes.com/article/43750/egypt-reportedly-orders-s-300vm
    http://itar-tass.com/armiya-i-opk/1566791

    i would appreciate you honest opinion guys

    I think you are getting the Antej-2500. That's why the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation has not confirm the signing of the contract for the S-300VM delivery. It is common for the Russians to get pedantic with terminology when they don't want to say too much about something.

    Frankly, I am more pedantic than that even in my walk of life.
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  Anas Ali on Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:51 pm



    thanks Morpheus Eberhardt
    TheArmenian i really hope its Maskirovka Twisted Evil
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    Anas Ali

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  Anas Ali on Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:05 pm

    guy if there is any new updates concerning this matter please post it here , it would be much appreciated
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:35 pm





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    Viktor

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  Viktor on Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:07 pm

    Tor-M2 and BUK-M2 ... only thing missing is S-300VM Very Happy
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    ahmedfire

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    Re: Egyptian Air Defense Forces

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:51 pm

    Viktor wrote:Tor-M2 and BUK-M2 ... only thing missing is S-300VM Very Happy

    Egyptian military is very strange with his eastern imported hardware , nothing officialy announced for buying any hardware , just interests on many equipments , we know the informations from army training videos , year after other we find new equipments , so i can't say we have no S-300 Smile
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    Viktor

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    Russian SAMs in Egypt

    Post  Viktor on Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:59 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    Viktor wrote:Tor-M2 and BUK-M2 ... only thing missing is S-300VM Very Happy

    Egyptian military is very strange with his eastern imported hardware , nothing officialy announced for buying any hardware , just interests on many equipments , we know the informations from army training videos , year after other we find new equipments , so i can't say we have no S-300 Smile

    And so has been for years. I remember reading how foreign dignitaries where schoked to found out during on of Egypt military parades about Pechora-2M.

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    ahmedfire

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    Egypt has acquired S-300V4 ( "Antey-2500").

    Post  ahmedfire on Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:40 pm

    По имеющимся данным, Египет стал второй после Венесуэлы страной, приобретшей ЗРС С-300В4 (ее экспортное название - "Антей-2500").

    According to reports, Egypt became the second country after Venezuela, has acquired S-300V4 (its export name - "Antey-2500").

    Россия выполняет египетские заказы на поставку вооружений на сумму $3,5 млрд

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