Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

GarryB wrote:None of the videos are working for me... I should upgrade my OS...

I hope you're not still using rotary phones, Gary? LMAOOOooo!

If you can't watch it on your desktop of laptop and you have a smartphone, either a Samsung or iPhone you should be able to watch it on that.

GarryB wrote:None of the videos are working for me... I should upgrade my OS...

Hopefully not a cancerous Windows 10/11

Werewolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:None of the videos are working for me... I should upgrade my OS...

Hopefully not a cancerous Windows 10/11

Win7 for ever

Microsoft still quietly updating it

GarryB wrote:Nice photos BTW.... notice the squiggly lines in the curved part of the canopy on those Hokums on those carriers.... that is det cord... detonation cord... if the crew has to eject explosive bolts will shear off the main rotor blades (all 6) and those det cords will also be detonated to shatter the canopy so the ejection seats can launch directly upwards through the canopy without needing to wait a second or so for them to be ejected clear... it makes ejection faster and safer... but would shower you in canopy bits before ejection.

Glad you like the photos.  It's nice to get some appreciation once in a while since it does take a bit of effort to upload a bunch like that.  And that top view of that one Ka-52 on the deck of the Mistral is really sweet.  The desert camo, blue radome, blue sea, metal deck, bent spinning rotors illusion and a great view of the det chord arrangement is terrific.  A perfect capture.  You don't get top views like that very often, but the EAF and EN have been using camera drones (mostly DJI Phantom IIs) to take a lot of these videos and filming and then they pull stills out of them, just like that top view of the Nile Crocodile.

And yes, I am quite familiar with det chord.  I think it's the better option on a helo like the Ka-52 since ejecting the canopy itself with the prospect of the rotors not disengaging for any reason would be detrimental to the pilots.  Specifically in this case, since there are actually a pair of canopies, not just one.  

But on fighter jets like the Harrier (just as an example), I don't think it's the best option and they should always have the full canopy ejection to give the seat a fully wide opening for clearance.  Some of the better detonation chord designs -- for example, on the F-35 lol I believe -- has the det chord running the entire perimeter of the glass canopy right at the connection to the canopy frame itself.  This way the entire glass canopy gets dislocated and the whole thing flies off, sans canopy frame of course.  To me, that seems like a much better and safer design than the squiggly wiggly pattern on the top of the glass.

Speaking of ejection seats, a small correction on your description of the sequence on the Ka-52's ejection seats.  You said once the explosive bolts on the rotors dislodge all the blades, followed by the det chord shattering the canopy for the seats to eject straight out.  That last part is actually a bit different.  The seats in the Ka-52 (K-37-800M) don't have their own rockets to eject.  Instead, each seat has an attached rocket canister that fires off following the det chord sequence.  That canister is tethered directly to the pilot's straps with a cable, which then pulls the pilot straight out of the helo cabin.  The seat stays behind.  It's a fascinating concept and there's actually a brilliant reason for the way they designed it to operate that way instead of the seat itself ejecting with its own rockets.

The reason is that just in case one or two (or however many) rotor blades do not dislodge for whatever reason, failure of charges, stuck bolts whatever, the canister will allow the cable to get caught in one of the spinning rotor blades and that will then pull and toss the pilot clear out and away from any of the remaining spinning rotors.  The intention is to avoid obvious decapitation/mutilation of the poor pilot.  

When I first learned about the Ka-52 having an ejection seat option many years ago, I was so impressed the Russians were able to pull that off and be the first to incorporate ejection seats in helicopters.  But then when I found out about the canister + cable directly to pilot + anticipation of the worst-case scenario with the possibility of rotors not dislodging that the cable was specifically designed for ease of clearance from the cockpit bay as well as for catching one of the spinning rotors to pull the pilot clear of any remaining, spinning rotors, I was blown away!  Just simply great innovation and design and execution.

The Zvezda K-37-800 rocket-assisted "EXTRACTION" system.  You can see the white canisters clearly in this pic here of the demo model.





And the only pic of I could find that shows a partial of the cable pulling out the seat & pilot.



I'm looking for the source that explains that secondary reason for the cable option getting caught intentionally on an un-dislodged rotor(s) blade(s) but can't find it ATM.  I'll certainly post the source and tag you if & when I do find it.  If anyone else knows of it or has it @LMFS or @KVS or @George or @Isos, please post it if it's not too much trouble.  Cheers.

Despite the following video being a digital animation of the extraction sequence with the canisters and cables that pull the pilots out it's still pretty decent.  This is pretty much it.  I hope you can at least watch a gaddam YouTube video on your ancient computer from the cretaceous period, Gary!

Yeah nobody else has those helicopter ejection seats. I think some were proposed and even designed but never made to full production.

Gomig-21 wrote:

I don't remember that any article I have read about the Ka-50, Ka-52 or the K-37-800 ejection system mentioning a specific purpose for uncleared rotor blades by faulty pyrotechnical bolts. I also find it a little bit hard to imagine if it would be safer.

The Ejection seats (canisters) are facing away from the rotor mast to avoid pulling the pilot into it. The Ejection of the canisters also will be affected by the trajectory, speed, height and positioning of the helicopter mid-flight. Just like in Jets, the ejection system will correct its trajectory and position upwards if the helicopter is banking while pilots are ejecting, but only after safe distance from the aircraft. This is performed to avoid premature collision with obstacles or ground.

Imagine one rotor blade is still attached and rotates while the ejection canister is firing off and pulling the pilot by chord, the canister passes and the rotating blade, which hits the chord and keeps on spinning (which it will). It will drag abruptly both pilot and ejection canister, tilting the canister side-wards, while the ejection canister still is ejecting and creating a thrust. I would imagine the abrupt tilt of the ejection canister will take more or less a parallel position to the pilot or even hitting him. One even worse possibility is, it could spin itself around the rotor blade. I can't imagine, that this solution would have a higher chance to clear the pilot from the remaining rotor blade and eject to safety.
I guess for this unlikely situation an ejection seat would have a higher chance passing one remaining attached rotor blade without killing the pilot.

The history of ejection systems for the Ka-50 was initially tested on a Mi-4. The Soviets had a very high interest in developing ejection seats for Helicopters because of how many Pilots have been lost. Not many but quite some have attempted to bail out of a helicopter like Mi-8 when it was in hit in combat or unpilotable due to failure and were killed by the rotor blades while trying to jump out.

Here is some footage of the Mi-4 that was used for tests to eject rotors for the first stage of ejection.
Really fascinating video! Watch it!!


There is also a test for the K-37-800 seats in Ka-52s.
Test include second and third phase of ejection which  are canopy destruction by pyrotechnical cord which are also used in jet fighters as well as the actual ejection of pilots by the K-37-800 ejection system.

You can see the pilot being ejected forward and away from the center to avoid collision with rotor mast or the co-pilot. Unlike the video game footage the pilots eject away from each other to avoid collision and possible burning by the flames created from the ejection canister.

Werewolf wrote:

I don't remember that any article I have read about the Ka-50, Ka-52 or the K-37-800 ejection system mentioning a specific purpose for uncleared rotor blades by faulty pyrotechnical bolts. I also find it a little bit hard to imagine if it would be safer.

The Ejection seats (canisters) are facing away from the rotor mast to avoid pulling the pilot into it. The Ejection of the canisters also will be affected by the trajectory, speed, height and positioning of the helicopter mid-flight. Just like in Jets, the ejection system will correct its trajectory and position upwards if the helicopter is banking while pilots are ejecting, but only after safe distance from the aircraft. This is performed to avoid premature collision with obstacles or ground.

Imagine one rotor blade is still attached and rotates while the ejection canister is firing off and pulling the pilot by chord, the canister passes and the rotating blade, which hits the chord and keeps on spinning (which it will). It will drag abruptly both pilot and ejection canister, tilting the canister side-wards, while the ejection canister still is ejecting and creating a thrust. I would imagine the abrupt tilt of the ejection canister will take more or less a parallel position to the pilot or even hitting him. One even worse possibility is, it could spin itself around the rotor blade. I can't imagine, that this solution would have a higher chance to clear the pilot from the remaining rotor blade and eject to safety.
I guess for this unlikely situation an ejection seat would have a higher chance passing one remaining attached rotor blade without killing the pilot.

I did have some reservations about the cable purposely getting caught on a remaining rotor blade when I read that, but somehow it did convince me.  I hope I can find that gaddam source to post it and really dissect it further.

It seems like it would be a pretty violent experience getting spun around by the rotor of a crashing helicopter.  It also seems like maybe there would be a chance to miss the vertical stabilizer if it was one of the top and higher rotor blades, but the lower ones would most certainly crank the pilot right into the rudder tail!  

The other thing is when, how and by whom or what does the cable get disconnected from the pilot?  At some point it has to get disconnected to free the pilot from the canister rocket and allow him to open his parachute.  I'll keep looking for that source but I do think you're most likely right on that.

Another pic of an EAF MiG-29M/M2 & F-16 with Nile Crocodiles flying above.

Interesting read. You will have to translate it on Google. USA trying to get Egypt to cancel Su-35 deal in return for F-15 or F-36. It's talks about why Egypt would never go for the deal.

https://inosmi.ru/20220704/su-35-254821285.html

d_taddei2 wrote:Interesting read. You will have to translate it on Google. USA trying to get Egypt to cancel Su-35 deal in return for F-15 or F-36. It's talks about why Egypt would never go for the deal.

https://inosmi.ru/20220704/su-35-254821285.html

Interesting article.  Some discrepancies here and there lol.  For example, it claims the US congress wants to offer the F-35 or F-15 to Egypt in exchange for cancelling the Su-35SE contract.  The problem with that title is that the F-35 was requested by Egypt way back in late 2017 early 2018 knowing quite well it would be refused.  The refusal would then give the EAF a very good reason to apply pressure on the US should it create friction against a future Su-35 purchase which the EAF always wanted in the first place.  

The news that the EAF was seeking 29 Su-35s came out in a local newscast way back in early 2017!  So they knew that even if a miracle happened and the US agreed to Egypt's request for the F-35 (which is did!!!  Trump, anyway, agreed) that it would be and inferior platform to all the F-35s out there, if it's even possible to do that to the turd.  But Egypt knew congress would deny it and they did in fact say nope, no way which was exactly what the EAF wanted and immediately after that, the contract for the Su-35s was signed.

Then during the 3rd year of the disastrous Trump administration, Pompeo came to Egypt and threatened CAATSA and said forget about the Su-35s and we'll give you F-15s.  So this is where we still stand as there has been several offers from the US like I mentioned earlier with downgraded F-15s etc. to which the Egyptian Air Force Chief said thanks, but no thanks.  In the meantime, EAF pilots are in Russia as we speak training on the Su-35s as if nothing has changed and the plan is still moving forward.  Although I do think the EAF is waiting for one final offer from the US despite the previous one being a supposed "take it or leave it" offer.

Honestly, I wish the EAF would give the US the middle finger and start accepting the deliveries of the Su-35SEs with hopefully a huge package of brutally lethal weapons including all Kh family missiles, the RVV-SD (export R-77-1) for sure!  The R-27E or AE (the one that is active seeking and not the one that is passive) and of course, the R-74M and R37M and much more.  Just those are the basic must haves IMO.

Back to the article, it says the EAF F-16 is the "worst in the world" lol simply because the US denied the AIM-120 AMRAAM.  It also claims they have "severely deteriorated avionics".  Not sure what they mean by that lol.  

All EAF F-16s have been upgraded to Block 40 standard including some of the earliest models in the A and 2-set Bs that were received in 1982!  They only recieved 8 of the F-16Bs and we just saw 4 of them flying a couple of weeks ago, in the pics below.

Then there are the 20 (actually 19 since one has crashed unfortunately) of the F-16 Block 52s.  So I highly doubt the avionics are "deteriorated" lol.  The block 40s and even the 52s could certainly use the latest Viper Upgrade and that seems to be something rumored the US is trying to offer with the F-15 package.  

Here's a couple of pics of the recent exercise Agile Pheonix with the USAF which mostly involved A2A refueling qualifications.  

These are the block 52s.





Some of the block 40s.



Block 52D and 52C, KC-135.



And these are the original F-16Bs (two-seaters) that were delivered in 1982!  40 years old and still in impeccable condition.  Only 8 of these were delivered, after that only D models of subsequent blocks were ordered for the 2-seaters.  So we know they have at least 4 of the 8 still active if not, more.  They also still have the 2nd ever delivered F-16A block 15 (now block 40) that was just shown recently and still in mint condition.  I'll post a pic of it later.

F-16Bs.





Extraordinary formation.

One of the better EAF videos showcasing the F-16s in EAF inventory and the recent exercise with the USAF which also unveiled a very interesting and new patch for the EAF Aggressor Squadron that operate the Block 52Cs and also conduct weapons training.





This was the participating USAF Desert Weasel Squadron, evolved from the original "Wild Weasels" of the Vietnam war which were strictly SEAD missioned squadrons.

Egyptian Buk M-2E and Tor M-2E air defense missile systems in interesting desert camo pattern.  A critical part of Egypt's complex, intricate & layered air defense system which incorporates both, the Protivnik-GE & the Rezonance-SE long range radars through a brand new indigenous command & control network center that is linked with all air force, navy, army and air defense assets which include the S-300VM, IRIS-T-SL and the Buk & Tor which the latter are also used as attached SAM units with armored brigades along with several of the other available mobile SAM systems.



The new Cairo administrative capital in the background.





Egyptian Navy Mistral LHD/helicopter carrier in the background of this pic.

@Sujoy, Indian Air Force visited the EAF last week and conducted quite a bit of flight exercises including formation flights of Indian Su-30MKIs and EAF MiG-29M/M2s as well as friendly rides in EAF F-16s.

The House just passed an amendment to restrict F-16 sales and modernization to Turkey. They really thought blackmailing Nato would be a good idea

Honestly, I wish the EAF would give the US the middle finger and start accepting the deliveries of the Su-35SEs with hopefully a huge package of brutally lethal weapons including all Kh family missiles, the RVV-SD (export R-77-1) for sure! The R-27E or AE (the one that is active seeking and not the one that is passive) and of course, the R-74M and R37M and much more. Just those are the basic must haves IMO.

R-27AE doesn't exist. It was just a proposal. Older R-27 are shitty for modern standards. The P version would be good however.

If I was in charge I would play on the fact that US is proposing the f-15 with sanctions if I buy the su-35 and ask for the R-77M and local production of an improved r-77-1 with better fuel and an AESA seaker to make it worth it getting sanctionned by the US.

GarryB wrote:
BTW...

Iran and Argentina want to join BRICS... but also:

https://www.rt.com/news/558960-saudi-turkey-egypt-brics/

Big guy, of all people you were the last I would've suspected would throw in a wicked OT post lol. Might have to move some of this dribble into the bullocks baloney thread.

TMA1 wrote:Anyways got a question about egyptian airforce. What is their legacy in fighters? Did they use more from the soviet bloc or from the western world?

That's a really interesting question, TMA1.  At first I would've probably said the F-16 has been a true workhorse for the EAF since it's been around for 40 years, plus there were 220 of them that were ordered through that span and used from patrolling missions to securing borders to bombing cretin hideouts in Libya and Sinai.  But then there was all the history of the venerable MiG-21 that was also in the EAF for almost 50 years as well as were superbly involved in the wars against the criminal invading forces.

A big reason for the MiG-21 to take that spot is that Air Force Day in Egypt is celebrated on October 14th every year to commemorate the air battle of Al Mansoura during the October War (aka Yom Kippur) where former president Hosni Mubarak was the air force chief at the time and plotted a defense of the Mansoura air base in the Nile Delta as they received intel that the Jews were going to attack that morning to disable the better of the EAF MiG-21 squadrons in the 104th Air Wing stationed there to create a distraction while they conducted their face-saving TV canal crossing to cut off both Egyptian armies (which failed spectacularly) that had taken control of the entire Bar Lev line on the east side of the canal and destroyed the ensuing Jewish counter attack with the first use of modern ATGMs in the great Soviet SAGGER and Egyptian soldier.  The gap between the 2nd army in the northern sector and the 3rd army in the southern part which the Jews penetrated through was right at the northern edge of the Bitter Lakes.  Ironically enough, it was discovered by a CIA/US Military SR-71 flight and relayed the info on the gap to the Jews.  Otherwise they would've never known about it.  More on the SR-71 at the end of this post.  

Well, that attack on Al Mansoura air base didn't quite work out the way the Jews had hoped thanks to EAF MiG-21s as radars picked up a huge gaggle of Jewish jets approaching the northern coast of Egypt and Mubarak waited till the time was right and launched 62 EAF MiG-21s to meet and attack around 160 Jewish F-4 Phantoms and A-4 Skyhawks.  The air battle lasted about an hour (the whole sky was filled with dogfighting aerials) resulting in 17 Jewish jets shot down by EAF MiG-21s to 3 EAF MiGs shot down and 3 crashing as a result of running out of fuel.

The MiG-21 stayed in the EAF service all the way until right around 2013-15 or so until the modernization process with Rafales and MiG-29M/Ms etc. began.  So it could be said that the MiG-21 was the EAF's mainstay or legacy aircraft because of its longevity in the service of the Egyptian Air Force as well as that historic participation and success in the wars.  

Another aspect for the MiG-21 claiming that spot is that the first ever recorded A2A kill by the MiG-21 was by an Egyptian one in 1964.  The story is amazing and shame on that US cargo plane that didn't taking the interception orders very seriously and paid the ultimate price when one of the intercepting EAF MiG-21s raked a burst of cannon fire across its fuselage that sent it plummeting down into a fiery desert crash.  Here's the story:

In 1964, the MiG-21 Scored Its First Kill — Against an American Oil Company
A private C-82 fell prey to circumstances ... and MiGs



The Soviet MiG-21 is one of the most widely-produced and -exported fighter jets of all time. In the United States, the MiG-21 is perhaps best known for hunting American warplanes over Vietnam. The single-engine fighter is equally famous for its participation in various wars in the Middle East over the last half-century.

You might therefore expect that the MiG-21’s first air-to-air kill occurred over Vietnam or the Middle East. In fact, the MiG’s first victim was a star-crossed oil-company plane blundering across Egypt.

Egypt was the second Arab nation the USSR allowed to import MiG-21s. Cairo and Moscow signed a deal for the fighters in June 1961, stipulating delivery of 48 aircraft together with associated support equipment.

The first batch of disassembled MiG-21F-13s arrived by ship in Alexandria in November 1961. Assembled and ground-tested by a group of Soviet specialists led by Col. V. E. Slugin, these aircraft entered service with two newly-created units — No. 40 and No. 47 Squadrons of Air Group 7 of what was then officially the “United Arab Republic Air Force,” or UARAF.

As deliveries of the remaining MiGs from this order continued through 1962 and 1963, they enabled the Egyptians to establish two additional units — No. 43 and No. 45 Squadrons.


The pilot of an Egyptian MiG-21F-13 as seen in his “office.” David Nicolle Collection


By early 1964, detachments from one of these four units were regularly deploying to Meliz Air Base in central Sinai — better known in the West as “Bir Gifgafa” or by its Israeli designation “Refidim.”

Originally built by the Royal Air Force during World War II, Meliz was a modern installation. Construction of a hardened runway began in 1956 but was interrupted by the Suez War. The work was completed following the Israelis’ withdrawal from Sinai in 1957.

In 1964, Meliz became the hub of UARAF operations over Sinai. The MiG-21 detachments got bigger and longer, partly in response to frequent Israeli reconnaissance flights through Egyptian air space. Another reason was the worsening tensions between Egypt and the United States over a number of issues, including the crisis in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

The UARAF’s MiG-21F-13s scrambled several times in reaction to various incursions. In at least one instance in July or August 1964, two MiG-21F-13s managed to fire at least one R-3S missile — the NATO code name is AA-2 Atoll — each at two Dassault Mirages withdrawing toward Israel. Both weapons missed due to the high speed at which the Israelis were escaping.

On Nov. 28, 1964, hostility between Cairo and Washington boiled over. Egyptian authorities granted permission for several hundred Congolese to demonstrate in front of the main U.S. compound in Cairo. Within minutes, the protest turned into a riot. The protesters torched the newly christened John F. Kennedy Library and the nearby Marine barracks before attempting to storm the U.S. embassy.

U.S. Marines eventually subdued the protests outside the embassy. Egyptian authorities did nothing. It was against this backdrop that on the morning of Dec. 10, 1964 another unknown aircraft violated Egyptian air space over the Sinai Peninsula — and UARAF MiG-21s from Melis scrambled to intercept


The C-82 Packet never won any beauty contest, but was highly influential on the subsequent development of the highly-successful C-119 and the French-made Noratlas transport. U.S. Air Force photo


The aircraft in question was a Fairchild C-82A Packet transport owned by John Mecom Oil Company of Houston, Texas. John Whitfield Mecom, Sr. was an American oilman specialized in the acquisition and refurbishment of abandoned oil wells. In 1957, his firm was the third-largest independent oil company in the world. Over the time, Mecom befriended U.S. president Lyndon Johnson and became one of his most important donors.

The C-82A was a rather ungainly and unpopular aircraft. Its principal importance was to serve as the basis for the much more successful Fairchild C-119 Flying Boxcar, which the U.S. Air Force deployed in large numbers. In 1949, the French extensively test-flew the C-82. However, Paris eventually opted to develop its own variant of the Packet. This became the Nord 2501 Noratlass.

Between 1960 and 1963, Israel bought a sizeable batch of Nord 2501s. Mecom’s C-82 had the misfortune of looking a lot like an Israeli plane.

On Dec. 10, 1964, C-82 serial number 45-57794 — registered as N128E and piloted by American Hoyt Williams of Texas and Swedish co-pilot Kjell Grupp — was flying from Amman, Jordan to Benghazi in Libya to pick up drilling detergent for Mecom’s operations in Saudi Arabia.

Problems marred the flight even before take-off. Williams failed to forward the flight plan to Cairo days in advance, as was standard at that time. Then his aircraft developed a technical problem and took off from Amman International more than one hour late.

Almost immediately afterward, the crew experienced several radio problems and failed to deliver position reports. Nevertheless, Williams continued his flight south, then turned west upon reaching Aqaba.


The crash site of the ill-fated C-82. Nour Bardai Collection

At 8:04 in the morning local time, as the C-82 entered Egyptian air space over the Sinai Desert south of Aqaba, two MiG-21F-13s scrambled from Meliz. From the Egyptian perspective, the situation was anything but clear. An unknown aircraft on an unannounced flight — and thus lacking over-flight clearance — was approaching from the general direction of Israel.

The MiGs intercepted the C-82 and, unable to establish radio communication, their pilots instructed the crew to land at Cairo International. Initially at least, Williams followed their instructions. After passing Ras Sudar on the Red Sea coast, he descended to an altitude of 10,500 feet and turned in the direction of Cairo International.

Williams attempted several times to contact flight control — without success. When the C-82 reached a point around 70 miles northwest of Cairo International, the two MiGs — by now critically short of fuel — departed.

At this point and for reasons that aren’t clear, Williams changed his mind. Instead of landing at Cairo International, he turned his aircraft toward Alexandria. Initially following a narrow commercial air corridor, at some point he made a slight turn toward the west, directly toward a prohibited military zone.

The UARAF scrambled another pair of MiG-21s — this time from Inchas Air Base. Their pilots quickly intercepted the lumbering transport and fired their 30-millimeter cannons across its nose in order to warn the crew. When there was no reaction, they aimed for the engines. At 10:17, multiple cannon rounds ripped apart one of the C-82’s engines and the wing.

The C-82 crashed in flames in the swamp near Lake Idku on the shore of the Mediterranean Sea some 20 miles east of Alexandria. It was found approximately 10 miles from the center of the commercial corridor, its wreckage scattered over 800 square yards. Both crew were dead. A civilian transport owned by a U.S. company thus became the MiG-21’s first kill.

Source.

People who don't know this fact probably automatically assume that the MiG-21's first kill was most likely in Vietnam because of the Vietnamese early successes against US Phantoms etc., or maybe an incident involving a Soviet MiG-21 since the aircraft was created by the Soviet Union.  But nope, it was by an Egyptian Air Force pilot flying the Ferrari of MiG-21s in the F-13 way back in 1964.

As for the SR-71 story - prior to the ill-fated Jewish attempt on Al Mansoura, on October 13th, 1973, the US sent an SR-71 all the way from New York and it started photographing the battlefield in the Sinai as it flew across the Sinai up the Suez Canal and over Cairo onto the Mediterranean.  This specific mission was the interesting one since it picked up that intel on the gap and the US gave that info to the Jews which then took advantage of it.  But the more interesting part was that SR-71 flight (which was the 1st of 9 missions the US flew over both battlefields, the Syrian Golan and Egypt's Sinai) had the SR-71 picked up by Egyptian air defense radars and they notified the Chief of Staff the great General Saad El Shazly to ask permission to shoot it down with SA-2 missiles.  And just like the great and super brilliant military man that he was (may he rest in peace) told the fellas at the radar stations and missile sites not to bother because by the time they targeted it and locked onto it, it would just kick in the afterburners and disappear faster than the missiles could catch up to it and he didn't want to waste any of those valuable missiles.  Had the EADS possessed the S-300VM at the time, it might've been used and possibly brought the Blackbird down.

That SR-71 mission took 5 A2A refuelings to make it from NY to Sinai & Syria and back to North Carolina.



Source.

Excellent stuff. Man everyone fixates on the mig-21bis and rightfully so, but the mig-21f-13 was truly when the mig-21 came into it's own. The bis was heavier and loaded with more fuel and gear, but the mig-21f-13 was a hot rod of a fighter, kinda like the f-104.

Yeah the mig-21 has an amazing track record and is probably the greatest fighter of the early-mid cold war. Again thanks for the stories. Now I'm going to check out the war you were talking about between Israel and Egypt. Sounds fascinating.

Gomig-21 wrote:
they conducted their face-saving TV canal crossing to cut off both Egyptian armies (which failed spectacularly)

The second army certainly.

 

The gap between the 2nd army in the northern sector and the 3rd army in the southern part which the Jews penetrated through was right at the northern edge of the Bitter Lakes.  Ironically enough, it was discovered by a CIA/US Military SR-71 flight and relayed the info on the gap to the Jews.  Otherwise they would've never known about it.  

Sharon had been probing around the 9th and is said to have discovered it.

Well, that attack on Al Mansoura air base didn't quite work out the way the Jews had hoped thanks to EAF MiG-21s as radars picked up a huge gaggle of Jewish jets approaching the northern coast of Egypt and Mubarak waited till the time was right and launched 62 EAF MiG-21s to meet and attack around 160 Jewish F-4 Phantoms and A-4 Skyhawks.

According to Tom Cooper's research in the ARAB MIGs vol. 6, those figures were greatly exaggerated. The Israelis committed 27 Phantoms in three groups.

 The air battle lasted about an hour (the whole sky was filled with dogfighting aerials) resulting in 17 Jewish jets shot down by EAF MiG-21s to 3 EAF MiGs shot down and 3 crashing as a result of running out of fuel.

Cooper says the whole battle was hyped to enhance the status of Mubarack, who was associated with Sadat, whereas Shazly was a sidelined…Cooper found no corroboration for any claim on the 14th except one Israeli loss resulting from friendly fire. The best performance of EAF MIG-21s was actually the Benha scrap a few days earlier.
Just like in the old Iran forum--deja vu!

TMA1 wrote:Excellent stuff. Man everyone fixates on the mig-21bis and rightfully so, but the mig-21f-13 was truly when the mig-21 came into it's own. The bis was heavier and loaded with more fuel and gear, but the mig-21f-13 was a hot rod of a fighter, kinda like the f-104.

It may have been the EAF's best dogfighter, as it had a better, 30mm gun whereas other variants had a 23mm gun or none. But it had issues...

Yeah the mig-21 has an amazing track record and is probably the greatest fighter of the early-mid cold war.

All or most variants had poor cockpit visibility, limited endurance and ineffective weapons like the atoll. And it showed...

Again thanks for the stories. Now I'm going to check out the war you were talking about between Israel and Egypt. Sounds fascinating.

See the ARAB MIGs volumes and also my blog posts.

Anyways got a question about egyptian airforce. What is their legacy in fighters? Did they use more from the soviet bloc or from the western world?

They were soviet allies and got the best that soviet could offer for a very low price.

But after they losses against Israel which was mostly because of their lack of training (arab politicians have no trust in their military so even if they are big armies they generally have bad records) they switch at 100% for US stuff at Camp David negociations.

They thought Israeli were better because they had US equipment which wasn't true and bought US equipement. US and Israeli were very happy because since then they totally control egypt's strength and make sure that egyptians can't threaten Israel anymore but be at israeli mercy at anytime.

Egyptian f-16 have no chance to face israeli f-16. Tge politics were then total US bitches.

Then Sissi came to power. He has no trust in the US and started ordering from Russia and europeans. Big amount of money was spent on that but they are still dependant on the US specially for ground and naval forces. Air defences are from russians for a big part. Air force is a mix of US, Ru, EU planes but a big part depend on the US.