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    Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2


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    Post  d_taddei2 Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:29 am

    Anyone know if this has any credibility? I Know the source can be dubious at times.

    Basically states Iran had signed up to buy the 24 Egyptian destined Su-35, and will also buy a second batch of 36. Also buying two batteries of S-400. And has already set up hangers to receive them as well as hangers for Russia to upgrade it's Su-24 and it's mig-29 to SMT level. Seems a big deal if remotely true.


    https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2022/09/04/iran-buys-24-sukhoi-su-35-flanker-e-fighters-produced-for-egypt/
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Sep 06, 2022 1:30 am

    Talks happened. No official statement about contracts. But it doesn't sound unrealistic.

    Iran rejected su-30 offers because they wanted su-35 in the past. Egyptian su-35 are already built and waiting for a client.

    In terms of number it should be close to iranian needs.

    S-400 was already analyzed by Iran and they were waiting for an offer too.

    The modernization of older plane is also realistic. Iranians have upgraded old aircraft as much as they could.

    I expect an order for mig-29M or mig-35 now that their oil will bring lot of cash from the west.

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:25 am

    Sounds reasonable in theory but Iran is in the middle of an economic crisis right now, riots, etc.
    Too many dry seasons and not enough water mean not enough food, need for food imports, and then you have current world food situation.

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:32 am

    lancelot wrote:Sounds reasonable in theory but Iran is in the middle of an economic crisis right now, riots, etc.
    Too many dry seasons and not enough water mean not enough food, need for food imports, and then you have current world food situation.

    I can imagine there will be a massive supply of food to Iran from Russia since russia isn't too keen on supplying to enemy countries.

    It would be in russias best interest at least.

    Maybe you may know something on this so I'll ask, couldn't Iran also look to desalination plants for water? I know that water specifically isn't best for agriculture but maybe help reduce water consumption on water that can be used for agriculture.
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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:45 am

    ... while Iran will share a favor by supplying Afghanistan all the gas&oil the Taliban will ask for, to get some nice deliveries of lithium ore or rare earths as a payment. Nice cargos will just sail via Caspian, to make us sure why the Iranians want to double the size and totally replace with the new ones all the commercial fleet they operate there, with help of Russian shipyards.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:14 am

    Egypt would have to agree to such a thing, because they would have already have rejected the Su-35s for them to be available to just hand over to Iran.

    And obviously the question would be... does Iran actually want Su-35s fitted out specifically to Egypts specifications or will they need to be adapted... and why does Bulgaria know first?

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    starman
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    Post  starman Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:Egypt would have to agree to such a thing, because they would have already have rejected the Su-35s for them to be available to just hand over to Iran.

    They haven't done that already?

    And obviously the question would be... does Iran actually want Su-35s fitted out specifically to Egypts specifications or will they need to be adapted…

    I don't think Egypt wanted SU-35s to fight ISIS in Sinai (not any more than it wanted S-300s for that purpose Laughing ). Notwithstanding decades of peace with Israel, Egypt must be ready for all eventualities. I'd assume Egyptian SU-35s (if they really became Egyptian) are intended to thwart Israeli air force attacks. That, of course, is exactly what Iran would use them for. So maybe existing specifications are satisfactory.

    and why does Bulgaria know first?

    Bulgaria has been close to Russia.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:49 pm

    GarryB wrote:Egypt would have to agree to such a thing, because they would have already have rejected the Su-35s for them to be available to just hand over to Iran.

    And obviously the question would be... does Iran actually want Su-35s fitted out specifically to Egypts specifications or will they need to be adapted... and why does Bulgaria know first?


    Who cares about egypt ? They were supposed to take the sukhois, they didn't. It's not theirs and they never paid for them. Russia respected its obligations, Egypt didn't. They can sell the sukhoi to anyone they want.

    Egypt will have to order them again if it still wants su-35.

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    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:17 pm

    Sounds like the egyptions have not made a firm call yet.
    Leaving things in limbo for now.
    If they take too long Russia will have to make the call for them.
    Also, we know iran would be interested, but there is also Algeria, they might want those flankers too.

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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:Egypt would have to agree to such a thing, because they would have already have rejected the Su-35s for them to be available to just hand over to Iran.

    And obviously the question would be... does Iran actually want Su-35s fitted out specifically to Egypts specifications or will they need to be adapted... and why does Bulgaria know first?


    The way I see it Russia has built these aircraft and Egypt is dragging it's feet Sukhoi need to recoup it's investment and Russia can make some money from this deal. Aircraft can't just sit around waiting for someone to decide if they want them or not. And there is nothing stopping Egypt arranging another deal when they feel ready to fully accept them and not be scared of uncle Sam.

    As for the rest of the deal I find it plausible. Only maybe that their mig-29A might be better scrapped and new built mig-29m or even better mig-35 be built instead. Su-24 is worth upgrading as is the half squadron of Su-25 to SM3 level.

    They could still sign deal with china to replace it's J-7 with JF-17 Thunder/ FC-1 Xiaolong. And kowsar to replace it's F-5.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:08 pm

    Well they need the migs to counter pakistani and turkish f-16.

    The sunni arab countries have bought a shit ton of modern Rafale, f-16, f-15X, Typhoon and f-35 for Israel. They will need in the medium term some su-75 and their su-35 will need the r-77M.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:45 am

    Well if 24 Su-35 have been already built then it is advantageous to deliver them to the country that needs them first (especially if Egypt is "dragging its feet) . And Iran probably has more need to upgrade their fleet ASAP.

    Anyway, I still believe that both Egypt and Iran would benefit more from Mig-35 or Mig-29M than Su-35. Especially since both countries have already pilots trained on MiG-29.

    The main difference between the two countries is that Russia could help Iran organise an assembly line for either Mig-35 or Su-35 (like they have done with India for MiG-29 and Su-30) , but the same is less feasible in Egypt.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Sep 07, 2022 11:53 am

    The distance between MiG-29 Iranians operates and MiG-29M/35 is not much different from Su-35. A whole new generation. The view out of a cockpit would be the only thing those pilots are used to Laughing It is not much advantage.
    Both Egypt and Iran are waste countries that need a fast, big radious&powerfull radar multirole plane to cover it.
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:08 pm

    ALAMO wrote:The distance between MiG-29 Iranians operates and MiG-29M/35 is not much different from Su-35. A whole new generation. The view out of a cockpit would be the only thing those pilots are used to Laughing It is not much advantage.
    Both Egypt and Iran are waste countries that need a fast, big radious&powerfull radar multirole plane to cover it.
    Is the Hesa Kowsar a good trainer aircraft as a stepping stone to 4.5 generation aircrafts? If not Iran may also need either some yak-130 or some help to modernize the Kowsar.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:11 pm

    They haven't done that already?

    I don't know... have they rejected them, or have they delayed delivery in fear of a US (over)reaction.

    I don't think Egypt wanted SU-35s to fight ISIS in Sinai (not any more than it wanted S-300s for that purpose Laughing ). Notwithstanding decades of peace with Israel, Egypt must be ready for all eventualities. I'd assume Egyptian SU-35s (if they really became Egyptian) are intended to thwart Israeli air force attacks. That, of course, is exactly what Iran would use them for. So maybe existing specifications are satisfactory.

    Sukhoi is known for customising their equipment to the customers needs, and Egypts needs are not identical to Irans... not to mention Egypts tastes and preferences might be different, as well as some things might be considered OK for Russia to sell to Egypt and not Iran or vice versa...

    Bulgaria has been close to Russia.

    So the fact that they are blabbing suggests they have permission.... are testing the waters... I would say US and EU escalation of the types of weapons they are sending to the Orcs would be a very good excuse to sell almost anything Iran or Egypt want while ignoring US and EU and Israeli fears and concerns... but of course that would mean they would also need to be prepared to back down if their goals are met.

    What I mean is... is it OK to say you are going to sell Su-35s to Iran because of western weapons transfers to Kiev... but if the US behind closed doors then offers to halt all weapon deliveries to Kiev if Russia does not deliver Su-35s and other weapons to Iran... then how does Russia then say to Iran they can't have that stuff?

    Releasing the information via Bulgaria might be a way to bring up the subject, but that would suggest that if Russia does not sell these Su-35s to Iran that Egypt would get them instead.

    Who cares about egypt ? They were supposed to take the sukhois, they didn't. It's not theirs and they never paid for them. Russia respected its obligations, Egypt didn't. They can sell the sukhoi to anyone they want.

    Do we know this? Is there proof Egypt didn't pay anything, is there proof they have rejected delivery, as far as I know they are delaying delivery to soften the blow towards the US, and they are concealing that they paid for them to make that delay mean anything, but that is just supposition on my part.

    Egypt will have to order them again if it still wants su-35.

    Or Su-57s...

    Well they need the migs to counter pakistani and turkish f-16.

    Iranian licence production MiG-29Ms (MiG-35s?) could replace their F-4s and F-5s, while the Su-35 could replace their F-14s...

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    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:14 pm

    He didn't claim that. He wrote that high losses incurred by the first wave caused cancellation of the second. Btw TC's newer work is more likely to be true, in his own judgment, than his older version.

    Sounds like another way of saying "the EAF has failed" , 2% is considered a high loss ? this guy is high for sure  , the estimations from soviets mentioned EAF would lose nearly 30% of their airforce on the first attack .

    Pollback is thinking the US went to liberate Iraq and destroy the WMD there ,lol as i said before he is a former CIA  , may be he was upset because Egypt destroyed the CIA rented oil rig  "Kenting " for Israel , was destroyed in the presence of Mossad and CIA agents in Abidjan to protect their astronauts Laughing  .

    Of course they failed to neutralize the EAF, but the IAF didn't suffer losses on the 14th, except for one due to "friendly fire."
    Well some of their sources said 2 IAF and 5 EAF were destroyed , well the point is the Israeli Air Force returned from al-Mansoura exhausted  ,lost  planes ,burned fuel, wasted ammunition and achieved nothing of the planned targets .
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:45 pm

    Do we know this? Is there proof Egypt didn't pay anything, is there proof they have rejected delivery, as far as I know they are delaying delivery to soften the blow towards the US, and they are concealing that they paid for them to make that delay mean anything, but that is just supposition on my part.

    They have been sitting at russian airport for almost 2 years now. Egyptians have back up from tge contract.

    Russians have the same problem as you. They come up with dumb ideas when they face reality.

    They need to sue Egypt for not respecting the contract and sell the su-35 to anyone who wants it including Iran.

    They were dumb during soviet times to gift planes and let other "friendly" countries use them like a condom just to end up being US bitch and prote ting US interest. What Egypt did last 50 years. **** them, ask for reparation and sell the sukhois. If they want new ones they will have to order. If they get angry just tell them to **** off and be the next Lybia when Israel feel like they are a danger for them.

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    ahmedfire
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    Post  ahmedfire Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:11 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Do we know this? Is there proof Egypt didn't pay anything, is there proof they have rejected delivery, as far as I know they are delaying delivery to soften the blow towards the US, and they are concealing that they paid for them to make that delay mean anything, but that is just supposition on my part.

    They have been sitting at russian airport for almost 2 years now. Egyptians have back up from tge contract.

    Russians have the same problem as you. They come up with dumb ideas when they face reality.

    They need to sue Egypt for not respecting the contract and sell the su-35 to anyone who wants it including Iran.

    They were dumb during soviet times to gift planes and let other "friendly" countries use them like a condom just to end up being US bitch and prote ting US interest. What Egypt did last 50 years. **** them, ask for reparation and sell the sukhois. If they want new ones they will have to order. If they get angry just tell them to **** off and be the next Lybia when Israel feel like they are a danger for them.

    You speaking as you know the whole reality , nothing is confirmed ,also you can't read the history without taking in consideration the circumstances at that time .

    You need a list of weapons that Egypt has purchased from Russia last decades ? go search for it ,also Egypt got already some Mig-29M2 .

    Don't worry there is no next Libya in Egypt , why i feels like you are ordering the Russian government or something like that Laughing  , the relations level at it's top ,Rosatom started work on Egypt's first nuclear power plant and local currencies will be used between the two countries .
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    joker88


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    Post  joker88 Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:35 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Do we know this? Is there proof Egypt didn't pay anything, is there proof they have rejected delivery, as far as I know they are delaying delivery to soften the blow towards the US, and they are concealing that they paid for them to make that delay mean anything, but that is just supposition on my part.

    They have been sitting at russian airport for almost 2 years now. Egyptians have back up from tge contract.

    Russians have the same problem as you. They come up with dumb ideas when they face reality.

    They need to sue Egypt for not respecting the contract and sell the su-35 to anyone who wants it including Iran.

    They were dumb during soviet times to gift planes and let other "friendly" countries use them like a condom just to end up being US bitch and prote ting US interest. What Egypt did last 50 years. **** them, ask for reparation and sell the sukhois. If they want new ones they will have to order. If they get angry just tell them to **** off and be the next Lybia when Israel feel like they are a danger for them.
    Speaks politely about Egypt, this is a warning, you always insult Egypt
    If it were not for Egypt now, you would not even know that you will collect your oil in the Arab world and in some European countries.
    I won't let you insult my country
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    Post  joker88 Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:39 pm

    Egypt wants to become like Libya, you dream
    Egypt is not weak
    The Su-35 is Egyptian, and its dues have been paid, as well as the support from mid-2021 to mid-2022. If you do not know, go back to the pages, you will find all this
    It's not my problem that you are ignorant but don't spit shit out of your mouth when you don't know anything
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    Post  joker88 Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:48 pm

    He talks as if he knows what we're going through
    If we wanted to betray Russia, we would send the Ka-52 and MiG-29 to Ukraine and take free armament, better than the Russian one, but we maintain relations.
    Don't think like a patient, you scumbags, because Egypt is not weak
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    Post  joker88 Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:53 pm

    ahmedfire wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    Do we know this? Is there proof Egypt didn't pay anything, is there proof they have rejected delivery, as far as I know they are delaying delivery to soften the blow towards the US, and they are concealing that they paid for them to make that delay mean anything, but that is just supposition on my part.

    They have been sitting at russian airport for almost 2 years now. Egyptians have back up from tge contract.

    Russians have the same problem as you. They come up with dumb ideas when they face reality.

    They need to sue Egypt for not respecting the contract and sell the su-35 to anyone who wants it including Iran.

    They were dumb during soviet times to gift planes and let other "friendly" countries use them like a condom just to end up being US bitch and prote ting US interest. What Egypt did last 50 years. **** them, ask for reparation and sell the sukhois. If they want new ones they will have to order. If they get angry just tell them to **** off and be the next Lybia when Israel feel like they are a danger for them.

    You speaking as you know the whole reality , nothing is confirmed ,also you can't read the history without taking in consideration the circumstances at that time .

    You need a list of weapons that Egypt has purchased from Russia last decades ? go search for it ,also Egypt got already some Mig-29M2 .

    Don't worry there is no next Libya in Egypt , why i feels like you are ordering the Russian government or something like that Laughing  , the relations level at it's top ,Rosatom started work on Egypt's first nuclear power plant and local currencies will be used between the two countries .
    You talk to him and he understands something
    He almost doesn't know what he's talking about
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    Post  joker88 Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:01 pm

    Isos wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Egypt would have to agree to such a thing, because they would have already have rejected the Su-35s for them to be available to just hand over to Iran.

    And obviously the question would be... does Iran actually want Su-35s fitted out specifically to Egypts specifications or will they need to be adapted... and why does Bulgaria know first?


    Who cares about egypt ? They were supposed to take the sukhois, they didn't. It's not theirs and they never paid for them. Russia respected its obligations, Egypt didn't. They can sell the sukhoi to anyone they want.

    Egypt will have to order them again if it still wants su-35.
    I want a source on this, or you remain silent forever, and you have nothing to do with the Egyptian issue
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    Post  joker88 Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:10 pm

    end of transmitter
    The Egyptian training is still going on so far on the Su-35. If there is a cancellation, I will be the first to publish
    Until this moment, the deal is Egyptian
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:40 pm

    They have been sitting at russian airport for almost 2 years now. Egyptians have back up from tge contract.

    Russians have the same problem as you. They come up with dumb ideas when they face reality.

    You are French so you should understand... things like fighter aircraft and helicopter carriers are expensive and you don't just make some because Egypt or France or Russia say they want something... you have contracts and money changes hands to actually build the products.

    Now I am sure you will also understand that after the product is produced that some mental country like the US suddenly demands no one can buy those planes or those carriers without their approval or they will economically and politically attack and damage them that this can change the situation.

    Egypt has not announced AFAIK that they are buying the planes... for all we know they might actually be for Iran or Algeria for that matter... Hell even Turkey might be buying them but all want to wait before they reveal it to that bully country that has such terrible tantrums.

    We know someone has a contract, but we don't know what that contract might be... if Egypt has paid for the planes then they have paid for the planes... I doubt Sukhoi or Russia care very much if they deliver them now or in 5 years time.

    If they are not paid for then whoever they are for has no right to demand they be kept so they can be sold to recover costs, but we don't know that that is the case and your assuming is not helping.

    They need to sue Egypt for not respecting the contract and sell the su-35 to anyone who wants it including Iran.

    They know the drill, I don't see any evidence that anyone is breaking any contract, otherwise words would be said... there is no good time to tell a bully you just bought a taser...

    The key is to get it and make sure you can use it properly and know how to handle it so he can't take it off you so to speak.

    No point getting a weapon of defence if it creates the perfect pretext for an attack.

    They were dumb during soviet times to gift planes and let other "friendly" countries use them like a condom just to end up being US bitch and prote ting US interest.

    This might be an ace up Russias sleeve, they might be suggesting to Egypt that delaying delivery might be something they can use if America keeps sending weapons to Ukraine that sending Su-35s to Egypt and Iran might be their response... but if it is as I said before they need to be able to back track, which means both Egypt and Iran need to be aware that if the US does backtrack they might not be getting those planes... but then conversely they might use it just as a red line so when the US provides something that Russia is upset about then they can go ahead with sales to Egypt and Iran as a response to US and EU aggression in Ukraine...

    What Egypt did last 50 years. **** them, ask for reparation and sell the sukhois. If they want new ones they will have to order. If they get angry just tell them to **** off and be the next Lybia when Israel feel like they are a danger for them.

    Egypt is in an awkward position of Americas making... why blame them for this?

    If it wasn't for America these planes would be delivered to Egypt and everyone else who wants them... America is the problem... punish America.

    end of transmitter
    The Egyptian training is still going on so far on the Su-35. If there is a cancellation, I will be the first to publish
    Until this moment, the deal is Egyptian

    There is no evidence that Egypt has changed its mind about anything and I think it is kinda funny that a French man is telling Russians not to trust Egypt regarding military contracts.

    Both states are countries, not people and certainly not children... they will do what suits their needs best and I suspect for Egypt that means taking ownership of their planes eventually.

    Someone can't criticise them for something you have no proof they have done or not done...

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