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    Russia's naval doctrine and strategy

    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:06 pm

    Russia was always going to expand and modernize its navy, the issue was always the lack of proper infustructure and industrial capabilities, which would reqiure at least a decade to rebuild.
    Its been more than 10yrs since Russia began its rearmament so they are very much on schedule, the biggest problem for the Russian navy is simply the political will to properly rearm the Navy.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:46 am

    From a wider perspective, leaving Spitsbergen with the end of the Soviet Union turned out to be another in a line of mistakes that won't be easy to fix. Russians have a foot on the ground there, while any try to return the status quo there will be presented as Russkies thirsty and violent invasion against a NATO member.
    Nobody will really care that Norway broke de facto any of the points of the Spitsbergen treaty, starting from the militarisation of the archipelago under cover of air safety.

    HATO never lets the facts get in the way of a good story... hense Russia started the war in Syria and in Georgia and the Crimea and now the Donbass... pretty sure they started WWII together with Germany as well...

    The point is that the Norwegians backtracked on their blockade of that region very quickly when the Russians mentioned a complete revisit of the agreements over that region for air and sea and land rights and that a new agreement might be needed.

    All of a sudden the issue was resolved and material was suddenly on its way... maybe they should follow through and have a revision examined...

    You need to do something with this rain of cash falling down on you because of ... ekhm ... sanctions

    The west gave them no choice... submit to be a western colony for the US to plunder or you are out... I knew their future didn't lie with the west but I didn't realise the west was going to help them so much and to fund the whole transition away from the west.

    Pretty funny really.

    Priority will likely also be given to destroyer sized ships like the modified Gorskov, and they will need overseas bases and support ships for this expansion. Not to mention naval aviation!

    I an not so sure they see the improved Gorshkov as being a destroyer... it is more like an enlarged and more useful frigate that is more versatile and independent and more multirole.

    I rather suspect their new design destroyers and new design cruisers will be nuclear powered and all electric drive type vessels.

    Most things in the sphere of naval operations take decades and lots and lots of planning and preparation, but all these years of rebuilding Russian towns and cities and also populated areas in former war zones like South Ossetia and Syria and now the Ukraine they will be in a good position to build up infrastructure in lots of places they trade with, which should make, if not Russian bases on foreign territory, then at least Russia friendly ports more common and more positive.

    the biggest problem for the Russian navy is simply the political will to properly rearm the Navy.

    The biggest problems have been low hanging fruit... it is easier for ammo makers in Russia to sell in bulk to German and American companies and have them sell on to other countries in smaller batches so Russian companies don't have to worry about the logistics and complexity and issues down the track, but they were not doing that to help Russia... it enabled them to make good money selling Russian products to third parties around the world and made their hand more powerful because if you buy from them you get diversity, but if you don't sell this or that (ie lithium or oil or cobolt or whatever they need at the time) then it was another string they could cut to inflict pain on you.

    Trading directly they can cut out the middle man and get more control and also more control of prices the customers pay for their products etc.

    Once more countries realise BRICS is not about China or Russia telling the other members what to do and more importantly how to think and what model government they must have the way the US does with the west then more and more countries will want to join...
    Tolstoy
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    Post  Tolstoy Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:42 am

    LMFS wrote:It is also noted that Russia plans to expand cooperation with Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia, as well as naval cooperation with India. "The priorities of the national maritime policy in the Indo-Pacific regional direction are the development of strategic partnership and naval cooperation with the Republic of India, as well as the expansion of cooperation with the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Republic of Iraq, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and other states of the region,"
    How does this help Russia?

    Iran is important because only Iran can create a corridor from Russia to the Indian Ocean. Saudi Arabia too needs to be waned away from the Yankees, and help regulate oil price, so that makes the Saudis an important partner. But what purpose does India and Iraq serve? Both are dirt poor, failed states that offer little or nothing to Russia.

    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:42 am

    Tolstoy wrote:How does this help Russia?

    Iran is important because only Iran can create a corridor from Russia to the Indian Ocean. Saudi Arabia too needs to be waned away from the Yankees, and help regulate oil price, so that makes the Saudis an important partner. But what purpose does India and Iraq serve? Both are dirt poor, failed states that offer little or nothing to Russia.

    You are doing a fine effort to sound deranged aren't you?
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:52 pm

    India is the most populated country. Now that chinese are asking for higher living standards, companies will start producing in India and make it the in the top 5 world economy.

    A huge clients for russian raw materials and energy.
    Tolstoy
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    Post  Tolstoy Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:42 am

    Isos wrote:India is the most populated country. Now that chinese are asking for higher living standards, companies will start producing in India and make it the in the top 5 world economy.

    A huge clients for russian raw materials and energy.
    India can't even make the metallic point of a pen.  Can't even make elastic band used in underwear.  India just can't innovate.

    Dmitri Mendeleev was a poor school teacher and yet he designed the periodic table. AK-47 was designed by lowly sergeant recovering in hospital. It is culture that produces men of reckoning. India lacks any such culture.

    At best they will continue to import oil and gas from Russia.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:44 am

    Iran is important because only Iran can create a corridor from Russia to the Indian Ocean. Saudi Arabia too needs to be waned away from the Yankees, and help regulate oil price, so that makes the Saudis an important partner. But what purpose does India and Iraq serve? Both are dirt poor, failed states that offer little or nothing to Russia.

    Don't mean to be rude but how old are you?

    Even as recently as the mid 1990s most Chinese people didn't own a car... even in their biggest cities the streets were filled with bicycles in enormous numbers.

    China was dirt poor... but its current state proves it did not have to be.

    India got fucked over by the British and now the US wants a ride... Iraq has been fought over by European countries since it was created 100 years ago... but it didn't just appear from nowhere 100 years ago... these people have more history and culture than Europe with all its resources and technology and control of information has managed to steal.

    Iran, China, Iraq, India... these countries have enormous histories and amazing cultures... and the US wants them erased and replaced with Paris Hilton Worshippers...

    The work and effort in making these dirt poor third world countries into something worth a damn is what will make Russia rich... both financially and culturally... nation building is more profitable and morally and ethically satisfying than destruction and dismemberment as practised by the west...

    Obviously it is not Russias job to save the world, but creating a world order where each country has a say and does not have to give up its culture and beliefs to please other countries is a much better future for everyone than the melting pot future based on the American model that the Yanks want everyone to follow.

    India is the most populated country. Now that chinese are asking for higher living standards, companies will start producing in India and make it the in the top 5 world economy.

    A huge clients for russian raw materials and energy.

    That is right but not just China and India... but the worlds population will want a better standard of living and some comfort... Russia has been giving away resources... cheap energy to Europe and Europe has massively benefited from cheap energy and cheap natural gas resources and their response was the lecture Russia about how they don't do as they are told when they are told and are naughty owners of the land where Europes resources happen to be... Napoleon tried to get them and then Hitler tried too and HATO wants to do the same... they never learn...

    The point is that Putin has finally got the message... they hate Russians like Russians hate nazis, and they want them dead, so the cheap energy is over... Russia let them pull all their shit regarding pipelines and how much they can use of the pipelines they built and going to spot price auctions instead of long term contracts which was what Russia prefers because it creates stability and allows long term planning.... because they knew going to spot prices meant increase in prices... when the price goes too low Russia can stop selling and wait till the price goes up and then sell again... the Europeans thought they could weather the storm with US gas and only buy Russian gas when it was at its cheapest.

    Russia will likely now focus on selling gas and oil and coal and other resources to the rest of the world... interesting that the US demands the EU give up Russian gas but no question of them reducing their oil and gas and Uranium buys from Russia... not interested in inflicting pain on their own economy it seems...

    But all their BS has driven energy prices up really high so selling oil to India at a 30% discount means Russia still makes good money and India gets relatively cheap energy in a difficult time.

    China and India and Iraq will all want to trade their way out of their current economic situations and develop and grow as countries... and there is an enormous amount of money to be made helping them to do that... the west has been asset stripping them to keep them down, but letting them grow and develop makes them more valuable a trade partner for Russia who needs to replace western vendors for products and services... let the rest of the world fill that gap... maybe the US and the EU will learn their lesson and act with a bit of maturity and respect to the other countries they deal with... if not... ignore them... let them sort out their own energy supplies...


    India can't even make the metallic point of a pen. Can't even make elastic band used in underwear. India just can't innovate.

    Dmitri Mendeleev was a poor school teacher and yet he designed the periodic table. AK-47 was designed by lowly sergeant recovering in hospital. It is culture that produces men of reckoning. India lacks any such culture.

    At best they will continue to import oil and gas from Russia.

    I am old enough to remember the same accusations leveled at China and Russia... their scientists copy western stuff and their technology specialists do the same... all they can do is copy and any veneer of wealth ends at the gates of Moscow... 20km down the road they don't have light bulbs or flushing toilets.

    Funny thing is that sort of ignorance is easy to believe... when I was a kid Attenborough was on the TV all the time showing other countries and other cultures... these days you have programmes like Big Brother and Hollywood Housewives and the Kardashians...

    The west is broken and is eating itself and Russia and China and India and Brazil and South Africa have decided not to follow and more and more countries are realising that is a good choice too.

    When someone in the west says perhaps the west is headed in the wrong direction you will always get some idiot saying go back to Russia or China or imagine Russia or China was in charge of the world (like the US and the west is... by implication) suggesting that the world is a result of the 12-13% that is the west by population.

    The answer of course is that Russia and China don't want to run the world like the US and the west so clearly are desperate to do... otherwise all the dirty underhanded shit the west is/was doing in Chechnia and Ukraine and Georgia and the Baltic countries as well as in Taiwan and around the world... Russia and China would be doing too with separatist groups in Ireland and Spain and the US and Canada and Australia and New Zealand... convincing native groups to rise up and fight their oppressors... pretending war is a good solution... when it is the last solution.

    This is getting too OT so I might move some bits later on to the BRICS thread perhaps?

    flamming_python, Isos, Sprut-B, LMFS, Rasisuki Nebia and Broski like this post

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:47 am

    BTW the US Army imports the fabrics they use in their Army tents... because the country that makes that can sell for rather less than any US company can make them for... that is just economics.

    As the US turns on China the west is going to have to shift its investments somewhere else... somewhere poor with little or nothing in the way of labour laws... which is probably why India is listening to the US... but I suspect their labour laws are not weak enough and anger over past relations with US chemical companies in India might lead to the west moving to Bangledesh instead.
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:50 am

    Innovations of the new Naval Doctrine

    navy_korabel
    August 9th, 18:30
    .
    Despite the fact that today all the thoughts of the country's military and political leadership, including the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, would seem to be occupied with a special military operation in Ukraine, the Navy did not become a stepson, pushed to the sidelines of parental attention, which, frankly, the author of the blog feared. On the contrary, taking into account the new challenges that Russia will inevitably face in the process of establishing and strengthening a new (multipolar) world order, the Navy is becoming much more important than it was before February 24.g. The new Naval doctrine of Russia, and the approval at the highest level (and not by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, as before) of the new version of the Ship's Charter, and the Main Naval Parade, which took place despite everything, and the fact that the GVMP, as in less tense times, speaks about a clear understanding at the top of the growing role of the years, hosted personally by the Supreme Executive Committee.

    Navy Day 2022 (07) 31 St. Petersburg kremlin.ru.jpg
    Boat with the Supreme Command bypasses the parade formation of ships on the Neva River, St. Petersburg, 31.07.2022 (photo from kremlin.ru)


    Below are the main, in the opinion of the author and on the topic of the blog, provisions of the MD-2022 (link 1), which were not in the MD-2015, as well as expectations from the implementation of the new doctrine in practice, that is, what lies between the lines.

    1. The national interests of Russia as a great maritime power extend to THE ENTIRE WORLD OCEAN [Article 8]. In other words, the Americans and everyone else, whether you want to or not, will have to move. At the same time, the extension of Russia's national interests to the entire World Ocean implies the self-evident presence in the Navy of a sufficient number of ships of the far sea and ocean zone, which in turn should inevitably affect the shipbuilding program (by adjusting the Program of Military Shipbuilding until 2050).

    2. Modern Russia CANNOT EXIST without a STRONG navy* [Article 104] - a fundamental policy statement that places the creation of a strong Navy in the category of top state priorities.

    * Note: Let me briefly outline my understanding of a strong navy. There is an opinion that the future of the Russian Navy lies with submarine forces (primarily nuclear ones), the marine component of long-range aviation, coastal missile forces and a large number of inexpensive, easy-to-build combat surface ships of the 3rd rank, united according to the network-centric principle, the loss of each of which is much less painful than the GRKR "Moscow", which the near-term adoption of hypersonic missile weapons by foreign fleets, i.e., the use of nuclear weapons.I can't agree with that. It makes sense to talk about the Navy of tomorrow only outside the context of the Third World War, since in the event of a nuclear apocalypse, the probability of a nuclear catastrophe is very high. In fact, we are talking about a coastal defense fleet with an advance guard of multi-purpose submarines and DA aircraft. which, according to the author, is quite small, the role of general-purpose forces will be small.

    In order to understand the need for a balanced underwater-surface ocean fleet, one example is enough. Let's imagine that a request from the outside Syria (or some other geographically remote coastal state) was asked for military assistance when only one capital and not a single airfield or seaport remained under the control of government forces. There is no doubt that under such circumstances, only an operational squadron led by a full-fledged aircraft carrier of significant displacement with a full-fledged air group of up to 40 state-of-the-art fighter-bombers and the mandatory presence in the squadron of a ship landing group consisting of UDC and several BDK with a reinforced marine infantry battalion (up to 1200 people)could provide real assistance with heavy weapons-tanks, self-propelled guns, MLRS. The plan of the operation is simple: the KDG Marines, supported by the CAG air group and other DA aircraft, capture the airfield and port to further build up the expeditionary force. It is quite obvious that in such a situation, neither the submarine forces, nor the DA, nor the BNK of the 3rd rank, nor even the DBK BRAV are able to protect the interests of Russia and its allies.

    3. In terms of their importance, the areas of Russia's national interests in the World Ocean are now divided into VITAL ONES (in addition to internal sea waters, the 12-mile territorial sea, the 200-mile exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf - this is the Arctic basin adjacent to the coast of Russia, incl. The Northern Sea Route, the Sea of Okhotsk and the Russian sector of the Caspian Sea), IMPORTANT (areas of the oceans and seas adjacent to the coast of Russia, incl. Sea of Azov and Black Sea, eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea The Black Sea, Baltic and Kuril Straits, areas of passage of world sea transport communications, including those running along the Asian and African coasts) and others [articles 12-16].

    At the same time, in vital areas (such as the Northern Sea Route and the Sea of Okhotsk) Russia will use military-forceful methods in full, including the use of military force, in particular-to use military force when the possibilities of using non-forceful tools are exhausted [Article 103]. In other words, in these areas, you should not be too impudent, so as not to get your hands on it.

    4. As the Americans and their satellites like to do, pointing to us and China, OUR MAIN ENEMY AT SEA is identified for the first time, which, of course, is the United States, which has taken a strategic course to dominate the World's oceans and to have a global influence on the development of international processes, striving together with NATO and other allies to limit Russia's access access to ocean resources and vital maritime transport communications, as well as to achieve the overwhelming superiority of their naval forces over the Russian Navy (and the PLA Navy) [art. 22]. This challenge and threat to Russia's national security and sustainable development can only be countered by preventing the US Navy from gaining a significant advantage over the Russian Fleet, as stated in art. 39 Fundamentals of the Russian state policy in the field of naval activities for the period up to 2030 (reference 2). It is clear that for this prevention, it is necessary to build ships (quickly and a lot) and continuously improve their weapons (so that one of our ships is equal in strength to two others).

    In conclusion − about two particular, but very important provisions of the Naval DoctrineRussia 2022.

    5. Despite the continuing, extremely annoying statements of some officials about the dubious need to create a new aircraft carrier (s) for the Russian Navy (in particular, Yu. Borisova-link 3 − the dismissal of which from the post of Deputy Prime Minister for the defense industry, of course, will benefit the fleet), the state does not intend to refuse to work on this topic. This is clearly stated in Articles 52-3 and 66-9 of the MD-2022 on the construction of large-capacity vessels (including in the Far East), including modern aircraft carriers for the Navy (there is confidence that they are not referring to the UDC). Moreover, the inclusion of aircraft carriers in addition to Osnov-2030 (Article 45) in the Russian Naval Doctrine dramatically increases the level of their significance.

    6. No less dramatically increases the level of importance of creating a network of logistics points (PMTO), in other words-naval bases, in remote areas of the World Ocean. In the 2015 MD, they were not mentioned at all and, as a result, over the past seven years, nothing has been added to the only PMT in Tartus except for sluggish negotiations with the Sudan. MD-2022 declares the need to create PMTOS in the Asia-Pacific region [Articles 52-6], in the SPM (in addition to Tartus) [Articles 56-4] and in the Indian Ocean [Articles 59-4] (only the absence of Latin America and West Africa in the document raises questions − perhaps this was done to avoid premature disclosure of intentions in order to avoid pressure on partners from the United States and the European Union). ■

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/276033.html#cutid1

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:03 am

    Tolstoy wrote:
    Isos wrote:India is the most populated country. Now that chinese are asking for higher living standards, companies will start producing in India and make it the in the top 5 world economy.

    A huge clients for russian raw materials and energy.
    India can't even make the metallic point of a pen.  Can't even make elastic band used in underwear.  India just can't innovate.

    Dmitri Mendeleev was a poor school teacher and yet he designed the periodic table. AK-47 was designed by lowly sergeant recovering in hospital. It is culture that produces men of reckoning. India lacks any such culture.

    At best they will continue to import oil and gas from Russia.

    I think you are not aware how west and China see India. I had a job interview at Bosch. Half of the engineering team was in India.

    Just like China, India is sending a huge number of student in the best universities meanwhile west is sebding its production lines there with all the knowledge needed.

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