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65 posters

    Su-27: News

    Isos
    Isos


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    Su-27: News - Page 16 Empty Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Isos 28/12/22, 12:21 am

    That is the point though the MiG project is a domestic fighter so it will be kept secret while everyone talks about the Checkmate... go to the UAC website and look it up... they have a page for the Checkmate... but even the page on the Russian language version of the website Checkmate is written in English.... who do you think the programme is directed at?

    You are wrong. Russia MiC doesn't make money with russian orders because Putin pays the minimum for everything. They need export orders to be sustainable.

    Su-57 was proposed for export as soon as it ended rests.

    Mig-35 was proposed for export in 2006 even if it was ready only in 2020.

    Now you say mig-35 will be bought yet it was created for india. And you say checkmate won't be bought because it was made for export. You contradict yourself. Su-75 has a lot of chances to be bought for the russian air force.

    Sukhoi advertized it for export but that's only to get external funds since they develop it on their own. Pantsir was founded by UAE and russians bought it after seeing how good it was. Su-75 will follow the same path and become the main russian fighter thanks to its price and good technology.

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    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Su-27: News - Page 16 Empty Re: Su-27: News

    Post  GarryB 28/12/22, 12:26 am

    Hypersonic missiles are needed because the oft stated lie that supersonic cruise missiles can maneuver has been exposed. No missile powered by an air breathing engine can maneuver at Mach 3, Mach 4.

    If a mach three air breathing missile... say the Kh-31 or an KUB (SA-6) can't manouver then how do they hit their targets?

    And if an air breathing missile moving at mach 3 or 4 can't manouver then how does an air breathing aircraft like an SR-71 or MiG-25 manouver as they approach mach 3 or so?

    And finally if air breathing missiles can't manouver at mach 3 or mach 4 then how on earth does a Zircon scramjet powered missile manouver at mach 9... 2-3 times faster than mach 3 or 4...

    Hole likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


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    Su-27: News - Page 16 Empty Re: Su-27: News

    Post  GarryB 28/12/22, 12:42 am

    You are wrong. Russia MiC doesn't make money with russian orders because Putin pays the minimum for everything. They need export orders to be sustainable.

    So you think Sukhoi threw the race so they could export the Checkmate and make more money exporting their aircraft....

    MiG want to design planes for the defence of their country... the profit margins are not their problem, they just design planes and troubleshoot any problems that come up during the serialisation of their manufacture and their time in service.

    Su-57 was proposed for export as soon as it ended rests.

    Very true, but the Su-75 isn't even flying yet.

    The joint venture with India was regarding a separate joint design... a Su-57MKI rather than what the Russian military was getting.

    Mig-35 was proposed for export in 2006 even if it was ready only in 2020.

    The original MiG-29M flew in 1988 but it was a different MiG-29M that was single seat only, as was the MiG-35 they wanted to call it that was based on that aircraft... it had a different chassis structure to the older types... the wielded design meant the new aircraft could use any internal cavity for fuel, while the older model had a structure with a skin so if you wanted to store fuel in an area you had to put a fuel tank in there which added weight and reduced space.

    Now you say mig-35 will be bought yet it was created for india.

    The Russian AF bought a small number of aircraft that have evolved since the design was offered to India, but what do you care... it is just the same aircraft that flew in the 1970s... just like the Su-35 is the same as the Su-27 and the F-15 is the same too.

    And you say checkmate won't be bought because it was made for export. You contradict yourself. Su-75 has a lot of chances to be bought for the russian air force.

    Neither plane has been flown, but if the Russian AF did want the Checkmate it would not be needing export customers this early in its development period.

    They might decide that the Checkmate is the best solution or not... how can any one say for sure when AFAIK neither aircraft is flying.

    The Checkmate is not a bad plane but how many engineers and designers does Sukhoi have around the place to deal with the serial production and problem solving hat would need to take place when they are already working on upgrading the Su-35s, upgrading the Su-30s to Su-35 level, the Su-57s of course, the S-70 wingman drones, and of course the Su-34 upgrades and improvements including some replacement for the Su-24MR that is probably rather urgent too.

    Sukhoi advertized it for export but that's only to get external funds since they develop it on their own. Pantsir was founded by UAE and russians bought it after seeing how good it was.

    Not the UAE wanted their own version of the Pantsir which already existed but they demanded better radar and systems for the vehicle which they paid for... the Russian military were happy with 12km range missiles and cheaper radars... the improved missiles and radar and EO led to a better system which the Russians bought too.

    Su-75 will follow the same path and become the main russian fighter thanks to its price and good technology.

    For all we know they might come to the conclusion that stealth is not critical for light aircraft roles and it just adds costs and complications so they might decide a 4th gen light fighter with a heavy 5th gen fighter makes more sense in terms of payload capacity and cost effectiveness.

    Certainly having all weapons internal is a serious limitation of stealthy aircraft but if you carry all your weapons externally then stealth is a bit of a waste of money.

    They have plenty of options and it seems that Checkmate even without alternatives is a better option than any western equivalent in service or on the drawing board if the costs and prices are to be believed...

    We shall see.
    Sujoy
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    Su-27: News - Page 16 Empty Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Sujoy 28/12/22, 01:44 am

    RTN wrote:Hypersonic missiles are needed because the oft stated lie that supersonic cruise missiles can maneuver has been exposed
    Exposed by whom?
    Of course supersonic cruise missiles can maneuvre. To maneuver, cruise missiles use a variety of methods, including

    Aerodynamic control surfaces

    Thrust vectoring

    Roll Control

    Altitude control

    Hole
    Hole


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    Su-27: News - Page 16 Empty Re: Su-27: News

    Post  Hole 17/02/23, 01:23 am

    Su-27: News - Page 16 Fpe8rl10
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    Su-27: News - Page 16 Empty Re: Su-27: News

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