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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sat Oct 07, 2023 3:17 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    It's standard. an S-300V Battery would have

    I suspect he means ATACMS can be shot down with BUK and TOR and Pantsir and S-350 and S-400 already in theatre...

    Buk yes. For tor and pantsir it is not sure, you need to see data for the target's max speed engagement.



    Fighter aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces and air defense means during the week shot down Su-27, Su-25 and MiG-29 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force in the areas of the settlements of Soldatskoye, Dnipropetrovsk region, Sergeyevka and Kleshcheyevka of the Donetsk People's Republic, as well as an attack aircraft Su-25 was destroyed at the Dolgintsevo airfield in the Dnipropetrovsk region.

    It's a shame we don't have more data on air to air engagements.

    Su-57 seems also to be widely tested there probably with new missiles.
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    Post  RTN Sat Oct 07, 2023 5:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:I suspect he means ATACMS can be shot down with BUK and TOR and Pantsir and S-350 and S-400 already in theatre...
    Enemy SAM systems and air superiority aircraft will be targeted using the upcoming USAF drone LongShot.

    LongShot is designed to be launched from another aircraft that has a human pilot. LongShot can carry and use different kinds of weapons to attack enemy aircrafts. LongShot can fit inside the space where the weapons are stored in the aircraft that launches it. This means that the aircraft that launches LongShot can stay far away from the enemy and avoid being shot down. LongShot can fly faster and more accurately than the weapons that are normally used by the aircraft that launches it. LongShot wants to show that using drones like this can make air combat more effective and safer. LongShot also wants to show that using new and better weapons can make a big difference, instead of just making small changes to the old weapons. In the future, LongShot will make and test a real drone that can fly and use weapons in a realistic situation.
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    Post  Mir Sat Oct 07, 2023 5:57 pm

    Sounds like a long shot that will probably fail Rolling Eyes

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    Post  thegopnik Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:46 pm

    RTN wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I suspect he means ATACMS can be shot down with BUK and TOR and Pantsir and S-350 and S-400 already in theatre...
    Enemy SAM systems and air superiority aircraft will be targeted using the upcoming USAF drone LongShot.

    LongShot is designed to be launched from another aircraft that has a human pilot. LongShot can carry and use different kinds of weapons to attack enemy aircrafts. LongShot can fit inside the space where the weapons are stored in the aircraft that launches it. This means that the aircraft that launches LongShot can stay far away from the enemy and avoid being shot down. LongShot can fly faster and more accurately than the weapons that are normally used by the aircraft that launches it. LongShot wants to show that using drones like this can make air combat more effective and safer. LongShot also wants to show that using new and better weapons can make a big difference, instead of just making small changes to the old weapons. In the future, LongShot will make and test a real drone that can fly and use weapons in a realistic situation.
    Amazing, they are coming up with these drone concepts know while russia is close to pushing there projects to production dates. Imagine a country with 1.8% of the world's population are the ones that are the leaders of this world in science, technology and engineering. I hope those LGBT and diversity hires can compete with russia in the future

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:41 pm

    Oh, someone has taken out a Woody Woodpecker out of a cage. How splendid Laughing

    Edit : this is something on th border of off topic, but worth to watch.



    The most interesting part.
    A whole material is made in a small town of 39k people.
    A question of war and victims arises.
    What is the answer?

    They have 4 (FOUR) cases of KIA in the city.

    Let us do the math.

    4 in 39k population makes 0.0001
    If you multiply it by the 145 mln of the Russian population, the end number is ... 14500.

    Statistics is a nasty thing that can prove everything if you feed it with predesigned data.

    Yet those data and variables are just as plain as they can be ...

    I do not believe this war taking only <15k of Russians, because we have clear data proving different.

    Yet it proves how irrelevant - in other than personal sorrow and loss - the thing is.

    When Ukro cities are full of graves - Russia hardly notices the case.

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    Post  ucmvulcan Sun Oct 08, 2023 3:54 am

    ALAMO wrote:Oh, someone has taken out a Woody Woodpecker out of a cage. How splendid Laughing

    Edit : this is something on th border of off topic, but worth to watch.



    The most interesting part.
    A whole material is made in a small town of 39k people.
    A question of war and victims arises.
    What is the answer?

    They have 4 (FOUR) cases of KIA in the city.

    Let us do the math.

    4 in 39k population makes 0.0001
    If you multiply it by the 145 mln of the Russian population, the end number is ... 14500.

    Statistics is a nasty thing that can prove everything if you feed it with predesigned data.

    Yet those data and variables are just as plain as they can be ...

    I do not believe this war taking only <15k of Russians, because we have clear data proving different.

    Yet it proves how irrelevant - in other than personal sorrow and loss - the thing is.

    When Ukro cities are full of graves - Russia hardly notices the case.

    Yeah, not 15,000 but in a moment of honesty a couple months ago the BBC said it could only confirm 25000 dead. There has been some hard fighting so 30 to 35 thousand dead, probably 60 to 90 thousand wounded. Ukraine? 400 to 600 thousand dead, 1 to 2 million wounded.

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    Post  mnztr Sun Oct 08, 2023 5:40 am

    RTN wrote:
    GarryB wrote:I suspect he means ATACMS can be shot down with BUK and TOR and Pantsir and S-350 and S-400 already in theatre...
    Enemy SAM systems and air superiority aircraft will be targeted using the upcoming USAF drone LongShot.

    LongShot is designed to be launched from another aircraft that has a human pilot. LongShot can carry and use different kinds of weapons to attack enemy aircrafts. LongShot can fit inside the space where the weapons are stored in the aircraft that launches it. This means that the aircraft that launches LongShot can stay far away from the enemy and avoid being shot down. LongShot can fly faster and more accurately than the weapons that are normally used by the aircraft that launches it. LongShot wants to show that using drones like this can make air combat more effective and safer. LongShot also wants to show that using new and better weapons can make a big difference, instead of just making small changes to the old weapons. In the future, LongShot will make and test a real drone that can fly and use weapons in a realistic situation.

    Its just a cruise missile that can launch submunitions. I would imagine everyone is working on these.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:47 am

    https://t.me/fighter_bomber/14289?single

    Fighterbomber says, well the s300 of Ukropians was identified in Odessa

    Why has noone worked on it yet?

    Well it's clear amateur enthusiasts find the s300

    But no Geran or missiles go there, jokingly respondents come up with excuses as to why this target stands, but some bridges in random Cherkassy are blown up

    So why do you think the s300 is left in peace?
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    Post  ucmvulcan Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:34 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:https://t.me/fighter_bomber/14289?single

    Fighterbomber says, well the s300 of Ukropians was identified in Odessa

    Why has noone worked on it yet?

    Well it's clear amateur enthusiasts find the s300

    But no Geran or missiles go there, jokingly respondents come up with excuses as to why this target stands,  but some bridges in random Cherkassy are blown up

    So why do you think the s300 is left in peace?

    Probably because they have other more pressing targets. Odessa is probably an ultimate objective, but not yet. The war isn't won or lost by your buddies having an S-300 in Odessa. Its won the same way wars have always been won; making the enemy fight the war you want them to (Russia has dug in and is fighting a Kursk/Borodino/Poltava on a massive scale. For you and others in the west, you may be more familiar with Verdun, so they are doing this effectively); killing a lot more of their men and destroying a lot more of their equipment than they have of yours (mission accomplished. 30 to 35 thousand Russian dead and 60 to 90 thousand wounded is awful, but half million dead Ukrainian and 1 to 2 million wounded Ukrainians? Damn, that's a demographic disaster. Ukraine keeps this up they won't have anyone left to make new Ukrainians); taking out their war making capabilities (in 2014 Ukraine was the 3rd largest arms exporter on the planet, now they are a zombie state. No war industry, severely degraded infrastructure, and they have to import all their weapons and ship their weapons out of country to be repaired); and lastly you demolish their military and paramilitary infrastructure (that means rails, electricity, bridges, ports, munitions dumps, command bunkers. The only thing they have failed to do that is inexplicable to me is to make Kiev a horror show for Zelensky the Puppet's handlers to visit. I get it, Cocainsky is doing more harm to Ukraine than anyone else, but Joe Biden and co should be more afraid of going to Kiev than they are of say getting found out for being frequent fliers to Epstein's island). All told, smashing an S-300 would be nice, but by almost all other indicators, Russia has grabbed Ukraine by the throat and is kicking them in the balls.

    Buh buh buh, they sank the Moscow, but but but, they forced the fleet out of Sevastopol, but but but they hit the Kerch bridge twice, but but but a drone in Moscow, but but but there's an S-300 in Odessa. . . . But but but, so what, what exactly is gained by any of this? Not a whole lot. Empty propaganda victories so decisive that only Dr Goebbels knows for sure.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:52 am

    Buk yes. For tor and pantsir it is not sure, you need to see data for the target's max speed engagement.

    TOR is designed to defend armour on the front line from enemy threats and in the old models can engage targets moving at about mach 3, but I am sure they have improved performance since the 1980s. It is also designed to hit targets with very low RCS.

    Pantsir is also designed to hit all sorts of targets of various speeds too... including ballistic threats.

    ATACMs is not a new system... do you think they are not ready?

    LongShot is designed to be launched from another aircraft that has a human pilot. LongShot can carry and use different kinds of weapons to attack enemy aircrafts. LongShot can fit inside the space where the weapons are stored in the aircraft that launches it. This means that the aircraft that launches LongShot can stay far away from the enemy and avoid being shot down. LongShot can fly faster and more accurately than the weapons that are normally used by the aircraft that launches it. LongShot wants to show that using drones like this can make air combat more effective and safer. LongShot also wants to show that using new and better weapons can make a big difference, instead of just making small changes to the old weapons. In the future, LongShot will make and test a real drone that can fly and use weapons in a realistic situation.

    That sounds like the sales and marketing talk of a company selling something but it is tragically ironic that the name for their product... LongShot... essentially means in their own language and in their own culture something that is most likely to fail... What a Face

    But lets break it down... Kiev has problems keeping its aircraft airborne because they keep getting shot down and your new super weapon requires them to fly their planes to use a drone to shoot down enemy planes and air defence systems... so Longshot, you are claiming is faster than an AAM and more accurate.

    Longshot is an air to air missile that can also be fired at ground targets but to charge more they are calling it a drone, or is it to be trendy and modern and cool that it is being called a drone. Being fired from a distance to keep the launch aircraft safe... isn't that a good description of an AMRAAM or R-77... why do they call it a drone?

    Does the pilot or crewman have to control the weapon.... command controlled missiles are not new either and nor were they called drones...

    Fighterbomber says, well the s300 of Ukropians was identified in Odessa

    Was it real or a decoy?

    So why do you think the s300 is left in peace?

    Is it preventing Russian missiles hitting targets in or near Odessa?

    The damage reports each day suggest not.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:03 am

    ATACSM is low range ( means slow moving) and nonmaneuvering target.
    S-300V was constructed to deal with much more serious threats, ie. Pershing missiles. MRBMs, in general. It can take out targets with a range of 1100 km for the early, non-modernized systems, up to 2500 km for Antey-2500, and even more for V4 version with the newest missiles. Terminal speeds of the target are close to ICBMs, honestly.
    That's why it is a serious overkill for ATACSM. It can be easily dealt with by Buk, Viking, regular S-300 or S-400.
    I doubt Tor and Pancyr, for two main reasons.
    Both carry relatively small warheads, while any type of ballistic target is hard to kill. Last but not least, both are small ranges, making the engagement envelope very narrow.
    Even if both can hit - in theory - a 300 km ranged ballistic missile, it can be achieved only in a very small radius, and the effect of hitting it can be disappointing.

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    Post  RTN Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:39 pm

    GarryB wrote:Kiev has problems keeping its aircraft airborne because they keep getting shot down and your new super weapon requires them to fly their planes to use a drone to shoot down enemy planes and air defence systems... so Longshot, you are claiming is faster than an AAM and more accurate.

    Longshot is an air to air missile that can also be fired at ground targets but to charge more they are calling it a drone, or is it to be trendy and modern and cool that it is being called a drone. Being fired from a distance to keep the launch aircraft safe... isn't that a good description of an AMRAAM or R-77... why do they call it a drone?
    It can be launched by the fighter jet from outside enemy airspace. This system will capitalize on a slower speed, fuel efficient air vehicle for ingress, while retaining highly energetic air-to-air missiles for end-game target engagements. Basically it will perform the same role as that of a F-22 Raptor.

    GarryB wrote:Does the pilot or crewman have to control the weapon.... command controlled missiles are not new either and nor were they called drones...
    AI algorithms take care of controlling the missile, pilot has no role to play.
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    Post  Isos Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:30 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:https://t.me/fighter_bomber/14289?single

    Fighterbomber says, well the s300 of Ukropians was identified in Odessa

    Why has noone worked on it yet?

    Well it's clear amateur enthusiasts find the s300

    But no Geran or missiles go there, jokingly respondents come up with excuses as to why this target stands,  but some bridges in random Cherkassy are blown up

    So why do you think the s300 is left in peace?

    They are not deployed 24/7. Such systems need lot of maintenance and spend lot of time in workshops or hangars because they are not in condition to be used.


    Once deployed and turned on, russians should find them very quickly since they know what frequencies they work on.

    Strategically speaking I suspect russians just don't destroy enemy stuff as soon as it is detected because then it lets them think they have a chance to win since their hardware still works and they keep sending reinforcement. Russians wants the frobt to be a meatgrinder and let ukrinians keep attacking all day long. If they are to destructive on their rears, ukros will go on defensive which would complicate russians war since they would need to attack defended positions.

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    Post  Arrow Sun Oct 08, 2023 1:38 pm

    Apparently, rail traffic from North Korea is increasing day by day.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49 - Page 26 8efd811797cca

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    Post  kvs Sun Oct 08, 2023 2:01 pm

    Must be because Russia is running out of shells. lol1

    That random satellite image proves diddley squat.

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    Post  Arrow Sun Oct 08, 2023 2:08 pm

    on Sun Oct 08, 2023 12:01 pm Must be because Russia is running out of shells wrote:

    Russia produces more shell than the West. Currently over 2 million per year. However, those from Korea are even cheaper and quickly available.

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    Post  franco Sun Oct 08, 2023 2:57 pm

    Arrow wrote:

    Russia produces more shell than the West. Currently over 2 million per year. However, those from Korea are even cheaper and quickly available.

    Could be useful for a winter offensive attack

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    Post  Hole Sun Oct 08, 2023 4:34 pm

    rail traffic from North Korea is increasing day by day.
    How is that pic proving that rail traffic is coming from NK?
    Could be trains coming from Russia, bringing some nice gifts to the NK people. Very Happy

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 08, 2023 4:54 pm

    It is a humanitarian aid and grain. Pretty sure.

    Edit : and while our whining 5th columnist cried a river about some mysterious sole S300 PU in Odessa, Russkie fried a whole battery at once near Nikolayev.

    https://lostarmour.info/news/news_23_10_08_ria_s300

    https://t.me/c/1638135777/21473

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    Post  Arrow Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:31 pm

    Maybe an ammunition explosion?

    https://t.me/rosich_ru/49772

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:40 pm

    They didn't "evacuate" naval assets from Sevastopol, or anything, by the way. So that defeatist rant I read the other day just looks silly.

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    Post  lancelot Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:44 pm

    As if naval ships need to be in Sevastopol to launch Kalibr missiles.
    Spreading the ships across available bases out of range of enemy missiles is just common sense. The Kalibr has like 5x the range of their missiles.

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:50 pm

    Khohols are so deeply desperate for any kind of peremoga that will use every chance to sell this bridge.
    Honestly, the news about the new location of the fleet in Abkhazia is a much more important event.

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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:18 pm

    kvs wrote:Must be because Russia is running out of shells. lol1

    That random satellite image proves diddley squat.

    Hey, if Kim Wylde is offering free shells as a thank you for a vacation trip just take it, man...

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:32 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Khohols are so deeply desperate for any kind of peremoga that will use every chance to sell this bridge.
    Honestly, the news about the new location of the fleet in Abkhazia is a much more important event.

    Well, it is important in the sense that is a "f**k it" situation. Russia kept minimal assets in Abkhazia and S. Ossetia, just Soviet leftovers, and only did so to deter Georgia from trying anything (in the latter case, it was UN-approved even, ie the peacekeepers that Saakashvili attacked in 2008).

    But now it's like it doesn't matter. Every hand that Russia has extended has been bit, so they might as well expand their military presence there. Abkhazia has been de facto independent since the early 1990s (Tbilisi has never controlled the region) and Russia did recognize its independence after 2008, together with S. Ossetia, but Russia still refrained from getting too involved. Until now.

    The little naval base they are planning, at the old coal shipping port of Jukmuri I guess, isn't all that strategically significant. But the move does open up for other Russian civilian investment in Abkhazia, which is sorely needed. The New Athos monastery, many towns like Sukhumi and other beautiful places have been kind of rotting due to lack of investment, due to the "limbo" Abkhazia's been in for some 30 years.

    South Ossetians definitely want Russia to expand its presence there too, and probably join Russia together with their bros, the Russian republic North Ossetia, which has a say in the Duma and is doing quite well. South Ossetia never had a say in Tbilisi (and never wanted anything to do with Tbilisi anyway). Might happen soonish, because it's a f**k it situation, all concessions and goodwill Moscow's been engaged for ages in has returned nil.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Sun Oct 08, 2023 7:39 pm; edited 5 times in total

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