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74 posters
Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49
ALAMO- Posts : 7075
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Arrow- Posts : 2978
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Hopefully Russia can sustain that level for a few years and spend some of the extra money on the fleet. Cool wrote:
They certainly will not increase expenditure on the fleet. They will expand their land forces. They are building a huge contract army and that in itself will require a lot of resources. The navy will not be expanded significantly.
lancelot- Posts : 2872
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You can build several frigates and corvettes with the budget used to refurbish the Admiral Nakhimov.
So this is one area where they could cut, the upgrade of the Peter the Great.
They could also retire Oscar subs and replace them with Yasen-M. The Oscar has like twice the engines. It requires twice the engine maintenance and refueling expenditure of the Yasen-M. The Oscar also requires over 100 crew vs 64 for the Yasen-M. For what is less capability. Oscar carries 24 Granit missiles vs 32 Oniks missiles in Yasen-M.
So this is one area where they could cut, the upgrade of the Peter the Great.
They could also retire Oscar subs and replace them with Yasen-M. The Oscar has like twice the engines. It requires twice the engine maintenance and refueling expenditure of the Yasen-M. The Oscar also requires over 100 crew vs 64 for the Yasen-M. For what is less capability. Oscar carries 24 Granit missiles vs 32 Oniks missiles in Yasen-M.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7075
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Yup, but it can be 72 Oniks on them if pimped up. That makes a difference 
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ALAMO- Posts : 7075
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sepheronx wrote:A large part of that will trickle into the civilian sector since now these defense companies are dual purpose. Kalashnikov as am example has extended its production of heavy auto CNC equipment as demand is increasing considerably. And they still can't meet the Russian demand. Other companies getting involved like Rosatom in the industrial 3D printer manufacturing.
These are important for the MiC as well.
There is one thing missing in the whole equation.
Workforce.
Russia had a non existent unemployment for years and was forced to import millions of jobs.
Only legal migration was close to 5mln people, being no more than half of the whole story.
The situation can be slightly improved with newly adopted citizens, but it won't be enough, if you ask me.
So what we can expect in the short term, is an extreme modernization of the Russian industry, fueled by having money and lacking people.
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SolidarityWithRussia- Posts : 206
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- Post n°381
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49
SolidarityWithRussia Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:29 am
Ten thousand Ukrainians have surrendered according to Redacted. Companies using the "Volga frequency" can arrange a meeting with Russians in order to surrender.
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GarryB- Posts : 39671
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Tarp and Straw and Barn and Tree burn very well ! You just need a match . Small incendiary . Can be delivered by drones easily . Yes you do have enough Ammo . If friendlies want to avoid the fire , then have no Tarp or Barn or Tree covering equipment . Animal feed stored outdoors , can be stored in small lumps , across a field . Otherwise any lump , covered ground , will burn . Farmers will be told to sell animals , no need for Barn or storage of feed . QED .
A shift to a scorched earth policy would only make sense if it is applied to the side of the target country that is most rabbidly anti Russian... the north and the west of the country should be raised to the ground...
It is not winter yet and most trees still have leaves.
The orcs could simply make vehicle sized boxes and put tarps over them and make them all over the place and let the Russians waste their ammo and reveal their firing positions destroying useless empty decoys.
50-70 per day is hard to beleive. It's not a small drone. That would be 2 per hour...
How many factories are making the parts and how many factories are assembling them?
Right now their military industry is busy producing everything they use so they can't just pop up a production like that.
Lots of their car assembly lines are sitting idle because the western company that used to own them has stopped production making cars of all types... how hard would it be to set up a few lines making drones?
If they had 2000 geran per month, they would have atomized every target by now and wouldn't be shy in their use.
In a country with still more than 20 million people they could hit 10,000 targets per month and still just be scratching the surface of the problem.
Relying on China? They will prioritize their needs 1st. You will just make the public question why you are not striking Kiev every day with 50+ drones.
The Russians have an enormous range of weapons from missiles and bombs to artillery shells and drones and other weapons that are continuously hitting their enemy and causing death and destruction...
So western articles slagging Russia off again this time saying they are desperate as using old rockets.
There is nothing desperate about it. These are artillery rockets used to hit beach fortifications and positions on the ground and were likely made in enormous numbers for quite a few decades. Just sitting there doing nothing.
They have upgraded the rockets and new models have improved performance but I would guess they had enormous numbers of the older rockets in large scale storage waiting to be used and fired from the back of an MTLB is an ideal way of using these old rockets.
Having a few of these vehicles on your side of defensive lines would be very good for dealing with small infantry attacks that don't need to reach Kiev, these are for use against group targets where you launch at a spread out infantry target where one single rocket would not be effective no matter how accurate it was.
There has also been images of RBU 6000 system being mounted on MTLB this was originally for anti submarine missions, which carry heavier rockets and warheads 19-23kg warheads.
The RBU series rockets are not artillery rockets, they are specialised naval weapons for naval targets in water, so there are mine warheads that are launched in the path of an incoming torpedo, there are decoy rockets that mimic a naval target to distract homing torpedoes, and there are depth charge rockets used for hunting submarines and divers... none of which are really suited to be used against conventional infantry targets on land.
The RBU series rockets are weapons you would use in a port to deal with sea drones or enemy divers or threats from the water.... there is a version of the Grad that looks like a Grad launcher called DP-62 and a range of about 5km or so that is optimised for firing into water at naval targets and divers too... in other words despite having 20kg HE warheads they are depth charges and would not be that great for land targets.
What I say is why not? Why wouldn't you use up old ammo on Ukrainians. These rockets would be lethal against infantry and light armour vehicles, death and casualties is the name of the game here.
They should have large numbers of Ogon rockets and they would be ideal for use against enemy troops, either in the open or in defensive positions.
They use HE frag rockets and incendiary rockets and would be just fine for killing nazis.
Russia needs to create a similar 120 mm mortar system based on perhaps the Tigr chassis.
Russia has 120mm and 82mm mortars on most of their vehicle types including but not limited to light trucks, BTRs, BMPs, MTLBs, Tigrs, and BMDs.
They certainly will not increase expenditure on the fleet. They will expand their land forces. They are building a huge contract army and that in itself will require a lot of resources. The navy will not be expanded significantly.
You are ignoring some very key changes in Russia and the west. The Russians used to sell their own oil and gas to other countries via western ships insured by western insurance companies, most of Russias trade went through Europe.
No longer.
Russia needs to gain access to the rest of the world in a way that does not go through now hostile western countries and that means they need a civil naval fleet and a military naval fleet to ensure the safety of that civilian fleet of ships.
They are going to have to spend money on their navy, but no way will they need 11 carrier groups, that is just America being stupid.
So this is one area where they could cut, the upgrade of the Peter the Great.
An upgraded modern cruiser is vastly more useful than corvettes and frigates.
They could also retire Oscar subs and replace them with Yasen-M. The Oscar has like twice the engines. It requires twice the engine maintenance and refueling expenditure of the Yasen-M. The Oscar also requires over 100 crew vs 64 for the Yasen-M.
A real manpower saving getting rid of subs that work for the potential future subs you will get at some future time... not very sensible at all.
For what is less capability. Oscar carries 24 Granit missiles vs 32 Oniks missiles in Yasen-M.
Upgraded Oscar carries 72 Onyx class missiles.
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nomadski- Posts : 2903
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On balance , even if the Orcs use same tactics , the net result will be in Russia's favour . Since a hot
zone , on both sides of the frontlines , means a lack of vegetation and buildings and civilian populations . This allows Russia to destroy all SAM and Missile sites and do a bit of heavy carpet bombing to destroy the bunker system . 
Edit : Just remember to shatter all the Windows first with normal bombing and shelling , so as to allow incendiary rounds ( horizontal vector ) to penetrate buildings to cause firestorm . Just like the British did in WW2 against Germany .
Last edited by nomadski on Fri Sep 29, 2023 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total
Hole- Posts : 10982
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The launchers and their ammo are not that old. The system was put on ships build in the 80´s and beginning of the 90´s.Why wouldn't you use up old ammo
Without Jelzin some of the projects could have been in production until the 2000´s.
Saw a video yesterday, at some part of the frontline russian forces used robotized T-62 tanks to run through mine fields.this system was designed for mine clearence
I hope the russian MIC increased the production of the Prokhod mine clearing robot.
After that. Shoigu called it "Action plan 2025". That´s why I stated "for a few years".They will expand their land forces.
Wait a few years. Until then Russia should rebuild some of the villages of the Volga-Germans.Workforce.
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Hole- Posts : 10982
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By the way... Did someone saw the video of that BMD-4M clearing a treeline with his 30mm gun? 
After that he supported infantry by firing a few 100mm shells into some trench.
After that he supported infantry by firing a few 100mm shells into some trench.
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JohninMK- Posts : 15132
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Looks like something id cooking 
Zlatti71
@djuric_zlatko
The Russian Aerospace Forces are destroying bridges across the Oskol River in the Kupyansky direction
In recent days, as many as four episodes of high-precision Kh-38 air-to-surface missiles hitting road bridges through which the Ukrainian Armed Forces supply their group on the left bank of the Oskol River have been published online.
Kupyansk Our collected all the episodes in one post and marked the locations of the attacks on the map.
Zlatti71
@djuric_zlatko
The Russian Aerospace Forces are destroying bridges across the Oskol River in the Kupyansky direction
In recent days, as many as four episodes of high-precision Kh-38 air-to-surface missiles hitting road bridges through which the Ukrainian Armed Forces supply their group on the left bank of the Oskol River have been published online.
Kupyansk Our collected all the episodes in one post and marked the locations of the attacks on the map.
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JohninMK- Posts : 15132
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Hole wrote:By the way... Did someone saw the video of that BMD-4M clearing a treeline with his 30mm gun?
After that he supported infantry by firing a few 100mm shells into some trench.
Indeed.
But where were the early wonder weapons? You remember, the Javelin etc ATGM
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crod- Posts : 679
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JohninMK wrote:Looks like something id cooking
Zlatti71
@djuric_zlatko
The Russian Aerospace Forces are destroying bridges across the Oskol River in the Kupyansky direction
In recent days, as many as four episodes of high-precision Kh-38 air-to-surface missiles hitting road bridges through which the Ukrainian Armed Forces supply their group on the left bank of the Oskol River have been published online.
Kupyansk Our collected all the episodes in one post and marked the locations of the attacks on the map.
....or perhaps the Russians just happened upon some bridges and thought: 'ah jaysus Miles, imagine if we knocked out some of these bridges, what it might do'
Right now it looks like something is brewing stronger than my tea. Looking grim for some that's for damn sure.
Also what did I read about a document for attacking Iran and Syria??? I mean it's 35 odd years since i dabbled but yeah, feeling ripped off because mine was never that strong, NEVER.....jesus wept
Airbornewolf- Posts : 1510
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- Post n°389
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49
Airbornewolf Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:07 pm
RF airforce obliterates ukrainian munition depot in the Kiselevka area of the Kherson region
Ukrainian troops leave their own casualties after drone strike
RF forces engage Ukrainian counteroffensive infantry with AGS in Zaporozhye region
RF recon discover ukr troops near highway to kupyansk, call in suicide drones to flush them out
Ukrainian troops leave their own casualties after drone strike
RF forces engage Ukrainian counteroffensive infantry with AGS in Zaporozhye region
RF recon discover ukr troops near highway to kupyansk, call in suicide drones to flush them out
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nomadski- Posts : 2903
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Couple of observations re-video by Airbornewolf : ( 1 ) On more than one occasion , Ukrainians leaving wounded behind . This means their spirit is broken . ( 2 ) Russia is hunting infantry with Drones , means Russia not short of any weapons . ( 3 ) Destruction of Arms depot near frontlines , has advantage of the use of shorter range weapons . Destruction near Polish border , needs longer range weapons , timing not important . As long as the depot is destroyed , before Arms distributed to frontline . Timing is important ! ( 4 ) Not long ago , Bridges would be left open for retreating troops . Now they are closed for retreating troops .
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GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6101
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- Post n°391
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49
GunshipDemocracy Fri Sep 29, 2023 2:13 pm
The LPR reported an attempt by the Ukrainian Armed Forces to attack the positions of a Russian detachment under the guise of surrender
In total, the Ukrainian Armed Forces sent about 35 people to the assault, at least eight of them were destroyed, said the battalion commander with the call sign Zenit
LUGANSK, September 28. /TASS/. The Ukrainian military, under the guise of surrender, attacked the positions of the Cossack special forces detachment Bars-16 "Kuban" in the Spornoye area in the LPR; the assault attempt was repulsed - the enemy lost at least eight soldiers, one wounded was taken prisoner. The battalion commander with the call sign Zenit told reporters about this.
“Approaching our positions, the enemy tried to deceive us: they came to our frequencies and said that they were going to surrender. 13 people. I thought, strange, there was no battle as such. They walked with a white flag, by the way. The first one went and was blown up by a mine. "I gave the command to the company not to let them come closer than 50 meters and at a distance of 50 meters to command them to crawl to our positions one by one. This option did not suit them, they opened fire to kill, began throwing grenades. We opened fire from small arms," Zenit said .
At the same time, another group of Ukrainian Armed Forces tried to storm the detachment’s position from the other flank. They managed to occupy an abandoned trench, but they were spotted by a Cossack reconnaissance drone, from which mortars were aimed. One mine hit precisely a concentration of enemy infantry, killing two militants. Mortar crews continued to fire at the second group, forcing it to retreat.
In total, the Ukrainian Armed Forces sent about 35 people to the assault, at least eight of them were destroyed, Zenit noted. The battalion commander clarified that there could be more dead and injured, since mortar attacks were also carried out on those retreating.
At night, the Ukrainian military sent an evacuation group - two cars and one armored car - to take the retreating soldiers to safety. The group was discovered by reconnaissance and was also struck by mortars.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/18860057
ALAMO wrote:
The situation can be slightly improved with newly adopted citizens, but it won't be enough, if you ask me.
So what we can expect in the short term, is an extreme modernization of the Russian industry, fueled by having money and lacking people.
industrial robotics finally! no "effective managers" claiming its better to buy abroad then to develop yourself
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Hole- Posts : 10982
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But it would be stupid to think that Russia produces only 110 a week because they use only 100.50-70 per day is hard to beleive.
They are building up stocks for the coming offensive. And in case NATO does something really stupid.
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kvs- Posts : 15480
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70 drones per day is a joke for an economy with the size and diversification of Russia. People's intuition is Mickey Mouse.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7075
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There is some footage of Terminator receiving 6 hits, yet continuing fighting.
I tried to find it, but with no luck - anyone saw it ?
The news appeared after some Ukro claimed that they had taken out one of those.
Yet the provided material shows it being hit in the back with a drone, yet it hasn't even stopped to shoot both canons for a second.
Like hasn't even noticed the hit
I tried to find it, but with no luck - anyone saw it ?
The news appeared after some Ukro claimed that they had taken out one of those.
Yet the provided material shows it being hit in the back with a drone, yet it hasn't even stopped to shoot both canons for a second.
Like hasn't even noticed the hit
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https://t.me/breakingmash/48194A Chinese citizen was wounded in the Belgorod region after a tank attack by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
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- Post n°396
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49
GunshipDemocracy Fri Sep 29, 2023 6:19 pm
ALAMO wrote:
The news appeared after some Ukro claimed that they had taken out one of those.
Y
it wasn't take out it was home delivery for him
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JohninMK- Posts : 15132
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Think this may have been a couple of days ago,
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GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6101
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- Post n°398
Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #49
GunshipDemocracy Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:45 pm
JohninMK wrote:Think this may have been a couple of days ago,
"coca cola plant"
This is a coke plant but industrial coke -a fuel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avdiivka_Coke_Plant
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50-70 per day is hard to beleive. It's not a small drone. That would be 2 per hour...
Possible only if they many production lines and good stocks of electronics, with China backing them.
Right now their military industry is busy producing everything they use so they can't just pop up a production like that. They also have not used the geran for months now in big waves, keeping them for the winter.
If they had 2000 geran per month, they would have atomized every target by now and wouldn't be shy in their use. [/quote]
the Geranium? 2000 a month should be pretty easy for Russia. Its not at all a major undertaking The entire fuse is moulded, all you gotta do is add engine, servos, guidance fuel and ammo. DONE. All that should be designed to snap in as sub assemblies.
Possible only if they many production lines and good stocks of electronics, with China backing them.
Right now their military industry is busy producing everything they use so they can't just pop up a production like that. They also have not used the geran for months now in big waves, keeping them for the winter.
If they had 2000 geran per month, they would have atomized every target by now and wouldn't be shy in their use. [/quote]
the Geranium? 2000 a month should be pretty easy for Russia. Its not at all a major undertaking The entire fuse is moulded, all you gotta do is add engine, servos, guidance fuel and ammo. DONE. All that should be designed to snap in as sub assemblies.
Last edited by mnztr on Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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