Russia and economic war by the west #3

Arkanghelsk wrote:https://english.elpais.com/economy-and-business/2024-02-26/the-kremlin-has-a-plan-confiscate-and-conquer.html

The Central Bank of Russia introduced the so-called Type C accounts at the beginning of the war “to prevent the withdrawal of funds and assets from Russia by residents of hostile countries.” Transactions between residents and non-residents were transferred to these accounts in order to keep that money in Russia until further notice. Among other restrictions, a ban was placed on the withdrawal of funds obtained from the sale of a company without the express authorization of the Ministry of Finance.

State news agency Ria Novosti estimated recently that Western assets in Russian accounts are valued at about $288 billion. However, they are numbers that must be read with caution: of the $223 billion attributed to European countries, $98.3 billion come from Cyprus, a favorite tax haven for super wealthy Russians. The oligarchs are currently using the island to evade some of the West’s sanctions on them. Conversely, Germany — Russia’s major trading partner until Putin invaded Ukraine — only has about $17.3 billion of trapped assets.

On April 25, 2023, one year and two months after launching his offensive on Ukraine, Putin signed a decree authorizing his government to “temporarily” take the helm of foreign companies’ assets in Russia. Also on that day, the federal agency for the management of state property, Rosimushchestvo, replaced the directors of two energy companies — the subsidiaries of the German company Uniper and the Finnish company Fortum, which account for a dozen thermal plants and the largest gas power plant in the country.

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It will be funny watching Durov come crawling to Moscow to sell Telegram at a discounted price like Vkontakte


It’s very simple , just cutoff telegram from Russian users and Durovs market collapses

Good luck competing with WhatsApp and Signal in western countries

kvs wrote:Seizure of Russian assets in NATzO is a retarded move by NATzO.   NATzO loses way more than it gains.   Russian investments are not
that large.   This includes the "300" billion CBR reserves which are less than 100 billion.    I have seen some estimates of the interest
on this "300" that NATzO is planning to seize without supposedly seizing the principal.   It is less than 5 billion.  With current interest
rates this is consistent with 100 billion and under.  

GarryB wrote:I personally think it is in Russias interests to over estimate the value of money seized, because their response is likely to be balanced so say 400 billion is seized or frozen then that entitles Russia to seize and equivalent amount... but did you pay attention... the draft law regarding the response is not limited to western government assets... it allows the seizure of company and private assets too owned by westerners... that means when Russia occupies Ukraine they can take assets owned by Bidens and Blackwaters and other evil entities all perfectly legally..

Sounds nice, with one tiny exception that it is based on false presumptions. False Is that Western governments owned any sizeable assets in Russia.

Try to be more factual next time. Wishful thinking, I know. Back to the Mig-35 section for you Garry.

GarryB wrote:
You are not paying attention  are you... the draft law Putin is putting through does not specifically state government owned assets... it can be privately owned or western company assets that can be seized in compensation...

Look at post 385 above by higurashihougi...


"Moscow could move to seize property owned by US-linked entities and citizens in Russia, should Washington attempt to confiscate Russian assets being held abroad, according to a decree signed by President Vladimir Putin on Thursday."

And there are still thousands of western companies that didn't leave Russia because their businesses are more profitable than their businesses in the west... now when it comes to seizing assets and property don't you think it makes sense to seize assets making a good profit?

I've never said otherwise.
I was just pointing to many false claims that you and other members here go to paint the picture so it suits your narratives.
As for amounts of frozen Western assets by Russian government in the country it comes to roughly same amount ( actually somewhat higher than amount of Russian liquid government reserves that are frozen in the West).

I never saw a ballpark estimate of frozen assets owned by Russian government owned companies and private subjects abroad.

As one of the other members, Vympel, I think, already pointed it is laughable how people go to great lengths to try and obfuscate every piece of news that is negative for Russia, be it a military loss, bad political decision or economical miscalculation.

Western firms ‘backtracking’ on Russia exit plans – FT

Russia’s strong economic performance is making the country more appealing for multinationals, the outlet reports

More than half of the foreign businesses that announced plans to leave Russia after the start of the Ukraine conflict have remained in the country, the Financial Times reported on Monday. A rebound in consumer activity and “bureaucratic obstacles” are making the companies stay, the outlet suggested.

British businesses such as cosmetics brand Avon and consumer goods company Reckitt, as well as French industrial gas producer Air Liquide, are among 2,173 overseas firms that continue to operate in Russia as of May 5, according to data compiled by the Kiev School of Economics. Around 1,600 firms either exited or curtailed their operations in the country, it added.

Scores of Western companies pledged to leave the Russian market shortly after Moscow launched its military operation against Ukraine in February 2022. Carmakers Volkswagen and Renault, oil and gas multinationals Shell and British Petroleum, fast-food chain McDonald’s, and Swedish furniture giant IKEA are among those that completed their exits.

Firms that left in the first weeks of the conflict saw “a moral imperative” to do so, an executive working with Western companies in Russia told FT. However, there has since been “a noticeable change in sentiment,” he added.

“The current wave is more about, ‘Do you really have to leave? Do you want to leave?’ Some of these companies have built four, five factories over 30 years. They’re not going to sell that for a 90% discount,” the outlet quoted the executive as saying.

Mondelez, Unilever, and Nestle are also among those that opted to stay. The chief executive of confectionery giant Mondelez recently told the FT that the firm’s shareholders did not “morally care” whether the group exited the country.

GarryB wrote:
Really? They often list it... 260 odd billion in that Euroclear place, and about 10-15 billion in the US and the rest amongst other G7 countries and ratbags of the west who do as they are told...  including Australia and Canada. Works out to roughly 300 billion give or take 10 billion or so.

It is not just about the money though... the very idea that these western countries that go on and on about international law would break international law and steal money and assets from a country blows all confidence in them as a place to keep money and assets... that Euroclear company might go tits up if it is forced to do this... because who can trust them after this?

GarryB wrote:
Mostly because that news generally comes from the west with spin on it to make it appear rather more negative than it actually is.

They would like for us to think Russia does not know what it is doing... it makes them look rather less incompetent...

Money frozen in Euroclear and deposit accounts and reserves is mostly Russian government reserves, some government owned companies and RCB. This is not what i was talking about.
For example, Rosneft has over 5 billion euros worth of assets in Germany alone (majority stake in one of the biggest German refineries among others) that is now put under receivership, Germany nationalized Gazprom Germany, Poland nationalized half of the stake in Yamal pipeline, etc. Those assets are also worth tens of billions. Also, Russian private companies. Lukoil's both refineries are in danger (in Burgas and Ploiesti) are in danger and other stuff.

Plenty of those from Russian sources, that later turned out to be true. I would say those were in majority. Of course, when same sources post something positive, no one complains.
But, i'm sure that you knew that already. In any case, it is a waste of time to even get into these kind of conversations with most people here.