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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:43 am

    Which Leo's? no upgraded T72 is better than the most modern Leo's, older ones maybe.
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    Post  mnztr Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:04 am

    Which Leo's? no upgraded T72 is better than the most modern Leo's, older ones maybe. wrote:


    In what sense, I think they are equivalent in firepower and armour. The T-72 is far lighter, and can fire ATGMs while the LEO cannot. I think the latest LEO is the Polish POL variant no?
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:09 am

    "In what sense, I think they are equivalent in firepower and armour. The T-72 is far lighter, and can fire ATGMs while the LEO cannot. I think the latest LEO is the Polish POL variant no?"

    Better gun, fire control, stabilization etc, faster (talking about pure speed not weight). Just better overall.

    Yes the T72 can fire an ATGM BUT it's not meant to destroy tanks like Leo's it's meant to take out very lightly armored vehicles like trucks, probs weak IFVs etc, I am of course talking about a frontal ht, because if the t72 got a side of rear shot no reason not to use the gun instead.

    To be clear I am not saying the most modern t72 is a bad tank, no its decent for what it is just saying it's not superior to the most lastest Leo's only old old models
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    Post  Isos Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:13 am

    Who cares if the leo has 5% advantage in certain aspects over a t-72 or t-90.

    Lancet will easily destroy it.

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    Post  lyle6 Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:38 am

    Even if the Leopard 2A6 is better than a T-90M (debatable btw), ya'll nibbas are still missing the forest for the trees.

    A 60 ton vehicle has no place in the mudpit that is rural Ukraine at this time of the year. They simply didn't have much time to let the soil dry out and drain; the second a Leo2 drives through a dry-ish patch of ground it will strip the topsoil exposing the damp muck beneath for everyone else following behind to churn further. And when the tank inevitably gets stuck the only vehicles capable of towing it out are its fellow Leopard 2s which are far and few in between in the first place.

    In short, its a massive, massive liability even if its combat abilities far outstrip those of its opponents. Ukraine would be better served if they used their diplomatic pull to bring back their T-84Ms in Thai service to or their T-80UDs from the Pakistanis, but no, they want to larp like nazis. I mean they got the vehicle and the uniforms and the tactics mostly right, now they just have to die like the nazis did.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:47 am

    "Who cares if the leo has 5% advantage in certain aspects over a t-72 or t-90."

    Not five percent but that's a silly way to dumb things down and I wasn't talking about ATGM's like Lancet, that literally has nothing to do with my statement
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    Post  Mir Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:06 am

    What happened to the LAHAT missile upgrade program for the German Leopard 2's?

    Even if the Leopard was 3x better than the T-72 these tanks would still be sitting ducks as they lack basic air support - not to mention sufficient technical and tactical backup.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:18 am

    that literally has nothing to do with my statement

    That is because your statement is dumb.
    As any other, you ever made here that only touches any technical aspects.
    You know nothing, John Snow.
    That is the point.

    Lancet is not ATGM, where "AT" stands for ANTI TANK.
    It is a multipurpose loitering ammunition, with a relatively low-yield warhead made this way by purpose to keep collateral damage controlled.
    Can it be used as equivalent to ATGM? Well, sure. Yet it's penetration even with a bigger warhead is compromised.
    The newest Russkie dedicated ATGMs pierce more than 1500 mm of steel, while Lancet can be compared with your crappy TOW at most.
    A bulk of delivered L2s will be A4 variant, which is equivalent to 72A/M models at most. The sole difference is a thermal imager, but it is a piece of crap unable to be used in real combat.
    I will tell you a secret.
    Ukro trainees managed to burn a few in tanks they were given for training.
    Funny, isn't it?

    And no, 72s can't use GLATM in general, only 72B and the following ones can.
    So no, no missiles available for neither Polish delivered 72Ms, nor Polish delivered PT-91A, nor Slovakian, Macedonian, Czech or Hungarian delivered 72Ms.

    And no, L2/M1/Ch2 is not a big deal for 9M119, as it pierces much more than is needed.

    Ukraine would be better served if they used their diplomatic pull to bring back their T-84Ms in Thai service to or their T-80UDs from the Pakistanis, but no, they want to larp like nazis.

    My educated guess is, that both Thai and Paks would show a middle finger if asked.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:15 am

    "Lancet is not ATGM, where "AT" stands for ANTI TANK"

    I was doing 20 different things and made a small mistake, big whoops doesn't change what I said at all. I saw Lancet and thought Kornet cause I glanced, A mistake on my end sure.

    Yet here you are again throwing out more insults child.

    Also, you're an idiot. Th type of ATGM used by T72 DOESN'T have those penetration characteristics, that's a flat out lie on your part.

    "A bulk of delivered L2s will be A4 variant, which is equivalent to 72A/M models at most. The sole difference is a thermal imager, but it is a piece of crap unable to be used in real combat.
    I will tell you a secret."


    Again has nothing to do with what I said, I was talking about the newest Leo Models not the ones Ukraine will get, your putting words in my mouth ass clown.

    Ukro trainees managed to burn a few in tanks they were given for training.

    Proof, you say tons of stuff that are lies and the second I ask for any evidence you just go on rage filled insult rants cause ya can't produce it, That said Russians have lost tanks in training, does that make them incompetent morons? Funny how selective and one side your views are
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    Post  billybatts91 Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:28 am

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:51 am

    Billy, can you put that video in the right place as well please? Interesting but O/T here and might be missed by someone not into this thread.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:56 am

    The Russian Army in 2013 had around 100 T-55s in a Reserve Capacity with around 500 in Storage awaiting Decommissioning; it’s likely now that they have less than 300 Operational T-54/T-55s at this point.

    But how many does the Russian Naval Infantry have because they were the most recent users of such vehicles... including the use of such vehicles fitted with the APS system called Drozd in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

    German study on DU ammo from 2012 by German section of International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War

    The Germans actually upgraded their 120mm tank gun from an L/44 to an L/55 gun to achieve the same performance with tungsten in the L/55 gun that the DU round achieves in the L/44 gun.

    (L/xx is a description of a gun by indicating its barrel length... in this case a L/44 gun is 44 times the calibre long, so 120mm x 44 = 5.28m long barrel, so the L/55 version has a 120 x 55 = 6.6m long barrel.)

    Pretty dumb to not have upgraded the t-55/62 from long time ago.

    And if they upgraded them in 1995 they would need another upgrade before they could be put into service.

    Perfectly normal to not upgrade vehicles in storage and to upgrade them with standard stuff when they are used.

    They could have been also given to allies like SAA, Wagner or donbas soldiers.

    They likely still have thousands of T-72s in storage which would make more sense.

    But using up old tanks in storage and their ammo does make sense but when both are gone then new vehicles will go into storage to use next time.

    One plausible theory imo is if the tanks are being sent to Ukraine they will be used as long range support tanks, Iran produces a round heat around that those tanks can fire.

    A long range support tank might be a T-14 with a 152mm main gun... long range support tanks generally have more powerful guns, not less powerful guns.

    For all we know they might be getting upgrades and going to Syria, or they might be going to the scrapyard, or the Russian Navy might want some more T-55AMs.

    The missiles they fire have HEAT warheads too...

    I mean the removing of badly needed captured munitions from the troops, the stupid and costly frontal attacks, and other strange actions.

    Foreign ammo that the enemy complained about because it was ancient stock and unreliable... I would not trust it in the hands of troops I want to win.

    Those NLAW tubes were enormous, and Javelin is not tiny for what it is either.

    Here GarryB´s fetish for airships or tethered ballons is justified. Equipped with EO systems they could search for
    these craft.

    Not to mention they could have antenna arrays that detect objects moving past a line... keep them tethered and on alert for months at a time unmanned...

    It won't work bro, and that is the issue.
    Those drones are powered by electric motors that emit extremely low heat.

    They don't have to be hot... a decent high grade thermal imager that sees in the IR spectrum can see objects and a moving object can be picked out amongst stationary objects through AI processing...

    The fabled counter offensive is underway

    The real kicker is that of the three vehicles the vehicle at the extreme rear is the one with the mine plough spades that normally operates at the front of any column moving through a mine field...

    Regarding the discussions about Leopards, lets see what they are getting first, I would say the bulk of the ones they get first might be Leo 1s in which case they are not comparable with any model T-72, but the real core of their problems is that nobody is talking about hundreds of tanks let alone thousands so they could be getting T-14s for all it really matters because air power and anti armour power of the Russian forces is more than the T-72s they have deployed... tiny pockets of armour deployed by Kievs forces on the battlefield to support their attacks will have an impact but will also be targeted by ground and air forces, and most of the things that kill them the wont even see coming...

    The missiles the Russians can fire from their tank guns are quite capable of penetrating even quite modern vehicles from the front.

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    Post  Hole Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:07 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Fr-dkq10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Fr-hfn10
    Russian troops are supposedly here.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Fr-mna10
    Chuba on a mission

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    Post  Hole Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:08 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Fr9-tw10
    Nice shovel.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Fr9yk610
    Propably singing "Katyusha"  Laughing
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Fr-k9610
    German AT mine. Worked great.  Rolling Eyes

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:35 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Photo156


    Iranian 80 mm unguided rockets were already delivered to the Ukrowehrmacht.
    Seized en route to Yemen, but shows quite clearly the scale of desperate.
    This zoo contains everything that can be digged, robbed, and simply fit the bore...

    And something juicy - money talk Twisted Evil

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Photo157


    Allowances for a contract soldier.

    I will try to translate that, so will edit the post.

    395k RUB - single payment for enlisting.

    157-187k RUB a month for operating outside the RF borders, 46-87k RUB a month while on the Russian territory, 50-300k RUB grant for a different destroyed enemy toys.
    8k RUB daily when at war.

    In a case of WIA :
    3 mln RUB single payment, 2.9 mln RUB when discharged, 78-313k RUB insurer payment.

    In case of being crippled :

    0.8-2.3 mln RUB insurance payment, regarding the scale of being crippled, the other payments are covering monthly additional allowances to the military pension.

    In case of KIA :

    4.4 mln RUB as single payment provided by the region where the military unit is located, additional 5 mln RUB single payment provided by the region where the military unit is located, 3 mln RUB single payment provided by the republican budget (where the soldier lived).
    3.1 mln RUB insurance payment.
    10k RUB a month family allowance.
    50% of the "dienezneye dovolstvo" - no idea what that means, help folks - for any non-working family member

    In case of crippled/KIA : they repeat the same as above plus some monthly allowances to the pension I suppose.

    Please check Russian speakers bros if I made some fukups pirat

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    Post  nomadski Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:16 pm





    I think those 80mm , have GPS tracker fitted ! Should leave more gifts for the Orcs . I think Iran has a lot of ex-soviet/ Russian equipment in storage . They are not using them or likely to need them , anytime soon . So they can exchange these for things Iran needs , like the 5 tons of 3.5% enriched perfume , given in JCPOA non-existent deal ! They could be used for medical purposes . One way to hit back for DU shells !

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:25 pm

    UMPK modules are getting more and more common.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Photo158

    A school building in Belopolie transferred into barracks received some.

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    Post  Scorpius Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:41 pm

    @ALAMO
    50% of the monetary allowance of the deceased serviceman is paid to each disabled family member as a survivor's pension. The monetary allowance is most likely calculated according to the peacetime staffing table, and in fact is the salary of a serviceman without allowances for combat operations, so the amount of "50% of the monetary allowance" in practice is likely to range from 10 to 25 thousand rubles per month.

    In total, the family of the deceased in military service while performing military duties in the SVO will receive: 4.4 million + 3.1 million + 5 million + 3 million = 15.5 million rubles once, and then up to 10 thousand rubles of monthly compensation for life (for example, to his wife) and from 10 to 25 thousand rubles monthly for each minor child up to when they reach the age of 18 (or up to 23 years if the child goes to university after school and cannot work).


    In addition, it is written in small letters below: benefits for participants of the SVO and their families: credit holidays, gasification (this applies to those who live in non-gasified houses, the cost of connection will be fully reimbursed by the state), compensation for housing and communal services, free travel, rehabilitation, vouchers to sanatoriums, etc.

    As for credit holidays: The State Duma adopted a law according to which everyone called up to participate in the SVO is granted credit holidays for the time of his mobilization, as well as his family members. In the event of his death or disability, all loans will be written off at the expense of the state. And the term "loans" means ALL loans, including mortgages.

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    Post  Isos Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:14 pm

    They likely still have thousands of T-72s in storage which would make more sense.

    But using up old tanks in storage and their ammo does make sense but when both are gone then new vehicles will go into storage to use next time.

    As an infantry support vehicle, t-55 makes more sense. It's lighter and can be more mobile. Just need some average thermals and upgraded computer with kontakt-5 ERA.

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    Post  Isos Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:18 pm

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    Post  Arrow Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:21 pm

    More and more T 90M.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Bff42519e9a1
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 5233aaea465e


    Last edited by Arrow on Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Hole Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:22 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Fr-z_f10
    Kherson region
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Scree622
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #40 - Page 30 Scree623
    Loading the AGS-30 of an BMP-2 with Berezhok turret.

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:25 pm

    Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation (24.03.2023)

    ◽ In the Kupyan direction, active actions of the units, air strikes and artillery fire of the "Western" group of troops defeated the enemy's manpower and equipment in the areas of Dvurechnaya, Sinovka, Kislovka of the Kharkiv region, Novoselovskoye and Stelmakhovka of the Luhansk People's Republic.

    💥 Up to 60 Ukrainian servicemen, two armored fighting vehicles, two vehicles, a D-20 howitzer, and two Polish-made Krab self-propelled artillery units were destroyed.

    ◽ In the Krasno-Limanskoe direction, air strikes, artillery fire and heavy flamethrower systems of the Group of Forces (Forces) Center hit enemy units in the areas of the settlements of Nevske of the Luhansk People's Republic, Yampolovka and Hryhorovka of the Donetsk People's Republic.

    💥 During the day, up to 125 Ukrainian servicemen, three armored combat vehicles, and one Grad MLRS vehicle were destroyed in this direction.

    ◽ In the Donetsk direction, as a result of active operations of the Southern Group of Forces units, air strikes and artillery fire, over 380 Ukrainian servicemen, one tank, two infantry fighting vehicles, ten vehicles, a pickup truck, as well as two Gvozdika self-propelled howitzers were destroyed during the day.

    ◽ On the South Donetsk and Zaporizhzhya directions, strikes by operational and tactical aviation and army aviation and artillery fire of the Vostok Group of Forces hit AFU units in the areas of Ugledar, Novomikhailovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, Lugovskoye and Shcherbaki of the Zaporizhzhya region.

    💥 The enemy losses in these directions during the day amounted to more than 40 Ukrainian servicemen, two pickup trucks, a D-30 howitzer, and one Polish-made Krab self-propelled artillery unit.

    💥 In the Kherson direction, up to 40 Ukrainian servicemen, two vehicles, a Gvozdika self-propelled howitzer, as well as one US-made M777 artillery system were destroyed as a result of enemy fire during the day.

    💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery of groups of troops (forces) of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation hit 87 artillery units of the AFU in firing positions, manpower and equipment in 109 areas.

    💥 A hangar with AFU drones was destroyed near Sukhoy Liman, Odessa region.

    💥 An ammunition depot of the Foreign Legion mercenary units was destroyed near Konstantinovka, Donetsk People's Republic.

    💥 Also, a US-made AN/TPQ-37 counter-battery radar station was destroyed near the village of Stepnoe, Zaporizhia region.

    💥 The air defense forces intercepted three HIMARS MBRLS rockets during the day.

    💥 In addition, 18 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down in the areas of Dvurechnoye (Kharkiv region), Holikovo, Chervonopopovka (Luhansk People's Republic), Slavne, Novoandreyevka, Volnovakha, Nikolskoye and Aleksandrovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

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    Post  Hole Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:26 pm

    As an infantry support vehicle
    At least 95% of all tank footage shows T-72 or T-90 tanks shooting at infantry in buildings or fortifications/trenches.
    In some areas using older /upgradd) tanks could be better, freeing some modern (better protected) tanks for other
    purposes.

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    Post  famschopman Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:34 pm

    I just wonder, seeing those lancets, how much of an obstruction those optics are in terms of reducing the effectiveness of the warhead. For air to air missiles they will explode in front of the target with an outward pattern. These lancets have a forward pattern; so the warhead and its contents need to pass all the electronics in front before slicing through the intended target.

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