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    Russian Civil Aviation: News #5

    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:45 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:They cover different niches, furthermore a turboprop in that class has lower fuel consumption and it is better to operate from remote and poor services area.
    The Ladoga (as the An-24) is also supposed to be able to operate from unprepared airstrips.
    Even then it has massive overlap with the Il-114. It is going to compete with it in what is already a minuscule market. I see little point in building it.

    The only reason they built that many An-24s to begin with is back then it had little competition. Turbofans weren't available and turbojets gobbled fuel. Turboprops were vast speed improvement over radial engines. Try checking how many ATR-72 and Bombardier Dash 8 aircraft are in operation in Russia. Not that many.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:35 pm

    \"lancelot” wrote:
    Even then it has massive overlap with the Il-114. It is going to compete with it in what is already a minuscule market. I see little point in building it.

    It has not overlap with the il-114, and there is a 50% passenger difference.
    Unfortunately, since the il-114 is a low wing aircraft they cannot be just a shortened or lengthened version of each other, like it is for the dash-8 (Q200, Q300 and Q400) or for the ATR- 42 & ATR-72. 

    However they have at least two versions of the same engines and I believe many internal, avionic and navigation systems can be shared between the Ladoga and the il-114.

    The Ladoga is in the same class as ATR-42 and the Dash-8 Q200 (and a little bit smaller than the dash-8 Q300).

    The il-114 can replace in Russian airlines the dash-8 Q400 and the ATR-72, but it cannot cover for the smaller segment, and as I wrote it is a high wing aircraft (preferred by some regional airlines for remote operations).

    The Ladoga can be in service in 2026/2027.

    If they wanted to do a brand new project from scratches, a replacement for An-24, Dash-8 and ATR-42 will not be ready before at least further 8 years.

    \"lancelot” wrote:
    As for why I don't like the Ladoga. It has an utterly obsolete airframe design. It looks just like an old Soviet aircraft from the 1950s. Just design a new airframe. Even the Chinese can do this.
    In my opinion it looks quite fine. From the front it even looks like a high speed train.

    And it is definitely not worse looking than the western equivalents.

    Here some pictures to compare

    [size=48]Dash-8 Q-200[/size]
    https://skybrary.aero/sites/default/files/DH8B.jpgRussian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 18 DH8B


    [size=48]ATR-42[/size]
    https://cdn.airlines-inform.ru/upload/iblock/5d8/ATR-42.jpgRussian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 18 ATR-42


    https://www.aerospace-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2017/10/ATR42-500_1.jpgRussian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 18 ATR42-500_1




    [size=48]And finally Ladoga [/size]
    https://cdn.airlines-inform.ru/upload/iblock/2ad/tvrs-44-ladoga.jpgRussian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 18 Tvrs-44-ladoga


    \"lancelot” wrote: The only reason they built that many An-24s to begin with is back then it had little competition. Turbofans weren't available and turbojets gobbled fuel. Turboprops were vast speed improvement over radial engines. Try checking how many ATR-72 and Bombardier Dash 8 aircraft are in operation in Russia. Not that many.


    Even now with modern engines a 40 passenger turboprop cruising at 450 to 500 km/h is much more fuel efficient than a regional jet cruising at 800 to 850 km/h.


    Of course the jet is faster, but in remote routes with limited servicing and rough airstrips the regional turboprop is preferable.




    There are some of them still in operation in Russia, and Russia wanted to incentivate regional aviation, also to better connect some remote areas (and that is why also Baikal and An-2 are needed). The problem was also that there was no russian aircraft of that class in production.


    Just to have some examples
    Aurora operates dash-8 q200 and q300


    Yakutia also has a few q300


    Iraero still operates several An-24 


    Krasavia has some ATR-42


    Etc etc 


    Such aircrafts are used and requested in Russia (and also 40 to 50 passengers regional jets, but they belong to a different niche, currently covered by embraer and bombardier regional jets).




    \"lancelot” wrote:
    There were plans to make a shortened version of the Superjet with 75 seats aka SSJ75. They could just use that.


    Absolutely, and I hope they will do also the stretched version of the SJ100. However, both the shortened and the stretched version will have to wait for the fully Russian SJ100 is in service first.


    I also believe that there is also a market for both the 115-120 passenger version of the SJ100 and for the shortened version of the MC-21 (the MC-21-200), but that.


    But all of this is a different class of aircraft than a smaller regional jet.


    They can do a 30 to 50 passenger regional jet with a cabin for 3 or 4 seats abreast, once a new small turbofan engine with a takeoff thrust of about 3 to 4 tons is ready 


    \"lancelot” wrote:
    The problem is there are no engines for this aircraft. It was planned to use the Ukrainian Al-22. In theory you could make a turbofan with the Al-222 engine core but that would need to be developed. The Soyuz R126M-300 engine was also proposed at one point but it hasn't been developed either.


    Russia is developing a low bypass SM-100 engine as a deep modernisation of the AI-222 of the Yak -130.


    They could also do a high bypass derivative of th  SM-100/AI-222 for small regional jets and business jets, unless they decide to make a new common core to be shared between a turbofan and a 3500-4500KW (4500 to 6000 hp) turboprop/turboshaft (like the Allison (now Rolls-Royce North America) AE 3007 (US military: F137) (mounted on the ERJ family ) which shares a common core Rolls-Royce T406 (AE 1107) of the V22 Osprey and AE 2100 of the C-130 and C-27J.

    Of course the development of that engine takes time, so it will be several years before it can be ready.

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    Post  kvs Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:08 pm

    They are more efficient for short trips (e.g. 600 km) but the overhead with airport security makes train travel more optimal. As long as there is a
    reasonable speed, dedicated rail line option available. The train can carry more passengers and consumes less fuel per passenger.

    For regions without rail and road infrastructure, the regional turbo-props and even prop aircraft are the only option. Russia and Canada both
    have lots of subarctic real estate with a sparsely distributed population with travel ranges well over 600 km. But Russia also has large high
    latitude cities as well (e.g. Novosibirsk) which Canada does not have. Russia has a much bigger market than Canada for turbo-props and
    regional jets. I do not think pure economics arguments fly. If regional aircraft are too expensive, then the government must subsidize them.
    That is what running a country is all about. Some parts pay for other parts. Laissez-faire dogma is myopic and optimizes poverty in spite
    of what its adherents rabidly believe. (BTW, this is the reason why the EU is a dysfunctional entity; it tries to act as a unitary state but is
    compartmentalized to the member states which gives us the Greek financial crisis outcome.)

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Dec 17, 2023 6:43 pm

    By the way, I had a look at the Tu-324 data. It is very interesting.
    While I deem the larger Tu-334 as dead as a doornail, I believe that this regional jet could be promising, especially if they do a new version which shares the avionics, navigation and internal systems of the the SJ100.

    Of course the problem is that now the 3-4 tons thrust turbofan will have to wait for a few more years.

    Paradoxically, the longer Tu-414 could be ready earlier, since it could use a PD-8 derated to something like 6.5 tons of thrust.

    It this case Russia could poll the various airlines about it and decide if it is preferable to produce 
    •  a shortened version of the SJ-100 with 75 passengers (cabin 3.2 m wide, five seats abreast) 
    •  Or the Tu-414 (cabin 2.64 m wide, 4 seats abreast).


    In 2019 S7 said that it was interested to up to 100 aircrafts in this class (regional jets, 75 passengers).

    In case the Tu-414 would win the competition, then additional work on the SJ-100 could be dedicated instead to do the 120 passengers stretched version.

    Edit:

    In 2015 Tatarstan and the Kazan plant were trying to get support for starting production of this aircraft (many years after it was abandoned) but it did not get any support at all from Tupulev, from UAC or from Russian government. In part I can understand, as there was no indigenous engine and it did not make much sense to base it on the AI-22 in a period when cooperation with Ukraine was not possible.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:25 am

    Russia needs both a turboprop aircraft with about 70 seats and one with about 40.
    The il-114 only cover the upper segment.

    Why is it that the planes you like and support can be adapted to other roles, while the planes they have that you don't support or like cannot?

    If the Ladoga can be converted from an airliner passenger aircraft to a rear ramp cargo aircraft as you suggest, why can't the Il-114 come in a shortened 40 seater version?

    I am not sure it was Ukraine that killed the Tu-334, even if the longer versions of the an-148/an-158 (An-74 derivative) covered the same niche.

    They had Antonov and they didn't want any competition from Tupolev or Yakovlev or Sukhoi or Ilyusion... or anyone else for that matter.

    It is like saying that a luxury sedan is faster than a off road vehicle...

    Not really... a jet can be just as useful on a rough airstrip as a turboprop... look at the An-72 and soon the Il-212 which will both be high wing jets but operating at jet speeds.

    Here in New Zealand we have experience with the Hercules, but ironically we would have been much better off with something bigger like an Il-76 as politically unacceptable as that would be. The C-130 is slow and flies through weather the Il-76 could fly over, and when carrying a large payload our Hercs can barely fly to Australia before they need to refuel. When flying to Pacific Islands we have to take fuel from the islands we hop from to get to where we are going... which is terrible... rich powerful huge New Zealand flying through these places using up their expensive fuel supplies on our way... with an Il-76 we could stop off at many of those places and deliver things instead of burn up their fuel reserves.

    When operating at max weights of course the Il-76s needs long paved runways, but at reduced weights can operate from the same grass strips the C-130 operates from... The Il-78 could be used to deliver fuel to the islands in emergency situations.

    For Russia, investing in proper runways and rail lines and new highways is something they should be doing moving forward anyway, the far north and far east have traditionally been neglected in terms of transport options. The introduction of high speed trains and new airfields should help change the needs in terms of aircraft.

    The difference in price for fuel burn is not a huge factor and air routes in these regions have generally been heavily subsidised anyway.

    They cover different niches, furthermore a turboprop in that class has lower fuel consumption and it is better to operate from remote and poor services area.
    The Ladoga (as the An-24) is also supposed to be able to operate from unprepared airstrips.

    The engine configuration of the Il-212 should allow operations at rough airstrips too.

    Even then it has massive overlap with the Il-114. It is going to compete with it in what is already a minuscule market. I see little point in building it.

    Another good point, the relatively limited market it makes little sense for the civil airlines to fund Ladoga and for the Russian military to buy Il-114 and Il-212.

    The Il-112V was designed with a bloated body to maximise internal volume for its transport role but a slimline version with the same engines as the Il-114 would give you the aircraft the Ladoga is trying to be.

    In a sense it is like having the Tu-330, but without suitable engines but you could use existing engines to make a Tu-204 from it as an airliner so you don't have to introduce something foreign.

    Even now with modern engines a 40 passenger turboprop cruising at 450 to 500 km/h is much more fuel efficient than a regional jet cruising at 800 to 850 km/h.

    When you are flying 2,000km the speed difference makes a huge difference. The difference in fuel burn wont be very important... especially if there is turbulence over the Urals.

    Of course the jet is faster, but in remote routes with limited servicing and rough airstrips the regional turboprop is preferable.

    They are both jet engines. I rather doubt servicing of one would be much different from servicing the other.

    In 2015 Tatarstan and the Kazan plant were trying to get support for starting production of this aircraft

    This is part of Russias problem... so many factions with vested interests in specific solutions. When we hear airlines demand high wing turboprops is that because that is what they wanted or is that because they are run by 5th columnists who want Let -610 type planes and An-140 type planes because they know there is no suitable Russian alternative ready to go so they can look to western aircraft instead... which was their goal in the first place.

    You might think I am being paranoid, but the Russians that think the west is the future and the only reason the west is mean to Russia is Putin and if Putin were gone everything would be peachy are everywhere. Western propaganda is powerful... and everywhere.

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    Post  Kiko Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:42 am

    The crew of the Tu-214 is planned to be reduced to two people, 12.21.2023.

    GosNIIAS: for the Tu-214 they are studying the possibility of reducing the crew from three to two people.

    MOSCOW, December 21 – RIA Novosti. The crew of the Russian Tu-214 passenger airliner can be reduced from three to two people to increase the economic efficiency of the aircraft, Deputy Director General of the State Research Institute of Aviation Systems (GosNIIAS) Nikolai Selvesyuk said in an interview with RIA Novosti.
    "
    “The issue of creating a semi-real-life stand for testing the cockpit of a Tu-214 aircraft with a crew of two is being considered. Currently, the standard for this aircraft is three crew members. A three-member crew is economically more expensive for airlines, so the task of moving to a two-member crew is very urgent,” Selvesyuk said 

    As Vadim Korolev, managing director of the Tupolev company, noted in June, the Kazan aircraft plant should begin producing 20 Tu-214 aircraft per year from 2027. He clarified that the confirmed need for Tu-214 aircraft is up to 150 units for the period until 2032: there are firm contracts for 20 aircraft, agreements of intent have been signed for 67 aircraft, and there are applications from potential customers for 61 aircraft.

    It is planned that the Tu-214 will be modified; there will be no foreign materials and products left in its design.

    GoSNIIAS is a leading Russian research center for the development of on-board aviation systems and equipment.

    https://ria.ru/20231221/tu-214-1917118242.html

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:09 am

    That is important.

    It is however to be said that there is a lot of lobbying being done by Tatarstan and the Kazan plant on this aircraft.

    In this article they also mentions that in some public statements they even "miscalculated" some of the capabilities of the MC-21 to show that in some areas the Tu-214 is better.

    The article is maybe too pessimistic, but has some important considerations 

    But it is important to be ready for both aircraft types. There could be many things going wrong so it is fundamental to have a backup ready.

    The additional aircrafts later can still be converted for cargo usage (replacing foreign types like 737) or for special military applications or even sold abroad.

    https://aviation21.ru/chto-ne-tak-s-vozobnovleniem-serijnogo-proizvodstva-tu-214/

    Anyway it has been shown that the tu-214 was not entirely russian and that it needed a certain small amount of import substitution. Furthermore, while the irkusk plant (and I imagine also the supply chain) has been prepared for serial production, the same was not true for the Tu-214, which, like the il-96 in Voronezh, can currently only be produced in very small numbers for special military and government needs.

    In mid-June 2022, Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Yuri Borisov statedthat it takes three to five years to launch serial production of the Tu-214 in the required quantity. Modernization of production, education and training of personnel is required, and funds are needed for this.

    Actually this is a very important news anyway.
    Independently from Tu-214 production, if Russia want to substitute foreign planes it needs to have a capable and trained workforce and proper facilities.

    Later on the same facilities could be used also to produce Tu-330 transport aircrafts and maybe Tu-324 and Tu-414 regional aircraft, especially if they increase commonalities with the internal systems of other russian planes (like SJ100 and Il-114).

    The same thing (modernisation of production, possibly building new facilities and education and training of personnel) will have to be done in Voronezh as well, so that starting from 2028 they can be able to produce the il-96 derivative with 2 PD-35 engines.

    Anyway the problem with all of this is that the Tu-214 will not be in production at a decent pace before the MC-21.
    Nevertheless it is important to pursue it anyway.
    Many aircrafts are needed, and the money invested in the plant will have other benefits anyway.

    And the Tu-214 can still be a stopgap while the MC-21-400 is not produced.

    Even the shortened version of tu-214 can have a market as well.

    P.S. please correct me if I am wrong.

    Is the military part of Kazan plant (which produces Tu-160 and modernises Tu-22M3) independent (I mean in facilities and personnel) from the part responsible for Tu-214?

    In Amur my understanding is that they can have concurrently serial production of Su-35 and SJ100 without impacting on each other.

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    Post  Kiko Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:28 pm

    Manturov: for the Il-96-400M it is necessary to determine the thrust of the PD-35 engine, 12.25.2023.

    In November, the long-range aircraft Il-96-400M made its first flight. For the Russian aviation industry, this means that the Il-96 aircraft is getting a second life, but will be used as a cargo plane. About itstatedDeputy Prime Minister and Head of the Ministry of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov in an interview with RIA Novosti.

    According to him, the aircraft received a new look with an enlarged fuselage, modernized avionics and a number of other units, including the PS-90A1 engine. First of all, the plane can carry out cargo transportation, which is what the market is currently interested in.

    “If we see continued keen interest in this car on the part of transport companies, then we will move on – to remotorization. The most promising and competitive would be to install two engines instead of the current four,” the minister said.

    In the future, the aircraft can be used for passenger transportation, but first it is necessary to choose the optimal solution for engine thrust: 26, 35 or 38 tons. “The work of designers, engine builders and aviators is currently underway; after receiving the final design of the demonstrator in March, it will be clear in which direction to move,” explained Denis Manturov.

    He noted that the PD-35 engine, which is being created at UEC-Aviadvigatel, should be suitable for a transport aircraft with a payload of at least 100 tons, and for a wide-body, long-haul civil airliner. “In addition to the Il-96-400, we are conducting research work on a completely new wide-body long-range aircraft of the next generation, which should be created already beyond the horizon of 2030,”÷ Manturov added.

    At the beginning of December, the Il-96-400T cargo aircraft (RA-96103) of Sky Gates Airlines began transporting commercial cargo after the procedure for restoring airworthiness. The Il-96-400M airliner is a passenger version of a cargo aircraft. Compared to the basic version of the Il-96-300, the fuselage of these aircraft is 9.35 meters longer.

    The maximum payload of the Il-96-400T is 92 tons, the flight range at maximum load is 5,000 kilometers. When loaded with 40 tons, the aircraft is capable of covering a distance of 12,000 kilometers.

    https://aviation21.ru/manturov-dlya-il-96-400m-neobxodimo-opredelitsya-s-tyagoj-dvigatelya-pd-35/

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    Post  lancelot Fri Dec 29, 2023 11:02 pm

    SJ-100 aircraft number 97012 with PD-8 engines under the wing at 3:35.



    The aircraft is supposedly conducting ground tests to check for integration of the engines with the aircraft right now.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:49 am

    Good history and coverage of the Il-114.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:Good history and coverage of the Il-114.

    Very interesting video.i also had a look at the videos for the VK650 and VK-1600.


    As far as the il-114 it is a compromise but it is good enough for what it needs to do, especially if paired with a smaller high wing aircraft (like the Ladoga) and later to a nice regional jet like the Tu-324
    After they have all of these aircrafts and their engine in serial production and in service they can think about something more innovative and revolutionary

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:38 am

    What the military might end up with is the low wing Il-114 with good range and performance but also an An-72 replacement in the Il-212 with PD-8 jet engines, and later on the Il-112V with improved prop engines in the 4-5K hp range when that is finally ready.

    All these sanctions have massively clarified things and brought into proper focus that Western equipment can't be relied upon or trusted simply because their governments are extensions of the US and do not follow national interests at all. Germany has lost cheap energy, but also cheap materials but also a huge market for their high end products like turbines that most other countries who don't pipe gas or oil have no interest in.

    Instead of continuing to sabotage food production and airliner production and engine production in Russia, they have basically forced Russia to pull its finger out and make it itself. In the short term that means problems and some pain because they can't use what they have and can't do all the things they want but the government is investing in Russian production to fill those gaps which is good investment because the ability for Russia to fill those gaps also equates to Russia being able to fill those gaps for BRICS countries too if they are interested.

    The west wasn't generally interested in selling state of the art stuff to Russia, so most of the stuff they are replacing is 50 or 60 or even 70 years old which means Russia can use new tooling and new materials and improved design based on decades of experience using the products to improve performance and most often reduce costs because the west wasn't giving this stuff away for free.

    Now the west has lost a good customer, and have caused temporary problems but a real competitor for the future who is not going to want to do them any favours moving forward... how dumb are they in the US... Russia should be overjoyed that they are this stupid.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:26 am

    Yes partially it was the western product and partially it was the parts and airplanes sourced in Ukraine or produced together with Ukraine.

    Russia could have maybe started earlier to get independent from Ukrainian parts and products, but that would have created many more problems and in that case maidan coup could have happened much earlier. At the beginning of Putin's rule, Russia was not ready to detach from Ukrainian products.

    Putin is not a all-powerful ruler, and he could not force the total independence form Ukraine and from the west earlier.
    Once the mess was done in a few years between 1991 and 1999 reverting it and getting back to produce parts and aircraft in par with the competition means massive investments and many years of efforts.

    By the way, even the Tu-214 has a certain percentage (between 10 and 15%) of foreign parts. It is possible that those were previously sourced from Ukraine.

    So probably that is the reason why they are repairing old tu-214 and tu-204 that were mothballed, but they have not yet started serial production of new tu-214.

    The tu-204sm could have had some export possibilities in countries that had problems with America or EU, but the American contents in both the aircraft and in the PS-90A2 engine modification made impossible to sell the aircraft to countries like Iran, Venezuela or North Korea.

    Before someone starts making other critics to cancelled projects, the Tu-334 (shortened version of tu-204 proposed as regional jet alternative to SJ100) had Ukrainian engines and some other Ukrainian parts. The Tu-324 was a brand new concept for a smaller regional jet but it had the same problems as the SJ-100 (the engines were supposed to be made half in Russia and half in Ukraine, and avionics, navigations landing gears were all planned to be of western origin (as in the SSJ100).

    The problem here is also that until 2018 no company in Russia (or in Ukraine) was making modern internal aircraft system for civilian planes which were on par with what can be sourced from abroad.

    And even in the west I doubt there is a single country that can build a really modern aircraft without any parts from abroad.

    Airbus aircrafts are build across 4 countries, plus they imports other parts from other countries. The engines also have a lot of non-eu contents (mainly American, but not only).

    Even Boeing airliners contains many non American parts.

    Other people, especially in Russian forums criticized the abandoned engine project like the NK-93, but we already discussed about it (it was not a priority, it was larger, meaning that it would be heavier and cause a higher drag than other engines (so a part of the advantages would be compromised by these factors), the noise could have been a factor as well, and finally it was almost in the same thrust niche as the only civilian aircraft engine produced in Russia at that time (PS-90) while using anyway older design for its core.
    So it was absolutely not a priority. These kinds of projects are very interesting and can be potentially very useful , but only when you have already all the basis covered.

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    Post  franco Tue Jan 02, 2024 1:33 pm

    The Russian Helicopters holding company of the Rostec State Corporation reported on December 29, 2023 that it had supplied, under a contract with PSB-Aviating LLC, nine light Ansat helicopters produced by the Kazan Helicopter Plant in the interests of the National Air Ambulance Service (NSSA). The transfer of these vehicles was the final one under the contract for the supply of 37 Ansats to the NSSA.

    Ansat helicopters are today used for medical evacuation throughout the country and, along with Mi-8MTV-1 helicopters, form the basis of the NSSA air fleet.

    One of the main advantages of this machine is the lower cost of maintenance, training and repairs. A light helicopter has a higher readiness for takeoff and is capable of landing on small, unequipped sites, for example, on highways and small spaces in dense urban areas.

    “As part of the execution of the contract for the transfer of 66 helicopters to NSSA, today all 37 Ansat helicopters planned for delivery, as well as 20 Mi-8MTV-1, have been delivered. The customer will receive another 9 “eights” next year. Thanks to the supply of new helicopters, the geography of use of air ambulances is expanding, and the number of lives saved is growing,” said Anton Korolev, Deputy General Director of the Russian Helicopters holding company for sales of civil helicopters.

    Ansats for NSSA are supplied with a “glass cockpit”. During operation, these helicopters demonstrated ease of use and received positive feedback from air ambulance crews. The “glass cockpit” on Ansat helicopters significantly increases the comfort of piloting and reduces the workload on pilots. Flight navigation parameters and indicators of the main helicopter systems are displayed on one screen. The pilot can easily and quickly program or change the route, as well as use current airport approach patterns from the database and view the necessary aeronautical information for the flight area.

    “Ansat helicopters for the National Air Ambulance Service are real workhorses, modern and comfortable. They make it possible to provide emergency medical care in case of serious emergencies, as well as to residents of remote and hard-to-reach settlements. Today there are 40 such machines in the NSSA fleet. With their help, specialists save thousands of lives every year, including children’s,” said NSSA Deputy General Director, Chief Pilot Oleg Korol.

    The Ansat helicopter has the most spacious cabin in its class, which allows it to accommodate a full-fledged medical resuscitation module for the patient and the doctors accompanying the patient. The helicopter's supporting system ensures high maneuverability and controllability. Ansat is dynamic and has a high readiness for takeoff.

    The National Air Ambulance Service was created in 2019 as a single air ambulance operator within the framework of a federal project implemented by the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Industry and Trade and the Rostec State Corporation on the basis of instructions from the President of Russia. The project provides for the creation of a fleet of ambulance helicopters, 130 aircraft bases, a network of mobile fueling complexes, and helipads in the territories of more than 1.5 thousand healthcare institutions throughout the country. In 2023, the coverage of the NSSA increased to 60 regions, and the aircraft fleet amounted to about 60 Mi-8 and Ansat helicopters.

    From the bmpd side, we indicate that the Russian National Air Ambulance Service (NSSA), created on the initiative of Rostec, received the first four Ansat helicopters in sanitary design and with a hydromechanical control system (HMSU) produced by the Kazan Helicopter Plant (KVZ) in February 2019 - machines with registration numbers RA -20024 (serial number 33098), RA-20025 (33099), RA-20026 (33100) and RA-20027 (33101).

    In the future, it was planned to supply NSSA with a lease of another 104 Ansat helicopters, but then the plans were reduced to 74 units. As a result, in August 2021, a contract was concluded by Russian Helicopters with PSB-Aviating LLC for the supply of 37 Ansat helicopters for subsequent operation in the NSSA. The first four Ansat helicopters under this contract were delivered in November 2021 (registration numbers RA-20047 to RA-20050), another 24 - during 2022 (registration numbers RA-20069 and RA-20071 to RA-20093 ), and now the last nine vehicles were delivered in December 2023. One of the Ansat helicopters transferred to NSSA in December 2023 is apparently an aircraft with registration number RA-20100 (serial number 33166), which was demonstrated by Russian Helicopters in NSSA livery at the Dubai Air Show in November 2023. In total, NSSA received 41 Ansat helicopters in this way.

    https://bmpd-livejournal-com.translate.goog/4791889.html?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  lancelot Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:49 pm

    Those Ansat helicopters will still be using Western engines. Which they will have difficulty to maintain.

    The Russian VK-650 engine still hasn't been certified and the Ansat still hasn't been fully import substituted.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:15 am

    They may be able to get parts from Iran or China or Turkey perhaps...

    The sooner they get Russian engines though the better.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Jan 03, 2024 1:48 pm

    Maybe the engines were delivered before 2022.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 am

    The fact that they are actually buying them suggests they are confident that there will be all Russian engines and parts available soon enough that problems from getting them via parallel imports shall we say wont matter.

    It was probably the main thing holding up most purchases because there was no Russian engine in sight... but now they seem to be certain solid projects that have a few advantages over the western equivalents... in areas like cost and performance.
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    Post  Hole Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:11 pm

    Russia should s..t on western IP and just start copying all the stuff needed in the short/medium term.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:25 pm

    Hole wrote:Russia should s..t on western IP and just start copying all the stuff needed in the short/medium term.
    By the way, a good news for the existing fleet of SJ100.

    It does not make sense to have to replace the engines and other parts in already build SJ100, so it is important that they are able to maintain those planes until retirement age.

    https://aviation21.ru/dlya-remonta-i-obsluzhivaniya-dvigatelej-sam146-mozhno-ispolzovat-rossijskie-komponenty/

    Russian components can be used for repair and maintenance of SaM146 engines
    12/29/2023, 13:27

    The import substitution program for key components for maintenance of French-Russian SaM146 aircraft engines, which are installed on SSJ100 aircraft of Russian airlines, has been completed. This was reported by the press service of the United Engine Corporation.

    “The specialists have mastered the modular repair of the electronic control unit, one of the most critical components of the power plant. In addition, Russian fuel filters have been created - the first batch, after the necessary tests, has already been shipped to operators,” the UEC said.

    The development of a modular repair of the electronic control unit was carried out in close cooperation between the companies "ODK-Saturn" and "ODK-Star" with Aeroflot. The procedure for obtaining permission to carry out repair work is currently underway in accordance with federal aviation regulations. It is expected that the first repaired control units will be put into operation in January-February 2024.

    The electronic control unit directly affects the operation of SaM146 engines. The aviation industry is faced with the task of ensuring the airworthiness of the current fleet of Superjet 100 aircraft, regardless of the supply of imported components. In parallel with the development of modular repairs, the UEC-Saturn company certified modifications of the SaM146 aircraft engine with an alternative fuel filter design. In addition, UEC-Saturn is developing a technology for washing import-substituted fuel filters, which will extend their service life.

    Also, as part of the import substitution program, work on repairing the air starter valve was approved, which provides additional opportunities for servicing and maintaining the airworthiness of domestic aircraft. Earlier in December, SSJ100 operators were supplied with a batch of domestic spark plugs for SaM146 engines.


    I do not know, however, what they can do when they will have to replace compressor and turbine blades and engine disks.

    The HP compressor, HP turbine and combustor of the Sam146 were provided by Snecma/ Safran..

    There are currently about 160 ssj100 in service (about half of them in Rossiya Airlines), all of them with SaM146 engines.

    It does not make any sense for Russia to replace more than 300 engines in already built aircrafts.

    I doubt that the corresponding parts for PD-8 can be mutually exchanged, but it would be important to produce at least the blades for the sam146 HP compressor and turbine.

    As far as the discs maybe they plan to replace the entire core with a PD-8 core during the large overhaul at the end of the planned discs life.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:39 am

    SSJ with PD-8.
    Russian Civil Aviation: News #5 - Page 18 F_c2rl10

    edit: Guess I am a bit slow, already posted above Smile

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    Post  GarryB Fri Jan 05, 2024 9:59 am

    It does not make any sense for Russia to replace more than 300 engines in already built aircrafts.

    Of course it makes sense to replace foreign things produced by companies from countries trying to destroy your economy.

    How about making super cruise missiles with French and other foreign engines removed from Russian aircraft... build large cruise missiles with 10 ton payloads that use one engine each and fly them to targets in enemy airspace at night at the end of a missile attack that takes out their air defence.

    Use the super cruise missiles on targets that need a lot of HE or are spread over a wide area and don't burn like fuel and ammo dumps, so a super cruise missile equipped with an incendiary HE mix warhead that will burn and destroy a large area factory... say one making tanks or armoured vehicles where a single boom wont destroy everything, but 20 x 500kg HEI bombs would spread the damage around and be much harder to fix or sort out.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:36 am

    GarryB wrote:
    It does not make any sense for Russia to replace more than 300 engines in already built aircrafts.

    Of course it makes sense to replace foreign things produced by companies from countries trying to destroy your economy.

    How about making super cruise missiles with French and other foreign engines removed from Russian aircraft... build large cruise missiles with 10 ton payloads that use one engine each and fly them to targets in enemy airspace at night at the end of a missile attack that takes out their air defence.

    Use the super cruise missiles on targets that need a lot of HE or are spread over a wide area and don't burn like fuel and ammo dumps, so a super cruise missile equipped with an incendiary HE mix warhead that will burn and destroy a large area factory... say one making tanks or armoured vehicles where a single boom wont destroy everything, but 20 x 500kg HEI bombs would spread the damage around and be much harder to fix or sort out.

    Gary I am not talking about newly built aircrafts, I am talking about the already flying aircrafts. They will keep the existing engines as much as possible, otherwise they will not be able to build new aircraft for a long while.

    We are talking about at least 320 existing engines on wing plus spares on the ground plus engines of aircrafts currently not flying, and all of those engines have been produced across many years.

    It would take a lot of time and resources to replace each of those engines and it would delay construction of new aircrafts.

    Furthermore about 50% of the component's of those engines were made by Russia anyway (and those parts are probably shared with the PD-8.
     
    Basically in the Sam -146 the cold section was made by Saturn and the hot section by Snecma (Safran).

    In addition the nacelle was supplied by safran nacelle.

    Saturn responsibility:
    cold section which includes the fan, the low-pressure turbine and the low-pressure compressor, as well as for the general assembly and testing of the SaM146 engine. Conversely, the area of responsibility for Safran Aircraft Engines which is represented by its subsidiary, Snecma, covers the design and manufacture of the engine core or hot-section - this includes the development of high-pressure compressor, high-pressure turbine, a combustion chamber, an accessory gearbox, electronic engine control and power plant integration. 

    Until those part work, there is no need to replace them. And for this reason it is worth to produce spares for the parts which have to be replaced more often.

    I do not know if a PD-8 hp compressor can be paired to a sam146 hp turbine and viceversa, but both hp compressor and hp turbine discs  can be kept flying until they reach the end of their life (the compressor and turbine discs are life limited components which need to be replaced at the end of their calculated and certified "safe" life (declared safe cyclic life (DSCL)), even if they still appear in good condition).
     at that point, during a major overhaul at the end of the component life they can maybe just replace the entire hot section with the one of the PD-8.

    But there are a lot of other components which are simpler and less costly and that would be worth to produce spares for, in order not to have to ground entire engines.

    Other engine or powerplant parts that were of french responsibilitiy could also include parts which do not need replacement for the entire life of the engine, unless damaged because of external reasons.

    In that case, why worry about replacing them?

    As long as Russia is able to maintain the engines safe and produce spares and/ or repair the "consumable" components, they should be able to keep using the SaM146 in the existing SJ100 fleet.

    Of course newly built aircrafts will have PD-8 engines instead.

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    Post  wilhelm Fri Jan 05, 2024 4:43 pm

    Rodion is correct, and is not suggesting that Russia shouldn't forge ahead with domestic products.
    He is saying there is a need to support current SSJ maintenance (engines etc) until the natural cycle occurs that these are replaced with fully Russian products.

    There have been almost 230 SSJ's built, and these will need to be supported until replacement or modification.
    If you don't do thus, then you're up shit creek without a paddle.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:48 am

    Russia should s..t on western IP and just start copying all the stuff needed in the short/medium term.

    I would save that for a very important situation. If Russia did that then the west could do the same and steal superior Russian military technology and become more of a threat...

    Gary I am not talking about newly built aircrafts, I am talking about the already flying aircrafts. They will keep the existing engines as much as possible, otherwise they will not be able to build new aircraft for a long while.

    Existing aircraft with old foreign engines are a liability moving forward... as new engine production expands they can replace the old foreign engines and use those engines from old aircraft for suicide bombs as I mentioned.

    When all the old engines are destroyed then there wont be any need to support them or produce parts for them so such companies can focus on Russian engine parts and components.

    Remember the French offered to the Russians the chance to make the hot engine parts (titanium) for all French engines to replace the American made parts they use, but Russia had already decided to start making their own engines... and how could you trust the French anyway.

    We are talking about at least 320 existing engines on wing plus spares on the ground plus engines of aircrafts currently not flying, and all of those engines have been produced across many years.

    It would take a lot of time and resources to replace each of those engines and it would delay construction of new aircrafts.

    They don't have to do it straight away all at once. Eliminating foreign engines from the inventory will free up the companies making spare parts and support parts for foreign engines can revert to making spare parts and support equipment for Russian engines instead.

    Furthermore about 50% of the component's of those engines were made by Russia anyway (and those parts are probably shared with the PD-8.

    So they can keep making those then.


    Basically in the Sam -146 the cold section was made by Saturn and the hot section by Snecma (Safran).

    Titanium parts in the hot section they buy from the US, who was ramping up the price and led to their offer for Russia to make the titanium parts in the hot sections of all their engines to replace the US makers. (ie not just on Russian planes but all the engines they make.)

    As I said Russia wants to make and use its own engines.

    Until those part work, there is no need to replace them. And for this reason it is worth to produce spares for the parts which have to be replaced more often.

    And they might be good for ten years of normal operation which gives plenty of time to replace them as they wear out so extra parts don't need to be made in Russia... just replace them gradually and with each engine you remove from an aircraft you get engines with life that can replace engines that don't or run out... as well as actual engine spares.

    at that point, during a major overhaul at the end of the component life they can maybe just replace the entire hot section with the one of the PD-8.

    Which would leave you with half a new engine... why not a whole new engine?

    It would be made in Russia so it would be money well spent.

    In that case, why worry about replacing them?

    It is a foreign engine. I am not saying remove them all now and wait for new Russian engines... but as new Russian engines become available why not use them to replace old engines.

    As long as Russia is able to maintain the engines safe and produce spares and/ or repair the "consumable" components, they should be able to keep using the SaM146 in the existing SJ100 fleet.

    There is no advantage to using French engines on Russian planes, the sooner they are replaced the better.

    He is saying there is a need to support current SSJ maintenance (engines etc) until the natural cycle occurs that these are replaced with fully Russian products.

    He seems to want to replace parts and keep using them forever. That should not be necessary and it certainly should not be a goal.

    There have been almost 230 SSJ's built, and these will need to be supported until replacement or modification.
    If you don't do thus, then you're up shit creek without a paddle.

    They have lots of planes in storage because they lack engine parts or engine life... for example An-124s. It is not the end of the world.

    These problems were created by the airlines themselves... perhaps a few should suffer for their choices of the past.

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