Tell yourself what you want. Its just excuses, accept the reality, Russia fucked up and their policy bit them in the ass
They traded some territory for thousands of Orc corpses... that has been their policy all this time and is working very very well.
It was intentional because they knew the token forces they had defending those areas BECAUSE they could not spare more men and MORE MEN where NEEDED to defend those areas properly (which IDK, I stated over a dozen times), would have gotten killed if they stood.
It was intentional because there was no intention of holding ground... their advantages are mobility and fire power... if you want the to be stuck in towns and cities defending you give away the mobility... and for what?
To put it simply I saw the writing on the WALL OVER A MONTH ago and I am not some General, I am just a boots on the ground guy. So if I saw it, why didn't the Russians realize their bad positions hm? that's the problem here
This was not some bait and switch maneuver, this was pure and simply a retreat using long-range munitions to try and slow the enemy advance which so far as ultimately FAILED.
NOW maybe this won't be totally bad news, MAYBE the russians will FINALLY get their heads in the right place and DO what needs to be done, we will see.
Words of advice dear arm chair experts, you can only learn from your mistakes once you accept you've made them.
You are claiming to be right about something we don't know all the facts about yet.
Please tell me how many extra thousands of soldiers would it take to hold every village and city and empty area of territory like this place seems to be a good mix of.
And if you move your tens or hundreds of thousands of soldiers in here to defend this empty space what is to stop the enemy from attacking somewhere else?
The current plan allows lots of territory to be denied to the enemy unless the enemy concentrates very large forces to take it... very large forces that can be shelled and struck by air power.... but that is stupid you say... well US operations in Afghanistan were stupid up until the air power left and then they were simply a joke.
How many civilians suffered retribution from HATO enemies when the US ran away there?
They saw it. But the politics want a clean war with minimum number of soldiers and without using its airforce.
A bit like Hitler or Stalin interfered in military decision and led tens of thousand of soldiers being killed or captured. The generals are just afraid of talking to the leaders.
At least here they ordered the retreat, Stalin didn't.
It is amazing they are not using any air power at all yet Orc planes and helicopters and drones keep getting shot down and targets deep in Orc territory explode on a regular basis.
You also assume Putin is directly micro managing this conflict... but of course that little made up fact is critical to the demand that Putin step down and be replaced by a more hard line leader... hilarious considering the main flaw in the current plan is the threat the nazis pose to ukrainian civilians left behind... Putin is too soft and his plans are leading to unacceptable heavy casualties that have not happened yet amongst the civilians who are Ukrainians.
Oh what a complicated web we weave to get rid of the man responsible for the price of gas... except that is Americas doing.
You're sitting somewhere in Питер while pro-Russian civilians and Russian soldiers are suffering in the meantime
Yeah, like you could care less about them... removing Putin and the Military general staff would lead to either a massive escalation by someone not as smart or as cautious, or a complete capitulation... neither of which is good for civilians or Russian soldiers.
But keep talking Kievs propaganda points.
That's bullshit. Visegrad24 is classic propaganda garbage.
Yeah, probably meant Moscow airport...
(Deputy Minister of Defense of Ukraine Malyar drew attention to the fact that “at present, a lot of information is being circulated on social networks about settlements allegedly liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which does not correspond to reality)
Hahahahaha.... the bullshit the nazi bots are spewing is even embarrassing the Ukrainian deputy minister of defence... hilarious... and pathetic the number of people here who claim to be pro Russian who are supporting those bots and spreading that bullshit.
Why cant konashenkov be honest about a retreat, instead of using euphemisms?
Because their amazing attack was a brute force meat shield attack to distract Russian artillery and air power while better trained forces pushed forward and forced Russian forces to retreat... most of the meat shield is now performing operation fertilise the roses, while the trained forces are moving forward without objectives because while a large force they are probably not equipped to take towns and cities let alone have the numbers to hold those places because leaving forces in each village is going to dilute their numbers and when the Russians actually counter attack they will get butchered too.
It is a pity that hundreds of thousands of people who trusted us were not informed about this plan and the #Kharkov administration,
Blub blub blub.... in a months time it will be millions of people murdered by nazis because Russian troops left them behind.
Don't remember your posts when the US and HATO did the same to Afghans and Iraqis and Syrians etc etc... they do that to everyone.
And as there must be some straight white males somewhere, let's say 50%, that is 250%!
The straight white males will be the ones that go to pieces and need some tranny to slap some sense in to them... that is not a euphemism...
Blowing a trumpet, of course!
They are Americans... if anyone is getting blown it will be them.... there will be a queue... Zelensky at the front but EU leaders fighting to move to the front of the queue.
Our side ( Serbian) didn't and our results were less than stellar.
Serbias side was in a much worse situation than the Orcs in this conflict... if Serbia had a border with Russia the Kosovo would still have its history and its real people with all their body parts intact.
Twitter full of claims of ukrainian forces storming donetsk airport now.
Twitter is a Orc bot farm.
Some Ukrainian TG channels deny this. It’s a propaganda rumour.
Hahaha... the nazis are denying their own propaganda... don't they like that egg on the face feeling when the truth comes out?
They have enough experience of that by now.
Twatter is winning this war hands down
They are supporting nazis so perhaps it would be more accurate to say they are winning hands tied behind their backs and shot in the back of the head.
Why doesn't Russia do a temporary troop surge of say up to 200,000 to drive the Ukes out of Donestks, take the rest of Zaprozhiye and liberate Kharkov, and simultaneously launch airstrikes to knock out Ukraine's government, intel, and military leadership, hit all bridges and rail junctions across the Dniepr and dielectrify the country?
Because they don't need the logistical exercise to move 200K more bodies in to an empty area of little critical importance... the forces they have in place include holding forces and artillery and air power and over the next few days will grind up the enemy forces just fine.
When they are done there will be an enormous hole in the Ukrainian Army... lots of seats at the table will go empty and it wont be easy to replace them... or explain to their replacements what happened to all the guys that came before them.
Kievs bot army are getting scared because they know the way this is going they are going to be called up and sent to the front line and I suspect they will be prepared to change sides rather than go along with that plan.
As long as the leadership of Kiev are this corrupt and incompetent it makes no sense to try to eliminate them.
Notice the opposite is true... Kiev propaganda is desperate for the incompetent Russian military to fall on their swords and depart the battlespace and for Putin to step down... have we heard any mention that Zelensky should resign from Russia?
Do you enjoy spreading Nazi propaganda ?
Sadly I think he does...
Even though the Globalist Liberal influence is balls-deep up Australias arse, the truth sometimes leaks out. Laughing Kudos to those researchers in Adelaide, but don't expect yer grants to be renewed next year....
Yes, I was surprised they published such results too.... they are Aussies... a very Assange thing to do... hope it does not cost them...
"The Kremlin’s attempt to fight a war with minimal resources and no commitment to disrupt the government and functioning of Western Ukraine and the weapons flowing in from the US and NATO now brings the humiliation of having Ukrainian troops break through Russia’s thinly defended line in the Kharkov region of Eastern Ukraine.
You mean Humiliation like the humiliation of the worlds last super power and all her western civilised European mates in Afghanistan suffered repeated IED defeats over and over despite the enemy not being supported by anyone of note supplying weapons and money, and after 20 years of bullshit retreated in shame leaving those locals that helped them to the dogs...
I can understand humiliation being used in that instance, but a force of 10,000 Taliban attacks a group of maybe 500 US soldiers and the US soldiers withdraw while artillery and air power hammer those Taliban forces... is that a humiliation?
The use of the word humiliation is intentional and is nazi propaganda ... talk to the mothers of the orcs that are now dead and will be dead over the next few days and I am sure they will tell you that their sons death was well worth it to force a small group of Russian soldiers back 50 or 100 kilometres... but with no guarantee they wont just get pushed right back to where they started from any day when western attention is somewhere else.
But the Ukrainian success, no matter how limited or temporary, has doomed Putin’s “limited operation,” which, as I have emphasized, was doomed from the beginning.
DOOMED DOOMED DOOMED... what a
I would say mission going very well... more orcs and nazis in the ground and lots on the move and exposed to being spread on the ground in the near future...
That is the job, that is the plan, that is the process... I understand tantrums that it hasn't happened already and why isn't it all over because Russia... well they can't say it is a super power can they, but it is certainly the superior force... well ask yourself if conflict was so cut and dried and the superior force can win just by will power alone... Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and how many other places the even more powerful and rich US and her collection of bitches don't seem to have everything go their way either... where is the talk of humiliation?
After 20 useless expensive years in Afghanistan the real humiliation for the US is that they stayed so long and achieved so little.
In many ways Putin is a great leader and a man of peace, but he has seriously miscalculated the real situation. His tolerance of insults and provocations has encouraged more, and the provocations are on the verge of initiating a war that will destroy the Western world."
**** the western world... they are the creators of this situation and the cooks that created this broth... but now they have it they are choking on it... and it is too salty... they don't give a shit about all the dead Orcs or all the dead civilians murdered by their nazis.... the price of gas is too high and Putin isn't being overthrown... that is what they are upset about.
The clear solution is on the way... that EU/G7 price cap will stop all sales of gas and oil to the west and then we will see how much they care about peace in Europe... suddenly they will have to talk with Russia and negotiate a real solution that everyone can live with... except it will be bullshit like Russian forces withdraw completely and orc forces retake everything.... nah.. after the west is cut off from Russian energy by their own actions there is no benefit or use to having them being part of any peace negotiations as they are not neutral, but are actors for the enemy.
Let Turkey be part of it, but screw the rest.
PCR is very critical of the Kremlin, most of his points are accurate.
From an anti Kremlin western view he is singing from Hillary Clintons song sheet, he clearly fears for the future of the west, but thinks that is in the hands of Putin when it has always been in the hands of the criminals in power in the west who never get any blame for anything.
I have one last question for everyone here complaining about Russian military tactics, if you were in balakleya and 9000 Banderites was about to enter the village, would you rather be ordered to stay and fight to the death while heavily outnumbered dunno dunno dunno or ordered to retreat to a secure position?
More importantly if they did do that then these same military experts will complain that Russian soldiers lives were being wasted for nothing and that Putin has to go and the Russian HQ structure needs a good purge of personel.
They want to fight WWII again when this is not WWII by any stretch of the meaning.
The Russian govt and military is quite cynical about the propaganda war. They really don't give a f*ck. At all.
But that is the critical think... why care about something that has no bearing on this conflict... the west can win propaganda victory after propaganda victory on social media... most westerners who only get their information from their tv news channels already think Putin is on his last legs and Russia is collapsing and the Russian military has lost more aircraft and tanks and men than the Ukraine has lost...
But what does a social media win actually mean?
It is like people on the internet desperate to one up the other guys so when a western nazi supporter says Himars and M777 are amazing and Russia has nothing like them they come onto forums like this and repeat that bullshit in the hope that someone who knows better can say HIMARS only exists because the M270 was too expensive and too maintenance intensive to operate they way you could operate a light truck... in many ways HIMARS is a COPY of the Uragan and Smerch and Grad... cheap rocket vehicles that could be made in numbers, but they wanted an expensive sniper system, while the Russian systems are shotguns but also sniper systems when needed and are much more cost effective against a range of targets. The M777 is a joke... takes too long to set up and take down and is terribly fragile and high maintenance, and the Russian equivalent, while it currently lacks the range should be compatible with the new long range ammo for Coalition... it is a bit heavier but easier to handle and set up and take down because those things are always priorities with Soviet and Russian towed artillery.
These people now armed with this new information head back to where they started and fire back in a dick measuring competition.
And that is what I suspect these sky are falling losers are after... they want Mindstorm to pop up and go through in detail why what they are doing makes sense and gets the best results at minimum cost in people and will lead to a much bigger impact in the broader picture and real fight between Russia and the western world over their imperialism.
They think they are being good friends of Russia by being critical and not being yes men, but by broadcasting nazi propaganda and demanding Putin step down and military people be fired they are being cowards and nazi supporters...
But that is fine... it often takes a crisis or serious situation to see what people are made of.
Important to know really.
PCR has some points. But his idea of Russia going full USA on Ukraine is not the answer. The initial 3 week war would be impressive. But the next decade of insurgency and chaos would be terrible. The answer is doing an operation like this with at least 2:1 or 3:1.
There is no evidence that the Russian forces took heavy or any damage, but it is clear a lot of orcs are no longer breathing... why change anything at all?
Russia acting like the US acted in Afghanistan or Iraq would result in a 20 year stay and then running away with tail between the legs.
Unwillingness to learn from mistakes leads to the repetition of the same mistakes. Were lessons learned from the first phase of the war? Can you invade a country of 40 million and control an area the size of England with 100,000 troops? Looks like, possibly, no.
Of course.... Putin has a list of mistakes that is so long it explains why Russia is a third world gas station and the US rules the world... but actually it is the west that has been making the mistakes and Putin that methodically counters those mistakes to improve Russias position and condition... can we say the same about western leaders... which western leader has turned around their country and put them on the road to balanced budgets, paid off foreign debt, and a strong economy based on a variety of factors including production and services...
But desperate orcs mass a large group for a suicide push to nowhere and you think the war is over and Putin needs to step down....
So that's fine and all but Paul Craig Roberts is playing in dangerous waters here cause he knows that throwing a couple of positive bones in the end to lessen the incoming fire won't do (old trick that works on the sheep - "balance" - but not on the educated)...
PCR is a western tool who pretends to understand Russia but distinctly has a western view and is more worried about a western collapse than anything taht might happen to Russia... even if that is enslavement to the west as another western resource colony.
Is it possible without . aving any propaganda losses ? Looks like possibly no.
How do you stop an enemy that can fabricate victories from thin air and made up crap... well obviously you use artillery and air power to kill them on the battlefield, and when winter comes you cut your sales to them of energy to freeze them and cut electricity to their internet...
The SMO has nothing to do with crippling western economies.
The conflict was created by the west to try to cripple the Russian economy and eliminate Putin as a threat... and Putin has turned it back on them.
Russia will not let the chance go to execute an pincer movement to trap these troops and render them inert.
They came out into the open from their defensive positions. If Russia closes that pocket they will be in the Bear's cage with nowhere to go.
Meanwhile Grad's, Hurricanes, and Tos-1A already started hammering their formations.
Another possibility is if they drop pamphlets and get them to surrender instead of having to kill them all... the psychological impact would be much greater...
I wish the mods would remove half the propaganda pictures in this thread.
What's going on is significant.
Why hide the rants?
In a couple of weeks time this thread might be an interesting read...
Are you suggesting that the NATzO occupation force will rough up the civilians who will support Russia? If this tactic works, then Russia can simply do the same treatment to Pro-Ukro Nazis in liberated areas. I have witnessed through experiments that with enough pain and torture a captive will eventually fold to your will.
No. What the Russians can then say is that we don't do that sort of thing... which side do you see a better future for yourselves with... those animals or us...
It is not speculation, because it has already happened in other towns.
It is speculation in this region because the Orc forces are probably not in a good condition to burn local bridges so to speak... they need friends and help if they want to succeed, and if they start murdering people then they will likely have to fight the locals as well as the Russians...
Well, this is something that people want to believe in.
If it's true, we will see.
Still, shit has happened in military conflicts hundreds of times. Hysteria won't help here.
It fits the facts better than the Russian military suddenly became incompetent, yet even that is bullshit... the enemy masses a force and attacks you is not incompetence... it is war.
Does Russia have enough troops to counterattack? Why isnt the Ru AF used to strike deep into Ukrainian territory?
Open terrain... why waste troops... artillery and drones and helicopters and aircraft... a 500kg cluster bomb will obliterate a trench better than artillery, and out in the open away from civilian areas why not use some bigger bombs... 1.5 ton weapons... but clusters of smaller bombs spread the love over a much wider area and are more effective.
Then why did they have to retreat from izyum instead of reinforcing it with mobile reserves?
What you think you know was probably made up by some bot in the UK...
Ahh **** yeah.... everyone know what that is under the wing?
OFZAB-500 HE Fragmentation Incendiary bomb... OUCH...
Under the belly is the FAB-500M62 HE Frag bomb...
I wonder if those were actually adopted in any significant number
Likely a very specialist weapon... Russia does not murder just for Shock and Awe... but a Bio weapons complex that is suspected of "leaking" would be a target for these things...
You need an il-76 to launch it. And it is just a propaganda weapon.
You say that based on the western equivalent that is released out the back of a C-130.
But Russia has Tu-160 bombers whose 11m long bomb bays ( it has two) can have their rotary launchers for missiles removed... I would say they could carry one bomb in each weapon bay and operate at 12km altitude at supersonic speed... not an easy target at all.
But they aren't using it.
Those weapons are for point targets... a building or a bridge... when the target is troops in open fields you drop clusters of dumb bombs in a pattern so the fragments and shock waves kill everyone no matter how spread out they are.
KAB-500s were mass produced from 1980 onwards. Kh-38 is supposed to be in mass production since 2012
They can use them to hit choke points like bridges to make the retreating enemy forces bunch up to make good targets for dumb bombs, and then send in helicopters and attack aircraft to strafe and rocket and bomb those out of conventional artillery range, while conventional artillery destroys those in range.
Cluster bombs would be a better bet with fragmentation submunitions... overlapping drop patterns to make sure there are no big gaps.
He's been asking the same question for, oh I don't know 6 months now, and he will never read your reply, he's only going to ask again.
He does seem to be stuck on transmit and ignoring the receive button.
There is no real answer yet even to Western or Western trained forces on Mobile launchers and to lesser extent self propelled gun.
To be fair despite western support and supposedly an endless supply of drones and MANPADS the Orcs really don't have an answer to Russian artillery or air power either.
Mobility makes things harder... the mobility of Russian AD systems is not an accident either.
Kab-500L has been produced since 1980. Kab-500S has been mass produced since 2009.
Laser and TV guided bombs are for hitting point hard targets... not troops spread out in a field...
Russian helicopters barely use ATGMs, and if they do, its never against ukrainian SPGs. 95% of what russian helicopters do is lob a few S-8s.
More than half the videos I have seen of Russian helicopters show ATGMs hits against individual vehicles... many of which looked like 2S1 and 2S3 type vehicles.
A lot of targets will be groups of troops in the open so rockets are the sensible choice of weapon... lofted attacks give a good spread of rockets and a better distribution of fragments and explosive force.
I agree about himars, but Pzh-2000s, krabs and caesars should be realy easy to destroy with russian helicopters and aircraft, since they're close to the frontline and have large thermal signatures.
Are they close to the frontline? For all we know the photos and video might be from Poland and they are part of a disinformation campaign to pretend they are effective.
But then we have already heard the german gun breaks down when you use it because it is not intended to fire 100 shells a day... while Russian guns fire 10 times more than this and outnumber these guns 100 to one.
Their precious NATO weapons are a fraction of their total. Vast majority of what they use is Soviet issue.
The reports from the Orcs themselves don't sound particularly excited about their western weapons, and the friendly forces that are given captured bundles of western weapons don't seem to like them that much either.
They're hardly enthusiastic about documenting their own losses and all the more so for the weapons their patrons in Europe handed down to them. That's a strict no-no.
They were told to stop using certain drones because their (mis)use and excessive losses was bringing the brand into disrepute...
Would it be any different with weapons that HATO sees as the cornerstone of their defence?
NLAW promised so much, as did Stinger and Javelin... they were going to destroy Russian armour and air power and therefore eliminate their mobility advantages.
Well large here is relative. Signature from engine is relatively easy to conceal, leaving firing as the main contributor to signature.
More important they aren't idiots... they will dress up boxes and vehicles to look like targets too... this is not like shooting stuff in a test range.
A common ploy to hide the price increases is to downsize
the product and sell it for a similar price.
Yes... it used to come in bigger packets is normal now... except for fizzy drinks... they got ridiculously big very quick.
You are not able to admit a defeat even if the Ukronazis would be knocking on your door!
They are no where near any door of importance to anything.
And if anything they are knocking to get you to open the door so they can get in out of the hail...