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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23

    franco
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    Post  franco Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:54 am

    ALAMO wrote:A new troops from Chechenya.
    I have counted, it is 15 detachments of 180 people each.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23 - Page 37 Zrzut_30

    It is Achmat-North regiment, and Achmat-West, East and South battalions.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23 - Page 37 Zrzut_31

    This time, they have heavy gear making them mechanized units.
    All are reorganized to new motorized rifle status and incorporate veterans of the Mariopol campaign.
    All battle hardened, if someone watched the Mariopol siege then some faces will be recognizable.

    These are part of the Rosgvardia and 46th brigade. The North regiment and South battalion already existed as Special Motorized units and the total staff was rumored to be around 1500. So basically 2 more battalions, heavier armed and double the manpower. In addition a regular Army Motor Rifle regiment (70th) was created with 2-2,500 men for the 42nd Division.

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    limb


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    Post  limb Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:03 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    limb wrote:

    I agree about himars, but Pzh-2000s, krabs and caesars should be realy easy to destroy with russian helicopters and aircraft, since they're close to the frontline and have large thermal signatures.
    The ka-52s, inokhodets's, forpost's and mi-28s radar or FLIR should be able to detect a pzh2000 without problem from at least 15km away. Destroying them should be trivial. just fire some uragan or smerch cluster munition rockets or destroy them with vikhrs or kab-20. So russian helicopters should casually make incursions 10-15km behind enemy lines.

    Well large here is relative.  Signature from engine is relatively easy to conceal, leaving firing as the main contributor to signature.  You may likely to only get it on any FLIR or even space when they are firing  and using aviation you are looking a large commitment of helicopters or aircrafts, how large well roughly how long the lines would need to be covered. so say your lines are 150 km long, your helicopter can shoot at target at 15 km, so roughly you would need 10 helos, and maybe more as the helicopter are moving thus may not always be in the position when the battery comes out of hiding.

    The thing is the essence of time as Ukraine do practice scout and shoot where they will relocate ASAP after firing.  It brings me to question on how fast Russians can respond to information. If it's too slow due to some institutional problem they will more likely fail to hit the battery on time as when the order are finally given, the battery already move.
    They can send like 80 forpost and orlan drones per 150km to follow the SPGs around and hit them when they're stationary, like what the russians did with those grads in march. or at their base. even without heat signature, russian ground tracking radar on the ka-52 and Mi-28 is very good and should detect large metal objects like spgs with ease from at least 20km away(the BRM-1's radar from the early 1970s had a range of 20km I believe).
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:07 am

    I don't know if this had already been posted, but it is interesting

    Kadyrov: the truth must be told, even if unpleasant: mistakes were made in Kharkov.  If no steps are taken to remedy this, I will contact the leadership of the country to explain the situation on the ground and you will see concrete results.

    https://t.me/dimsmirnov175/37454

    Google translated text


    Kadyrov: In recent days, we have received information, but there is no concrete explanation.  Well today, the Ministry of Defense clarified the information, which is why they left the cities of Izyum, Kupyansk, Balakleya.  This was forced to save human lives.  But that doesn't mean anything.  I, Ramzan Kadyrov, officially declare to you that all these cities will be returned back.  Our people are already there, the guys are specially equipped for this work, they are ready to leave for another 10 thousand fighters, and in the near future we will reach Odessa.  And you will see concrete results.
    I am not a strategist like the Department of Defense, but mistakes were made, I think they will draw conclusions.  When you tell the truth, even to your face, I always love to tell the truth.  My people and I have talked to all the commanders on the fronts, we have information from the field.  And if changes are not made today or tomorrow in the strategy of conducting a special military operation, I will have to contact the leadership of the Ministry of Defense, the leadership of the country in order to explain to them the situation that is really happening there on earth.  The situation is very interesting, even I would say an awesome situation.  The fact that they left there, gave away several cities and villages, this also has its plus.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:09 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:I would personally say food has went up much further than in UK than this chart suggests. (Currently living in UK)


    I agree but why post in this thread?

    Hope you are stocking up with dried and tinned foods etc. This winter and next year are going to be painful.
    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:12 am

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:I don't know if this had already been posted, but it is interesting

    Kadyrov: the truth must be told, even if unpleasant: mistakes were made in Kharkov.  If no steps are taken to remedy this, I will contact the leadership of the country to explain the situation on the ground and you will see concrete results.

    https://t.me/dimsmirnov175/37454

    Unlike us, Kadyrov is inside the bubble and has access to real information and the ear of the leadership.

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    Post  JohninMK Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:20 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:
    limb wrote:
    Kh-59s and cruise missiles aren't good at destroying western SPGs and MLRS.

    There is no real answer yet even to Western or Western trained forces on Mobile launchers and to lesser extent self propelled gun.

    The interesting point is that this applies to both sides. He who finds a repeatable solution, under real war (for example maxed out EW, little INTEL) conditions gains a real advantage and the US is currently giving Russia all the base level practice. Once they start to find answers, we will not hear about it Smile

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:32 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:I would personally say food has went up much further than in UK than this chart suggests. (Currently living in UK)

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23 - Page 37 Fb_img33

    The official CPI numbers are rigged BS. From my experience with Kanadian food prices, the have been going up 6-10%
    annually for a long time. Before covid and before the Ukria war. A common ploy to hide the price increases is to downsize
    the product and sell it for a similar price.

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    Post  SolidarityWithRussia Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:35 am

    I was quite shocked to hear about the Ukrainian breakthrough from History Legends and saw it on the map, but after reading some recent pages in this thread it looks like the suspiciously successful breakthrough of the Ukrainian forces was just a Russian trap.

    Backman wrote:https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.2ae402df-631d0e24-b263427a-74722d776562/https/m.vz.ru/news/2022/9/10/1176889.html
    The Russian Defense Ministry carried out a whole range of measures to mislead the Armed Forces of Ukraine, created the illusion that we have "weak defense" and allegedly there is no information about the preparation of an offensive in the areas of Balakleya and Izyum, now the main task is to defeat the group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, military expert Konstantin Sivkov told VZGLYAD newspaper. On Saturday, the Defense Ministry announced the regrouping of troops in the areas of Balakleya and Izyum.

    "Our military knew that an offensive was being prepared, so now the troops are regrouping to destroy the group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), which came to the areas of Balakleya and Izyum. It should be borne in mind that there are no fortified areas there, so the task of destroying the most combat-ready Ukrainian units will be solved quite successfully. This will take a few more days, " said Konstantin Sivkov, Doctor of Military Sciences.

    Sivkov emphasizes that the diversionary maneuvers were carried out in order to "pull the AFU strike group out of the fortified areas." "If this group would have remained in Slavyansk or Kramatorsk, how many would have had to" pick out " it? And now it's in the palm of your hand.

    ^ i don't see how it could be anything else. There was offensives all along the line that were beat back with ease. But all of a sudden , Ukraine is just world beaters in this one area ?

    The interesting part is the claim that Ukraine has conquered parts that have no siginificant fortifications, where they will be left vulnerable for a Russian counteroffensive. So if Sivkov is right, then we should see in a few days, whether Russia was just bluffing or not. Let's just hope everything goes as planned for them and not the other way round. pale
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:54 am

    SolidarityWithRussia wrote:
    The interesting part is the claim that Ukraine has conquered parts that have no siginificant fortifications, where they will be left vulnerable for a Russian counteroffensive. So if Sivkov is right, then we should see in a few days, whether Russia was just bluffing or not. Let's just hope everything goes as planned for them and not the other way round. pale
    The Ukrainians are losing their irreplaceable mobile reserves for the low, low price of Izyum, a bridgehead that can't be used until the elensky line has been taken anyway. Honestly even if the counter-attack doesn't materialize on Kharkov direction itself the Russians already won this exchange. Wink

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    Post  Hole Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:02 am

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/09/clarity-in-small-dozes.html

    Nice comment to the article:
    My world: I would not worry only a few days ago it was reporting on how Ukraine was driving a massive offensive into Kherson - nobody speaks of the more than 10,000 dead NATO troops or the 1,000s of wounded from Kherson offensive and the fact Russia is just about back at the original front lines there.
    Same as the Russian gains across the entire front lines with 1,000's of Ukrainians dead.
    This weekends chip wrapper is all about how Ukraine is destroying the Russians in Kharkiv and come Friday nobody will be mentioning the 10,000 to 20,000 dead NATO in Kharkiv region or the 10's of thousands of wounded from the Kharkiv offensive.
    It has already been reported and accepted Russia fell back with very few around 200 lost - that is compared to the NATO loses at more than 2,000 dead.
    lets see where we are on Friday and I suggest the offensive ill be over and the NATO forces wiped out.
    But we both know the reason for this offensive - NATO is meeting and they want more money more weapons for Russia to destroy in Ukraine and so Germany is the first to come out and say we will keep financing and supplying weapons for our NATO troops in Ukraine.
    Just to clear a point up here I will no longer describe them as Ukrainian - because all of these troops have spent 6 months in NATO countries being trained by NATO up to NATO standards and supplied with NATO equipment - these soldiers are for all intense and purpose NATO troops.

    https://sonar21.com/understanding-planning-orders-and-troop-movements-in-ukraine/

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    Post  Azi Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:03 am

    Backman wrote:
    walle83 wrote:Ukrainian military on the outskirts of Izyum

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23 - Page 37 22487410

    Do you enjoy spreading Nazi propaganda ?
    Yes it's only Nazi propaganda! No Ukrainians entered Izyum...Vladimir Vladimirovic personally is leading a 3 million strong army directly in Izyum for a big counterattack against Ukrainians.

    What kind of shit you are smoking to be so blinded, completely removed from reality? You are not able to admit a defeat even if the Ukronazis would be knocking on your door!

    Edit: It's true that some special forces are still in Izyum to slow down the advance of Ukrainians, but the city and area will be abandoned.


    Last edited by Azi on Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Hole Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:11 am

    lyle6 wrote:
    SolidarityWithRussia wrote:
    The interesting part is the claim that Ukraine has conquered parts that have no siginificant fortifications, where they will be left vulnerable for a Russian counteroffensive. So if Sivkov is right, then we should see in a few days, whether Russia was just bluffing or not. Let's just hope everything goes as planned for them and not the other way round. pale
    The Ukrainians are losing their irreplaceable mobile reserves for the low, low price of Izyum, a bridgehead that can't be used until the elensky line has been taken anyway. Honestly even if the counter-attack doesn't materialize on Kharkov direction itself the Russians already won this exchange. Wink
    Closing in on 3.000 KIA and 5.000+ WIA.

    As the "3 days to take Kiev" shit Izyum was declared the all important bridgehead by western pundits. It had some importance in the first part of the SMO but that diminished over time.

    Breaking the last fortified lines in the Donbass is the most important thing now. Most Allied troops are located there. Behind this lines are open space and only few enemy troops. A lot of room to manoeuvre.

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    Post  Azi Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:17 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:
    Yeah, thats a map I could believe in.  Rybar maps are just showing a large contested area centered around Izyum, no details, suggesting journalistic laziness or even outright pessimism.  Clearly unlikely as much of the area concerned is forested, and I can't believe that the Ukro intention of fast advance is going to slowly pick its way through forests on foot....  Laughing
    The Rybar maps shows the territory left by Russia, not what necessarily has already been conquered by the Ukrainians. Enemy sabotage groups and PR squads have already penetrated far into Russian-controlled territory.

    Big_Gazza wrote: blocked in the west by the Oskol.  Russians holding east Kupyansk. Russians pulling back to defend Izyum and consolidate/concentrate defensive fire. Defending Horokhovatka to deny the Ukrops a river crossing.
    Izyum is lost! Even the MoD stated that Izyum will be vacated.

    Big_Gazza wrote: a big bag in the making and wll challenge the Ukrpi supply & logistics.  It won't easy at all to supply there advance forces contesting Russian defense lines in an environment where they have no choice but to cede total control of the air.  Once the advances slow and the Ukopis pile up against Russian defense lines then the CAS will be able to find targets and lay down the cleaning flames accordingly Twisted Evil
    Yes this "big bag" is called Ukraine. Russians froces contiued to withdraw from parts north of kharkov city...they vacate Udy, Kozacha Lopan etc. I wrote it before...the WHOLE of Kharkov area will be leaved, only everything east of the Oskol river will stay under russian controll.

    Big_Gazza wrote:Edit: I won't however ignore a possibility that Russia may even choose to abandon izyum as well, though I think its unlikely.  There has been many surprises thus far, and things haven't gone the way many of us expected.  Clearly the Russian general staff are playing a long game here, and we simply don't know their gameplan...
    You think it's unlikely? It already happend before you wrote your post.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:18 am

    Tell yourself what you want. Its just excuses, accept the reality, Russia fucked up and their policy bit them in the ass

    They traded some territory for thousands of Orc corpses... that has been their policy all this time and is working very very well.

    It was intentional because they knew the token forces they had defending those areas BECAUSE they could not spare more men and MORE MEN where NEEDED to defend those areas properly (which IDK, I stated over a dozen times), would have gotten killed if they stood.

    It was intentional because there was no intention of holding ground... their advantages are mobility and fire power... if you want the to be stuck in towns and cities defending you give away the mobility... and for what?

    To put it simply I saw the writing on the WALL OVER A MONTH ago and I am not some General, I am just a boots on the ground guy. So if I saw it, why didn't the Russians realize their bad positions hm? that's the problem here

    This was not some bait and switch maneuver, this was pure and simply a retreat using long-range munitions to try and slow the enemy advance which so far as ultimately FAILED.

    NOW maybe this won't be totally bad news, MAYBE the russians will FINALLY get their heads in the right place and DO what needs to be done, we will see.

    Words of advice dear arm chair experts, you can only learn from your mistakes once you accept you've made them.

    You are claiming to be right about something we don't know all the facts about yet.

    Please tell me how many extra thousands of soldiers would it take to hold every village and city and empty area of territory like this place seems to be a good mix of.

    And if you move your tens or hundreds of thousands of soldiers in here to defend this empty space what is to stop the enemy from attacking somewhere else?

    The current plan allows lots of territory to be denied to the enemy unless the enemy concentrates very large forces to take it... very large forces that can be shelled and struck by air power.... but that is stupid you say... well US operations in Afghanistan were stupid up until the air power left and then they were simply a joke.

    How many civilians suffered retribution from HATO enemies when the US ran away there?


    They saw it. But the politics want a clean war with minimum number of soldiers and without using its airforce.

    A bit like Hitler or Stalin interfered in military decision and led tens of thousand of soldiers being killed or captured. The generals are just afraid of talking to the leaders.

    At least here they ordered the retreat, Stalin didn't.

    It is amazing they are not using any air power at all yet Orc planes and helicopters and drones keep getting shot down and targets deep in Orc territory explode on a regular basis.

    You also assume Putin is directly micro managing this conflict... but of course that little made up fact is critical to the demand that Putin step down and be replaced by a more hard line leader... hilarious considering the main flaw in the current plan is the threat the nazis pose to ukrainian civilians left behind... Putin is too soft and his plans are leading to unacceptable heavy casualties that have not happened yet amongst the civilians who are Ukrainians.

    Oh what a complicated web we weave to get rid of the man responsible for the price of gas... except that is Americas doing.

    You're sitting somewhere in Питер while pro-Russian civilians and Russian soldiers are suffering in the meantime

    Yeah, like you could care less about them... removing Putin and the Military general staff would lead to either a massive escalation by someone not as smart or as cautious, or a complete capitulation... neither of which is good for civilians or Russian soldiers.

    But keep talking Kievs propaganda points.

    That's bullshit. Visegrad24 is classic propaganda garbage.

    Yeah, probably meant Moscow airport...

    (Deputy Minister of Defense of Ukraine Malyar drew attention to the fact that “at present, a lot of information is being circulated on social networks about settlements allegedly liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which does not correspond to reality)

    Hahahahaha.... the bullshit the nazi bots are spewing is even embarrassing the Ukrainian deputy minister of defence... hilarious... and pathetic the number of people here who claim to be pro Russian who are supporting those bots and spreading that bullshit.

    Why cant konashenkov be honest about a retreat, instead of using euphemisms?

    Because their amazing attack was a brute force meat shield attack to distract Russian artillery and air power while better trained forces pushed forward and forced Russian forces to retreat... most of the meat shield is now performing operation fertilise the roses, while the trained forces are moving forward without objectives because while a large force they are probably not equipped to take towns and cities let alone have the numbers to hold those places because leaving forces in each village is going to dilute their numbers and when the Russians actually counter attack they will get butchered too.

    It is a pity that hundreds of thousands of people who trusted us were not informed about this plan and the #Kharkov administration,

    Blub blub blub.... in a months time it will be millions of people murdered by nazis because Russian troops left them behind.

    Don't remember your posts when the US and HATO did the same to Afghans and Iraqis and Syrians etc etc... they do that to everyone.

    And as there must be some straight white males somewhere, let's say 50%, that is 250%!

    The straight white males will be the ones that go to pieces and need some tranny to slap some sense in to them... that is not a euphemism... Embarassed

    Blowing a trumpet, of course!

    They are Americans... if anyone is getting blown it will be them.... there will be a queue... Zelensky at the front but EU leaders fighting to move to the front of the queue.

    Our side ( Serbian) didn't and our results were less than stellar.

    Serbias side was in a much worse situation than the Orcs in this conflict... if Serbia had a border with Russia the Kosovo would still have its history and its real people with all their body parts intact.

    Twitter full of claims of ukrainian forces storming donetsk airport now.

    Twitter is a Orc bot farm.

    Some Ukrainian TG channels deny this. It’s a propaganda rumour.

    Hahaha... the nazis are denying their own propaganda... don't they like that egg on the face feeling when the truth comes out?

    They have enough experience of that by now.

    Twatter is winning this war hands down

    They are supporting nazis so perhaps it would be more accurate to say they are winning hands tied behind their backs and shot in the back of the head.

    Why doesn't Russia do a temporary troop surge of say up to 200,000 to drive the Ukes out of Donestks, take the rest of Zaprozhiye and liberate Kharkov, and simultaneously launch airstrikes to knock out Ukraine's government, intel, and military leadership, hit all bridges and rail junctions across the Dniepr and dielectrify the country?

    Because they don't need the logistical exercise to move 200K more bodies in to an empty area of little critical importance... the forces they have in place include holding forces and artillery and air power and over the next few days will grind up the enemy forces just fine.

    When they are done there will be an enormous hole in the Ukrainian Army... lots of seats at the table will go empty and it wont be easy to replace them... or explain to their replacements what happened to all the guys that came before them.

    Kievs bot army are getting scared because they know the way this is going they are going to be called up and sent to the front line and I suspect they will be prepared to change sides rather than go along with that plan.

    As long as the leadership of Kiev are this corrupt and incompetent it makes no sense to try to eliminate them.

    Notice the opposite is true... Kiev propaganda is desperate for the incompetent Russian military to fall on their swords and depart the battlespace and for Putin to step down... have we heard any mention that Zelensky should resign from Russia?

    Do you enjoy spreading Nazi propaganda ?

    Sadly I think he does...

    Even though the Globalist Liberal influence is balls-deep up Australias arse, the truth sometimes leaks out. Laughing Kudos to those researchers in Adelaide, but don't expect yer grants to be renewed next year....

    Yes, I was surprised they published such results too.... they are Aussies... a very Assange thing to do... hope it does not cost them...

    "The Kremlin’s attempt to fight a war with minimal resources and no commitment to disrupt the government and functioning of Western Ukraine and the weapons flowing in from the US and NATO now brings the humiliation of having Ukrainian troops break through Russia’s thinly defended line in the Kharkov region of Eastern Ukraine.

    You mean Humiliation like the humiliation of the worlds last super power and all her western civilised European mates in Afghanistan suffered repeated IED defeats over and over despite the enemy not being supported by anyone of note supplying weapons and money, and after 20 years of bullshit retreated in shame leaving those locals that helped them to the dogs...

    I can understand humiliation being used in that instance, but a force of 10,000 Taliban attacks a group of maybe 500 US soldiers and the US soldiers withdraw while artillery and air power hammer those Taliban forces... is that a humiliation?

    The use of the word humiliation is intentional and is nazi propaganda ... talk to the mothers of the orcs that are now dead and will be dead over the next few days and I am sure they will tell you that their sons death was well worth it to force a small group of Russian soldiers back 50 or 100 kilometres... but with no guarantee they wont just get pushed right back to where they started from any day when western attention is somewhere else.

    But the Ukrainian success, no matter how limited or temporary, has doomed Putin’s “limited operation,” which, as I have emphasized, was doomed from the beginning.

    DOOMED DOOMED DOOMED... what a censored .

    I would say mission going very well... more orcs and nazis in the ground and lots on the move and exposed to being spread on the ground in the near future...

    That is the job, that is the plan, that is the process... I understand tantrums that it hasn't happened already and why isn't it all over because Russia... well they can't say it is a super power can they, but it is certainly the superior force... well ask yourself if conflict was so cut and dried and the superior force can win just by will power alone... Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and how many other places the even more powerful and rich US and her collection of bitches don't seem to have everything go their way either... where is the talk of humiliation?

    After 20 useless expensive years in Afghanistan the real humiliation for the US is that they stayed so long and achieved so little.

    In many ways Putin is a great leader and a man of peace, but he has seriously miscalculated the real situation. His tolerance of insults and provocations has encouraged more, and the provocations are on the verge of initiating a war that will destroy the Western world."

    **** the western world... they are the creators of this situation and the cooks that created this broth... but now they have it they are choking on it... and it is too salty... they don't give a shit about all the dead Orcs or all the dead civilians murdered by their nazis.... the price of gas is too high and Putin isn't being overthrown... that is what they are upset about.

    The clear solution is on the way... that EU/G7 price cap will stop all sales of gas and oil to the west and then we will see how much they care about peace in Europe... suddenly they will have to talk with Russia and negotiate a real solution that everyone can live with... except it will be bullshit like Russian forces withdraw completely and orc forces retake everything.... nah.. after the west is cut off from Russian energy by their own actions there is no benefit or use to having them being part of any peace negotiations as they are not neutral, but are actors for the enemy.

    Let Turkey be part of it, but screw the rest.

    PCR is very critical of the Kremlin, most of his points are accurate.

    From an anti Kremlin western view he is singing from Hillary Clintons song sheet, he clearly fears for the future of the west, but thinks that is in the hands of Putin when it has always been in the hands of the criminals in power in the west who never get any blame for anything.

    I have one last question for everyone here complaining about Russian military tactics, if you were in balakleya and 9000 Banderites was about to enter the village, would you rather be ordered to stay and fight to the death while heavily outnumbered dunno dunno dunno or ordered to retreat to a secure position?

    More importantly if they did do that then these same military experts will complain that Russian soldiers lives were being wasted for nothing and that Putin has to go and the Russian HQ structure needs a good purge of personel.

    They want to fight WWII again when this is not WWII by any stretch of the meaning.

    The Russian govt and military is quite cynical about the propaganda war. They really don't give a f*ck. At all.

    But that is the critical think... why care about something that has no bearing on this conflict... the west can win propaganda victory after propaganda victory on social media... most westerners who only get their information from their tv news channels already think Putin is on his last legs and Russia is collapsing and the Russian military has lost more aircraft and tanks and men than the Ukraine has lost...

    But what does a social media win actually mean?

    It is like people on the internet desperate to one up the other guys so when a western nazi supporter says Himars and M777 are amazing and Russia has nothing like them they come onto forums like this and repeat that bullshit in the hope that someone who knows better can say HIMARS only exists because the M270 was too expensive and too maintenance intensive to operate they way you could operate a light truck... in many ways HIMARS is a COPY of the Uragan and Smerch and Grad... cheap rocket vehicles that could be made in numbers, but they wanted an expensive sniper system, while the Russian systems are shotguns but also sniper systems when needed and are much more cost effective against a range of targets. The M777 is a joke... takes too long to set up and take down and is terribly fragile and high maintenance, and the Russian equivalent, while it currently lacks the range should be compatible with the new long range ammo for Coalition... it is a bit heavier but easier to handle and set up and take down because those things are always priorities with Soviet and Russian towed artillery.

    These people now armed with this new information head back to where they started and fire back in a dick measuring competition.

    And that is what I suspect these sky are falling losers are after... they want Mindstorm to pop up and go through in detail why what they are doing makes sense and gets the best results at minimum cost in people and will lead to a much bigger impact in the broader picture and real fight between Russia and the western world over their imperialism.

    They think they are being good friends of Russia by being critical and not being yes men, but by broadcasting nazi propaganda and demanding Putin step down and military people be fired they are being cowards and nazi supporters...

    But that is fine... it often takes a crisis or serious situation to see what people are made of.

    Important to know really.

    PCR has some points. But his idea of Russia going full USA on Ukraine is not the answer. The initial 3 week war would be impressive. But the next decade of insurgency and chaos would be terrible. The answer is doing an operation like this with at least 2:1 or 3:1.

    There is no evidence that the Russian forces took heavy or any damage, but it is clear a lot of orcs are no longer breathing... why change anything at all?

    Russia acting like the US acted in Afghanistan or Iraq would result in a 20 year stay and then running away with tail between the legs.


    Unwillingness to learn from mistakes leads to the repetition of the same mistakes. Were lessons learned from the first phase of the war? Can you invade a country of 40 million and control an area the size of England with 100,000 troops? Looks like, possibly, no.

    Of course.... Putin has a list of mistakes that is so long it explains why Russia is a third world gas station and the US rules the world... but actually it is the west that has been making the mistakes and Putin that methodically counters those mistakes to improve Russias position and condition... can we say the same about western leaders... which western leader has turned around their country and put them on the road to balanced budgets, paid off foreign debt, and a strong economy based on a variety of factors including production and services...

    But desperate orcs mass a large group for a suicide push to nowhere and you think the war is over and Putin needs to step down....

    So that's fine and all but Paul Craig Roberts is playing in dangerous waters here cause he knows that throwing a couple of positive bones in the end to lessen the incoming fire won't do (old trick that works on the sheep - "balance" - but not on the educated)...

    PCR is a western tool who pretends to understand Russia but distinctly has a western view and is more worried about a western collapse than anything taht might happen to Russia... even if that is enslavement to the west as another western resource colony.

    Is it possible without . aving any propaganda losses ? Looks like possibly no.

    How do you stop an enemy that can fabricate victories from thin air and made up crap... well obviously you use artillery and air power to kill them on the battlefield, and when winter comes you cut your sales to them of energy to freeze them and cut electricity to their internet...


    The SMO has nothing to do with crippling western economies.

    The conflict was created by the west to try to cripple the Russian economy and eliminate Putin as a threat... and Putin has turned it back on them.

    Russia will not let the chance go to execute an pincer movement to trap these troops and render them inert.
    They came out into the open from their defensive positions. If Russia closes that pocket they will be in the Bear's cage with nowhere to go.
    Meanwhile Grad's, Hurricanes, and Tos-1A already started hammering their formations.

    Another possibility is if they drop pamphlets and get them to surrender instead of having to kill them all... the psychological impact would be much greater...

    I wish the mods would remove half the propaganda pictures in this thread.

    What's going on is significant.

    Why hide the rants?

    In a couple of weeks time this thread might be an interesting read...

    Are you suggesting that the NATzO occupation force will rough up the civilians who will support Russia? If this tactic works, then Russia can simply do the same treatment to Pro-Ukro Nazis in liberated areas. I have witnessed through experiments that with enough pain and torture a captive will eventually fold to your will.

    No. What the Russians can then say is that we don't do that sort of thing... which side do you see a better future for yourselves with... those animals or us...

    It is not speculation, because it has already happened in other towns.

    It is speculation in this region because the Orc forces are probably not in a good condition to burn local bridges so to speak... they need friends and help if they want to succeed, and if they start murdering people then they will likely have to fight the locals as well as the Russians...

    Well, this is something that people want to believe in.
    If it's true, we will see.
    Still, shit has happened in military conflicts hundreds of times. Hysteria won't help here.

    It fits the facts better than the Russian military suddenly became incompetent, yet even that is bullshit... the enemy masses a force and attacks you is not incompetence... it is war.

    Does Russia have enough troops to counterattack? Why isnt the Ru AF used to strike deep into Ukrainian territory?

    Open terrain... why waste troops... artillery and drones and helicopters and aircraft... a 500kg cluster bomb will obliterate a trench better than artillery, and out in the open away from civilian areas why not use some bigger bombs... 1.5 ton weapons... but clusters of smaller bombs spread the love over a much wider area and are more effective.

    Then why did they have to retreat from izyum instead of reinforcing it with mobile reserves?

    What you think you know was probably made up by some bot in the UK...

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23 - Page 37 Photo_26

    Ahh **** yeah.... everyone know what that is under the wing?

    OFZAB-500 HE Fragmentation Incendiary bomb...  OUCH...

    Under the belly is the FAB-500M62 HE Frag bomb...

    I wonder if those were actually adopted in any significant number

    Likely a very specialist weapon... Russia does not murder just for Shock and Awe... but a Bio weapons complex that is suspected of "leaking" would be a target for these things...

    You need an il-76 to launch it. And it is just a propaganda weapon.

    You say that based on the western equivalent that is released out the back of a C-130.

    But Russia has Tu-160 bombers whose 11m long bomb bays ( it has two) can have their rotary launchers for missiles removed... I would say they could carry one bomb in each weapon bay and operate at 12km altitude at supersonic speed... not an easy target at all.

    But they aren't using it.

    Those weapons are for point targets... a building or a bridge... when the target is troops in open fields you drop clusters of dumb bombs in a pattern so the fragments and shock waves kill everyone no matter how spread out they are.

    KAB-500s were mass produced from 1980 onwards. Kh-38 is supposed to be in mass production since 2012

    They can use them to hit choke points like bridges to make the retreating enemy forces bunch up to make good targets for dumb bombs, and then send in helicopters and attack aircraft to strafe and rocket and bomb those out of conventional artillery range, while conventional artillery destroys those in range.

    Cluster bombs would be a better bet with fragmentation submunitions... overlapping drop patterns to make sure there are no big gaps.

    He's been asking the same question for, oh I don't know 6 months now, and he will never read your reply, he's only going to ask again.

    He does seem to be stuck on transmit and ignoring the receive button.

    There is no real answer yet even to Western or Western trained forces on Mobile launchers and to lesser extent self propelled gun.

    To be fair despite western support and supposedly an endless supply of drones and MANPADS the Orcs really don't have an answer to Russian artillery or air power either.

    Mobility makes things harder... the mobility of Russian AD systems is not an accident either.

    Kab-500L has been produced since 1980. Kab-500S has been mass produced since 2009.

    Laser and TV guided bombs are for hitting point hard targets... not troops spread out in a field...


    Russian helicopters barely use ATGMs, and if they do, its never against ukrainian SPGs. 95% of what russian helicopters do is lob a few S-8s.

    More than half the videos I have seen of Russian helicopters show ATGMs hits against individual vehicles... many of which looked like 2S1 and 2S3 type vehicles.

    A lot of targets will be groups of troops in the open so rockets are the sensible choice of weapon... lofted attacks give a good spread of rockets and a better distribution of fragments and explosive force.

    I agree about himars, but Pzh-2000s, krabs and caesars should be realy easy to destroy with russian helicopters and aircraft, since they're close to the frontline and have large thermal signatures.

    Are they close to the frontline? For all we know the photos and video might be from Poland and they are part of a disinformation campaign to pretend they are effective.

    But then we have already heard the german gun breaks down when you use it because it is not intended to fire 100 shells a day... while Russian guns fire 10 times more than this and outnumber these guns 100 to one.

    Their precious NATO weapons are a fraction of their total. Vast majority of what they use is Soviet issue.

    The reports from the Orcs themselves don't sound particularly excited about their western weapons, and the friendly forces that are given captured bundles of western weapons don't seem to like them that much either.

    They're hardly enthusiastic about documenting their own losses and all the more so for the weapons their patrons in Europe handed down to them. That's a strict no-no.

    They were told to stop using certain drones because their (mis)use and excessive losses was bringing the brand into disrepute...

    Would it be any different with weapons that HATO sees as the cornerstone of their defence?

    NLAW promised so much, as did Stinger and Javelin... they were going to destroy Russian armour and air power and therefore eliminate their mobility advantages.

    Well large here is relative. Signature from engine is relatively easy to conceal, leaving firing as the main contributor to signature.

    More important they aren't idiots... they will dress up boxes and vehicles to look like targets too... this is not like shooting stuff in a test range.

    A common ploy to hide the price increases is to downsize
    the product and sell it for a similar price.

    Yes... it used to come in bigger packets is normal now... except for fizzy drinks... they got ridiculously big very quick.

    You are not able to admit a defeat even if the Ukronazis would be knocking on your door!

    They are no where near any door of importance to anything.

    And if anything they are knocking to get you to open the door so they can get in out of the hail...

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23 - Page 37 1280px17


    Last edited by GarryB on Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:19 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  limb Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:18 am

    Is it true that the russian army plans to retreat from volchansk? Why are they retreating from the ENTIRE western bank of the the oskol river? Isn't this a tiny shallow river for most of its parts(except the reservoirs) and resupplying should be very easy with pontoon bridges andamphibious vehicles?
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    Post  Azi Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:19 am

    Hole wrote:
    lyle6 wrote:
    SolidarityWithRussia wrote:
    The interesting part is the claim that Ukraine has conquered parts that have no siginificant fortifications, where they will be left vulnerable for a Russian counteroffensive. So if Sivkov is right, then we should see in a few days, whether Russia was just bluffing or not. Let's just hope everything goes as planned for them and not the other way round. pale
    The Ukrainians are losing their irreplaceable mobile reserves for the low, low price of Izyum, a bridgehead that can't be used until the elensky line has been taken anyway. Honestly even if the counter-attack doesn't materialize on Kharkov direction itself the Russians already won this exchange. Wink
    Closing in on 3.000 KIA and 5.000+ WIA.

    As the "3 days to take Kiev" shit Izyum was declared the all important bridgehead by western pundits. It had some importance in the first part of the SMO but that diminished over time.

    Breaking the last fortified lines in the Donbass is the most important thing now. Most Allied troops are located there. Behind this lines are open space and only few enemy troops. A lot of room to manoeuvre.
    How is this possible? I saw a statement from russian MoD that Ukraine lost only 450 soldiers (KIA) in the Kharkov offensive. The attack was with 3-5 brigades (9000 - 15000 soldiers) with 8000 KIA + WIA they wouldn't advance a single meter.

    On the other hand over 4000 KIA in the Kherson offensive are realistic. Ukraine failed here massive!
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    Post  Azi Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:23 am

    limb wrote:Is it true that the russian army plans to retreat from volchansk? Why are they retreating from the ENTIRE western bank of the the oskol river? Isn't this a tiny shallow river for most of its parts(except the reservoirs) and resupplying should be very easy with pontoon bridges andamphibious vehicles?
    Evacuation of civilians is ongoing...so YES! They will retreat behind russian border. Even Udy and Kzachan Lopan will be evacuated. It's not ukrainian propaganda but information from russian channels. Maybe they spontanouesly decide to stay dunno The Ukranian Force was only maximum 15000 soldiers strong...it's not enough to take the whole territory in a few days, they will have to send reinforcements. If Russia decides to defend the northern areas it would be no problem, they are here for many months...defense should be good. Could only be a problem in a few weeks if Ukraine attacks with a really big force.


    Last edited by Azi on Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Azi Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:28 am

    Here a statement from ukrainian propaganda channel "Intel Slava Z".

    The ukrainian chief propagandist Ramzan Kadyrow made a statement!

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23 - Page 37 Fcwz4_10

    He wrote "mistakes were made"... angry attack HOW DARE HE?! This 5th columnist, western trash defeatist and ukrainian propagandist! Russian MoD never makes mistakes!!! It's all going according to a 5D masterplan.


    Last edited by Azi on Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:41 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  limb Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:30 am

    Even Udy and Kzachan Lopan will be evacuated
    Source? This doesn't make sense.

    Laser and TV guided bombs are for hitting point hard targets... not troops spread out in a field...
    Wrong. SALH bombs were routinely used for destroying tanks by RAF tornados and jaguars during desert storm. They had extensive access to the TIALD targeting FLIR pod which with 1980s tech could lock on and autotrack moving targets the size of a jeep up to around 4000m altitude. Meanwhile US JDAMs can hit moving targets with a constantly changing targeting coordinate. Russian aircraft should easily have access to such tech.

    Breaking the last fortified lines in the Donbass is the most important thing now. Most Allied troops are located there. Behind this lines are open space and only few enemy troops. A lot of room to manoeuvre.
    Except the artemovsk-soledar-seversk line is far from being broken. It may take 4-9 more months to take artemovsk. Then theres the Kramatorsk-konstantinovka line which is even more heavily fortified and long than the artemovsk line. Not to mention ugledar-maryinka-avdeyevka which is basically impregnable judging from the constantly stalled advances there.


    Last edited by limb on Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Azi Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:34 am

    limb wrote:
    Even Udy and Kzachan Lopan will be evacuated
    Source? This doesn't make sense.
    Ukrainian chief propagandist channels "Slavyangrad" and "Rybar".
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    Post  Ispan Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:35 am

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/09/11/parte-de-guerra-12-09-2022-manana/

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    Post  limb Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:35 am

    Azi wrote:
    limb wrote:
    Even Udy and Kzachan Lopan will be evacuated
    Source? This doesn't make sense.
    Ukrainian chief propagandist channels "Slavyangrad" and "Rybar".
    but theyre on the other side of kharkov. Whats the logic in this?
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    Post  Azi Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:40 am

    limb wrote:
    Azi wrote:
    limb wrote:
    Even Udy and Kzachan Lopan will be evacuated
    Source? This doesn't make sense.
    Ukrainian chief propagandist channels "Slavyangrad" and "Rybar".
    but theyre on the other side of kharkov. Whats the logic in this?
    Ukrainian forces in this region can easily be redeployed to the northern areas. And then Russia is massively outmatched. The Oskol river is a good defense line for Russia, but unfortunately also for Ukrainian Forces. They can move large groups to other theaters of war and small forces can pin down easy any russian advance over the river.
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    Post  Arrow Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:47 am

    Abandoned Russian equipment during withdrawal as planned.
    https://twitter.com/tinso_ww/status/1568880258631221249?s=20&t=8lGRrlm3QJlr8clp-T2aFA

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    Post  GarryB Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:47 am

    Wrong. SALH bombs were routinely used for destroying tanks by RAF tornados and jaguars during desert storm

    Yeah, million dollar bombs to take out 50K worth of T-55.... money well spent...

    They had extensive access to the TIALD targeting FLIR pod which with 1980s tech could lock on and autotrack moving targets the size of a jeep up to around 4000m altitude. Meanwhile US JDAMs can hit moving targets with a constantly changing targeting coordinate. Russian aircraft should easily have access to such tech.

    They have the tech... the orcs don't have enough tanks or vehicles to warrant their use. Dumb bombs will kill them more efficiently and easier.

    Su-24s from 10km altitude... they will be dead before they hear the bombs that kill them...

    Ukrainian forces in this region can easily be redeployed to the northern areas. And then Russia is massively outmatched. The Oskol river is a good defense line for Russia, but unfortunately also for Ukrainian Forces. They can move large groups to other theaters of war and small forces can pin down easy any russian advance over the river.

    When they group up to fight they can be hit by artillery and dumb bombs and dumb rockets.

    Is it your nazi trained HATO soldiers have become super soldiers overnight... nazis by day... superior to Russian forces by night... what a transformation western propaganda is able to achieve.

    Almost as if they are lying. Rolling Eyes

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