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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:28 am

    You call it Novorossiya, I call it Texas. Will Russia also make a cheesy movie with John Wayne singlehandedly beating the MexicanUkrainian Army (with his sidekick Tiny Tim) followed by some subliminal titles where it states it was actually the US CavalryRussian Armed Forces which kicked the MexicanUkrainian Army out? And that TexasNovorossiya remained independent forever more until it politely asked the USRussian government to please accept it into its fold?
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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    Russia could have taken all of georgia even in 2008 when the Russian military was not in a good state of affairs, but they didn't... they don't want to occupy land with a hostile population... they didn't want it then and  they wont want it now.

    That is half of a story already.
    While the other half is, that if you are to incorporate land claimed as your heritage, your obligations are to bring it up to the standard ASAP, or you will face the harsh consequences in a really short time.
    Even a friendly population, would expect to live "like in Moscow", because ... hey, you are in charge now!
    Not to mention hostile ones.
    Ukraine is the poorest country in Europe already, passing by Moldova on it's way down the toilet.
    There is a disaster in all spheres of infrastructure, bringing some parts of it to the edge of physical threat for a population.
    To put it back on track, would require enormous assets applied, that Russia hardly can afford, and ... for what?!?
    Donbas coal&steel is already there.
    Crimean unsinkable carrier is there, along with gas fields in the Black Sea attributed to it.
    What represents the remaining part of 404?
    There is no industry left, no skills&knowledge Russia can't substitute, or substituted long time ago.
    A land? Well, a joke is good as long as you hear it the very first time.
    Russian Federation has an agricultural land reserve measured in tens of millions hectares. Only the agricultural land that was wild forested in the 90s equals the double size of Spain.
    And global warming adds new hectares each day.
    People? Most of them who are worth bothering are already in Russia or EU. Why bother the remaining lazy nazis&stariks?

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:53 pm

    If c130 carrying Patriots, HIMARS, or LRHW missiles and radars land in kiev, blow it up with the crew there.

    If nazis roll up to some town, with javelins, and other American weapons, drone strike them.

    Israel strikes Syria everytime a new shipment of Iranians arms are detected.

    Lesson? If Russia doesnt want Ukraine, and the west is hell bent on keeping it to threaten russia, it should be levelled like Damascus was and let the west foot the Bill, this said NATO deployment would never be economical because they'd spend all their time just keeping Ukraine alive

    Wack a mole UAF and NATO every day non stop year after year.

    For those who say Israel changes nothing militarily on the ground in syria, well are IRGC units able to operate in Syrias south? No, the Israelis strike iran throughout, in the name of security.

    This is the lowest cost option to denying NATO a staging ground in Ukraine.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:14 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yes, let's invade then leave Ukraine ensuring it joins NATO because if left unoccupied that would happen.

    The entire reason to invade Ukraine would be to prevent it from joining NATO which means you have to keep troops there to ensure that.

    Because relying on mere words worked so well for the Russians the first time when it came to Ukraine. Remind me what happened?

    Long story short leaving after invading would be the biggest tactical blunder you could make, thankfully for the Russians. They do not have armchair experts has generals.

    NATO would not be an option with VKS planes and drones in the air 24/7 zapping anything that looks funny

    Iraq couldn't do squat when USA plastered no-fly zone during the 90s and kept slapping them at leisurely pace, neither would the Ukraine


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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:25 pm

    There is no Ukraine. There is the stooge Kiev regime. It is successfully driving the territory it controls into the ground. Russia
    just has to sit and wait. It is clear that all of the NATzO shrieking about invasion and the urging of its minions in Kiev to ethnically
    cleanse the Donbass is a desperate attempt to bait Russia into taking on the burden of this failed state and give the Ukr nazionalist
    vermin ass cover for their epic failure.

    Putin knows this full well and NATzO's dreams are not going to become reality.

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    Post  par far Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:36 pm

    Russia does not need to do anything big militarily in Ukraine, Ukraine is already destroying it self.

    There are millions of Ukrainians(working age) that have already left Ukraine and there are reports that as many as 5 million Ukrainians(mostly of working age) will leave Ukraine in the summer this year.

    Ukrainian economic situation is getting worse by the day, Russia does not need to do anything. The western elites, the IMF and the Ukrainian oligarchs have cleaned Ukraine up financially.

    The EU is in no better shape, with reports that there will  be millions of refugees coming from Ukraine, the millions of Afghans refugees that will come to the EU and the millions from Africa, the EU will have a shit ton of it's own problems.

    The US also has refugees coming in at it's border in the south and the government is planning on giving them hundreds of thousands of dollars, do you think they will stop coming after hearing that?

    The US establishment is divided, as well as the country is divided and people are fighting each other.

    All Russia needs to do is just focus on it's own development, build up the economy, build up is it's armed forces without getting involved in unnecessary conflicts and make it self even stronger.

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:56 pm

    par far wrote:

    There are millions of Ukrainians(working age) that have already left Ukraine and there are reports that as many as 5 million Ukrainians(mostly of working age) will leave Ukraine in the summer this year.

    Are there as many of them left?
    Hardly believe Laughing

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:21 pm

    It's not about occupation, its about denying NATO the ability to transfer weapons in and out of Ukraine.

    These weapons include LRHW, Himars, Patriot/THAAD, javelin, and other weaponry.

    Its about constant arleigh burke's rehearsing tomahawk strikes on crimea, moscow, and krasnodar.

    It's about b52 rehearsing nuke strikes on crimea and kaliningrad,

    Its about RC135 , e8 JSTARS, and other AEWC planes collecting information on russian defensive positions.

    This is a problem that has nothing to do with Ukraines shitty economy, or government.

    Ryabkov, Putin, antonov, naryshkin, bortnikov, Lavrov, and everyone who matters has already made it clear, that this is a big problem that needs immediate resolution, or they will be resolved by military technical measures. Everything else is fluff.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:01 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 6 Fiq9qp10

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:57 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yes, let's invade then leave Ukraine ensuring it joins NATO because if left unoccupied that would happen.

    The entire reason to invade Ukraine would be to prevent it from joining NATO which means you have to keep troops there to ensure that.

    Because relying on mere words worked so well for the Russians the first time when it came to Ukraine. Remind me what happened?

    Long story short leaving after invading would be the biggest tactical blunder you could make, thankfully for the Russians. They do not have armchair experts has generals.

    NATO would not be an option with VKS planes and drones in the air 24/7 zapping anything that looks funny

    Iraq couldn't do squat when USA plastered no-fly zone during the 90s and kept slapping them at leisurely pace, neither would the Ukraine



    Russia isn't going to start downing US or European planes.....

    Has that means full blown war, and Putin does not want war with the US and Europe,

    The only way for Russia to keep NATO forces out would be to occupy it.

    The notion that attacking US or European forces and triggering WW3 is pure insanity. Again, thankfully the russians do not have armchair experts has Generals. This isn't some silly video game where Russian can act however it wants without repercussions.

    So no, Russia cannot "zap" NATO planes unless its wants full blown war. At that point if everyone here is so desperate for that war, I hope you will sign up for it.

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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:49 pm

    Bro I'm not worried about the ruskies. These new left and new right neocon/neolib politicians genuinely scare me. Not because they are proud and mighty and brave or even boisterous but the exact opposite. Thry terrify me as a coward terrifies me, or as an unsure man or woman using dangerous equipment scares me. These people are suffering the delusions of ideology long held in their echo chambers. Worse, they actually believe their propaganda. Thry ARE the good guys fighting for democracy.

    They are morally and ethically bankrupt and totally out of touch. These fuckers might just start ww3.

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    AZ-5
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    Post  AZ-5 Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:24 pm

    This guy was in-charge of a Georgian Army inf brigade in Ossetia.
    Not sure if that's good track record...

    Breaking News: Germany Arrests Georgian “Hero” General, now Ukrainian Citizen

    By Bohdan Nahaylo.
    Published Jan. 9. Updated Jan. 9 at 1:06 pm

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #31 - Page 6 27144610

    The British newspaper Express reported on Jan. 9 that Germany has arrested Brig-Gen Giorgi Kalandadze while he was visiting his daughter in Berlin. Gen. Kalandadze believes he has been placed on a “Russian hunting list.” “I led the defense against Russian aggression in Georgia in 2008, I have been training Ukrainian forces and jointly leading Ukraine’s National Guard since 2014,“ he told journalists after being released on bail. Kalandadze says that the authorities in Tbilisi issued a warrant for his arrest two days after he had publicly criticized the extent of Russian influence in Georgia in a television interview. “The charges are completely unfounded. I am not even on Interpol’s Red list. This is a lower-level request by Georgia which is now heavily influenced by Russia, and which Germany, for some reason, has now decided to honor," the General claims.

    kyivpost.com/world/breaking-news-germany-arrests-georgian-hero-general-now-ukrainian-citizen.html

    InterPressNews @ipnEng · Jan 7
    "I have been released on bail and in a few weeks I will have a trial that will make a decision we are waiting for," said former Chief of the General Staff of #Georgia, Gigi #Kalandadze, who was detained in #Germany on December 19

    twitter.com/ipnEng/status/1479394445044948993

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:10 pm

    The Suckshitvilli regime shelled residential areas of Tshinvali around midnight when people were in their homes. In all 2,000
    Ossetians died during this US bootlick "anti-terrorist operation". This maggot is a war criminal. His family must have been
    loyal Nazis under Stepan Bandera's command. I wonder if they ran off to Canada or the USA after WWII.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:20 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Yes, let's invade then leave Ukraine ensuring it joins NATO because if left unoccupied that would happen.

    The entire reason to invade Ukraine would be to prevent it from joining NATO which means you have to keep troops there to ensure that.

    Because relying on mere words worked so well for the Russians the first time when it came to Ukraine. Remind me what happened?

    Long story short leaving after invading would be the biggest tactical blunder you could make, thankfully for the Russians. They do not have armchair experts has generals.

    NATO would not be an option with VKS planes and drones in the air 24/7 zapping anything that looks funny

    Iraq couldn't do squat when USA plastered no-fly zone during the 90s and kept slapping them at leisurely pace, neither would the Ukraine



    Russia isn't going to start downing US or European planes.....

    Has that means full blown war, and Putin does not want war with the US and Europe,

    The only way for Russia to keep NATO forces out would be to occupy it.

    The notion that attacking US or European forces and triggering WW3 is pure insanity. Again, thankfully the russians do not have armchair experts has Generals. This isn't some silly video game where Russian can act however it wants without repercussions.

    So no, Russia cannot "zap" NATO planes unless its wants full blown war. At that point if everyone here is so desperate for that war, I hope you will sign up for it.

    NATO wont do anything except watch, as Russia destroys weapons shipments into Ukraine. 

    It didn't do anything in Ossetia and Abkhazia, it didnt do anything in Crimea , it didn't do anything in Nagorno Karabakh,  it wont do anything in Kazakhstan,  and it definitely wont do anything when Russia acts on Ukraine. 

    Occupation is unnecessary, Russia can destroy Ukrainian military capability , and fly air sorties with impunity over that territory.  It is like syria to Israel

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:45 pm

    Russia wasn't attacking US or NATO forces then now was it.

    Russia cannot and will not attack any shipments that have US or NATO personal with them and you've got to be purely insane to think they would.

    Occupation is necessary if Russia has to do use force, there is no way around that. Bombing Ukraine will only ensure one thing, NATO accepts Ukraine.

    That is the reality no matter what fantasy you tell yourself

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    Post  LMFS Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:12 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Russia wasn't attacking US or NATO forces then now was it.

    Russia cannot and will not attack any shipments that have US or NATO personal with them and you've got to be purely insane to think they would.

    Occupation is necessary if Russia has to do use force, there is no way around that. Bombing Ukraine will only ensure one thing, NATO accepts Ukraine.

    That is the reality no matter what fantasy you tell yourself

    US will escalate to full blown war like when Iran hit their bases in Iraq you mean? Sure thumbsup

    Actually it is in Russia's advantage to call out the Western bluffs and posturing as the galaxy's greatest military, so US will not risk to be shown and that is why they have already said they will not fight the Russians over Ukraine. I would say in such a case as an attack to their staff in Ukraine they would hide the casualties as they have done before and try another round of sanctions, propaganda and regime change operations, which is what they are really good at.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:12 am

    Putin himself said they could have sunk the british ship and ww3 would not have started.

    Whether you think it's insane or not is irrelevant, those are the words from the Russian leadership.

    As for attacking NATO weapons shipments , if they are used to threaten Russia they will be attacked by military technical measures, that's from president, defense minister, and whole russian leadership.

    The US better have some concrete measures to withdraw NATO to 1997 positions by tomorrow, or that is the last meeting between the parties, and the ultimatum becomes enforced.

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    Post  Krepost Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:30 am

    kvs wrote:There is no Ukraine.   There is the stooge Kiev regime.  It is successfully driving the territory it controls into the ground.   Russia
    just has to sit and wait.   It is clear that all of the NATzO shrieking about invasion and the urging of its minions in Kiev to ethnically
    cleanse the Donbass is a desperate attempt to bait Russia into taking on the burden of this failed state and give the Ukr nazionalist
    vermin ass cover for their epic failure.

    Putin knows this full well and NATzO's dreams are not going to become reality.


    What you are saying is true.
    Russia will not be the one starting the hostilities: NATO knows that, 404 Knows that, everybody knows that
    However there are 2 situations when Russia will be forced to go to war (and rightfully so):
    - If 404 attacks DNR/LNR
    - If NATO moves into 404

    The armchair generals are discussing those eventualities.
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    Post  Krepost Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:32 am

    What is user SeigSoloyvov's Avatar?
    It looks a bit like the Russian double headed eagle but it has Nazi style wings.
    His user name is also Nazi sounding with a Russian twist at the end:
    - Seig (like the Nazi Seig Heil slogan)
    - SeigSoloyvov : like the Nazi SS
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:40 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Putin himself said they could have sunk the british ship and ww3 would not have started.

    Whether you think it's insane or not is irrelevant, those are the words from the Russian leadership.

    As for attacking NATO weapons shipments , if they are used to threaten Russia they will be attacked by military technical measures, that's from president, defense minister, and whole russian leadership.

    The US better have some concrete measures to withdraw NATO to 1997 positions by tomorrow, or that is the last meeting between the parties, and the ultimatum becomes enforced.

    What Putin says is different than what would actually happen.
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    Post  PhSt Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:42 am

    Krepost wrote:What is user SeigSoloyvov's Avatar?
    It looks a bit like the Russian double headed eagle but it has Nazi style wings.
    His user name is also Nazi sounding with a Russian twist at the end:
    - Seig (like the Nazi Seig Heil slogan)
    - SeigSoloyvov : like the Nazi SS

    I think his avatar is from Imperium of Man Laughing
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:46 am

    Krepost wrote:What is user SeigSoloyvov's Avatar?
    It looks a bit like the Russian double headed eagle but it has Nazi style wings.
    His user name is also Nazi sounding with a Russian twist at the end:
    - Seig (like the Nazi Seig Heil slogan)
    - SeigSoloyvov : like the Nazi SS

    Are you that stupid Shocked

    It's the Imperial Eagle from Warhammer 40k.

    Seig is also short for Seigfried which is a reference to fictional character from a series in this case.

    Soloyvov is a common Russian last name.

    Also what have I said that would give any remote idea I am a Nazi? talking about NATO and Russia in ukraine.

    Dude, you are one deranged individual.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:48 am

    LMFS wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Russia wasn't attacking US or NATO forces then now was it.

    Russia cannot and will not attack any shipments that have US or NATO personal with them and you've got to be purely insane to think they would.

    Occupation is necessary if Russia has to do use force, there is no way around that. Bombing Ukraine will only ensure one thing, NATO accepts Ukraine.

    That is the reality no matter what fantasy you tell yourself

    US will escalate to full blown war like when Iran hit their bases in Iraq you mean? Sure thumbsup

    Actually it is in Russia's advantage to call out the Western bluffs and posturing as the galaxy's greatest military, so US will not risk to be shown and that is why they have already said they will not fight the Russians over Ukraine. I would say in such a case as an attack to their staff in Ukraine they would hide the casualties as they have done before and try another round of sanctions, propaganda and regime change operations, which is what they are really good at.

    That what you think? Iran didn't target the personal just areas around the base.

    But believe what you wish, you have your view and that's all I can say.

    Its very wrong but hey, thankfully people with that ignorant logic aren't in places of power.
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    Post  Krepost Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:12 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Krepost wrote:What is user SeigSoloyvov's Avatar?
    It looks a bit like the Russian double headed eagle but it has Nazi style wings.
    His user name is also Nazi sounding with a Russian twist at the end:
    - Seig (like the Nazi Seig Heil slogan)
    - SeigSoloyvov : like the Nazi SS

    Are you that stupid  Shocked

    It's the Imperial Eagle from Warhammer 40k.

    Seig is also short for Seigfried which is a reference to fictional character from a series in this case.

    Soloyvov is a common Russian last name.

    Also what have I said that would give any remote idea I am a Nazi? talking about NATO and Russia in ukraine.

    Dude, you are one deranged individual.

    There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

    Where did I accuse you of being a Nazi? or anything for that matter?

    I asked about your avatar and username.
    I am taking your reply as a reflection of what kind of an individual you are.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:15 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:Putin himself said they could have sunk the british ship and ww3 would not have started.

    Whether you think it's insane or not is irrelevant, those are the words from the Russian leadership.

    As for attacking NATO weapons shipments , if they are used to threaten Russia they will be attacked by military technical measures, that's from president, defense minister, and whole russian leadership.

    The US better have some concrete measures to withdraw NATO to 1997 positions by tomorrow, or that is the last meeting between the parties, and the ultimatum becomes enforced.

    What Putin says is different than what would actually happen.

    I will take the words of the worlds foremost statesman over your opinion,

    Like I said, there better be some concrete measures by tomorrow, or the next steps RF takes will be unilateral to remove the threat posed by NATO 

    Debaltseve and Ilovaisk are child's play to what can be done there, and Russia wont give NATO the time to airlift banderites out like taliban did, clocks running out.

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