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nomadski
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    Ex military firearms and their collector value today

    nomadski
    nomadski

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    Post  nomadski Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:25 am


    Seems like a plan to me . People and especially youngsters can be a real pest . That is one reason I do not go out doing my landscape painting or Boat fishing . In both cases , I tend to get disturbed by either constant questions or adults that for no reason at all , take exceptions and start arguments ! No peace .

    To stop people asking questions , while you travel , then you could put your Guns in a back pack , together with the Barrels . This way you are not technically concealing a weapon . But back pack has to be tall and cumbersome . A folding stock allows use of much smaller back pack or shoulder bag . I agree a hollow walking stick may be considered as conceal , but you could instead just use a widely available cardboard tube to carry the barrel . This should stop inquisitive youngsters pestering you . And is not technically concealing . Since the police can see it and ask to inspect it .


    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:16 am

    Another issue is that I am quite tall so a decent walking stick length barrel would not be very light and without a shoulder stock portion actually aiming and firing is not so easy.

    Having a firearm that folds or breaks up into pieces would be ideal as long as it cannot be fired until fully assembled or extended.

    I also tend to like odd weapons so for instance a combination gun where there is a semi auto .22 rifle with a single shot shotgun barrel appeals to me too.

    The Soviets developed a weapon for Cosmonauts to allow them to defend themselves after they land back on earth.

    They could end up all sorts of places so they were equipped with a relatively short barrel combination gun... the weapon is called the TP-82 and it is a short triple barrel break open shotgun type weapon with two 32 gauge shotgun barrels and a single barrel below and between them in 5.45 x39mm calibre.

    The 32 gauge barrels can fire standard buckshot but also flares, while the 5.45mm barrel uses standard ammo though the cosmonaut is equipped with soft nose hunting ammo for it.

    Longer barrels and a folding stock and either 410 shotgun calibre or perhaps 12 gauge which is more easily available and 7.62 x 39mm for the third barrel would be rather interesting.
    nomadski
    nomadski

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    Post  nomadski Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:32 am

    I think , when I say a walking stick , carrying a barrel , that this should not be confused with walking stick barrels or Cane guns , that are in effect fixed and can not be removed . A hollow stick , allows the barrel to be stored and removed . It is not fired in situ . It can be wood ( Bamboo reinforced with aluminium tube in upper section , or tube aluminium ) . A thumb stick , with upper portion hollowed out or bored out to store the barrel ,  with horn used to form the thumb grip , that is screw on / off , can be used as walking pole / stick on rough terrain , especially if you are big and heavy . You can also use it to rest Rifle on , to steady the aim . Again if you are not young like me , then crawling on the ground is out of the question . You will need a 5 foot  thumb pole to go down hill and steady your aim .


    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LONG-134-CM-Shepherds-Crook-Walking-Stick-Thumb-Stick-Walking-Stick/265340567007?hash=item3dc787bddf:g:J1wAAOSwvgFhWF3J&pageci=819c5aca-8eb8-4af5-b5f1-7a16698be6d2&redirect=mobile


    Not to be confused with a gun stick .


    https://www.1stdibs.co.uk/furniture/more-furniture-collectibles/collectibles-curiosities/arms-armor-weapons/antique-french-gun-walking-stick-cane-that-has-been-disabled/id-f_8749663/

    Folding wooden stock . DIY .

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru-XB6zWkbY

    MBW stocks .

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hDJJklTPvPk

    Hand loading of reduced load allows use of heavier calibre for small animals . Only one barrel needed .

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s1jnuTZ9R6A

    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:07 pm

    I like the idea of reduced loads... for .22lr you can get all sorts of type of ammo, from super high velocity 22 stinger loads with 36 grain bullets at enormous velocities to standard supersonic and standard subsonic, but you can also get reduced weight 30 grain subsonic rounds too that are very very quiet and powerful enough for small game like rats or mice or small birds without being a danger over large distances.

    It is interesting that the Russian and Soviet calibres were optimised to all be the same actual calibre of about 7.7mm or .310 inch calibre.

    The 7.62 x 54mm Russian rifle and MG calibre, the 7.62 x38mm Nagant revolver round, the 7.62x25 Tokarev pistol round, the 7.62x39mm AK/SKS calibre are all the same diameter so if you are hand loading you could use a choice of projectiles from a range of different case sizes... a 90 grain Tokarev pistol bullet with a full powder charge from a Mosin rifle, or even just a 122 grain AK projectile in a 54mm case would be rather interesting to experiment with.

    The AK also has a 193 grain subsonic round which should fit the 54mm rifle case... I already have 158 grain and 122 grain AK bullets and 148 and 174 and 180 and 203 grain bullets for my Mosin rifles...

    I remember in the 1980s there was a company that offered ammo in 7.62x51mm and 7.62 x39mm calibre with 50 grain bullets with a plastic sabot. Never got around to buying any and suspect they would be horribly inaccurate, but an interesting thing to experiment with.

    I have a 5.6 x 39mm rifle which seems to use .224 calibre bullets which is interesting because there are a range of projectiles in that calibre that are long projectiles for low drag longer range shooting.

    The 5.6 x 39mm is an unusual sporting round developed in the Soviet Union in the 1950s based on the then new 7.62x39mm rimless cartridge necked down to a small calibre high velocity bullet... it was used as the basis for the western 6mm PPC and the .22 PPC bench rest shooting rounds and also the Grendel round too.

    Not popular in the west because it is basically similar to a 223 which is more readily available and cheaper... but being base on a fatter case it has the potential to hold more propellent and therefore handle heavier projectiles and higher velocities... in theory.

    I think a walking stick gun is probably the sort of thing that sounds better than it actually is... if it is a titanium barrel or carbon fibre barrel then it might be light weight enough to be a good walking stick but I suspect the 3-4 thousand dollar price tag for such a barrel would make it less appealing.

    Having two walking sticks that can be held together to support a rifle barrel makes sense especially when walking across difficult terrain, but light weight carbon fibre walking stick that don't have metal cores with precision bored rifled barrels are much cheaper and yet so practical... especially if they are designed to be supports for your tent when you stop for the night.

    After you get a bit of experience in the bush you start to quickly work out what is useful and what is a waste of time... carrying around dead weight soon teaches you to do without some luxuries... though an emergency beacon is a new thing I have added to my list. Normally very expensive you can often hire them for a trip for $20-$30 and they basically summons a rescue helicopter directly to your location... if you slip and fall on the second day of a five day trip you might have to spend four or five days in the open before anyone even starts to look for you... four days in the cold with no water would probably kill you even if your injuries were not life threatening.
    nomadski
    nomadski

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    Post  nomadski Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:15 pm

    You go out alone , and camp out in areas far away from Roads . Therefore you carry a large back pack . Large enough to accommodate a Carbine style Rifle with folding stock . You already own a number of Rifles in original condition that are collector's pieces and should not be modified . However choose one Rifle that is already modified or easy to modify or shortened  . I would choose the larger calibre Rifle . Since a reduced hand load can be used for smaller animals . And a normal load for bigger animals . But unless you can retrieve the large kill quickly to a freezer , then it is pointless to go after bigger animal . Best to use Rifle to hunt small game that you clean and cook and eat , while Camping . No need to buy new Gun .

    But if it is more economical or desirable to buy new long barrel Rifle , than modifying old Rifle or destroying it's value , then buy single barrel . And store the single barrel in hiking pole that I mentioned . It is only for temporary storage , while you go on public transport or near towns or villages , where there are a lot of kids or people . While you are out in the country , you can take barrel out and put it into back pack . The thumb pole will make you steady and you can use it to put a tent up , like polish lavvu  . Where there are no trees to cut down . Even with new Rifle , choose bigger calibre , and use hand reduced load for different animals .


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_uNl4vULRc

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:04 pm

    New Zealand is a long narrow country... you really can't get anywhere that is more than 60km from a coastline, though the bottom of the South Island is a bit rugged.

    Most of the time I will either be going for a walk or a hunt... if it is hunting specific animals like deer or goat or pigs then I would probably take a bolt action rifle like my 1944 carbine with the suppressor, but if I was going walking or camping then a folding light weapon in 22 rimfire would be ideal... a low power weapon that does not destroy meat but is ideal for small game like rabbit or possum.

    A TOZ-199 would be interesting and there is the American AR-7 which is a semi auto .22 which comes apart and can be pushed into its own stock and floats...

    Ex military firearms and their collector value today - Page 2 25990710

    Though the barrel does look a bit short...

    I will just keep my eye out for Russian multi calibre rifles I think...

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    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:20 pm

    Under new rules in UK u need to register deactivated arms and old spec deactivate Ur not allowed to sell unless out with the EU. cry that's me stuck with mine unless anyone wants to buy outside EU.
    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:59 am

    That is ridiculous... most deactivated guns cost more than the original because they are normal guns, but have been modified so they can't fire which costs more money, so you end up with something that is more expensive than a real one but unable to be used as a gun.

    I was seriously considering doing that with my L1A1... it was in excellent condition, but I ended up getting about 4K for it and its bits... and I got it in the mid 1990s for about $600, so I can't really complain too much.

    Given the choice however I would rather the rules were the same as in the mid 1980s...

    Many of the guns I had to give up had little historical value... my AK was Chinese, but before they started making them super cheap and super crap, and my M4 carbine was a Chinese knockoff too, but my SLR was a beauty.

    Still, a friend of mine has his SLR story too... he bought a German FN FAL in semi auto only... they promised to buy them but then reneged on the deal and developed their own G3 when the Belgians refused to let the Germans produce the FN FAL in Germany. They had already bought a batch that had fixed cocking handles and fixed rear iron sights... made them rather rare.

    My rifle was a NZ Army rifle I think or possibly Australian and had a folding cocking handle and fold down rear iron peep sights.

    It was not light but was very long and had a good balance and the recoil was a nice push...
    nomadski
    nomadski

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    Post  nomadski Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:38 pm

    There are few places to hunt now . But if you are allowed , then still costs may not be justified . I don't fish anymore . When I was five , I used to enjoy , using my magnifying glass to incinerate a column of ants , marching in the hot Sun . When twenty years old , I caught fish , for hell of it , thinking I was outsmarting them . Then threw them back , half dead . Later I decided to only fish , if I could eat them and if it cost me less than buying fish from shop . And this is difficult to justify now . I think for average worker wanting to experience nature and solitude , that Camping out is a better way . Take food with you . Develop Bushcraft skills . Collecting firearms and selling and buying , can still be a separate activity , for those who can afford .

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uc_5V_XKRZA


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq12kkiWxNg


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PNGx-ZcNWSc

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_8wwAwEDeGo


    d_taddei2
    d_taddei2

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    Post  d_taddei2 Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:That is ridiculous... most deactivated guns cost more than the original because they are normal guns, but have been modified so they can't fire which costs more money, so you end up with something that is more expensive than a real one but unable to be used as a gun.

    I was seriously considering doing that with my L1A1... it was in excellent condition, but I ended up getting about 4K for it and its bits... and I got it in the mid 1990s for about $600, so I can't really complain too much.

    Given the choice however I would rather the rules were the same as in the mid 1980s...

    Many of the guns I had to give up had little historical value... my AK was Chinese, but before they started making them super cheap and super crap, and my M4 carbine was a Chinese knockoff too, but my SLR was a beauty.

    Still, a friend of mine has his SLR story too... he bought a German FN FAL in semi auto only... they promised to buy them but then reneged on the deal and developed their own G3 when the Belgians refused to let the Germans produce the FN FAL in Germany. They had already bought a batch that had fixed cocking handles and fixed rear iron sights... made them rather rare.

    My rifle was a NZ Army rifle I think or possibly Australian and had a folding cocking handle and fold down rear iron peep sights.

    It was not light but was very long and had a good balance and the recoil was a nice push...

    When I joined the forces the SLR was already phased out only the SAS still used it as they didn't like the SA-80 and to be honest nobody in the forces liked it either, too unreliable. But the older guys told me that they could use a match stick and convert the SLR to full auto lol. The Bren gun they all loved as well said it's odd layout would make u think it was not accurate, magazine on the top sight along the side of the weapon. But it proved to be very accurate, in fact too accurate for an LMG and they wanted a weapon that had a spread and not too accurate, so despite converting it to 7.62mm in the later years they got rid of it (too India I believe where it's still in service) and initially they just used the GPMG as MMG and LMG roles, but the GPMG was a bit to heavy for LMG role, so when sa-80 was being designed they asked for LMG version to also be designed and along came the LSW. It was fairly accurate but we would f*CK the barrels with amount of rounds we put down it despite it being mag fed lol. The older guys said they missed the SLR and Bren gun. The sterling sub machine they said was ok but jammed a bit, and the silent version was very quiet.
    GarryB
    GarryB

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    Post  GarryB Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:09 am

    Yeah, I don't buy it when they say the Bren was too accurate... there is no such thing as too accurate... especially for an automatic weapon... if all the bullets are hitting the same man in a group then just don't hold it so steady... give it a horizontal or vertical wiggle when you fire it.

    They were producing and testing all sorts of new types of ammo in the 1990s and one of the new rounds was an armour piercing incendiary round in 5.45 x 39mm and because it was armour piercing they were testing it at different ranges to check for accuracy and also penetration.

    At 300m they fired three shots and in terms of accuracy the centres of the three shots were 18mm apart... that is 1.8cms... so long barrel guns with bipods can be very accurate, but you can change that easily enough.

    If the Bren gun was too accurate the simple solution is to check the rifling spin rate and then choose a bullet weight that does not suit that spin rate and you will have the inaccuracy you desire... but critically when you want your accuracy back just load the correct weight bullets and start driving tacks again.

    A lot of the myth and rumour regarding the SVD is around the different versions with different barrel twists for different types of ammo... with the right ammo it can be every bit as accurate as any western rifle in 7.62x51mm ammo like the M21 (modified M14)... but it was always intended as an infantry platoon support rifle to be used at the 500-800m range where their RPKs almost reach and their assault rifles have no chance... but then the assault rifles of the enemy are not much use either.

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