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50 posters

    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:34 am

    Thanks, I was hoping for information about how the new engine has improved thrust or fuel efficiency...
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:39 am

    December 30, 09:25,
    updated December 30, 09:37

    Two Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carriers handed over for flight tests
    According to the UAC, the aircraft were developed by PJSC "Tupolev"

    MOSCOW, 30 December. /TASS/. Two regular Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carriers have been handed over for flight tests, the press service of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) reported on Friday.

    "Two Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carriers developed by Tupolev PJSC (part of the Rostec UAC) were handed over for flight tests. The first aircraft mass-produced under the Tu-160M ​​reproduction program and a combat aircraft that underwent a deep modernization," the organization noted. .

    At the flight test station, the necessary tests of aircraft systems and engines, as well as on-board radio-electronic equipment, will be carried out. After that, the aircraft will be transferred to the operating organization.

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16720155
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    December 30, 09:26,
    updated December 30, 09:59

    Rostec plans to increase production of Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carriers
    According to the head of the state corporation Sergey Chemezov, the upgraded missile carriers received new avionics, NK-32-02 engines and other systems.

    MOSCOW, 30 December. /TASS/. Rostec State Corporation plans to increase the production of Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carriers in the coming years. This was announced on Friday by the head of Rostec Sergey Chemezov.

    "The Tu-160 is the most important part of Russia's nuclear triad, so the modernization of combat vehicles and the resumption of production of these strategic bombers is our priority task. The updated missile carriers surpass their predecessors in their characteristics, they received new avionics equipment, NK-32-02 engines and other systems.
    In the coming years, the production of these machines will be increased," Chemezov said. His words are reported by the press service of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC).

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16720175
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    December 30, 10:14
    Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carrier completes factory test program

    The first Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carrier built from scratch completed the factory test program - UAC.


    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/16720799


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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:11 pm

    Huge achievement, at a time it seemed a pipe dream, when the delays in the program kept mounting to the point of demanding the direct attention of the top government. But finally the production of the Tu-160 has been restarted and seems to be working timely, making clear the real scale of Russian's capabilities. Apart from this and just in a couple of days the last batch of Su-57 was delivered according to plan, two SSBN were floated / handed over to VMF and the MC-21 with domestic engines and composite wing was certified, to the dismay of Western sore losers respekt

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    Post  Hole Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:20 pm

    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 Scree553
    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 Scree554
    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 Scree555

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    Post  AMCXXL Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:25 am

    Выкачены второй бомбардировщик Ту-160М новой постройки и четвертый модернизированный самолет: bmpd — LiveJournal
    The second Tu-160M ​​bomber of new construction and the fourth modernized aircraft were rolled out


    PJSC United Aircraft Corporation (PJSC UAC) announced on December 30, 2022 that two regular Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carriers developed by PJSC Tupolev (part of PJSC United Aircraft Corporation of Rostec State Corporation) were transferred for flight tests. This is the first aircraft mass-produced under the Tu-160M ​​reproduction program and a combat aircraft that has undergone a deep modernization.


    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 9999329_original

    Rolled out at the Kazan Aviation Plant (KAZ) named after S.P. Gobunov - a branch of Tupolev PJSC, the fourth sample of the Tu-160 strategic bomber that has been upgraded to the level of Tu-160M. The remnants of the image of the flag of the Russian Air Force are visible on the bow, which was previously part of the coloring of the Tu-160 combat bombers. Kazan, December 2022 (c) United Aircraft Corporation PJSC




    The flight test station will carry out the necessary tests of aircraft systems and engines, as well as avionics. After that, the aircraft will be transferred to the operating organization.

    “The Tu-160 is the most important part of the Russian nuclear triad, so the modernization of combat vehicles and the resumption of production of these strategic bombers is our priority task. The updated missile carriers surpass their predecessors in their characteristics, they received new on-board radio-electronic equipment, NK-32-02 engines and other systems. In the coming years, the production of these machines will increase,” said Sergey Chemezov, General Director of Rostec State Corporation.


    From the bmpd side, we indicatethat, thus, as can be understood, at the Kazan Aviation Plant (KAZ) named after S.P. Gobunov, a branch of Tupolev PJSC in Kazan, the second Tu-160M ​​strategic bomber of the new construction and the fourth model of the Tu-160 strategic bomber upgraded to the Tu-160M ​​level were pumped out and transferred to the flight test station of the plant. Their first flights, apparently, have not yet taken place.

    Recall that on January 25, 2018, the Ministry of Defense of Russia in the presence of the President of Russia V.V. Putin signed a contract with Tupolev PJSC in Kazanworth 160 billion rubles for the construction until 2027 of ten new Tu-160M ​​bombers (also sometimes referred to as Tu-160M2). The first (experimental) Tu-160M ​​bomber built under this contract (serial number 8-05) was made from a backlog left over from Soviet times and made its first flight in Kazan on January 12, 2022, still unpainted.

    On December 30, 2022, the UAC issued a press release in which it announced that in December the next flight of the first newly manufactured prototype of the Tu-160M ​​strategic missile carrier took place and that the factory test program was completed on the aircraft. “As part of the flight, maneuvers were performed to check the stability and controllability of the aircraft in the air, the performance of aircraft systems and engines, as well as on-board radio-electronic equipment.” Judging by the photographs circulated at the same time, the first built Tu-160M ​​has already received almost full color.

    Now it has been announced that the second Tu-160M ​​aircraft built at KAZ under the contract in 2018 will be rolled out. This aircraft is believed to have serial number 9-01.

    As for the program for upgrading the already manufactured Tu-160 bombers to the level of Tu-160M, the first prototype of the modernized Tu-160M ​​strategic bomber was converted from a combat bomber with serial number 4-05 and the name "Igor Sikorsky", which previously had tail number "14 " and registration number RF-94103. The aircraft made its first flight after the completion of the re-equipment at the Kazan Aviation Plant on February 2, 2020. Then, new engines NK-32 series 02 (NK-32-02) were installed on the aircraft for testing, the first flight with which at the KAZ airfield was made on November 3, 2020. After completing the flight test phase, this aircraft flew on March 10, 2021to continue testing from Kazan to the flight test and development base of Tupolev PJSC in Zhukovsky.

    The second aircraft upgraded to the level of Tu-160M, apparently, was a bomber with serial number 4-01 and the name "Boris Veremey" (previously had tail number "09"). This aircraft with the new registration number RF-94444, immediately equipped with new NK-32 series 02 (NK-32-02) engines, began flight tests in September 2021.

    The third aircraft upgraded to the level of Tu-160M ​​(serial number unknown) made its first flightin Kazan in December 2022. Now the fourth aircraft, which has completed the modernization to the level of the Tu-160M, has been rolled out. It is unpainted and its serial number is also unknown, but on the nose there are visible remnants of the image of the Russian Air Force flag, which previously adorned Tu-160 combat bombers. It is possible that one of these aircraft is a plane with the name "Valentin Bliznyuk" (serial number 2-02, previously had tail number "19" and registration number RF-94113), which has been at KAZ since March 2016.



    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 9999707_1000

    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 9999519_1000

    The first modernized Tu-160M ​​strategic bomber (probable serial number 8-05) of the new construction of the Kazan Aviation Plant - a branch of PJSC "Tupolev" (as part of PJSC "United Aircraft Corporation") in the next flight. Kazan, December 2022 (c) United Aircraft Corporation PJSC



    It is not entirely clear, but it seems that there are already 6 Tu-160M in the final phase of production and tests

    On the Tu-160 of Soviet construction, there would be 4:

    04-05 Nº14 "Igor Sikorsky"  RF-94103 from 121º TBAP Engels
    04-01 Nº09 "Boris Veremey" taken from Zhukovsky
    08-04 w/o  "Pyotr Deynekin" taken from the Kazan Plant "reserve"
    02-02 Nº19 "Valentin Bliznyuk" RF-94113 from 121º TBAP Engels

    The two of new construction:
    08-05
    09-01


    In total there was a maximum of 15-16 in the Engels regiment (the track of No. 07 "Aleksandr Molodchy" was lost years ago, maybe it is decommissioned)

    In addition, other 2 were taken from the "reserve" (Zhukovsky and Kazan)

    Also there are a contract for 10 of new construction


    Then for 2027-2028 should be at least 27 Tu-160M, that is a complete regiment of 27 in 3 squadrons of 9 each

    In total, about 60 should be built for 2 regiments of 27 and about 6 for training (at least one for each combat squadron).
    Also, if the rhythm is good (4-5 machines per year), I do not see the need to modernize the Tu-95MSM since in 2028-2035 all production could be completed until reaching those 60 Tu-160M in total and the Tu -95 would be definitively decommissioned

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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:09 pm

    Compared to the B-52 the Tu-95MS is a teenager.  Very Happy
    Keep them!
    As the current events show you can´t have enough missile carriers.

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    AMCXXL
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    Post  AMCXXL Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:10 pm

    @Hole

    Compared to the B-52 the Tu-95MS is a teenager. Very Happy
    Keep them!
    As the current events show you can´t have enough missile carriers.

    Of course, you can keep the Tu-95s and open a couple of new regiments with them once you receive all the Tu-160Ms, pending the PAK-DAs.

    Hovever, the Tu-95's mission is Mutual Assured Destruction, therefore. once you get the Tu-160M for the nuclear triad there is no point in modernizing them if you just want to keep them to shove a few conventional missiles up the Nazis' ass

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    Post  lancelot Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:51 pm

    60 aircraft seems kind of excessive for these lumbering beasts. These are huge quad 32 ton engine beasts. In comparison the Tu-95 has quad turboprop engines which likely have similar performance to a 10 ton engine with a turboshaft. You can tell it since the Tu-95 carries 15 tons of payload while this carries 45 tons. Basically a third. The construction costs and upkeep on these Tu-160 should be horrendous. You retire relatively cheap to operate aircraft like Tu-22M3 and Tu-95 and only keep the elephants. Kind of bonkers really. You can likely build twice the Tu-22M3 like aircraft for same price and Tu-95 is likely even cheaper. I hope PAK-DA is made with economy in consideration otherwise Russia will basically be out of production ready theater bombers. The Su-34 is not a replacement for the Tu-22M3, regardless of what the RuAF might say, it has half the payload. The current conflict has shown Russia needs missile slinging aircraft which can do a lot of cycles on the cheap and the Tu-160 isn't it I think. If anything I think the major omission has been a cheap modernized Kh-15 equivalent. The Kh-101 is just too overpowered for this scale of operations, it has a pointlessly huge range, when you just want to hit something inside the IADS bubble from the periphery. Something with a range similar to the Iskander, 500km, would be good enough. The Tu-160 can carry twice the Kh-15 compared with Kh-101.

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    Post  George1 Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:30 pm

    the first Tu-160M ​​aircraft of new construction will be operational or it is just a prototype?
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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:30 pm

    No point in modernizing them if you just want to keep them to shove a few conventional missiles up the Nazis' ass
    Maybe the Tu-95MSM can use Kh-69 tactical cruise missiles. Or a new cruise missile with some 1.000km range as Lancelot suggested.
    You could also add anti-ship missiles (Kh-35U) for sea patrol missions.
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    Post  kvs Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:31 pm

    "Lumbering beasts". LOL. I guess the B-2 is "nimble and quick".

    Apparently the decision is made to build more supersonic Tu-160M jets instead of pushing the PAK-DA stealth bomber program. I suspect
    that the Tu-160M will be modified to give it bomb delivery ability and not just missiles. The Tu-22 already has this functionality and it is
    supersonic as well, but it does not hurt to have the Tu-160M being able to deliver bombs as well. The war in Banderastan demonstrates
    the need for heavy bombers that can do runs over bunker complexes in a degraded missile AD environment. Subsonic aircraft are useless
    for such tasks.

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Dec 31, 2022 6:52 pm

    PAK-DA is to replace 22&95s.
    Not 160s.
    Why shouldn't they have 50+ upper-tier strategic bombers capable of Mach2.0?
    160s are the marvel of human engineering, and the fact that Russkie managed to reestablish it's production so fast after the decision has been made is stunning. 45t load at Mach2.0, imagine ...

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    Post  Hole Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:17 pm

    The Tu-160 was intended to use bombs. The capability wasn´t implemented do to the troubled 90´s.
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    Post  limb Sat Dec 31, 2022 7:37 pm

    Will Tu-160s ever launch onix, zirkons, kh-59s, etc from their rotary launchers? Can the aircraft get external hardpoints?

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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:35 pm

    NO LESS THAN 18 AIRWORTHY Tu-160 aircraft + NEW AIRCRAFT...

    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 27711710
    70-01 18, No. 242 since 1996 The first flight model; first flight in December 1981. It was located on the territory of the FRI until 2014. It was disposed of.

    70-02 Built for strength testing, full-scale glider —

    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 Tupole10
    70-03 ,29 at state tests, The second flight model, the composition of the equipment = serial. Has been at KAPO since 2008.

    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 28091110
    1-01 30 on state tests The first production aircraft, was on the territory of the LII until 2018. Dismantled.


    1-02 56 Second production aircraft, lost in crash, crew ejected successfully

    Tu-160 "White Swan" #2 - Page 7 Tupole11
    2-01 86 at state tests General Yermolov ; The third production aircraft, stored at the LII. Not in flight condition.



    2-02 19 (previously 87) 94113 Valentin Bliznyuk; laid down - 1982
    release - 02/24/1986, first flight - 08/15/1986

    Engels Air Base, M1 modernization in 2006, - 2016-2020 - modernization of M2 - the second aircraft of this level of modernization - Tu-160M;


    2-03 30 Sawn in Priluki, one of the first two Tu-160s delivered to the USSR Air Force.
    3-01 31 Sawn in Priluki, one of the first two Tu-160s delivered to the USSR Air Force.
    3-02 32 Sawn in Priluki —
    3-03 Structural Airframe —
    3-04 33 Sawn in Priluki, 1989-1990 - participated in setting world records No. 33
    3-05 25 Sawn in Priluki

    4-01 Before 1995 No. 63 red, after 342 blue Boris Veremey. laid down - 1986-1987
    release - 03/16/1988
    roll-out - 03/22/1988
    first flight - 1988
    In 2022 upgraded to Tu-160M, will be transferred to the Air Force


    4-02 26 Was in Priluki, since 2000 in the Aviation Museum in Poltava. Total flight time 430 hours.
    4-03 20 Sawn in Priluki
    4-04 21 Sawn in Priluki —

    4-05 14(2) 94103 Igor Sikorsky ; laid down - 1986-1987
    release - 03/16/1988
    roll-out - 03/22/1988
    first flight - 1988
    Was relocated from Pryluky to Engels, former number 22 No. 14, - 02/02/2020 - the first flight as a Tu-160M, the aircraft was piloted by a crew led by test pilot of the Zhukovsky flight test and development base Anri Naskidyants. The flight took place at an altitude of 1.5 thousand meters and lasted 34 minutes

    5-01 23 Sawn in Priluki
    5-02 24 In Priluki, the first showy sawn on November 16, 1998; flight time 466 hours

    5-03 16 94107 Aleksey Plokhov ; laid down - 1986-1989
    release - 06/06/1990
    Was relocated from Priluki to Engels. 2014 - under repair at KAPO, Upgraded

    5-04 17 94110 Valery Chkalov ;laid down - 1986-1989
    release - 06/29/1990
    Named "Priluki". The ancient coat of arms of Pryluky was also applied on board. Transferred from Pryluky to Engels Tupolev Tu-160 "Valery Chkalov" in 2012 , - 2013 - completion of repairs at KAPO

    5-05 15 94108 Vladimir Sudets; laid down - 1986-1989
    release - 31.08.1990
    Overhauled at KAPO in 2013

    6-01 10 94100 Nikolai Kuznetsov;laid down - 1986-1989
    release - 12/29/1990
    Was relocated from Priluki to Engels. Named August 9, 2008; August 2012 - got up for repairs and modernization at KAPO

    6-02 11 94114 Vasily Senko ; laid down - 1986-1989
    release - 12/30/1990
    Was relocated from Pryluky to Engels. Was upgraded in 2016, - 01/28/2016 - handed over to the Air Force after repair with the modernization of the M1 - the sixth modernized Tu-160 (source), the third with the new SINS (?)

    6-03 12 94109 Alexander Novikov ; laid down - 1986-1989
    release - 03/30/1991
    Arrived at KAPO in 2011 to carry out control and recovery maintenance, it is planned to be handed over to the RF Ministry of Defense in 2012; - 12/19/2014 - the aircraft was handed over to the Air Force for KAPO after the modernization of the "first stage" - M1 (source) - the fifth modernized Tu-160, the first modernized with a new SINS (?)

    6-04 14(1) Sawn in Priluki in 1999 with less than 100 flight hours No. 14

    6-05 18 94111 Andrey Tupolev ; laid down - 1987-1990
    release - 09/30/1991
    Fire of the third engine during the flight to the show in Machulishchi in the winter of 1991/1992. Was the last relocated from Pryluky to Engels. On December 19, 2014, it was transferred to the Ministry of Defense after a major overhaul with modernization No. 18

    7-01 01 Mikhail Gromov Post-Soviet production. Crashed in 2003, crew killed.

    7-02 02 94102 Vasily Reshetnikov ; laid down - 1987-1990
    release - 06/30/1992
    first flight - 1992
    Passed control and restoration service at KAPO in 2009. Passed repair and modernization at the Kazan Aviation Plant in 2017-2019, 04/23/2020 - handed over to the Air Force after the modernization to Tu-160M at KAPO.

    7-03 03 94101 Pavel Taran ; laid down - 1987-1990
    release - 09/30/1992
    first flight - 1992
    active since 2016

    7-04 04 94112 Ivan Yarygin ; laid down - 1987-1991
    release - 12/30/1992
    first flight - 1992-1993
    Passed control and recovery service at KAPO in 2010. It was repaired and upgraded at the Kazan Aviation Plant in 2017-2019, 04/23/2020 - handed over to the Air Force after the modernization to Tu-160M at KAPO

    7-05 05 94104 Alexander Golovanov ; laid down - 1987-1991
    release - 07/21/1993
    first flight - 1993-1994
    Post-Soviet production. In 1995 he received the name "Ilya Muromets". Renamed in 1999.

    8-01 ​​06 94105 Ilya Muromets ; laid down before 1992
    release - 06/30/1994
    first flight - 1994
    Passed control and restoration service at KAPO in 2009[28]

    8-02 07 94106 Alexander Molodchiy ; laid down in 1992
    roll-out - 12/23/1997,
    first flight 09/10/1999
    release - 03/21/2000
    First flight in 1999. Transferred to the Air Force in 2000

    8-03 08 94115 Vitaliy Kopylov ;laid down before 1992
    first flight 12/28/2007
    release - 03/06/2008
    Launched at KAPO in 2008 Tupolev Tu-160 "Vitaliy Kopylov".

    8-04[33] ? ? Pyotr Deinekin ; laid down before 1992
    roll-out - 11/16/2017
    first flight - 15-21.01.2018
    Upgraded Tu-160. Roll-out in Kazan at the plant of S.P. Gorbunov on November 16, 2017. The first flight was made in January 2018

    8-05 ; laid down before 1992
    first flight 01/12/2021
    Serial sample of Tu-160M2 (No. 1 of the contract 2020)
    - 19th flying aircraft
    Located in the KAPO workshops at the time of rolling out 08-03, presumably readiness for 2002 is at least 65%, the serial number is probable. Possibly used to upgrade other aircraft (2010 data)
    - April 2020 - the aircraft is being assembled as the second prototype or the first serial Tu-160M2
    - December 2020 - the aircraft is at the KAPO flight test station, preparations are underway for the first flight (source) https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10382819
    - December 2022 - the transfer of the aircraft to the Air Force is planned

    901; Serial sample of Tu-160M2 (No. 2 of contract 2020) - possibly a sample for statistical tests
    Backlog for 2002-2011 - 45% (source https://aeronews.alle.bg/%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F/%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80-%D1%82%D1%83-160/), probably this sample is on the video frames in the assembly shop in April and August 2020.

    902 KAPO Production model Tu-160M2 (No. 3 of the contract 2020)
    Backlog for 2002-2011 - 45% finished (source) https://aeronews.alle.bg/%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F/%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80-%D1%82%D1%83-160/
    903-905 KAPO Production model Tu-160M2 (No. 4-6 of the contract 2020)
    Backlog for 2002-2011 - 25% finished in 2011 (source) https://aeronews.alle.bg/%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F/%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80-%D1%82%D1%83-160/
    1001-1005 KAPO Production model Tu-160M2 (No. 7-10 of the contract 2020)
    Backlog for 2002-2011 - 12% finished in 2011 (source) https://aeronews.alle.bg/%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F/%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80-%D1%82%D1%83-160/


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwirjJH1zaT8AhVF4aQKHR4oAVQQFnoECBUQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitaryrussia.ru%2Fblog%2Ftopic-271.html&usg=AOvVaw18iGDez7B8VwL5fYI-_dht[/b]

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    Post  George1 Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:36 am

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    Post  GarryB Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:46 am

    Compared to the B-52 the Tu-95MS is a teenager. Very Happy
    Keep them!
    As the current events show you can´t have enough missile carriers.

    The Tu-95MS16 with five external weapon pylons under each wing and room for 6 missiles internally means the potential to carry 16 cruise missile type weapons at a time... if those weapons happened to be Zircons then that would become a very long range very potent anti ship platform for the Russian Navy that could be forward deployed around the world to useful locations able to take out any group of ships with one aircraft with one load of missiles...

    You could also use them for MPA and Elint and other roles as well...

    Hovever, the Tu-95's mission is Mutual Assured Destruction, therefore. once you get the Tu-160M for the nuclear triad there is no point in modernizing them if you just want to keep them to shove a few conventional missiles up the Nazis' ass

    They could keep them and just load Kh-55SM missiles on them and use them in WWIII for targets in Europe and perhaps the Middle East and hostile Asian countries like Japan and Australia that won't require longer ranged missiles...

    You retire relatively cheap to operate aircraft like Tu-22M3 and Tu-95 and only keep the elephants.

    The Tu-22M3 doesn't have the range or the payload to do the strategic job... at best it would be used for smacking europe and hostile parts of Asia and the Middle East, but that job could be handed to the Bears after retirement from the strategic role against the US.

    I hope PAK-DA is made with economy in consideration otherwise Russia will basically be out of production ready theater bombers.

    That is exactly the role of the PAK DA... they could have made it a super cruising bomber but making it subsonic and a flying wing should reduce operational costs to make a significant fleet affordable and useful and actually effective... a high flying stealth aircraft can fly much further than a less stealthy plane that has to fly low in turbulence and through ground fire to launch its attacks.

    The Su-34 is not a replacement for the Tu-22M3, regardless of what the RuAF might say, it has half the payload.

    And half the range with half the payload.

    The current conflict has shown Russia needs missile slinging aircraft which can do a lot of cycles on the cheap and the Tu-160 isn't it I think.

    They talk about a Kh-50 that is about 3-4 metres long, subsonic and stealthy and a range of about 1,500km range as a mini cruise missile counterpart that can be carried by tactical aircraft or in large numbers on bigger aircraft as a cheap precision attack weapon.

    There is talk of other weapons too.

    If anything I think the major omission has been a cheap modernized Kh-15 equivalent.

    The replacement for the Kh-15 is supposed to also have a range of 1,500km but also a ramjet propulsion system and speed of mach 6 and small enough to fit internally on the Tu-22M3 and Tu-95, which means it should also fit 12 in each weapon bay on the Tu-160 (24 in total) and presumably also carried in large numbers in the PAK DA.

    The Kh-101 is just too overpowered for this scale of operations, it has a pointlessly huge range, when you just want to hit something inside the IADS bubble from the periphery.

    It was always intended as a strategic weapon, its terminal guidance was fitted to the Kh-55SM resulting in the Kh-555 which is smaller and lighter and only slightly too big to fit 12 of in each weapon bay of the Tu-160...

    Something with a range similar to the Iskander, 500km, would be good enough. The Tu-160 can carry twice the Kh-15 compared with Kh-101.

    They have a range of new air to surface missiles being developed for strategic bombers and their new stealthy fighters too... a new cruise missile with ramjet or scramjet propulsion that fits into the weapon bay of a Su-57 with a reasonable range would be valuable because it would be 5m or less in length which means you could carry 12 in each weapon bay on the Tu-160...

    Apparently the decision is made to build more supersonic Tu-160M jets instead of pushing the PAK-DA stealth bomber program.

    In the longer term I suspect the PAK DA will be very affordable, being subsonic and if they can make Checkmate and Su-57 for the prices they claim I rather think their stealthy flying wing wont be that expensive to buy or to operate either.

    Will Tu-160s ever launch onix, zirkons, kh-59s, etc from their rotary launchers? Can the aircraft get external hardpoints?

    One of the goals of the M upgrades for all the heavy Tupolevs (Bear, Backfire, Blackjack) was unification of weapons as well as radar and avionics and where possible engines. Seems unifying engines for Blackjack and Backfire was too much but the PAK DA seems to have a related engine that is unlikely to have AB but probably has a high bypass turbofan design which should reduce IR signature as well as greatly increase thrust in subsonic flight.

    That video of the first new build shows no bomb sight... I suspect missile only.

    PAKDA will likely be bomber and missile carrier with the Backfire dropping bombs till the PAK DA is ready and in service.

    The Bear hasn't dropped bombs for some time and is missile only too...

    Not a huge shock as standoff missile carrier is safer no matter how fast you can fly... though being a stealthy flying wing I suspect it will be able to drop bombs from altitudes you probably couldn't see it from the ground let alone hear it.

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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:52 pm

    The Kh-101 is just too overpowered for this scale of operations, it has a pointlessly huge range, when you just want to hit something inside the IADS bubble from the periphery.

    I was thinking the same but if you think about it what are the differences btw kh-101 and kh-59mk2/kh69 ?

    Not a lot actually.

    They use similar guidance. Similar materials. Similar warhead. Engine is a bit stronger in kh-101 but it is the same type only maybe bigger.

    Kh-101 is longer but only few meters that consist just in additional fuel which is a matter of 30$ more of kerosene and few meter of additional materials for the body which should be a matter of 3 or 4000$ more or less if it is not some very advanced stuff.

    At the end it's like having a samsung A41 vs a bigger A71 but with the same electronics inside.

    Cost of production should be very similar so is better to maje kh-101 instead of kh-69.

    Tupolev are more expensive to fly than su-34 but it launches a full salvo everytime.
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    Post  limb Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:28 pm

    Its stupid that the Tu-160 cant carry and fire the onix, 2 stage anti-ship kalibr or kinzhal, when even the Su-30MKI can launch the onix,
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    Post  Isos Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:08 pm

    They don't need oniks. It would put them in danger since it has a 600km range. F-18 with aim-120D could intercept them.

    For anti ship role they have tu-22M with kh-32 and now mig-31 with kinzhal.

    Tu-160 primary role is nuclear bombing. Kh-101 allows conventional attacks out of range of the enemy.

    They will never risk their 16 tu-160 for attacks with Oniks.

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    Post  Arrow Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:13 pm

    New strategic hypersonic missiles are under development for the Tu 160.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:37 am

    I was thinking the same but if you think about it what are the differences btw kh-101 and kh-59mk2/kh69 ?

    Not a lot actually.

    To be fair they are all turbojet powered, but Kh-101 has a range of 5,000km and is 7.4 metres long and carried a warhead of about 400kgs, while the other missile family you mention has a range of perhaps 500km at most and half the payload weight or there abouts...

    The Kh-59/69 are tactical weapons and the Kh-101 is strategic... and both are fine for what they are intended for.

    Its stupid that the Tu-160 cant carry and fire the onix, 2 stage anti-ship kalibr or kinzhal, when even the Su-30MKI can launch the onix,

    The Tu-160 should not be wasting time attacking tiny countries like Ukraine, they should be ready 24/7 to launch a strategic missile attack on the entire west... for which the missiles you mention are not useful.

    The Tu-160 will be getting a range of strategic scramjet powered hypersonic missiles with ranges double that of the Kh-101, but equally the Kh-69 should easily fit 12 in each bomb bay of the aircraft.

    They are developing all sorts of new weapons for drones and tactical aircraft as well as strategic aircraft too.

    Eventually when PAK DA is in widespread service the Tu-160 will likely be used for urgent missions or strategic nuclear roles because a stealthy flying wing design will be cheaper to operate and rather more efficient in terms of internal volume for weapons and fuel and will probably take over duties from the Backfire and Blackjack regarding theatre conflicts with not just the capacity to carry heavy bomb loads but also heavy bombs.

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    Post  Isos Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:14 am


    To be fair they are all turbojet powered, but Kh-101 has a range of 5,000km and is 7.4 metres long and carried a warhead of about 400kgs, while the other missile family you mention has a range of perhaps 500km at most and half the payload weight or there abouts...

    Yes but what does kh-101 has more than kh-59mk2 in terms of engineering that would make it more expensive ?

    I'm thinking about production cost and the technology used in the missiles not their capabilities.

    Everything is the same or at the same level. Guidance system, warhead type, materials, engine is the same type but probably a bit bigger but still it is a some 30cm engines not al-41, fuel is kerosene or similar which is cheap.

    At the end kh-101 use a body longer of few meters that conrains only more fuel. It also has ECM but you can always not install them to reduce cost. This 2m of body isn't gonna increase the price by million but few thousand dollars if the materials are some plastic derivates and tens of thousands if it some advanced alloy.

    For me kh-101 is kh-59 with a second stage. It's not that much more expensive than kh-59 but offers a longer range and they have quite a lot bombers to carry them.

    So it's ok from a financial point of view to produce kh-101 instead of kh-59.

    Su-34 should instead be armed with BM like an improved kh-15 that is hyper fast, optically guided kh-59 or kh-35U that can be used against land and sea targets. This way it can complement tupolev and kh-101.
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:09 am

    Yes but what does kh-101 has more than kh-59mk2 in terms of engineering that would make it more expensive ?

    Claims that Russian weapons are expensive generally come from the west.

    I see Patriot missiles are 4 million dollars a shot... how can they charge such prices if it is revealed Russian equivalent missiles are a tiny fraction of that price and are being bought in enormous numbers within a defence budget that is less than 10% of what the US spends each year on so called defence... not even taking into consideration what her HATO allies are spending... you would think between them there would be enough economic power to buy enough artillery shells to last a week...

    But no.

    I'm thinking about production cost and the technology used in the missiles not their capabilities.

    Everything is the same or at the same level. Guidance system, warhead type, materials, engine is the same type but probably a bit bigger but still it is a some 30cm engines not al-41, fuel is kerosene or similar which is cheap.

    Some of the new cheap standoff weapon designs use 3D printed engines and are very cheap...

    At the end kh-101 use a body longer of few meters that conrains only more fuel. It also has ECM but you can always not install them to reduce cost. This 2m of body isn't gonna increase the price by million but few thousand dollars if the materials are some plastic derivates and tens of thousands if it some advanced alloy.

    In Russia I would expect an extra few metres of fibreglass or carbon fibre body would be hundreds of dollars, not tens of thousands...

    The ESM equipment will likely be modular and perhaps might not even be fitted to every missile.

    I would say a few decoy missiles where the warhead is removed leaving 400kgs space for extra fuel and jammers and chaff and other things that can be launched in flight would be a good idea... Older less stealthy designs would be more useful as a decoy to distract from the real attacking weapons...

    Stealth is shaping and materials so it is part of the design so not expensive really unless you are going for 0.000001 m RCS which is just ridiculous.

    For me kh-101 is kh-59 with a second stage. It's not that much more expensive than kh-59 but offers a longer range and they have quite a lot bombers to carry them.

    So it's ok from a financial point of view to produce kh-101 instead of kh-59.

    It is important to keep in mind that the Kh-101 is the strategic range missile, but with a conventional warhead it is still designed for conventional war so this is the sort of situation you would use it... the Kh-102 has the more expensive nuclear warhead and does not need to be made in enormous numbers.

    Su-34 should instead be armed with BM like an improved kh-15 that is hyper fast, optically guided kh-59 or kh-35U that can be used against land and sea targets.

    The Kh-15 is a nice slim weapon... 6 can be carried internally on a Bear or a Backfire, while 24 can be carried on a Blackjack, but it is more likely in a flight of four Blackjacks that two might carry 12 Kh-15s and the rest will be all Kh-102s... 24 rocket powered nuclear missiles to fire at ships in the arctic ocean or SAM sites on land or groups of enemy fighters in the air would give them plenty of protection and also redundancy if one of the aircraft carrying the Kickbacks had problems leaving only 12.

    The replacement is not rocket powered but is scramjet powered with triple the range but likely also a nuclear warhead for the same sort of roles.

    Probably the closest other missile to the Kh-15 actually known to be in service is the 1,000km range mach 5 Kh-32 that approaches its target at 40km altitude and carries a rather large warhead... conventional.

    Now the INF treaty is gone I would say truck launched Kh-101s would be cheaper and easier... using their long range to be fired from all sorts of places.
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    Post  Podlodka77 Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:39 pm

    Two Tu-160s completed a ten-hour flight over the Arctic Ocean
    Two Tu-160s flew over the neutral waters of the Arctic Ocean

    video link https://ria.ru/20230117/tu-1845536422.html

    MOSCOW, January 17 - RIA Novosti. Two Tu-160 supersonic strategic missile carriers of the Russian Aerospace Forces made a scheduled flight over the neutral waters of the Arctic Ocean for more than 10 hours, the Defense Ministry said on Tuesday.
    "Two Tu-160 strategic missile carriers completed a planned flight in airspace over the neutral waters of the Arctic Ocean for more than 10 hours," the military department said.

    The Ministry of Defense emphasized that all flights of aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces are carried out in strict accordance with international rules for the use of airspace.
    Long-range aviation pilots regularly fly over the neutral waters of the Arctic, the North Atlantic Ocean, the Black and Baltic Seas, and the Pacific Ocean.




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