Talking bollocks thread #4

Another major plus of the blended wing design was the aerodynamic lift it created, which were "discovered" with the design work on the Su-27.

The body lift effect using engine pods was originally from the MiG-29 design... the first Su-27s didn't look the way they do now and was modified to look rather more like the MiG-29 after the first prototypes were tested and shown to not be as good as expected.

The MiG-29 shaped Su-27 is the success it is today because of body lift and that stinger tail also improves aerodynamics as does its swan nose which the MiG does not have...

The Tu-160 would make an interesting flying wing if you pushed its nose back into its body and cut the tail off...

GarryB wrote:
The body lift effect using engine pods was originally from the MiG-29 design... the first Su-27s didn't look the way they do now and was modified to look rather more like the MiG-29 after the first prototypes were tested and shown to not be as good as expected.

The MiG-29 shaped Su-27 is the success it is today because of body lift and that stinger tail also improves aerodynamics as does its swan nose which the MiG does not have...

I don't know about your sources but unfortunately the info above is not correct at all. The opposite is actually true!

The first drawing of the Su-27 came about in 1970 and was mostly made by Vladimir Antonov - the main Sukhoi designer at the time.
Three OKB's took part in the competition to design a 4th gen fighter. Yakolev presented a Yak-45, Mikoyan the Mig-29 and Sukhoi the Su-27.
Below you can see the preliminary drawings and how they were presented initially. Here you can clearly see the Su-27's layout was far more advanced than the other two competitors. You can also see that the Mig design had the intakes on the side and looked somewhat similar to the Anglo/French Jaguar! Yak actually withdrew its design at the first meeting and Mig went back for a redesign and came back with a new model at the next meeting which closely resembled the Sukhoi layout.

All screenshots are from the Wings of Russia series >>



This is Mig's second attempt after they saw the Sukhoi design in model form >>



Sukhoi's Vladimir Antonov's first drawing of the Su-27 made in 1970 (sorry bad quality) >>>

I don't know about your sources but unfortunately the info above is not correct at all. The opposite is actually true!

The drawings are cute but both aircraft first flew in 1977 and the Su-27 was radically different from the current model and went through some serious changes in shape to go from the T-10 to the T-10S...

If you look at the actual prototypes it was the Sukhoi plane that was not right and needed a redesign to get it fit for purpose...

GarryB wrote:
The drawings are cute but both aircraft first flew in 1977 and the Su-27 was radically different from the current model and went through some serious changes in shape to go from the T-10 to the T-10S...

Now I know you've had some serious trouble in the past identifying Soviet aircraft but does this preliminary drawing of the Mig-29 look anything like the Mig-29 we know today?


Compared to say this!


But I guess they probably look the same to you

GarryB wrote:If you look at the actual prototypes it was the Sukhoi plane that was not right and needed a redesign to get it fit for purpose...

Not really. There were two major issues with the T-10 prototype. The first problem was that the electronics was too heavy for the aircraft. They had to come up with lighter and better designed electronics to improve the aircraft's weight issue. This was actually predicted by Sukhoi himself - he knew it beforehand. Well the Soviets did manage to rectify that issue fairly quickly in the end judging by the Su-27's aerial displays in the West!

The second issue was that the prototype experienced heavy vibration at angles of attack greater than 10 degrees - but other than that the first flight went great. The famous test pilot Vladimir Ilyushin, who made the first test flight, described the aircraft as the first aircraft he knew that was smarter than him. The issue with the vibration dictated the redesign (mainly the wing) - and NOT the Mig-29!  

Now what they've learned from the Su-27's wind tunnel models, before any prototypes were produced (when the Mig-29's own wind tunnel models still looked like the drawing above! ) - was the lift effect of the blended wing design. The same blended wing concept that was implemented on the tu-160.


That concept was also implemented on the Mig-29 but only after they saw the Su-27 design. It has absolutely nothing to do with engine pods but hey GarryB.net knows better than the Soviet designers themselves!

GarryB wrote:The body lift effect using engine pods was originally from the MiG-29 design

 

Now I know you've had some serious trouble in the past identifying Soviet aircraft but does this preliminary drawing of the Mig-29 look anything like the Mig-29 we know today?

<snip>

But I guess they probably look the same to you

If you look at the rules of this forum, one of them is not to disrespect the mods or admin... now I can accept some banter, and I don't like to enforce such rules... but you keep with the personal jabs and one time I might be in a mood to act.

Don't comment on it... because you don't know what mood I am in now... just blink twice and I will know you understand.

That drawing means nothing... they probably did 20 different drawings in different configurations... the facts of the matter are that they all take their designs and models to the same wind tunnel facilities and can watch each other testing there and the org that runs the wind tunnels doesn't care which model is which but they do want everyone to be as good as they can possibly be.

The story I heard was that an engineer went from MiG to Sukhoi... head hunted you might say and after he arrived the T-10 became the T-10M... and which looks more like the Su-27 we see today... the T-10 or the T-10M?

More importantly which early MiG-29 prototype does not look like a current MiG-29?

Only one of them had a radical shape change when they were building actual aircraft and that was the Sukhoi.

That concept was also implemented on the Mig-29 but only after they saw the Su-27 design. It has absolutely nothing to do with engine pods but hey GarryB.net knows better than the Soviet designers themselves!

So what you are saying is that they managed to competely redesign the MiG and still get it into the air the same year the Su-27 first flew, and their flying model looked more like the T-10M than the T-10 did... freaken amazing... but if a genius and expert like you says so...

Moving to TB thread.

Yes please ---> move to TB thread. It is quite embarrassing to see this kind of banter displayed on an international forum.

GarryB wrote:If you look at the rules of this forum, one of them is not to disrespect the mods or admin... now I can accept some banter, and I don't like to enforce such rules... but you keep with the personal jabs and one time I might be in a mood to act.

Don't comment on it... because you don't know what mood I am in now... just blink twice and I will know you understand.

I am absolutely not disrespecting you as a a mod or admin - but if you are going to comment on this forum (like any other ordinary member) you should at least make an effort to stick to facts as this information is not only of historical importance, but is quite embarrassing to see a person of your standing making an ass of himself, and then have to shove it all under the carpet to the Talking Bollocks Thread.

PS - All the info I gave comes directly from the "Wings of Russia" series as I've already mentioned above.

Don't comment on it... because you don't know what mood I am in now... just blink twice and I will know you understand.

Not following instructions from a mod or admin... two week break for you.

Podlodka77 wrote: I work in one of the "force" state structures and I'm not a worm like you.
Politics is politics, people from state structures die because of politics (army, police, intelligence) but either you are a patriot or you are a **** - you die for belonging and above all for your family. I see that my compatriots on the forum are mostly pussies and conceited spineless people who pretend to be tough guys. You see, I can feel their "blood" when they write and I know they are pussies. Anyone who doubts is weak or spineless.

I mean, regardless of how unnerving it is that we have such idiots in the "force" state structures, as you put it, it doesn't befuddle me in the least. 
Security structures in Serbia are in a sad state for a while now, full of yes-man and stupid idiots. Police and state security corrupt and suck on Vucic's dick and Army led by that idiot Vulin is also in a sad state. Army can't even man properly its units to appropriate level, as everyone normal and thinking left already. Only such characters as you are left. And your place is, obviously, in mental institution as you should not to be allowed to carry a weapon.
State of affairs in Serbia can be best described by what Njegos said: Moje pleme snom mrtvijem spava...

caveat emptor wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote: I work in one of the "force" state structures and I'm not a worm like you.
Politics is politics, people from state structures die because of politics (army, police, intelligence) but either you are a patriot or you are a **** - you die for belonging and above all for your family. I see that my compatriots on the forum are mostly pussies and conceited spineless people who pretend to be tough guys. You see, I can feel their "blood" when they write and I know they are pussies. Anyone who doubts is weak or spineless.

I mean, regardless of how unnerving it is that we have such idiots in the "force" state structures, as you put it, it doesn't befuddle me in the least. 
Security structures in Serbia are in a sad state for a while now, full of yes-man and stupid idiots. Police and state security corrupt and suck on Vucic's dick and Army led by that idiot Vulin is also in a sad state. Army can't even man properly its units to appropriate level, as everyone normal and thinking left already. Only such characters as you are left. And your place is, obviously, in mental institution as you should not to be allowed to carry a weapon.
State of affairs in Serbia can be best described by what Njegos said: Moje pleme snom mrtvijem spava...

Unless that location you have is sarcasm you really should keep it quiet unless you want to end up looking just as dumb as the clown you are replying to

I spent almost 30 years of my life watching Serbia turn tail and run every time some Albanian makes some noise

Recently for the first time in my life I actually saw Albanians backing off when we imply even possiblity of a noise, this has never happened before, ever

Biggest problem here these days are drug running Montenegro inbred scum who work for Kosovo Albanian drug cartels and who should all be sterilized and deported

I can at least respect Albanians, they play for their team

PapaDragon wrote:
Unless that location you have is sarcasm you really should keep it quiet unless you want to end up looking just as dumb as the clown you are replying to

I spent almost 30 years of my life watching Serbia turn tail and run every time some Albanian makes some noise

Recently for the first time in my life I actually saw Albanians backing off when we imply even possiblity of a noise, this has never happened before, ever

Biggest problem here these days are drug running Montenegro inbred scum who work for Kosovo Albanian drug cartels and who should all be sterilized and deported

I can at least respect Albanians, they play for their team

Location is not sarcasm. I've been spending good part of my time in US for some time now. 
 If you think that Serbian army maneuvers are anything more than a show for domestic voters, i have a bridge to sell you.
You can't make pie from shit, as the saying goes, and that is exactly what Serbian government and franken administrative apparatus become now. If you think that general Mojsilović is a man that will go against NATO, you didn't learn anything from last 30 years.  
We agree about Albanians. They are working for their interests and who can blame them for that.
Zvonko Veselinovic is not Montenegrian btw. He is from Mitrovica. Go and check his hotel in Kopaonik. And people he meets there.

ALAMO wrote:
Hm.
Not that I would contest the Serbian issues while you have your Serbian little hell obviously here ...
And the closest I have ever been to Serbia was enjoying some wine in Segedyn ...
But isn't the "sucking president's dick" the kind of usual thing for most of the police in most of the common political systems?

Not in the way it is being used in Serbia, it is not.

caveat emptor wrote:Location is not sarcasm. I've been spending good part of my time in US for some time now...

Well in that case do shut the f*ck up about things you know nothing about

You don't see me dropping uninformed opinions about your country and telling you how it should be run?

But I appreciate how well you got assimilated in your new nation by making it your business to stick your ignorant ass in other people's business

ALAMO wrote:

caveat emptor wrote: Police and state security corrupt and suck on Vucic's dick

Hm.
Not that I would contest the Serbian issues while you have your Serbian little hell obviously here ...
And the closest I have ever been to Serbia was enjoying some wine in Segedyn ...
But isn't the "sucking president's dick" the kind of usual thing for most of the police in most of the common political systems?

He is not even a Serb, save your calories

PapaDragon wrote:
He is not even a Serb, save your calories

This is what i am talking about. 
Person like you being a teacher shows exactly what is wrong with a country ( if you are really one).
To translate to Serbian, because maybe you misunderstood me:
 Пита се од гована не прави. У твом случају, то  јасно показује да тако дубоко поремећен човек не би требао да уопште буде око деце, а још мање да се бави њиховим образовањем. 
Enjoy your Sunday!

caveat emptor wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
He is not even a Serb, save your calories

This is what i am talking about. 
Perdon like you being a teacher shows exactly what is wrong with a country ( if you are really one).
To translate to Serbian, because maybe you misunderstood me:
 Пита се од гована не прави. У твом случају, то  јасно показује да тако дубоко поремећен човек не би требао да уопште буде око деце, а још мање да се бави њиховим образовањем. 
Enjoy your Sunday!

Did you have your daddy translate that? He ran away 30 years ago like a little pussy when he noticed people with guns but he should still remember the lingo

Go have some Chick-fil-A with splash of Mountain Dew and leave East Europe to East Europeans

I would also tell you to watch how you use pronouns but it would be redundant because you already aced that part, right? Good little second generation bitch boy

PapaDragon wrote:
Did you have your daddy translate that? He ran away 30 years ago like a little pussy when he noticed people with guns but he should still remember the lingo

Go have some Chick-fil-A with splash of Mountain Dew and leave East Europe to East Europeans

I would also tell you to watch how you use pronouns but it would be redundant because you already aced that part, right? Good little second generation bitch boy

It seems like i hit some buttons.
Bato, nije to nista, veruj mi. Skakaces do plafona kad ti Vucic i njegova bratija uvale karinu i onako elegantno predaju Kosovo. Bice isto ko i za vreme Milosevica: Pobedili smo, ali moramo da se povučemo s Kosova. Navuci ces se na hors koji ce da ti prodaje bata Zvonko. Samo uzivaj. 
@Garry feel free to move this Serbian bickering to appropriate thread.

caveat emptor wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote: I work in one of the "force" state structures and I'm not a worm like you.
Politics is politics, people from state structures die because of politics (army, police, intelligence) but either you are a patriot or you are a **** - you die for belonging and above all for your family. I see that my compatriots on the forum are mostly pussies and conceited spineless people who pretend to be tough guys. You see, I can feel their "blood" when they write and I know they are pussies. Anyone who doubts is weak or spineless.

I mean, regardless of how unnerving it is that we have such idiots in the "force" state structures, as you put it, it doesn't befuddle me in the least. 
Security structures in Serbia are in a sad state for a while now, full of yes-man and stupid idiots. Police and state security corrupt and suck on Vucic's dick and Army led by that idiot Vulin is also in a sad state. Army can't even man properly its units to appropriate level, as everyone normal and thinking left already. Only such characters as you are left. And your place is, obviously, in mental institution as you should not to be allowed to carry a weapon.
State of affairs in Serbia can be best described by what Njegos said: Moje pleme snom mrtvijem spava...

Колико си глуп и неотесан, процени сам...
Нити сам те прозвао, јавио си се први. Избрисао сам оригинални коментар да нас ови стрејнџери не би додатно зајебавали..
Блокиран си и немој да ми се обраћаш јер ПОНАВЉАМ да се ја нисам директно обратио теби. И мани се "менталних" институција, на које позиваш пола чланова, па самим тим и мене, јер можда сам јеси за једну такву.

ALAMO wrote:


There is nothing more relaxing to watch than a woman parking, kids playing, and Serbs "discussing" * ...

* can be applied to "Poles" either

And the worst thing is that I didn't even write him a message.
He just complains to Garry and wants Garry to block anyone he doesn't like, like Garry is his dad.
We also found out that he is in the USA where he learned the famous American saying "I am an American" and here he treats everyone as if they are second class forum members.

ALAMO wrote:
The only point that stands is that you give a shit what the others have to say  - so showing disrespect
How do you expect anyone damn care about your "points"?

I have read what both wrote in serbian and it sounded half-intelligent and due to lack of my knowledge of many  words, however my mistake was to translate it...my IQ dropped reading that level of intellectual transfer of ideas about each other and the european-esque interest to someones sexual preferences.

Edit:

Podlodka wrote:He just complains to Garry and wants Garry to block anyone he doesn't like, like Garry is his dad.

Ohh please stop this nonsense. He did not say anything like that. Don't you have any honor not to lie?

Werewolf wrote:

ALAMO wrote:
The only point that stands is that you give a shit what the others have to say  - so showing disrespect
How do you expect anyone damn care about your "points"?

I have read what both wrote in serbian and it sounded half-intelligent and due to lack of my knowledge of many  words, however my mistake was to translate it...my IQ dropped reading that level of intellectual transfer of ideas about each other and the european-esque interest to someones sexual preferences.

Edit:

Podlodka wrote:He just complains to Garry and wants Garry to block anyone he doesn't like, like Garry is his dad.

Ohh please stop this nonsense. He did not say anything like that. Don't you have any honor not to lie?

You are right, it does not serve our honor, but the goal was to insult each other.

Podlodka77 wrote:You are right, it does not serve our honor, but the goal was to insult each other.

Can you two twats go to the bollocks talk thread to figure out which one of you loves Cevapcici more or at least pay some tribute to your slavic culture and become more creative with your insults, so that us readers at least can enjoy this пиздёж.